SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

It's not really about there being more than one way to proceed. It's about what you end up with. Not naming names, but we've seen quite a number in Reconciliation who have basically placated and cajoled the WS into compliance. But what they end up with is a WS who can't (or won't) empathize with their feelings and who don't really understand the injury they've done.

When you allow blame-shifting, you allow the WS to continue believing in whatever justifications they made up in their heads. The thought process, no doubt, is "we can address that later after the crisis has passed". But what most people find out is that "after the crisis has passed", there's no more impetus for change. IOW, the BS doesn't get their turn to have the pain and injury addressed, nor do they get their concerns about possible reoffending assuaged. After the dust has settled, the only way to get those things back on the table is to stir the dust back up. IOW, you're right back at the beginning and having to threaten divorce in order to be taken seriously.

So yeah, you can do what you want. We're just telling you what the results are likely to be. In my last post, I shared with you that it really made me sick to watch my WH tell lies. It brought me right back to the injury and to the gaslighting I endured. Something like that really does affect your long-term feelings going forward, knowing how casually your partner can lie and betray. It makes it really difficult to overcome a BS's loss of respect for the WS, and you end up feeling like they haven't learned anything at all after everything they've put you through. If R is on your terms, you can call them to the carpet on it. If it's on theirs though, the best you can hope for is that when you bring it up in your next session of MC, your counselor backs you up. You've got a 50/50 shot that you'll get your MC's support, right? But without boundaries, you've got no impetus for insisting on change.

I get what you're trying to do, and you know what? It will most like work. You'll end up staying married. That's NOT a difficult path to take... until it's time to live with the results of it.

Krieger, I appreciate your viewpoint on it. I hadn't thought of the fact that it could benefit others to know what I'm doing and going through, even though it's pretty much against the advice of most here.

Chamomile, I also appreciate your feedback as well. I know that you're trying to help. I just don't think that your advice will work in my situation. Or rather, it could work at the detriment of my marriage. And I think my marriage can be saved without negative long-term results.

Currently, we are in a decent place. While I'd love for all contact with AP to cease, it's been reduced to online only intervention. I no longer question whether she wants to remain in the marriage. I know she does. She knows I still want NC established and MC to begin. I think MC will help with establishing NC once she hears the necessity from a professional rather than just from me. WW would happily continue our marriage and sweep this under the rug. I won't let that happen. I know the underlying problems need to be addressed. But I also know the part I played in our past marital issues and I've already corrected those things. I was complacent and stopped trying. That doesn't make her actions my fault and doesn't make her actions justified, but it helped get her to a place where she stopped feeling like she had something to lose. She is going to have to address what is broken inside her to make the decisions she made, but I have already fixed my end of things. At this point, she's seen that for 2 months solid. She has reaffirmed her love for me, we have re established intimacy to a point we never had before, and we are more open and communicative about what we both need than ever before.

It's sad that this was the impetus of change for our marriage and I'm not saying we're out of the woods yet, but I feel more hopeful about my marriage right now than during the past few years, even before there was an A going on.

I think MC will help with establishing NC once she hears the necessity from a professional rather than just from me

Don’t assume that the MC will know how to treat infidelity. A lot of them use the unmet needs model and place as much blame on the betrayed spouse as the wayward and advocate rug sweeping. Have you vetted them? Are they versed in treating infidelity?

[This message edited by asc1226 at 6:19 PM, May 3rd (Monday)]

You think your wife is special and different. She isn't.

You say you won't rugsweep but by having sex and doing the pick me dance, which you absolutely are by making changes of her complaints you are rugsweeping.

Until NC is established and fully implacable for a period of time she is still actively in her A.

Allowing her to keep headspace for the OM is you sending a message that she can co to use her A.

I really hope you get through this but after 12 plus years of being here I have not once seen R be successful in q situation where the A is allowed to continue. In 100% of cases the BS comes back 6-12 months later and starts a thread titled "I wish I listened" or "You guys were right".

Inkarnit, no one here wants to see you fail or say “I told you so.” That’s why everyone is getting on your case about how you’re handling this situation.

If you accept her friendship with the other man, if you don’t put the onus squarely on her shoulders to fix the damage that’s been done to your marriage, you might still be married but you’re not reconciled and you’re certainly not out of infidelity.

And don’t think that this renewed “intimacy” is going to last forever. Google hysterical bonding. It’s also fairly common (from the thousands of posts I’ve seen on this board” for cheating wives to use sex as a way to lull their husbands into complacency. It’s sad how well that seems work on men who are feeling insecure and emasculated by their wives affair.

Dear Friend,

Please read and reread Tushnurse latest post for your survival. She is absolutely correct in her assessment.

Best,

Bigheart

I'm a little confused on where I said I was accepting her friendship with AP. There is no part of her that thinks I'm okay with her maintaining any relationship with him. As such, she has eliminated all in person contact with him. I'm still not okay with the virtual contact with him but I'm okay with doing it in steps.

And when I talk of intimacy I'm not just referring to sex. We're more intimate with each other in every way right now. In conversations, actions, and in bed. Sure, she could be placating me, but I'm not in a hurry for final resolution here. It can take some time.

As for the MC, yes I've specifically looked into MC that specialize in infidelity. I didn't just pick someone at random. My own IC recommended a few people for me to look into and then I researched from there.

If your wife is still talking to her AP, then she's still friends with him then he is still a part of your lives and a part of your marriage.

As I and others have told you, completely cutting contact with her AP and his wife is the absolute bare minimum necessary to save your marriage... that would be the small step in the right direction.

All you are doing at the moment is rearranging the furniture and picking out new carpets while the termites in your basement destroy your home at its foundation.

I'm still not okay with the virtual contact with him

The affair is active as long as she keeps talking to him. Of course she says she wants to stay in the marriage, she is still getting you and able to be in contact with her boyfriend. So maybe you are more ok with the contact than you realize, otherwise you wouldn't allow it.

[This message edited by scaredwoman at 2:17 PM, May 4th (Tuesday)]

I'm a little confused on where I said I was accepting her friendship with AP. There is no part of her that thinks I'm okay with her maintaining any relationship with him. As such, she has eliminated all in person contact with him. I'm still not okay with the virtual contact with him but I'm okay with doing it in steps.

When you say you are not okay with something, yet your actions are doing exactly the opposite, why would your WW believe your words?

Your words have no authority, meaning, or consequence to her, because you are not backing them with action.

It really is that simple, my friend. I wish it could be different, but what we wish and what is reality are often a far cry apart.

Currently, we are in a decent place. While I'd love for all contact with AP to cease, it's been reduced to online only intervention.

There is no part of her that thinks I'm okay with her maintaining any relationship with him. As such, she has eliminated all in person contact with him. I'm still not okay with the virtual contact with him but I'm okay with doing it in steps.

I do not get it. Why is there ANY contact with the POSOM?

You seem awfully forgiving about her behaviour.

I'm a little confused on where I said I was accepting her friendship with AP. There is no part of her that thinks I'm okay with her maintaining any relationship with him. ... I'm still not okay with the virtual contact with him but I'm okay with doing it in steps.

So your pain at hearing her talk to him is ok to her?

If you are being honest an "Intimate" now, then what does she say when you voice the pain this online talking is causing you?

My own IC recommended a few people for me to look into

Yeah. What does your IC say about your WW and her affair? What does he say about how you are handling it?

Did he tell you that if you try real hard, you can stop your wife from cheating?

That if you become the perfect spouse and stay that way, she will be faithful?

I am imagining your IC is telling you to hold onto things you love, which is probably the wrong response. Things you love should love you back in some small way. What is your wife giving you besides sex that she didn't give this other guy?

Why was it so easy for her to replace you in her heart? If it was just ignoring her, then when she had her affair, should you have had an affair too? Then every time you want to have a disagreement with your wife, instead you go have an affair.

I would recommend you try to solve some of the problems of the others on here and you will see how your situation is the same, but you give different advice. Give it a shot!

I have to reply again because you seem to have more issues than you are saying and I want to try to help.

So, answer these questions please:

-When was the last time you told your wife she had to do something or she would lose you?

-What was that?

-If you never told her that, then what would make you decide to leave the marriage?

-When is the last time you yelled at someone? (This is because I think you have a severe issue with confrontation)

-When is the last time you demanded better service or tried to negotiate? Did you get a good deal or the same deal and service after your complaint?

-When is the last time you made your children face a consequence?

-When is the last time you made another person in your life face a consequence? (You didn't even seem to stop being friends with the guy, even though he was sleeping with your wife.)

-When is the last time you felt angry?

-In 1 day, how many times do you sacrifice your happiness for others? This includes your children.

Take that list and review it. Maybe find a friend of yours who is more confident and show him it. See what he thinks. Listen to his advice or take it to your IC. You can't passive and nice yourself to what you want.

You keep thinking if you are nice enough, people will be nice back.

Do you think your wife respects you?

Do you respect yourself?

Just some hard questions that reveal that you are probably afraid of people being mad at you. You are probably a people pleaser in the extreme. That works, but my last friend who was like that, he waited until his kids were out of the house, then he divorced his wife. He kind of had a nervous break down and midlife crisis at the same time. Now he is living in the extremes, which when you are in your 40s can kind of kill you, if you aren't careful.

Maybe consider learning from my friend's story and think about what you really want. It shouldn't involve your wife or your kids. What do you want? When your kids are grown up, your wife leaves you, then what do you see yourself doing? That is the last leg of the race of life. How do you see yourself spending it?

You should go that way. Start preparing for it. Start being selfish trying to get it. Don't hurt people or leave their lives, but live yours sometimes.

It can take some time

Not really. If she is committed to R it should take her 1 hot second to go completely NC with the OM.

Inkart, genuine question: What is stopping you from going to your WW right now and telling her you want her to stop talking to OM online? I'm not talking S or D or even consequences right now. I simply want to know why you don't tell her that you want it to stop and say that the future of R with her depends on it.

We see plenty of BS who are not ready to D even as the A continues but very rarely do we see someone so uncomfortable with asking for what they need. Is it fear? Are you afraid that your WW will cut and run if you make your want for NC clear? Are you afraid of conflict? What's holding you back from a firm conversation?

I’d respectfully disagree that her talking to OBS is OK. Garbage friends allow friends to do bad things, it takes a really bad person to encourage it. She’s not a good person to have in your life and your marriage will be worse off for having her in it, even if it means a short-term set back.

And when I talk of intimacy I'm not just referring to sex. We're more intimate with each other in every way right now.

You may be intimate with her. But she's nothing more than polyamorous with you. And you're accepting it.

Every time your wife has contact with the AP — think of it like she’s stabbing you. Again. And again.

She’s choosing to disrespect you. She’s choosing to put her feelings first and disregard yours.

She’s continuing to make you bleed.

How does this:

I'm a little confused on where I said I was accepting her friendship with AP. There is no part of her that thinks I'm okay with her maintaining any relationship with him.

and this:

I'm still not okay with the virtual contact with him but I'm okay with doing it in steps.

.........make it into the same sentence?

OP, please read your own words!

You don't want to tell your wife to stop talking to her boyfriend because you're afraid she will get upset and leave you.

Just read that sentence over and over again until you realize how crazy it is.