Thanks all for the responses. Some I agree with, some I don't, but I guess we all see things from our own perspective.
My god. These man-babies. I have no empathy whatsoever.
Exactly! Why am I the one that has to take his feelings into consideration when he destroyed everything just to make his dick happy?
While the betrayer doesn't need to walk on egg shells, they need to ever remain cognitive of the betrayed's feelings. Those remarks were hurtful and insensitive. It tells me he's fully moved on and considers R fully accomplished. I wouldn't have any empathy either.
Indeed in a lot of ways he is extremely eager to move on and put this in the past. He continues to tell me that he understands that for me that is not the case. However, he forgets that there are still things he needs to work on and things are NEVER going to go back to normal, how can they? I seem to have to push back on this narrative quite a bit.
IDK, I find it difficult to deal with this kind of thing because for almost 30 years I got used to DARVO and that things are usually "my fault", "I just take things too personally", "that's not what he said", "or meant", "I perceived it wrong". You get the picture. So, is that codependent?
Yes. Because you stayed with him even though he treated you this way. But the label codependent is neither here nor there--why did you stay with such a selfish, condescending person?
Here's the thing though. I didn't realize this was an abusive pattern. It didn't start off this bad, it was done by degrees until it felt normal. I stayed because I didn't realize I was being treated badly in those instances. Sure, I felt like I had real and valid concerns, but the gaslighting made me internalize them. Look at myself to see if maybe I was wrong. I second guessed myself and gave him the benefit of the doubt. I didn't even know what DARVO was until over a year after Dday. And when I realized that that was what had been going on in my M it floored me! He still didn't see it as abusive himself and IDK, maybe he DARVO'd without realizing what he was doing. Merely protecting himself. But who knows. He has acknowledged that what he did was wrong and that it created the exact situation he was most upset about (dead bedroom).
I also made excuses for his selfishness because for the most part, he took care of me and our kids. He wasn't one of those men who went out and got drunk or hung out with his friends above his family. We came first most of the time. But, looking back on it now, I realize that even that was selfishness on his part. We did what he wanted most of the time. He was the leader and we followed. The excuse I made was that he had little to nothing growing up. His father was an alcoholic, and aggressive one and hurt his mother on occasion. So, when he bought himself "toys" he wanted, even if they were too expensive for us to afford, I chalked it up to him treating himself the way he wished he had been treated as a child. He would also buy things for our kids, again, even if we couldn't really afford it. I took care of the finances and had to get creative!
These are now issues that are front and center and I no longer allow them to just happen. I will no longer live in the kind of M that we had before. Yes, he keeps trying to get back there because it's comfortable for him there. It is no longer comfortable for him. I suppose that is one reason I still have some hope. The old him would have quit. He would have been incapable of looking inward at all to see, understand, and admit that he was at fault for anything.
I do not understand the responses you got saying you didn't handle it well. You didn't stew in silence or sit sulking. It wasn't sideways.
I don't know if you are co-dependent. It doesn't matter to me. You immediately brought the comment to his attention as being inappropriate. It wasn't an off-hand remark that sort of construed anything. He specifically brought "she" into the comment.
And if you were snarky - so what. He's insensitive. If he had empathy for you and the harm he has caused you and your marriage he would understand those things that might trigger you. He, instead, decided to punish you for your insensitive, snaky comment.
In this little thread I don't see how he is remorseful or in reconciliation.
Thank you for saying I handled it well. I certainly handled it better than I would have in the past. I might have just let it go and yes, stewed in silence. Not sure about the co-dependency either, but maybe I should look into it. Either way, at least I'm moving forward instead of backwards.
Is he remorseful? I think so. but I also think that he is still selfish and often thinks of himself first. This is what he's fighting against, and I can at least give him credit for seeing it and trying to get better. Will it be enough? I can't say for sure yet.
I think you should talk to him and tell him that jokes like that trigger you, but at the same time realize this might be a sign of growth.
I'm glad you were able to see your joke as a positive, and so was your wife. However, I saw this as insensitive. We are not, and he is certainly not, far enough along in healing to be able to make jokes like these. Growth? No, he just didn't think when he said what he said. Again, I know he didn't mean anything by it, we've all heard this "that's what she said" joke a million times. I don't expect him to be perfect, but when I call it out, the least I expect is an apology for the trigger (meant or not).
My sister sent me a quote today "manipulation is when they blame you for your reaction to their disrespect". That really hits home for me even outside of my relationship. The making you apologize before he would is a form of manipulation, in my opinion. Somebody who was truly remorseful would have just apologized for being insensitive.
I agree. Like I said, he still thinks about himself first when things like this happen. It takes a bit before he can see things from my perspective. And sometimes I have to spell it out line by line. So again, is that me leading him? Does that mean he isn't doing the work unless I force him to? Is that enough? IDK. I suppose there might come a time when I've had enough of it all. There was another incident that happened but I'm too tired to write it out. Maybe I'm the stupid one for still trying. I feel shattered and I know I can't take much more.