SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

It would make me sick to my stomach to watch my WS interact with someone they had betrayed like that. How can a WS learn the value of honesty if they are allowed to continue being dishonest? It's that capacity for deceit which needs to be extinguished. And I get it... you believe that all good things come to those who wait and it'll all work out someday in therapy. But I wouldn't be able to get those images out of my mind, the easy lies and the teeth behind the smiles. It's just gross.

You know, for many people, the love doesn't survive the betrayal. At first it might feel like the love is the most paramount thing as we experience the kneejerk reaction to put things back together and save the status quo. But then, after the hysterical bonding and the plain of lethal flatness, sometimes the love just isn't there anymore... or isn't what it ought to be. Watching your WS as she actively deceives others might catch up with you in unexpected ways. I just wanted to make you aware of that.

It's all "my way or the highway" with you people.

This is why I disappear.

No. In this situation, it's about right,or wrong.

If you had a buddy who had been screwing your wife, but you didn't know about it, would you still think he's a good friend?

I doubt it.

The truth is, you are ok with the betrayal of OBS. And it's wrong.

Don't like the truth? That won't stop people from speaking it.

It's all "my way or the highway" with you people.

I just don't want you to end up like me. I'm one year from dday. My STBXWW never went NC with AP.

Now it's a year later and I'm miserable. It sucks. I'm finally on my way to divorce, but I never got comfortable...always wondering, what's on that phone, who was that last text from, where is she? A fuckimg year of hell.

And stop and think about it. They still have contact. What stopped them from making the leap from friends to lovers last time? Morals? They were both married, it didn't stop them then, what's stopping from "just one more, they'll never know.".

I'm not telling you it's my way or the highway. You know your situation better than I do. I would just say don't live uncomfortable. Life is too short. Be happy.

Don't let fear hold you back. It held me back and I'm worse off now.

The people here just want you out of infidelity.

Not sure if it is mentioned in this thread but two books that I would recommend are:

Not just friends, Glass

How to help your spouse heal, Macdonald

They are well worth the read.

I think OBS (I'm not sure if it is right to call her OBS) is more likely to know the truth than BS. She had already consented to this situation from the very beginning. NC with AP but full contact with OBS, looks funny. This could be a way of covering up their threesome A.

It's all "my way or the highway" with you people.

First - this is a gross generalization and not fair to those of us who offer real and good advice beyond "Leave Her" " Burn it all down".

NOW for someone that has successfully R'd, and has been here longer than most, I have to say this....

The First, Second, and Last rule of R is

NO MORE LIES OF ANY KIND EVER AGAIN

Your wife is still lying. She is lying to her friend, she is lying to you, but most importantly she is lying to herself, and until she is forced, yes I said forced (because people don't do what they don't want to do unless there is a serious and real consequence) to be honest your M is not in R, it's not even heading toward R, in fact it's in this abusive horrible state called Limbo.

Limbo land steals your self-esteem, strength, and common sense. It makes you want to do anything and everything you can to save an M that is so horribly broken that you can't even see the damage that it is doing to you. (Don't believe me talk to Barcher about this, or Abandondad)

R starts when the WS gets very real with themselves, and honest with everyone.

You know the OBS is being shit on. And you are an active participant in that betrayal.

Lastly the quote above is absolute gold. You are being complicit in another persons betrayal by not saying something to this other woman. She is being betrayed, not just by her spouse but by her friend. That is not just shitty, it is super shitty. You don't tell the other spouse to be vindicitive or spiteful, you tell them so they can too make an informed decision on what they want and need to do to be safe, and protect themselves.

Belive me Inkarnit, your W isn't the only he is trying to bed. If he wants this whole sister wife scenario she was most likely not the first and won't be his last. His wife deserves to know.

Well there's one thing I agree with. I don't give a shit about OBS. She HAS been complicit in propositioning my wife for sister wifehood whether she knows about the PA or not. So I don't really care what happens with her or her marriage. I only care about mine.

I was going to write just that.

Why does everyone think OBS deserves to know the truth? Her personality is just as shitty as the others. (Just a reservation, this whole sister wife story could also be a lie and OBS may be unaware of everything) But it will be very useful for BS to talk about the matter directly with her to make everything clear. And NC must be establihed between WW and her too.

guvensiz, OBS definitely propositioned her as sister wife in the early days. That was verified in the initial texts I read. She is aware there was a EM between WW and AP but doesn't know it ever moved physical.

guvensiz, OBS definitely propositioned her as sister wife in the early days. That was verified in the initial texts I read. She is aware there was a EM between WW and AP but doesn't know it ever moved physical.

That would be one reason to tell her it did move to a PA. If she knows she can’t trust her husband and your WW, she’s less likely to try and recruit her as a sisterwife again.

By the way, what kind of assurance do you have that she isn’t still trying to lure your WW into their lifestyle?

Of course things are better your WW got what she wants; you and the affair. You WW was in an affair with both friend and her husband, as long as there is contact (WITH EITHER), the A continues! You sir, are still in INFIDELITY.

I don't understand how they can be such close friends when WW was having an affair with her husband...

Because you didn’t inform her. Feel how you will about her but the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

But you do you, good luck to you.

It's all "my way or the highway" with you people.

Each of us was here because we were cheated on. This group can actually feel your pain, because we've felt your pain.

Many of us have been posting here for quite a while. Over time, we've seen dozens of permutations and combinations and variations of infidelity. In that way, this place is a deep reservoir of crowd-sourced knowledge about infidelity, curated by people who know first-hand what it feel like to be betrayed.

Out of that, we see certain patterns emerge. No matter how special an OP feels the details of his circumstance are, certain truths about cheaters emerge over and over and over. In the end, it becomes increasingly clear that cheaters are all basically the same: dishonest, insecure, the type of person who will convince her- or himself that her wedding vows are conditional.

We've also seen that there are a few basics that need to be in place for true R to occur. One of them is that the cheater need to go absolutely 100% NC with her AP. Sex is powerful stuff. Sex outside of marriage, in breach of marital vows, is even more powerful. Truly intoxicating. It's not realistic to think your WW can live a life that involves crossing paths with the AP without the chemistry that led to them fucking in the first place stirring up those same emotional resonances, every time she sees him. Even if she is sincere about her desire to move beyond it, it's like repeatedly re-opening a wound. It can't heal if you keep doing it.

[This message edited by Butforthegrace at 7:19 AM, April 29th (Thursday)]

Let's clear something up.

When doing the right and moral thing it doesn't matter if you like the person(s) or hate them.

Whether they appreciate it or not.

You can't control another individuals actions. All you can do is control yourself. We all have a moral compass and you're either guided by it or you're not.

You have to be able to look at yourself in the mirror and be comfortable with what you see.

Not telling OBS is just you telling yourself another lie and as it's been pointed out true R puts ALL of its cards on the table (not some) and deals in honesty.

It is the ONLY path forward that gives R a chance to work.

"It's all or nothing with you people"?

You came here for advice.

You want your lying cheating wife to be honest with you. How can you expect this when YOU can't even be honest with yourself.

It does NOT matter if OBS is a good or bad person and thus worthy of hearing the truth. These three liars brought this clusterfuck on you.

What you need to ask yourself are you a liar as well?

Are you going to be someone that was hurt and betrayed by their actions or are you going to join them in their lying and cover up which makes you NO different than them.

Are you going to be someone that was hurt and betrayed by their actions or are you going to join them in their lying and cover up which makes you NO different than them.

While I do believe that people are owed agency in their lives, I don't think that inkarnit falls into the above. That woman HAS her agency. She had it the moment she was complicit in inserting herself into inkarnit's marriage. The AP and his spouse are no innocents in this. Sure, she may not know the depths of the affair, but that woman is in no way a friend of his marriage.

Inkarnit, that leads me to this post. The AP and his wife are toxic. They are not only NOT friends of your marriage, but enemies of your marriage. And your wife is still deeply involved in this. Whether still connected to the AP, or being 'friends' with his wife, she is still VERY WAYWARD in her actions. This is where you need to show firm boundaries. It's not about gently nudging your wife, someday, to counseling to possibly address this; it's about you telling your wife flat out that YOU can not and will not except either of those two in your life and marriage. Because, at the end of the day, would you accept them in your life and marriage a year from now? Five years from now?

If not, then why wait? Why compromise EVERYTHING that you and your character stand for?

I think it's easy to see some advice as black and white because it often can be. The one really shitty part of being betrayed is the amount of conflict and confusion that you assume. The most straightforward way of dealing with this is breaking things down into a relatively right or wrong viewpoint. *You* were the one betrayed, you shouldn't also have to play the role of judge and arbiter. Establishing firm, crystal clear boundaries is about all you can do at this point, really.

Sharkman, that's pretty much how I see it.

I'm working on what I need to work on now. It's not an end all. It's not complete. More work needs to be done and things need to happen. I'm just saying we're on the right path. Ultimatums and demands don't work in my situation. They push her further away. What I'm doing now is working. We're seeing progress. I'm okay with not having everything the way I want it YET. WW is realizing what she has. She's acknowledged that AP was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. She knows she isn't in love with him. She DOES love OBS (platonically). Which I'm sure is messing with all sorts of things in this situation. The PA is over. I've talked to my IC and several others and this kind of thing can take time. I don't need to rush it. I'm getting mostly what I want out of the marriage and getting more every day.

I really just don't understand why it has to be 100% of "correct" actions taken immediately or else it's a failure.

I really just don't understand why it has to be 100% of "correct" actions taken immediately or else it's a failure.

There have been a lot of threads on here by betrayed men who sucked it up, swallowed their pride, allowed their WW's to taper off their infidelity, tried to "nice" them back, only to find that, years later, they (the betrayed men) are seething with resentment over the fact that they made this giant investment and sacrifice, but the WW does not seem grateful nor appreciative.

There have been zero threads on here where a BH divorced his WW and later regretted it.

In other words, experience suggests that the path you are heading down will make you unhappy in the long run, and you will spend potentially years figuring that out. There have been a great many posters like you who disappear for a year or two or three (or 6) and come back here posting some version of "you guys were right".

We're trying to spare you that misery. Misery many of us personally endured because of making the same beginner mistakes you are making. Our hard-seeming advice comes from a place of love for a brother betrayed.

R generally only works if the WW is pleading for it, if she realizes it is a gift you are giving to her and appreciates it as such. It is a mantra here that "you can't nice them back".

My strongest advice would be to tell your WW that you are happy to see her in such a rich and fulfilling relationship with that woman who invited her to be a sister wife. You want nothing more than her long-term happiness and you want her to know that she's free to spend as much time with OBW, and AP, as she wishes. But not as your wife. You won't share her in that way. So you'll be taking steps to end the marriage in order to give her the freedom she is telling you, with her actions, that she desires.

Inkarnit,

I think what is going on in your thread is that you’re getting the typical advice for someone in your situation. That’s all any of us can do. So that typical advice would generally be to separate and divorce. That advice comes from the combined experience of everyone here. And also from love, even the harshest of post I would dare say.

I am a poker player. I’m considered very good. I live my life seeing the probability in every situation. My job uses statistics at a high level. I understand probability better than most. I agree with the majority of responses you have received. Your wife has not been and currently is not a safe partner to you. You think she has improved recently. That she is heading in the right direction. I would bet a sizable amount of money that that is not the case. Rather she has gotten better at deceiving you. I don’t want that to be the case. But I know from personal experience and from years of research on this subject like everyone else here, that that is the most likely scenario. Now you could still be right and everyone here is wrong. That is possible. But I have read your story played out by men and women over the years that, frankly, they all blend together. I hope you are right and we are wrong. I hope you are happy in your life. We all deserve that don’t we? Good luck.

Inkarnit, You've been hit with a ton of advice that runs the full spectrum. Please don't be offended by any of it. I was given both very harsh advice and very thoughtful, encouraging advice.

My situation was EA that never made it to PA. The advice is the same though and I will tell you one thing - Until you put the hammer down and prepare to D and put the D process in motion, you will never, EVER know where you truly stand. It took me 2 DDays (the second was more of a misunderstanding than a DDay) to go nuclear and that completely changed the landscape of my marriage. R has been very slow but deliberate. I'm not saying it is the be all end all, but it is something you should keep on the table for sure.

Inkarnit I would know that you have become frustrated with the forum at times, but would encourage you to continue to post. Many people want to demand that the wayward spouse do something and make ultimatums. The problem is you can't control the other person and will tire of being their jailor. In the end you usually end up ending the relationship.

I think you have showed some that there is more than one way to proceed and while it may not be for everybody, it may be for others. You know your wife and family better than anyone here and you seem to be proceeding with your eyes wide open. All of your options are still available to you, so I encourage to continue with the arduous task ahead of you.

I pray that with counseling and time, she will see the damage that she has caused. Hopefully this will lead to a stronger relationship moving forward. Chin up my friend.