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First off, I looked online and in your state it says standard visitation is every other weekend. And the other parent can have the child on Wed evening 3-6 I think. Just bc he doesn’t want to drive over on Wed, doesn’t mean you have to give up your weekend with your child. Every other weekend is YOUR downtime with your child, btw.,Call your atty and ask how much it will cost to change your orders to the state standard. If it’s not specified in your D decree, then ask the atty how to switch it up to every other weekend.

99lawdig99 my divorce decree states no physical or verbal arguments around the minor children-standard in SC.

[This message edited by homewrecked2011 at 11:28 AM, February 22nd (Monday)]

oh my god, this is unbelievable. She never said anything about an abusive situation. you people are unreal

I think its more that she doesnt want to go there because it is stressing her out and impacting her.She has told me it happens every weekend and when it happens all she does is lay on her bed and cry. She isn't even allowed to call or text me because her father restricts that use.

Tell me how this doesn't sound emotionally damaging.

homewrecked2011

it's sad that that kind of language has to be put in an agreement. It should be presumed what should occur.

Maybe take this outside and just punch it out in PM's? Think that would maybe benefit the OP more...

Tell me how this doesn't sound emotionally damaging.

simple, trying reading it. It doesn't say it. Period. You stated that there was emotional abuse. where? you are not helping her by projecting your situation on to everyone else. It's not all about you, it's about what is best for her child.

She has told me it happens every weekend and when it happens all she does is lay on her bed and cry.

This is the part I would have bolded. Lawdog, I know you have all this legal experience and knowledge. As a registered nurse, mother and daughter I can tell you that it is not normal to lay on your bed and cry every single weekend. And while you may not consider that abuse, I promise you it is emotionally damaging to be repeatedly subjected to an environment that causes you to lay on your bed and cry every weekend and in which you have no power.

She isn't even allowed to call or text me because her father restricts that use.

I take issue with the above. She should be able to contact you anytime she feels the need to. She probably feels trapped over there.

HFSSC

Do you really believe that all she does from Friday after school til Sunday afternoon is just sit on her bed and cry? Come on your smarter than that. Kids are very smart, if they don't want to do something they will make sure you know it. who knows if this is her way of showing her father that she doesn't want to be there? we don't know but to have these women automatically start throwing around the words abusive environment or situation is sickening.

I've been doing this for over 30 years and I see how kids play one parent against another and how parents use their kids. I'm not saying that is what is happening here but to just start assuming abuse when the mother never even said that is sad.

The bottom line is yea this kid may be saying these things to her mother but you as parents always take things with a grain of salt as kids will always make things out to be mostly in their favor. Does she want to be with her father every weekend , NO. Does she have ot go with him, Yes. That is why something has to be worked out. the every weekend is bull. it should be every other weekend in order for Mon to have some time with her and not during the week when she is probably working and the girl is at school.

It's not about the mother and it's not about the father, it's about the child. and it is always hoped that the parents can act like adults and work things out so that the kid doesn't wind up in therapy but alas they rarely happens.

Bottom line, is none of us knows what is going on and it is wrong to start projecting your own situations on to others. it will not help. Mom seems to be on the right path. get the therapist involved with the father and work something out that everyone can live with. but if you just start letting an 11 year old dictate what they can and cannot do, you are asking for trouble in the future. just look at the mess the world is in know. it's because you have a bunch of 20 year olds thinking they know everything because when they were growing up, no one ever told them to behave. every time they took a crap their mothers told them how great they were. noone held anyone accountable and let them do what they wanted.My kid is 30 years old and is looking to retire soon. he is making more money that he knows what to do with and he is a genius. When he was growing up, every time he screwed up, I pointed it out and showed him what the consequences were. I also told him he is not entitled to anything and the world doesn't owe him anything. if he wants something work for it and treat others like you want to be treated. today he is the nicest and most generous person I know who is going to be a millionare in a few years. I compare him to those soccer mom babys who demand everything be given to the and were always told how special they were. guess what, your not that special and you are no better than anyone else. we are all in this together. so get along with everyone and treat people well. end of story

end of lecture.

Im sorry I dont remember how to cut and paste so I will just have to remember the responses and hope I get to everyone.

Crazy- I have issues with her not being able to talk to me also but that is a battle I have been fighting for years now. He says its because he doesnt want them on electronics, but even before she had her own phone I had to always call him or text him to ask to speak to her.

I do think it is having an impact on her, even though she is not the one who is directly being yelled at. She has had physical complaints like headaches and stomachaches and does not sleep when she is there. When she comes home she is super clingy to me and wants to sleep in my bed constantly.

My relationship with his wife is complicated at best. Those of you who remember me from the past may remember me talking about when XH began dating my former best friend....that is his wife now. She and I don't speak unless its a quick text conversation about sending something back to their house. So she is not really an option unfortunately.

Alyssa, I think you are on the right track with getting her into IC and giving her safe space to voice her thoughts and feelings. Hopefully the IC can help you navigate this situation in a way that works for everyone. I was a little younger than your daughter when I asked for every other weekend too. I don't think that's a bad thing - you and her should have some time together that isn't a school/work day.

I will just add that imho, it is important that you give her a voice in this and that she knows that her feelings are valid (which it definitely sounds like you're doing for her), and that she feels some level of control over her own life. I'm not familiar with your history but depending on how old she was during the divorce, that can make kids feel very powerless and helpless around their own lives. Getting her into IC and allowing her to have a voice and some measure of control of her time is a huge way to help counter-balance that feeling of helplessness. Hopefully her dad will be on board with that too.

Thank you Ellie. I hope so too. I am so proud of her for talking to me about it and hope that she will continue doing so. I also hope that the IC will be able to help her and my XH if he goes too. My fear is that he won't go or will but won't really make any effort to change his part. When I asked him about it he was quick to blame it on his wifes son saying its just because he doesnt listen to him or respect him. I know I can't change or control his behavior but just need to focus on DD. Its so hard.

Lawdog, I don’t believe she is laying in bed and crying for the entire weekend and I’m pretty sure Alyssa never said that, nor did I. What she said and I repeated is that this happens every weekend. And yes, I believe it happens every weekend. And I believe that is emotionally damaging.

I remember Alyssa from when she posted in Wayward and had previous knowledge of the situation that you didn’t.

When my son refused to go I made him go, as per the advice of my attorney. I made him go until it basically would've required serious manhandling and risking injury to him to force him - like it was down to forcing him into a vehicle that he was actively trying to escape from. And by 12 my son was already a big kid, so it just wasn't doable. I even had to video tape that kind of melee - to show the judge I was doing everything in my power to encourage the visitation. We also had joint custody. My ex is a lawyer so he was pulling out all the stops - threatening to have me jailed for contempt if my son didn't get to a visitation, etc.

I put my boy in IC, both so he was supported, but also for the court - so they could see I'd made a good faith effort and the therapist could vouch for the fact that I wasn't a factor in my son's resistance.

My ex even called the police on my son when he wouldn't go and the police were actually great - they refused to force him and could clearly see something wasn't right at dad's place. It was very validating for my son.

It was torture seeing my boy in so much anguish but I had to play by the rules so that I could go back to court with a strong case. I think it took about a year, maybe less.

The judge was great - I mean she put me through my paces but ultimately she took away all of my ex's visitation and said my son could go when he chose to, and the minute he wanted to leave, day or night, my ex must release him to me. My son wouldn't go over there for a year after that. Then it was a few times a year for a night or two.

I do not subscribe to the narrative that children are manipulative and trying to dictate....children have anxiety and resistance when something is going on that causes anxiety and resistance. Happy kids don't manipulate - distressed kids resist because they are in pain.

I would put get a lawyer and see about putting in for a modification. Children aren't property. Parents who are flexible and understanding about preferences have way stronger relationships with their kids. Your ex is likely shooting himself in the foot as eventually he won't be able to force her to go with him.

I never badmouthed my ex, as I'm sure you don't either. I validated my son's feelings and let him know that we had to listen to the judge but that I would do everything in my power to make sure he was heard. I also told him how much his dad loved him and wanted to see him (though it killed me because he loved him like a piece of property with no regard for his emotional well-being). Basically, I refused to invalidate the legitimacy of my son's feelings without fanning the flames.

I would've loved nothing more than for my son to love spending half his life at his dad's. I'm all about my free time. His dad was a dick and he was emotional and at times physically abusive and something had to change. Although, I will say the physical abuse didn't factor in heavily because short of hospital records documenting broken bones and cigarette burns that's a really tough argument to win.

Ultimately, though, it wasn't about the reason why my son didn't want to go - that's not what made the decision for the judge. It was just that he didn't want to go and forcing him was causing too much distress.

[This message edited by skeetermooch at 7:03 PM, February 22nd (Monday)]

My relationship with his wife is complicated at best. Those of you who remember me from the past may remember me talking about when XH began dating my former best friend....that is his wife now. She and I don't speak unless its a quick text conversation about sending something back to their house. So she is not really an option unfortunately.

I would communicate with Satan if my child’s well-being required me to. I’m not suggesting you two go get coffee and chit-chat. It’s about your child’s well-being. You could even get your points across in an email that you are certain reaches both your ex and his wife.

I get what 99lawdog99 is saying and it’s a valid legal concern he brings up:

Children can be manipulative, and they generally have a very rich imagination. Not saying this is what’s going on here. Let’s even assume everything your daughter says and does is 100% true. But this is how the “System” (court, CPS, social services etc) is likely to respond if your husband were to demand she visit:

They see it as his right to have her and the first steps they will make are to ensure his rights. They will look into if there is alienation of affection or any undue pressure from your half that is causing this situation. It’s highly unlikely the “System” will simply take your daughter at face value but require a series of sessions, home-evaluations and so on and so on. It’s a real pain, and it won’t be limited to her fathers household and how she experiences that household.

I think it can be tremendously to your advantage to have a traceable path showing you pointed out the issue and asked for and offered collaboration with her fathers’ family to fix this issue.

Bigger,

I definitely do intend to do something about it I was just trying to explain why talking to his wife about it is not the best idea. All of the communicating is done between him and I, she and I will only talk every so often about minor things.

I do understand what lawdog and others are trying to say about his rights and the potential of disgruntled parents. I assure you all that is not the case. I am never negative about or towards XH or his W and when my daughter tells me things.

I would actually like to think that she is exaggerating or making things up because that would actually be easier to deal with, rather than the emotional problems I believe she really is experiencing.

I am going to document and keep track of everything she continues to tell me and keep her IC informed as well. I am hoping that the IC will be able to help me as well!

Also I forgot to add that both he and his W are difficult to communicate with and I know that if I were to try to have the conversation with her it would not go well.

My daughter gave me more information this morning randomly which is also making me question what is happening there.

Alyssa, can you elaborate on the new information?. It might help us to give you advice if we knew what else is going on. Just know that we are in your corner and rooting for your daughter!

I am a little late to the discussion...

She isn't even allowed to call or text me because her father restricts that use.

I 100% agree with crazyblindsided on this one. She should be allowed to speak to you whenever she wants to do so. I understand (sort of) the desire to keep her off of electronics, but that desire is very different than "you can't talk to Mom."

It's explicitly part of my parenting agreement that neither parent should interfere with communications between any child and the other parent.

Luckily she is in IC and has shared all this with the therapist who has suggested having XH come to a session at some point.

I think this is a good idea for sure.

I did a quick google search on divorce/custody laws for Massachusetts and it seems like there is no defined age for taking into account the child's age for preference for custody.

My sense is that you could go to court and successfully argue that these visits are harmful and that they need to stop. I don't think that's the optimal solution... I would say the optimal solution would be to get your ex to listen to reason (somehow) and make your daughter's weekends enjoyable.

I'm sorry. This is such a difficult spot to be in. You want your daughter happy and you want your daughter to have a great relationship with her father... and those two desires don't seem possible at the same time.

[This message edited by barcher144 at 7:23 AM, February 24th (Wednesday)]

That optimal solution would definitely be to talk it over with him and have him really get it. But I agree it likely will never happen.

So this morning my DD and I were chatting and she mentioned something about her dads house....something totally random like where they keep something in the kitchen. She asked if I get mad or upset when she talks about Dads house and I said absolutely not because its Dad and part of her family. I then asked why and she said because Dad gets mad when she talks about me at his house and there is a rule that she and his stepson ( the W son) are not allowed to talk about their other parents or houses.

According to DD at first it was just a rule for the stepbrother but then he said it wasn't fair so they made it a rule for both kids. At least now they are screwing them up equally?

I asked her how that made her feel and she said sad. Then she began to cry and asked me not to tell my XH that she told me because then he will be mad at her.

To me this is extremely upsetting and damaging to my daughter. I am still actually trying to process it but have already let the IC know, and am hoping she can offer some support