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Question: Is a true commitment by a BS to divorce a necessary ingredient to reconciliation?

So I hire an attorney, have them file for divorce, and I tell everyone in our circle that I am asking for a divorce. WW initially accepts divorce as her wishes also, then a few days later does a hard reversal, suddenly wanting to do recommended R work, taking all my suggestions, admitting to her short comings in R, in communication, and in doing her part. I suddenly am in a position that the woman coming to me now is one I’d reconcile with, but I’m on the fence. I’ve seen so many stories about how a wayward is stuck, then the divorce process is started by the BS, family/everyone told, and only then does WS behave like a truly repentant person that cares. I’m on the fence, paperwork is done, attorney paid; and attorney waiting on my go ahead. Then it begins, but now waffling.

I believe it is. You need to be willing to lose your marriage.

Is she still hitting you? What has she done to stop being physically abusive?

Are you hoping that presenting her with divorce will change her behavior? If so, that may or may not work.

Agree with HF that you need to be willing to lose the marriage, but it kind of sounds like you're not, and instead you're hoping this will save the marriage. If that's the case, you may not get the desired outcome.

and only then does WS behave like a truly repentant person that cares

That all by itself is worrisome. They don't care when the consequences are all on you, but when they start experiencing them, it's suddenly real and your needs matter. That's still selfishness. It's pretty childish. It's how you get a toddler to behave.

[This message edited by DevastatedDee at 2:35 PM, June 24th (Thursday)]

Answering a few questions.

No, WW is not physically violent anymore. She became fully repentant and accepted her behavior as despicable.

No, I did not get divorce paperwork prepared as a ploy. I am ready to end the marriage. I have a strong desire to end the marriage. I may yet call attorney and say go. Waffling.

Yea, it is disturbing that only after I want divorce does she care. It is not completely fair to say she did nothing, or never cared, or never accepted any responsibility. But this was mixed with a lack of empathy and playing the crying shame game when it came to doing the work. The work came to a halt because of her tactics to avoid the work, so I decided divorce. Now I’m in shock at this new corner she is supposedly turning and wondering about my main question. Are waywards stubborn and emotionally malformed humans who won’t do the work until they have consequences facing them?

That is the problem, isn't it, that we can not just generalize every WS as being, doing, thinking, feeling the same as each other.

As much as WS's are alike, they are just as much unique. Just like every BS. Every one's situation is unique.

Unfortunately, I do not know your background story. Do you have children? That would slow down my divorce, if seeing a change.

However, if no children are involved, maybe a divorce and than she can win you back? Only because you are waffling and I see that you posted WW is a serial cheater.

[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 3:03 PM, June 24th (Thursday)]

Unfortunately, I do not know your background story. Do you have children?

No children together, but raised them all from young. Yes, WW Is a serial cheater having EA/physical with a primary, having random hotel bar pickups, sexting, and using internet cheating sites to procure one night stands. A complete and duplicitous double life with aliases and a burner phone.

Question: Is a true commitment by a BS to divorce a necessary ingredient to reconciliation?

So I hire an attorney, have them file for divorce, and I tell everyone in our circle that I am asking for a divorce. WW initially accepts divorce as her wishes also, then a few days later does a hard reversal, suddenly wanting to do recommended R work, taking all my suggestions, admitting to her short comings in R, in communication, and in doing her part. I suddenly am in a position that the woman coming to me now is one I’d reconcile with, but I’m on the fence. I’ve seen so many stories about how a wayward is stuck, then the divorce process is started by the BS, family/everyone told, and only then does WS behave like a truly repentant person that cares. I’m on the fence, paperwork is done, attorney paid; and attorney waiting on my go ahead. Then it begins, but now waffling.

Yet this isn't really the whole of it, Apparition. You can't isolate this one question and freeze frame it. You have to deal with the gestalt of your situation which is:

1. A repeat, serial adulterer over YEARS.

2. A repeat, serial adulterer who engages in web applications designed to offer her a smorgasbord of strange men to sleep with.

3. Random hotel hook ups in which your wife turned herself into something tawdry and cheap.

4. Repeated risk exposure of you to dangerous life-threatening STD's, in fact giving you at least one venereal disease (a fact which inexplicably kept from the MC)

5. Mental, emotional, verbal, and physical ABUSE of you by her. Real physical abuse, not pretend physical abuse, to the point where you were digging glass out of your injured arm.

6. Complete and ongoing refusal of ANY transparency or accountability.

Now, suddenly, you've gotten strong and see what happens? Suddenly she's willing to do everything you've asked now that you really are on the brink?

Remember what I told you about the scientifically documented doormat effect? Treat yourself as a doormat, and a doormat you will be.

It is EXTREMELY suspect that this woman was abusing you only a short time ago and is now all sweetness and light when you're prepared to actually divorce her.

Extremely suspect.

We cannot decide this for you.

If I look at this as an outside observer, I can only see getting yourself away from this abusive woman who has serious mental health issues, divorcing her and moving on with your life!

She became fully repentant and accepted her behavior as despicable.

What does this mean, 'fully repentant'? I don't mean to sound skeptical, but we've heard this sort of thing from you before. Don't take this as me beating up on you, I'm just wondering if hopium is at play here.

Now I’m in shock at this new corner she is supposedly turning and wondering about my main question.

I'm not shocked at all, and frankly I'm surprised you are. It is exactly the sort of thing a manipulative and abusive narc would do.

A complete and duplicitous double life with aliases and a burner phone.

And as we've pointed out before, it is extremely rare to see a successful reconciliation with a serial cheating looking-for-Mr.-Goodbar middle-aged woman who has serious mental health issues. Extremely rare.

[This message edited by Thumos at 4:57 PM, June 24th (Thursday)]

Apparition.

You know, it took us a long time to tell you this. But that doesn't mean she's healed and safe now.

Now you are in control of your life. You need to review her cheating and her attitude after DDay realistically and objectively and decide if you want to stay married to this person.

As for the question you asked; Regardless a wish for R or D, I find it best to initiate the divorce process. Because if WS doesn't want to lose BS, she will feel obliged to meet his/her expectations, if she/he doesn't care, not sharing a life with that person would be the best option and there will be no time lost.

[This message edited by guvensiz at 4:48 PM, June 24th (Thursday)]

If you continue with the divorce, you will see with great clarity exactly who this woman is when she starts to see that you aren't being manipulated successfully.

What does this mean, 'fully repentant'?

Hey Thumos, hope you’re staying strong and feeling good. I don’t feel the least bit beat up by any of your comments, your insight and directness is welcome.

On the above, its a bit difficult to explain, but I have training and I’m very muscular/large. Unless she caught me unaware with a weapon, it would be near impossible for her to hurt me. This gave her what she thought was leeway to be violent and let herself go. She took ownership and became consistently apologetic and has shown no signs of being willing to do that again. I do understand I may be downplaying the abusive behavior, I’m gentle, but violence doesn’t scare me.

I read plenty that said waywards don’t take accountability until they see consequences . But I’m wondering now if its real accountability or just more selfishness on her part and she’s realized the minimum she needs to do is higher than what she was doing.

[This message edited by Apparition at 6:12 PM, June 24th (Thursday)]

I'm starting to believe it is.

What she is saying is great, but what is she doing?

This happened with my H, and I didn't believe him. I continued the D process. During that time he began to do the heavy lifting, with nothing but a D in front of him. I told him at one point, "You're not going to IC, reading, being helpful for me, right?" He said, "I know it's too late. But I need to change regardless, for my kids and any future partners. I'm obviously a screwed up person."

After about a year, I stopped the D. We had reached an agreement with a mediator and needed to submit it all to the court, but we didn't. I didn't promise R but said we could allow more time since there was so much peace at home and the kids were happy. (We were in house S.)

Actions.

Stop nothing until she shows ongoing and consistent actions, regardless of your future. She either wants to change or she doesn't. The M should not be the only reason.

Get divorced. Tell her that if she's truly sorry, she will make it up to you by making this divorce as easy as possible both emotionally and financially. Explain that she can't take back the years she took from you but she can give you the rest of your life back.

I have training and I’m very muscular/large.

I am as well. And I understand that most women seem almost harmless or their attacks might seem laughable almost. After all where does a 800 pound gorilla sit? but it isn’t. Don’t excuse her behavior just because she “gave herself license” to be abusive.

Actions.

Stop nothing until she shows ongoing and consistent actions, regardless of your future. She either wants to change or she doesn't. The M should not be the only reason.

This is what I’m leaning toward, it just makes sense and its the 1st I’ve felt on level footing and in control of my destiny. Oddly, one of WW’s tactics was to claim I was controlling and she had no power. A way of claiming victimhood. I always asked, name one example: she traveled as she pleased, she spent money as she pleased, she spent her time unaccountable as she pleased, she selected home, decor; and most mutual activities, and conversationally i was open to respectfully address any wants or needs. So what control and lack of power? Silence, change of subject, anger or tears, but never an example one.

Waywards are manipulative by nature.

[This message edited by Apparition at 10:02 AM, June 25th (Friday)]

I’m wondering now if its real accountability or just more selfishness on her part and she’s realized the minimum she needs to do is higher than what she was doing.

Ask yourself is her turn around really about the relationship or the benefits she gets from the M. I suspect it's the later. Serial A means seriously broken. What if anything has she done to fix that. Actions not words. With that much broken if she hasn't done much work yet, she's not going to get to being a safe partner. Go through with the D. If she does serious work, you can date after if she seems for real.

On the above, its a bit difficult to explain, but I have training and I’m very muscular/large. Unless she caught me unaware with a weapon, it would be near impossible for her to hurt me.

This is a woman who has, according to you, traveled as she pleased, spent money as she pleased, she spent her time unaccountable as she pleased, decorated her environment however she pleased, fucked whoever she pleased, and-- up until this very moment-- had a husband who was willing to do whatever she wanted to keep her happy. She is used to being in complete control of every aspect of her life, including you.

So when Mrs. Apparition finds herself in the position of having to make serious sacrifices and concessions-- either in the divorce or if you have strict terms of reconciliation-- I think it's very likely that the monster you think is restrained is going to come back worse then ever.

And when that happens, if the police get involved (either because the neighbors call or she does), what do you think will happen when they show up and see Conan the Barbarian and hysterically weeping damsel? What if she has even the slightest welt because you tried to restrain her? Who do you think is getting a free cop car ride that night?

If you think I'm being hyperbolic or over dramatic, please consider the following facts: (1) She's capable of violence and (2) She's very adept at lying.

By your own account, your WS is a serial cheater with that can be physical…what would ever make you want to stay married to that?

I think you know the direction to go.

The lack of consequences conveys that they are correct in what they use as justification and how bad it could have been if they have no consequence.