Newest Member: Butterfly19

Just Found Out :
4 year affair, it hurts so much


SnowToArmPits ( member #50943) posted at 11:38 PM on Monday, July 5th, 2021

Hey OP, sorry this has landed on you.

The AP especially would have lost most of his career prospects.

You know maybe we're a bunch of heartless, cynical bastards here on Surviving Infidelity... but I bet most of us would say this is great, out the fucker and ruin his career prospects.

posts: 358   ·   registered: Dec. 25th, 2015   ·   location: Canada
id 8672604

redwing6 ( member #72593) posted at 2:37 AM on Tuesday, July 6th, 2021


2015 - we started the relationship after her sort of pursuing me more than I pursuing her

2016 - when he contacted her again, when she was depressed

2018 - she gives in to sex with AP

2019 - we got married and got pregnant shortly after. We decided to save ourselves and didnt have sex until after the wedding

2020 - he dumped her

2021 January - she (sort of) dumped him back

2021 June - she confesses the affair

Gently, I believe that you need to have your child tested for DNA. There is a strong possibility that he is not your biological child. Especially if she was having regular sex with the AP...while you were "waiting until after marriage".

BH 58,
WW #2 D'd after 6month EA who scammed her out of our life savings
WW #1 51 since remaired twice continues to cheat even today
WW #2 Refuses to admit she wrecked our marriage
DD adult 32
DSD adult 33
DSS adult 30

posts: 251   ·   registered: Jan. 17th, 2020   ·   location: Savannah, GA
id 8672652

beb252 ( member #78948) posted at 4:29 AM on Tuesday, July 6th, 2021

It turns out she was having regular sex with AP while you're waiting up after your marriage? I agree that you should have your child DNA tested.

It hurts but she doesn't love you. She married you because you are her safe bet. She can't marry AP because he's already taken. She needs to take the next best thing because her calendar is closing up on her. You are the next choice.

If she really loved you then you could have at least a similar attention with AP but it turns out she was enjoying herself with AP all along while waiting up to be married before she gave herself to you. That's kind of weird thing to do because she's not that demure at all. She was having all the sex she needs while you're on the sidelines. Maybe she had more sex with AP than with you all throughout your marriage.

I would leave if I were you. She's not in love you, that's the truth. You are her safe place to be but she doesn't love you.

All the best!

[This message edited by beb252 at 4:34 AM, Tuesday, July 6th]

posts: 387   ·   registered: Jun. 14th, 2021
id 8672662

ramius ( member #44750) posted at 10:25 PM on Tuesday, July 6th, 2021

Don't fall for the depression on her part and the inclination to comfort her. She doesn't deserve it.


She is playing the pity card. If it doesn’t work you can expect different cards to come out of the deck. The sex card, the anger card, etc. etc.

How many scars have you rationalized because you loved the person who was holding the knife?

Their actions reveal their intentions. Their words conceal them.

posts: 1608   ·   registered: Sep. 3rd, 2014
id 8672908

 Confusedmd (original poster new member #78802) posted at 12:04 PM on Wednesday, July 7th, 2021

A short update: We agreed to do the STD tests next week. Nothing much has changed except our body weight, we are both unable to eat, or sleep much.

Can anyone give me a list of WWs in here who have been genuinely remorseful? Maybe I can compare my wife's actions to theirs.

posts: 27   ·   registered: May. 16th, 2021
id 8673049

DBFool2019 ( member #72288) posted at 2:12 PM on Wednesday, July 7th, 2021

Please reread your own words OP. Why are you doing this to yourself?

I'm 30 years old, married to my wife (32) for almost 2 years. About 2 months ago, my wife told me that she got a friend request from her ex from 9 years ago. He was her first love, first sex, first everything, but due to him serially cheating, she broke up with him, but not without so much heart ache on her part. We met about a year or two later, started a relationship in 2015, and married on June 2019. We have a son born last June 2020.

Anyway, the last time that they had communication was in 2013, until she apparently had received a friend request last Feb or March from him. She knows that I have feelings of jealousy about him, and it has been a sort of unwritten rule that she would never contact him again, and she would tell me if he did contact her (It's an offshoot of our agreement of no secrets, nothing hidden in our marriage esp with regards to things that might threaten our marriage.) She told me about the friend request about 2-4 weeks after (when, per our agreement, it should have been disclosed immediately). She said she declined the friend request. I was a bit worried but let it pass since it was just something minor.

Everything else has been unsuspicious until 1 week ago, when I logged into her messenger account (we both have each others' PW on everything, and regularly check the others' SM accounts. I rarely do this, but out of a hunch, I went to her archived messages, and there was a missed call from her ex at 1am the previous night while I was at work. It wasn't answered, but why would she hide it from me?

I tried to remain calm and waited for her to eventually tell me, but she didnt. On the 3rd day, I couldn't hold it any longer so I confronted her about it. We had a very bad fight (mostly because of me), and she said she saw the missed call but has no idea how it was transferred to the archived messages. We fought the entire day, I was very angry why she did not tell me about it but instead hid it from me, she denied any wrongdoing.

I made her ask him why he called, but he replied that he "wrong pressed." I called bullshit. How can you wrongly press "call" on a messenger account that you haven't been in contact with since 2012?

About 2 days ago, he again called her, and when she didnt answer, he proceeded to ask her why she isn't answering. Since our last fight, Ive been kind and calm, but I don't know why he has the balls to suddenly keep calling my wife out of the blue, and more than once at that.

Am I just being overly obsessive and harsh about it? Or should I investigate further?

[This message edited by DBFool2019 at 8:12 AM, July 7th (Wednesday)]

posts: 124   ·   registered: Dec. 13th, 2019
id 8673072

Stevesn ( member #58312) posted at 2:32 PM on Wednesday, July 7th, 2021

Hi Doc

I thought this list of actions by a remorseful wayward spouse would be helpful to you. Take what applies to your situation. Some you may already have done.

Does she still go visit her hometown every two weeks? If so how does she prove No Contact with the AP? Sorry if this was asked and answered already.

Here ya go…. I wish you well.

Conditions to consider Reconciliation

1) NC LETTER: Together we write a No Contact letter that we send to your boyfriend. No signs of affection toward him will be relayed at all. It will Be matter of fact and remove him from your life forever.

2) NO CONTACT. Meaning if you work with him you quit your job and find another so you can never see him or run into him again. Real ghosting. Blocking him from everything. If He tries to contact you then you do not respond and you tell me. If he persists our lawyer will send him a cease and desist.

3) TIMELINE: You write out a full timeline of your Affair. Every little detail. Each day you communicated, what was said, even if you were inappropriate and raunchy. The days you were alone together, the physically touching. What you touched, what he touched, how long, and what you said to each other. All sex acts are described. Every single thing. I need to know the truth before I can try and reconcile from it. We will sit together and review it and you’ll openly answer questions about it. You know the truth, I need to know it as well as you do if we are going to have a chance to save this marriage.

4) APOLOGY: You'll write me a letter of apology explaining why you think you did what you did and what it would mean to you to have me stay and work on the marriage. It should include how you think you made me feel during all this time.

5) TIMELINE: Once we have reviewed the timeline and letter you will agree to a polygraph to confirm you have told me the truth.

6) IC: We will both do Individual Counseling. You to figure out why you were willing and able to go beyond our marriage vows. And me to work thru the pain you have caused me.

7) MC: At a later point we will start Marriage Counseling to work on what was missing from the Marriage. But only after we both work on ourselves first. I decide when this starts

8) EXPOSURE:. The true nature of the affair will be exposed to both our families and appropriate close friends. They need to be able to help us make it thru this Reconciliation. Doing this alone with just the two of us and no one else knowing is doomed for failure. If you are truly Remorseful you will be the one to admit what you have done. I will be there to let them know that even though they are probably mad at you for what you have done but I ask that they support you as a couple while you are trying to work through this painful time in your marriage

9)INFORMING OTHER SPOUSE: If your boyfriend has a wife or Girlfriend you will help me contact this spouse. You will not warn him about this as that would be breaking No Contact and if you do we are through.

10) INTIMACY: Intimacy will be on my terms. Whatever I need to heal in whatever fashion you deem necessary. You cannot be forced to do anything you don’t want to, however, I have the right to decide if denying me the intimacy I need is a deal breaker for me.

11) POSTNUP: We will look into implementing a postnup that ensures my financial security and terms of parenting if you ever cheat again.

12) TRANSPARENCY: You will provide open access to all your technology from now on. On demand. No time to delete stuff. I will agree to do the same. If you dont then I assume you are obviously more interested in having secrets than continuing your Marriage. I may also ask for another phone set up as yours so I can actively monitor your activity

13) OUTSIDE RELATIONSHIPS: No more going out without each other unless otherwise approved. Confirming your whereabouts and who you are with will be required as needed.

14) INTERACTION: No more meeting alone with a man. No lunches, dinners, drinks whatever. Social Happy Hours (outside of actual work functions) are to be attended together or not attended at all.

15) READING: We both will do reading on infidelity and we will use them to discuss our marriage. This includes materials such as "Not just friends" and "how to help your spouse heal from your affair”

16) STD: STD testing for both of us with Visual proof of the results is required. And we will DNA test the kids and you will pay for it by selling something of value to only you or you working additionally to defray the cost.

17) FUTURE INFIDELITY: No new affairs. If so D papers will be served immediately. No lies about relationships with others any more. If so we are done.

18) COMMUNICATION: Any questions about the affair are to be answered honestly for the rest of our lives together.

19) CONFIDANTS: No conversations about our marriage or any other marriage with another man/woman unless we discuss it first and I confirm that it’s ok to talk to that specific person about it.

20) OUR HOME: No one comes in to our home without both us knowing.

21) COMMUNICATION- No secrets, no matter how hard it will be to hear. Discuss all attractions. Discuss all third party attention. Discuss all feelings good and bad. Be honest with yourself and aware of your feelings, then communicate that to your spouse.

22) CHARACTER: We don't do or say anything in absence of one another that we wouldn't do in the others presence.

23) AFFECTION: we work to show each other moments of tenderness, acts of passion, the creation of new memories, all thru time spent together.

24) ENEMIES: You drop any friends or family members that encouraged or helped you hide the affair. Complete NC with them.

25) OWNING THE A: Ownership of your actions during your affair and no more blameshifting or excuses for your actions.

26)ACTIVELY ENGAGING I need to be treated better than your boyfriend. Whatever you did for him you will have to go further for me. We together will discuss what that means.

27) FINANCIALS: If there were major expenses incurred by you during the A and spent on the AP then you as the Wayward Spouse must find a way to pay back the Marriage for those expenses either by taking on another job or by selling something of value only to you. This will show me that you are ALL IN.

28) EXPOSURE OF GIFTS: any gifts given by the AP are to be destroyed or sold with the funds used for charity or other purpose not benefiting the WS

29) REMOVING MEMORIES: any clothes worn during the affair or household items used (eg couches, beds) should be sold and replaced only by the WS raising the funds on their own (eg second job or selling something of value only to them)

30) SYMBOLS: You ask your betrayed spouse if they want you to continue to wear your wedding ring. It’s up to them. If they feel your actions have ended the M and therefore don’t deserve to wear it until you’ve helped them heal and made them feel safe in the relationship again then you take it off. Perhaps wear a ring that is different than a wedding ring in its place if that’s ok with your betrayed spouse. Either give the wedding ring to them or store it safely until someday they feel comfortable enough for you to wear it again. When that day comes they may want new rings as the old one represents a M that no longer exists. You should discuss this with them when the time comes.

fBBF. Just before proposing, broke it off after her 2nd confirmed PA in 2 yrs. 9 mo later I met the wonderful woman I have spent the next 30 years with.

posts: 3199   ·   registered: Apr. 17th, 2017
id 8673076

SlapNutsABingo ( member #71353) posted at 7:23 PM on Wednesday, July 7th, 2021


This was a 4 year long affair, that you know of. There are tons of ways to communicate electronically that aren't traceable or recoverable. With and old flame that dumped her. It started up again before you were married and throughout your marriage. Everyday the amount of conscious decisions and lies that needed to be made were in the hundreds.

You simply do not love someone you do that too. Not the way you and the rest of us need love. You never had a marriage, period. Not the way you and the rest of us need as a marriage.

You have a year old child that will never have a recollection of his parents not being together. Coparenting is ideal in this case. What you do have is a year old child that will be adversely affected by the same sex parent living in agony as he develops. You right now are the primary developmental role model for that child. As the years go on, he will mirror you and your brokenness as you stay with your abuser.

Read what you originally are looking for every possible way to create a reality that this is something you will be able to live with. That will fail. It goes against your core beliefs. Read The Body Keeps The Score and Cheating In A Nutshell for more clarification.

I reiterate, this was a 4 year or longer affaire with an intense old flame that left her originally.

Do you have NetFlix? If not get it and watch Sex/Life

[This message edited by SlapNutsABingo at 1:30 PM, July 7th (Wednesday)]

posts: 383   ·   registered: Aug. 21st, 2019   ·   location: WI
id 8673166

nekonamida ( member #42956) posted at 7:25 PM on Wednesday, July 7th, 2021

Check out foreverlabeled who has a thread up about the work she has done on the front page of the Wayward forum. Also look at posts by Mrs Walloped who hasn't posted in a while. Hikingout and Owningitnow are also good posters but you will mainly see them posting in all of the forums. You can also read threads in the Wayward forum and pay close attention to the advice given to new waywards about what they should be doing. Waywards have a finely tuned six sense for bullshit and will call out remorselessness when they see it.

posts: 5011   ·   registered: Mar. 31st, 2014   ·   location: United States
id 8673168

beb252 ( member #78948) posted at 10:16 PM on Wednesday, July 7th, 2021

Hi Doc,

I've been following your thread since you started it and based on my observation, you are the third wheel on this relationship. Your WW and AP were in a 'real relationship' before you even came to the picture. You never had full access to your wife's body before you got married while she's enjoying everything with AP - I'm not sure if AP is a proper term for him because they were never in an affair. They were in a 'relationship'.

It just so happened that AP was no longer available so your WW had to pick the second best choice from the list, which is you. Whether you like it or not, you were and still is the side piece. The real love of her life is AP. She was in a relationship with AP - it was never an affair, it was a relationship. It's a tough pill to swallow but it's the reality.

She picked you because on paper, you are the perfect couple. Both doctors, high social standing, financial stability and all stuff that make her look good in front of people - thus the 'perfect couple'. But in reality, she was never yours. Her emotional attachment and also physical attachment was always with AP. She was never yours. She's always AP's whether you accept it or not. You are always her second best choice.

There was no affair fog because they were in the real relationship. She was always, always in love with him. The only thing that separates you from being the third wheel is she married you. But still, you are the third wheel even after marriage.

Think about it.

posts: 387   ·   registered: Jun. 14th, 2021
id 8673244

TheEnd ( member #72213) posted at 10:16 PM on Wednesday, July 7th, 2021

It's normal for a BS to flail around trying to figure this all out in a hot minute. Mostly, we BSs don't want this to be our reality. We want relief from the pain and boy wouldn't an immediately remorseful spouse who instantly becomes a safe partner lift some of the pain?

Not likely to happen.

If it helps, maybe think of it this way: your marriage is dead. You are still legally married but what you thought you had or hoped you had is a slaughtered carcass. Gone.

You didn't want this so you are shocked and grieving. The shock makes you try to "understand" it and look for an escape from the pain.

But you must grieve this. That is your only job right now. Grieve the loss of what you thought you had. In grieving you must take care of YOU. Not her, you. Eat, drink, meditate, see a counselor, exercise, sleep, cry, rage, journal, whatever helps. Grieve this. If you don't, if you don't come to accept what is, every decision thereafter will be flawed.

Get selfish and take care of you (and your son). Her asking you to lift that carcass of a marriage off the floor and comfort it is absurd. She's a big girl, she can take care of herself. And she has zero right to ask you for anything right now. If anything, she should be stepping up to allow you space and time to grieve.

When you're done grieving or at least stabilized and have some semblance of acceptance. Then you can start thinking about the future. What she does with that time is on her. Maybe she transforms and you choose her again, to begin anew. Maybe she doesn't. But you are in no position to truly decide right now. Keep your job, keep your home, take care of you and grieve.

[This message edited by TheEnd at 4:16 PM, July 7th (Wednesday)]

posts: 56   ·   registered: Dec. 3rd, 2019
id 8673243

notanotherchance ( member #46677) posted at 12:17 AM on Thursday, July 8th, 2021

We agreed to do the STD tests next week.

All fine & dandy but she is playing you my man, people who are not involved in your M can see this because we have you're interests at heart & most of us have been in your shoes.

Also as many others have stated DNA your children, the cheating was way to close to your WW pregnancy to eliminate the AP as a sperm donor so best to DNA to avoid any issues going forward.

You were & are your WW's backup plan, plan B...etc, something you will always have to live with going forward.

Sending strength

[This message edited by notanotherchance at 6:24 PM, July 7th (Wednesday)]

posts: 582   ·   registered: Feb. 5th, 2015   ·   location: Overseas
id 8673311

Butforthegrace ( member #63264) posted at 12:24 AM on Thursday, July 8th, 2021

She gave in after 2 years

She didn't "give in". She decided that she wanted to feel him inside of her. She decided to take off her clothes and let him do this. She decided to lie to you about it, repeatedly, while she was doing this. These were all her volitional choices.

You're getting played, my man. Married 2 years. She's fucking another man while planning a marriage with you, and getting married. Normally, this is the period of the most intense, burning love a woman feels for a man. In other words, the past 4 years is the BEST you will get from her. Why are you sticking around to find out what her worst will be?

"The wicked man flees when no one chases."

posts: 3771   ·   registered: Mar. 31st, 2018   ·   location: Midwest
id 8673318

 Confusedmd (original poster new member #78802) posted at 7:56 AM on Thursday, July 8th, 2021

Thank you. Your replies are very kind and thoughtful.

I just told her about 30 minutes ago that I am going to a lawyer to find out my options, and suggested she do it too. She became hysterical. She said she won't go to a lawyer and begged me to go to counselling instead. I told her to go find a shrink for herself. I also asked her for a timeline.

I also told her that I will no longer sleep in the same room with her because she can't understand that I can't even bear to touch her much more have sex with her, it makes me nauseous. I often get "woken" up each night by her hugging me and trying to initiate sex, trying to sort of get me off guard and lustful, and my repeated pleas to never do it again are unheard.

She asked again and again if I didn't love her any more. I got fed up and just left her on the floor, she's in a crying mess right now in our bedroom.

[This message edited by Confusedmd at 4:32 AM, July 8th (Thursday)]

posts: 27   ·   registered: May. 16th, 2021
id 8673400

LostInHisFog ( member #78503) posted at 8:38 AM on Thursday, July 8th, 2021

very gently and coming from a place of concern, you need to get your hands on a mail order paternity test without her knowing, gather the samples from yourself and son (it'll be a simple swab for bubs) and check to see if he is yours. Not to kill the love you have for your son, he is your son, but to put to rest the possibility that her deception is so deep when she fell pregnant to AP, and he didn't want her or the baby, she went to you.

I never quite trust a timeline without a poly backing it up so the fact everything from sleeping with AP, your promise to wait, AP dumping her and then her falling pregnant and marrying you is really really close.

She is a MD, she probably knows how to fudge those weeks to make the timing line up better than anyone.

She has been so duplicitous during this entire time I wouldn't give her the benefit of the doubt until the worst possible scenario, she tricked you into raising another man's baby, is put to rest. You can love that boy until the end of your days, no one is saying turn your back on him, but this is to expose her. She could be hysterical right now because she never wanted to be a single mom, fearful of being alone, nothing to do with remorse.

Lastly protect your consent, even when married NO means no!! The fact she is ignoring your right of consent is just another mark against her not caring about you at all, it's all her, she wants sex so she pushes it even if you say no, that's not on CMD, at all, that will add new levels of trauma and frankly it's rape. You don't want to have sex? you don't have to have sex!! It's revolting to read her pushing it and it was fast acting self preservation that you removed yourself from that situation.

[This message edited by LostInHisFog at 2:39 AM, July 8th (Thursday)]

I edit because I'm fluent in typo & autocorrect hates me.

posts: 175   ·   registered: Mar. 14th, 2021
id 8673402

guvensiz ( member #75858) posted at 9:48 AM on Thursday, July 8th, 2021

I told her to go find a shrink for herself.

It looks like she really needs it. This is not a healthy mood.

I know you don't buy her love/sex bombing but you seemed impressed by her crying and pleading. I guess it can't stop you from seeing the truth anymore.

If you feel confused, remind yourself who she really is. Remind yourself that this person who is now trying to rape you once refused to have sex with you. You mentioned that you were saving yourselves until marriage, but you didn't say who came up with the idea, I wouldn't be surprised if she is.

And how did she get appointed to the job in her (and AP's of course) hometown? Did she demand it?

While she say that she has still feelings for him now, guess where things might go when you get a little bit back to normal.

posts: 501   ·   registered: Nov. 14th, 2020
id 8673409

Buffer ( member #71664) posted at 10:00 AM on Thursday, July 8th, 2021

Can I ask what was her plan if you ever found out without her confession?

How was she able to justify to herself that having the A was ok?Specific if she was clear of her depression after a year?

It wasn’t a mistake, it was never a mistake. Specially if she chased him for over a year.

I take it you have a medical background but IC for you both.

One day at a time.


posts: 1199   ·   registered: Sep. 24th, 2019   ·   location: Australia
id 8673411

 Confusedmd (original poster new member #78802) posted at 10:11 AM on Thursday, July 8th, 2021

To everyone who posted here, I'm really thankful for taking your time for me. I am reading and rereading your posts here. I will talk to WW again once she calms down. I will ask for a timeline then a polygraph. And I will talk to her about DNA testing our son.

The following text may be TMI:

We got married in June 2019. We would have sex every 2-3 days when she was with me. I remember she would always want to do it every day, but I was tired. She would be disappointed if I was not able to have another erection for round 2.

It was probably in September-October 2019 when she got a leave from work and we were having sex almost everyday because she wanted to get pregnant so bad. She even wanted to have sex multiple times a day. We would have a pregnancy test about once every 3 days and she would be disappointed every time it was negative. We were happy then when it came back positive. All this, to say that I'm pretty certain that he is my son, plus his features are so similar to mine.

I dont want to expose the affair because I dont want us to be talk of the town. I dont want to see nurses whispering and stealing glances at work. One day maybe I will expose the AP, when the time is right.

posts: 27   ·   registered: May. 16th, 2021
id 8673414

 Confusedmd (original poster new member #78802) posted at 10:27 AM on Thursday, July 8th, 2021

When we were in medical school together, she would steal glances of me in class, at the laboratory, at the hospital. It was so often that it became obvious to me and our colleagues. She would be sad if I wasnt giving her enough attention. One time I was reading in one of our classrooms while she was hanging out with our classmates just outside the door. I noticed our classmates laughing, and when I looked up, I saw them teasing her because she was staring at me, on the verge of crying because she had told me to hang out with her but I didn't. She always wanted to hold hands with me. Always wanted to be with me. If I mentioned that I was going to buy groceries, she would ask to come with and sulk if I refused. She was always insecure because she was a "bad girl" and would ask me why I was attracted to her knowing her wild history of partying in the past. Always asking me what I was thinking when I am silent. We were inseparable.

How? What? When? Even at the start of our relationship, we gave each other our SM passwords. I helped her sister when she became pregnant as an 18 year old. I cared for her, and she seemingly cared for me too. When we would fight, she would always be the one to give in and be the better person. When I was angry at her, she would be so scared that I would leave her. And then I would assure her that I won't.

What's so special about OM, that he gets to ruin me?

posts: 27   ·   registered: May. 16th, 2021
id 8673415

babbu ( member #48847) posted at 11:04 AM on Thursday, July 8th, 2021

OP ... gently as possible. All the behaviors you are describing about her are obsessive and not normal. Adults don't sulk like that. I'm so very sorry. So very sorry.

posts: 267   ·   registered: Aug. 6th, 2015
id 8673421
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