SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Ok.I haven't yet read other people's posts so I may sound redundant.I recall you saying she is living in a fantasy land.I have to think with them.One thing I have learned in all my treacherous years of navigating marriage,divorce,relationships is they take work and commitment.She is in this new relationship escaping the responsibilities of what you two have built.It's enticing to her.The grass looks frickin greener over there.It won't be all sunshine and roses for forever.Just a feeling.However right now she is having her cake and eating it too.You gave her the green light.You made it ok.I get it.You love her and want her to be happy.It's not your fault that she chose to do this but are you compromising to make her happy?I don't know it just doesn't past the smell test to me.With you she has history,reality and the hardships it takes in a relationship that takes work.Being in a commitment is not for the faint of heart.How many of us who are in it have had those rocky moments and if we stay the course and work on it we are glad later that we are still there and we didn't cave.I have worked with the elderly for many,many years.Over those years I have had plenty of conversations with couples on how they made it work.Let me tell you guys.There is something so endearing and beautiful about two people who have committed through thick or thin to be in it together.Only them.The strength and integrity which I sadly feel is lacking in so many people today.I feel you have integrity and fairness.I am so sorry that you are going through this.I hope my words don't sound too harsh.I know friends who are poly amorous but this isn't it.They have honor as well.You were deceived and by her as well as the couple.

There is a poster here named Bigger who speaks eloquently on the concept of not sharing your wife with another man. To clumsily paraphrase him, you are currently sharing your WW with her AP. Maybe you're okay with that, but the fact that you're here posting suggests you are not.

The advice I would offer, in the strongest possible terms, is that you tell her: "Wife, I recognize that AP is important to you and communicating with him, despite my pain, is something you wish to do. I want you to know that I love you, I want you to be happy, and therefore I want you to know you are free to communicate or even be with AP as much as you wish. But not as my wife. I won't share you. So as long as you continue to contact him, I will be taking steps to end our marriage, and I wish you happiness with AP."

Butforthegrace:That is some awesome advice.So spot on.

What further consequences do I enact?

1) Postnuptial agreement granting you everything and he nothing in the event of divorce.

2) STD testing.

3) Forfeiture of all account codes and passwords and total transparency in every aspect of her life.

4) She must curtail all friendships with men outside the marriage. All.

You can make more up.

Just my 0.02, but having a relevant consequence for shitty behavior isn't 'transactional'. I mean - "I won't have sex with you while you are having sex with someone else"... yeah, that's a natural consequence. There was no manipulation in my saying "I will not be in an open marriage". My xwh thought I was being manipulative when I said no to him dating and sleeping with other women, sure. But he also thought falling peen-first into a teenager was a good idea so I really don't trust his judgment all that much.

And just MHO but with infidelity, there really IS no middle ground - the 'middle' keeps you stuck in infidelity.

I mean, you landed on divorce. I haven't followed everyone's story, but I don't know that making someone sleep on the couch or withholding affection until needs were met has ever worked out or opened the eyes of a WS.

Ultimately it took me being very serious about asking for a divorce to get my needs met.

I'm just trying to at least give something like middle ground advice, that the consequences are as simple as communicating the pain they are causing your back to their face.

It's entirely possible that all roads lead to asking for the relationship to change massively or end. That might be all there is. No middle ground. Just satisfaction or separation.

Ultimately it took me being very serious about asking for a divorce to get my needs met.

I'm just trying to at least give something like middle ground advice, that the consequences are as simple as communicating the pain they are causing your back to their face.

It is a mantra here that the BH cannot control the outcome. He can only control himself. It is a giant mistake, IMO, to use things like threats of divorce, or sleeping on the couch, or withholding sex, as a gambit to try to entice the WW into behaving a certain way, a sort of "draw play". Total waste of time and energy.

If the BH is okay sharing his WW, then share her. OP here may be okay sharing. But if the BH is not okay sharing, and the WW continues to engage the AP, then there is simply one choice, and only one choice, available to the BH: D.

Inkarnit

I hope you stay with us and let us know how you make out.

Your story is among the more interesting to me, I'd really like to know how it turns out.

No matter what you do, don't stand for infidelity.

Keep in mind that folks here speak from experience. I can tell you that my STBXWW told me several times that she stopped communicating with AP. I got burned over and over and over again. Don't be like me.

[This message edited by DanielJK at 6:33 AM, March 25th (Thursday)]

Eventually, I think full NC will be able to be established. The MC will probably insist on that, too.

No MC is going to police your marriage. That never works, instead they try to get you 2 to talk. Plus you are paying them, so they aren't going to stand up for you if you won't stand up for yourself.

What they will do is ask your WW how she thinks her talking to AP makes you feel. I wish I could say you would then voice your anger at it, but your neutrality will most likely make the MC wonder what is going on.

They will see things the way most people on this forum see things.

You allowing your WW to set the terms and boundaries of ending her affair is letting a drug addict set a schedule for when they use.

It takes 1 bad day, or you getting angry or not doing the dishes. Then she is back into the affair where none of that stuff existed.

You mentioned you had broken stuff in the marriage you needed to fix. Your wife had broken stuff as well or she wouldn't have had the affair. Don't let this be the focus of your MC.

She needs to explain how she could hurt you like she did and not stop contact after seeing your pain. It is a simple question and not an ultimatum. You seem to avoid conflict, this is asking her how she could continue to hurt you. It forces her to see that NC being broken causes you pain.

If she ignores this, then you know what is broken in the marriage. She is more concerned with her own pleasure or comfort over your pain.

Is that better than before?

Infidelity is the second worst form of spousal abuse than has ever been invented. If you were walking down the street and saw a 300 pound man beating the shit out of his wife, like roundhouse kicks and closed fists, what would you do if he just started slapping her instead after you said something? Would you still intervene?

She’s slapping you now. Abuse is abuse is abuse.

Wow, that was a lot to read and take in. I absolutely agree with all of the advice that's been posted in here. Whilst difficult to stomach, there is a lot of wisdom behind majority of the posts.

I'm not going to weigh in really, but I do fully and wholeheartedly agree with the notion of 180 and establishing NC.

I really liked the analogy I saw used of the pet dog, oddly I found that the less I gave attention and chase, the more my WH feels the need to put effort in. The weight/burden gets shifted to the other person to actually make the effort.

I think many of these posts are reiterating that notion, that true change only occurs if the WS is truly remorseful, takes responsibility for the hurt and pain they have caused and puts in the effort to change.

The more concessions I have made for my WH, the more he seemed to take advantage of them and never really grasped the deep hurt he had caused.

I'm not going to give advice, because let's face it, I've got my own kettle of fish going on and journey to run through.

But I will say that listening to the people here, and taking their advice with the greatest of intentions, as well as combing through the forums has provided me with valuable insight into the typical patterns that occur with the BS and WS dynamic following discovery. Please don't underestimate the wisdom that each person has provided.

The early stages after discovery are rough. I only wish that I had found SI sooner because reading through these posts is like reading a journal of my own life after discovery.

I know how rough this journey is, and can be. We have all been there *raises hand*

If the advice on this thread is too much, perhaps have a read through some of the other threads, it may be easier to digest the information when it's about someone else but you can glean similarities to your own situation.

I do wish you all the best with your situation. Whatever the outcome is.

Full contact with AP has not yet ceased, but it's moving that direction

What's her excuse for not ceasing contact with her AP? NC FOREVER should be the most important consequence of her huge betrayal, until this happens you really haven't accomplished much, she's still in the A. NC FOREVER is paramount, don't allow her to take her sweet time to "cease contact" with her boyfriend/lover, you're still tip toeing around the issue, take real control of the situation.

she's open about things with me

She's now a proven cheater and liar, don't take anything she says at face value.

There has been no physical contact between them since D-Day. They do not see each other anymore.

But you mentioned AP still goes to the gym and that they participate in a group class, if so this is another "non accomplishment", but again the real issue here is that she's STILL in contact with AP and you are STILL allowing it.

We're on the right path.

Not until NC FOREVER with AP has been established with no ifs, ands or buts.

Will it save our marriage in the end? I don't know.

If THOUSANDS of stories here and in other websites are any indicator, the longer NC is not established, the possibility of a successful R diminishes.

Time will tell. But we're making the moves we need to make.

Except you haven't made the most important one, NC FOREVER with AP and everyone who enabled/encouraged the A. Why can't you use the same tactic you used when his office called demanding payment ? Tell him to stop going to the GYM and to try to contact your WW, otherwise you will file a formal complaint with the state disciplinary board, of course that would only take care of NC on his part, and your WW should be the one telling him this, but at least if he throws her under the bus and ignores her, she will likely move on and forget about him much sooner.

Ignore the advice at your own peril, you want to save the M, we have given you advice that has stood the test of time, if you want to increase the odds of a successful R then heed the advice, I would hate to see your case wind up as yet another of the many "you guys were right" threads, good luck.

Oh man... I have read thousands of post on this website and I can already tell how terribly this is going to end. Poor OP has no idea how much lying and deceiving WS's are capable of and how much more caution they will use once they are expected and/or discovered.

I feel bad for I think we all know this is going to end horribly. I wouldn't be surprised if she is getting her ducks in a row and working with the AP and his wife to do so. Then the facade will drop and it will be OP vs his WW, her AP and his wife... all of which sound pretty successful. I wish he listened to all of the great advice he was given. But sometimes you got to learn lessons the hard way.

Why I’m posting I have no clue, you’ve made it clear you give a rats ass about the advice you’ve gotten. But here goes anyway.

You’re putting the cart before the horse. You need to get yourself out of infidelity, then decide to R or D. You’re trying to figure out how to rebuild your house while it’s burning down, hint, put the fire out.

Transparency, you should have full access to all her electronics.

No Contact! As long as she’s in contact with AP she is in the A. I know you don’t want to hear it but NC is a corner-stone and you absolutely cannot R with her either in the A or in contact with AP, you will fail.

BTW, you will fail, also, at MC while there is an active A (and she is still in the A)!!! Complete waste of time. MC will be more of a waste of time than the time I’m wasting posting this.

[This message edited by DeWittle at 3:51 AM, March 25th (Thursday)]

We don’t know your wife so maybe her affair fog is lifting.

What we do know from experience is that allowing continued contact with the APs means you are allowing the affair to continue.

My H thought he could just be friends w/ the OW. Round 2 of the affair had him planning our D. They resumed the affair after a few weeks apart as friends. I had no idea but I can tell you cheaters will lie and tell you everything you want to hear to get what they want.

So she’s more open now. More available emotionally. Yet the contact with the AP continues. Hmmmm........

I'm open to "not being nice" too. I just thought it was worth a shot at least until I can get a counselor to help us really get deep into this. I don't want to end things by "being the man" before I can get a professional involved. And being nice has gotten agreement to get help.

All you did was enable her further.

A counselor is not going to fix your problem of not being able to stand up for yourself.

She/they are walking all over you.

Look at what you are teaching your kids.

[This message edited by Marz at 5:00 AM, March 25th (Thursday)]

Perhaps the moderators can move this thread to reconciliation since the Op feels his marital issues have already been mostly addressed to his satisfaction .

OP most people taking your laid back strategy will end up with a serial cheating spouse so please know all the irate messages here are a reflection of that general reality .

Im glad you confronted your wifes lovers at your gym , that was a wise decision on your part .

[This message edited by siracha at 5:49 AM, March 25th (Thursday)]

Im glad you confronted your wifes lovers at your gym , that was a wise decision on your part .

I wholeheartedly agree. Congratulations for standing up for yourself.

I am glad that you are feeling better about your M and that YOU feel better, specifically.

Like others, I wonder why you have not asked your WW to stop contact with AP. As others have said, this is your choice, but it seems to me that what she is doing is detrimental to your M, and her entire focus should be on HEALING the M. It seems to me that she is not all in on this.

Keep seeing your IC.

Wishing you the best.

This whole thread is like…

It’s like someone recognizing he has a drinking problem and deciding to go sober up and go to AA and then stopping on the way to the meeting to have a drink to celebrate his sobriety…

I don’t see this working.

OBS was present when I walked into the gym to find the 3 of them working out together.

By saying full contact hasn't ceased, I mean that she is no longer a patient, they no longer work out together in private, but he is still a member of the gym and she still talks to him on Facebook, The only time they see each other in person is during Saturday morning group classes at the gym.

I really have no complaints and feel good about my days.

Wow.......just wow!