SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

"If your pride is of more value to you than the woman you CLAIMED to love, she's better off without you"????

I've read some horrible comments on here over the years but this one takes the cake.

Look in the mirror as you are trying to shame him.

Questioning his love for her??

Of course he loves her, but sometimes, love isn't enough. So in your "burn the witch" mentality his struggle is his "pride"???

I guess his struggle has NOTHING to do with his doubts of her being a safe partner after all the things SHE HAS DONE to show him that she hasn't been a safe partner?

So his "pride" is in the way?

And if he can't see this in your mind "she's better off without you"???

MrF, this is YOUR life!!!

You and only you control what you want to do. People on here can offer wisdom from their experiences, and what they would do in your situation, but at the end of the day you are the Captain of your own ship and you get to decide which direction you want to go.

NO NEED TO BE SORRY ABOUT ANYTHING and get this notion of letting people down out of your mind. Again it's YOUR life and you (and you alone) have to live with the consequences.

If you decide to divorce who's to say that the two of you couldn't potentially start over again in the future after your heart and mind are in agreement that she's shown you over time by her actions that she could be a safe partner.

If you decide to R that's OK as well. As others have said though, in order to do this, you'll need to have the truth, and moving forward with the poly will help with that. If she passes it will help with a possible R now or in the future.

We all know how hard this and doubting every move we make (or are about to make).

Do NOT let anyone on here SHAME you or try to guilt you into a decision. Whatever you decide to do please know that your wife will not be "better off without you" if you part ways as she will have to live with blowing up her world by her own actions.

Hang in there and please know that there are many on here who will support you no matter what you decide.

Mr. F (and others)

Please re read my corrected post:

ount to ten. Get poly. go to IC and MC.

You are here now, only once. DEFCON 4 and you hold all the missiles. You can nuke everything later.

Divorce sucks. You may or may not use that option. If you do, I and many others can tell you, it is not a cake walk, family-wise, financial-wise, children-wise.

Take your time. Know everything you can about her, her actions and most importantly about yourself.

What do you expect her to do? She lied and left to her own dumbass devices she lied to protect lies. Why? maybe to save the marriage? Fear?

Empathy can flow both ways. Maybe the Golden Rule applies here?

You cannot get UNdivorced.(typo here, big one)

Your appear to be all over the spectrum here. Patience. Learn. Understand. Make a choice of action and avoid reaction to emotional injuries.

(you may learn things that force divorce or you may learn you WW made some really dumb choices she regrets)

I have read others response and am sorry for the confusion, and can understand their responses.

You can get divorced anytime. Today, next year, 5 years. Just know all you can before you make the choice.

Betrayal sucks, I have been there and divorced and haven't divorced. It just plain ass sucks. The 'golden rule' could serve you well here. None of what I am saying means you should over look anything you WW has done.

And if you can't do that, if your pride is of more value to you than the woman you claimed to love, she's better off without you.

This is the single dumbest thing I have ever seen anyone write on this website, and that's saying something.

Pride? Do you mean dignity and self-respect? Valuing anyone above your self-respect is a sure way to guarantee they'll trample all over you, as his WW already has.

This website lives in complete la la land sometimes.

Claimed to love? What the f***?

This is gaslighting. It's the same gaslighting a WS would engage in. "BUT IF YOU LOVED ME WE COULD GET THROUGH IT."

Unbelievable. What a completely toxic, misandry-filled point of view. I hope you take some time to examine what the hell compelled you to write something so ridiculous.

[This message edited by Dignitas at 7:45 AM, March 16th (Tuesday)]

The word "love" gets thrown around a lot. It takes more than love to make a marriage work. Loyalty, honesty, integrity, fidelity, patience, commitment... all those things are just as important. Love is just the glue that holds all the pieces together. When none of those pieces exist, all you have is a shapeless blob of love glue, which is worthless in and of itself.

At this point, Mr. Flibbles self-worth and integrity are what he needs to focus on saving more than his marriage, because she is going to fuck him over again and when she does he needs to have his self-worth intact... because that is all he will have left in the end.

I think CT’s much-quoted sentence is being taken out of context and needs to be read with what is written before it in the paragraph. Even then it’s firm – but IMHO not any worse than a lot that’s already been posted on this thread.

I find it rich that a poster who seems to take offense on that comment already has over 10 posts on this thread, and in several of those posts implies the OP is morally and/or ethically weak for even considering reconciling…

I have stated this before: The reason I haven’t contributed much on this thread is because I think divorcing with the intent of the D facilitating reconciliation isn’t sensible, and that has been what MrFibble has been gunning for. I admit that my opinion is exactly that: my opinion and not worth more or less than other opinions. I also admit that one reason I pulled away was there is a contributor here on this thread that says he saved his marriage by doing exactly what I think wouldn’t work. I have no reason whatsoever to doubt that poster so if that was what MrFibble wanted then he should listen to that poster.

MrFibble – For me the focus shouldn’t be on R or D. It should be getting out of infidelity. If right now you aren’t convinced you want to D then that’s OK… Maybe we can guide you to where EITHER your WW meets the requirements to R OR you realize that what you want and what you need might not go hand-in-hand. As is I think too many are focused on having you reach their decision and then forcing it down your throat – be it R or D.

I find it rich that a poster who seems to take offense on that comment already has over 10 posts on this thread, and in several of those posts implies the OP is morally and/or ethically weak for even considering reconciling…

That is a below elementary school level reading of my contributions to this thread, but I'm glad you've brought up my post history because if you actually go through it on this thread I look more or less like a seer. I stand by everything I've said so far.

I think CT’s much-quoted sentence is being taken out of context and needs to be read with what is written before it in the paragraph. Even then it’s firm – but IMHO not any worse than a lot that’s already been posted on this thread.

The context only reinforces my point that the poster is/was engaging in the same sort of "if you really loved me we could get through this" gaslighting that many BS here have experienced, which explains the vehement reaction.

To quote myself from two weeks ago:

If you start a cycle of yo-yoing between being on the outs and faux happiness from rug-sweeping, you're going to be in for a really shitty time.

YOU ARE HERE. You still need to:

Drill down into some decision criteria.

What outcome, 5 years from now, if I could guarantee it to you, would make you divorce her right now?

What outcome, 5 years from now, if I could guarantee it to you, would make you decide to try to reconcile?

What are the risks and potential pitfalls of each one? If you choose D, what steps will you need to take to improve your life and your kids’ lives. If you stay, what does your wife need to do to help you heal?

Etc etc etc

What is your investment thesis with this woman? What chances do you think your investment has of appreciating?

[This message edited by Dignitas at 9:30 AM, March 16th (Tuesday)]

Mr Fibble

Whether you are rich or poor tall or short manly or womanly strong or weak what the fk do we know . We will take your word for it .

Whether she is a craven pathetic loser or a somehow a wonderful partner who just made 100 hideous decisions to value sex with another man over your love for her ... iil take your word for that too .

Dont let the crowd sway whatever is in your heart but do let a shrink help you determine whats healthy for you - not the marriage - not her not even the pension - but just you .

Other people can only tell you what led us to our decisions . You are under no obligation to fulfill our advice or to be on our timeline . You dont owe us anything .

And for the record men and women are both equally entitled to self pride just not vain glory . Id tell you what id tell any woman here , you are enough , focus on yourself , dont accept disrespect , dont be afraid to be alone You deserve alot better than this . You are with a manipulative trickster ,learn to unlove this viper . It will take years ( at best ) for her to stop hurting you . Protect yourself.

More people are pro D than R here , that doesnt mean the majority is wiser but it means you will be encouraged more in one direction . If you decide to go in the other direction move to Reconciliation where the tone is gentler .

The R at all costs brigade sure showed up...

Lose a cheater, gain a life. Losing a cheating wife is a net gain. It is entirely possible to love her and still have to divorce her for what she did. Pride is a good, healthy emotion that compels good people to do good things just as it can compel bad people to do bad things. There is nothing wrong with listening to your pride, your honor, your gut, or whatever else speaks to you.

OP, you know you and the only person looking you in the mirror is you. You do what is right for you, not her and not someone on the internet.

I would still poly her just for closure...

If anything Mr. Fibble has shown the ability to thoughtfully take the words that speak to him and ignore the others where ever he's been on this journey. He's the one that is living with this mess his wayward created and will be the one whose family will live with the consequences. He also knows all the missing details. Hearing only one side is counterproductive.

From what he's written from DDay2 its the TT lies more than the added disclosures that's made him decide to take R off the table. That's ok and his call. The TT should not come to a surprise to anyone here as waywards are broken and selfish in the midst of the A. It usually takes months to a year to unwind that mindset. In this respect his WW was right on schedule for another confession.

Whether it's the last one is unknown at this point, but there's likely more. There always is. Whether they are minor details that are uncomfortable for WW to admit, something she didn't think mattered, or something more major and damning we won't have a better idea unless a poly gives more clarity. I'd give her that chance even if R is off the table. At least then you'll have a better idea if all the cards are on the table or not. Whether she fails or not, it will give them both more closure. Either way there's nothing left to prove.

There's nothing left to do besides moving his WW to an apartment and let them start living the divorced life. Her latest TT broke any chance of immediate R. At this point they need that to be able to move forward. Mr. Fibble has said it is permanent in his mind at this point. I don't think CT is wrong is suggesting he consider his reasoning, but I wouldn't call that pride. It's the pain and anger of the additional betrayal of the TT that reopened his wounds.

Mr F. has also said he doesn't think the poly results matter. I do. If nothing else, if the ww passes it will help him clarify in his mind that what she did so far was enough. It will remove any 2nd guessing or what ifs when the pain of the TT subsides. It will also explicitly let his WW know the same. That what she admitted to was enough to end their relationship. Of course failure would do the same.

Personally, I'd push this off till the fall. There's no hurry and they have enough to do handling the separation, divorce, and settling the kids into the new co-parent reality. It will also allow them both more time to detach more emotionally. Maybe at that point it really will be a moot point.

[This message edited by grubs at 9:55 AM, March 16th (Tuesday)]

I think CT’s much-quoted sentence is being taken out of context and needs to be read with what is written before it in the paragraph. 

No, it wasn't taken out of context. It is what it is. It is gaslighting to try make it look other than what it is. Yet, I suppose this is o.k. because OP is man and not a woman. Let's reverse the genders and see what happens. I highly doubt THIS would be told to a woman: And if you can't do that, if your pride is of more value to you than the man you claimed to love, he's better off without you.

If this was said to a betrayed woman by a man the female empowerment crowd would lynch him. You know, the usual "you go girl". Do whatever is good for you. It is a shame that this bigotry is supported by the website's stuff. Makes it even worse. The poster should have been called out not defended. The fact that even men have internalized this misandry is beyond disgusting. Seems it it has become a national sport. Bash the man and save the world.

The context is very clear. Attributing his self respect and dignity to burn the witch culture is misandry. And as long she's the cheater and even if that's only his pride, he's better off without her, not her without him. Therefore, on top of that misandry, it is gaslighting.

Everyone can do whatever they want. Divorce, reconcile, seperate and reconcile, decide to reconcile than change their minds or divorce and than get back together. Why? Because it is a very personal issue. Those who shame and critisize the OP don't want to help you, they push an agenda. And according to their misandrist agenda, a man can maybe do this but he needs some shaming.

Mr. F, whatever you chose that is o.k. I am not here to tell you what to do but to call out the men haters. I think you handle this very well. If it is divorce by all means do this. If it is reconciliation by all means do this. If you wanted to try but changed your mind, it's none of anyone's business your terms, rules or boundaries, but by all means follow it. If people share their stories listen, to everyone, if they pass judgment and disrepect you, just see it for what it is and move on.

[This message edited by QuitOrNotToQuit at 10:38 AM, March 16th (Tuesday)]

Hey Fibs, you are getting a lot of varied advice here, and that is the whole point of this place. It isn't an echo chamber. It's a diverse community of hurt people, all trying to help through the lens of their personal trauma.

I think very few marriages R, but I certainly wish mine had. Sadly, that would have meant my WW would have needed to be an entirely different person.

You are just over the halfway mark o your narrative. The action is still rising, the conflict is still fleshing itself out and there is yet to be a climax. Most of us have been through our own narratives, and so we know what the last chapter will probably look like. Some of us probably have a pretty good feeling as to what yours will look like. My guess is that you do as well, at least on a subconscious level.

Getting the head and heart to work together is no small feat, even in normal life. Add to that personal trauma, and it is even more difficult. Poly or not, R or not, take immediate action or not, none of that is life or death. YOU set the agenda and timeframe, only you. You do what is best for you and when it is best.

There are some wise and experienced people on this board, but like me, they are deeply wounded from the trauma that was inflicted on them. We all speak through the hurt.

I think CT’s much-quoted sentence is being taken out of context and needs to be read with what is written before it in the paragraph.

Right. There was also the sentence in which she blames him,for his wife lying to him.

Now, that's off the table because your WW lied. But what did you really think was going to happen when you applied the kind of pressure on her that you did?

I know certain members are considered gold on here. That doesn't mean they get it right,every time.

[This message edited by HellFire at 11:25 AM, March 16th (Tuesday)]

And if you can't do that, if your pride is of more value to you than the woman you claimed to love, she's better off without you.

Here's some of what Karen Horney said about pride:

Genuine self-esteem is based on realistic attributes and accomplishments and is generally expressed with quiet dignity. Neurotic pride, on the other hand, is based on an idealized image of self and is usually loudly proclaimed in order to protect and support a glorified view of one's self.

Pride that is more valuable than the person one claims to love IS neurotic pride.

If that sort of pride is driving MrF, MrF's best bet is to stop letting it do the driving. If MrF decides instead to hold onto that type of pride, then I'm with CT. IMO that type of pride makes R impossible.

Frankly, I don't think you suffer from that sort of pride, MrF, but I do urge you to look inside and make sure. Not so BTW, I'm not talking about unhealthy pride coming up from time to time. Just don;t let it have much influence over your decision-making.

There's no need to worry about 'wavering', MrF. You're facing a decision that will effect your life for decades. You're facing a decision that will affects the lives of your loved ones for decades.

We're not trained to deal with infidelity. You can expect to thrash around a lot. It's normal to want contradictory things simultaneously. It's normal to want the impossible.

Right now you're in turmoil. Have faith in yourself to figure out what you want in the not too distant future. Have faith in yourself to decide what you'll actually do not very long after you figure out what you want.

*****

I certainly wish my W hadn't cheated, but, you know, my life is good even though she did. What I cared about most in the aftermath of d-day was the present and the future - would I be better off with my W or without her? My own calculus determined it would be better off with her, so I chose R, knowing that R could fail at any time.

My reco is this: start with what you want. If you want to be with your W, figure out if you want R primarily for healthy reasons or primarily for unhealthy reasons. If your desire for R is healthy, then figure out if she is a good enough candidate for R. Then decide.

One thing to remember is that R & D are binary choices, but the considerations that go into the decisions are not. My decision was R, 100%. My judgment was: around 75% healthy choice, around 80% probability of success.

*****

I am not sanguine about the probability of finding a new partner who will be faithful. There is a lot of cheating going on.

One can't control other people. One can't make another person faithful.

The best one can do is develop and maintain the 'genuine' self-esteem Horney talks about, which allows one to recover if one is betrayed.

*****

SI is about surviving and thriving for those who D and for those who R. Each of us gets to and has to get to our own resolution. What counts is for each individual to get to the best resolution for that person.

If one has to tie oneself into knots to accomplish one resolution or the other, it's probably the wrong choice.

D in order to R is, IMO, tying oneself into knots. No matter how amicable, D takes a lot of energy. No matter what, I believe no one can predict how an X will react when actually D'ed.

No matter what, D takes energy. If R is the goal, D is not on the direct path for the vast majority of people.

D'ing with the goal of R probably has worked - and probably will work again - for some people.

It makes much more sense to me, though, to work for R directly if you want R. It makes no sense to detour to D when one wants and expects R.

People can interpret words in different ways , I would feel very belittled if someone told me my pride was a shitty thing compared to the inherent nobility of loving my abuser .

I am on team man today , just because God didnt make him a woman its no excuse for people to kick him in the nuts .

Mr Fibble before we tear each other apart could you tell us how you took the original advice ? Last thing i would like to do is over react on my tibetan buddhism day.

Pride that is more valuable than the person one claims to love IS neurotic pride

Right, his wife's neurotic pride was more important to her than the person she claims to love, but she's the damsel in distress and he's the villain and abuser.

The good old misandry: if the man cheats, it's his fault and if the wife cheats it's his fault too.

Then, if needed let's project her neurotic behaviour and narcissism unto him, deny him common sense and feelings, describe it as neurotic pride because a man has none of them so it's must be pride and neurotic behavior

If that sort of pride is driving MrF, MrF's best bet is to stop letting it do the driving.

That sort of pride and neurotic behaviour is driving a cheater but let's attribute none existing problems to the men through mental projection, turn them to neurotic abusers and the real abuser to a victim.

Next step let's ask for a restraining order because the husband is dangerous and the wife is a victim. This is how the false allegation culture thrives

If MrF decides instead to hold onto that type of pride, then I'm with CT. IMO that type of pride makes R impossible

If the man doesn't comply with lies then let's support the damsel in distress because it's him denying reconciliation and not the cheater denying him some dignity

Classic misandrist gaslighting:

First step: let's deny the man basic humanity and choice

Second step: let's project her flows unto the husband

Third step: let's let him internalize the lies through gaslighting

Fourth Step: let's let him believe he's the abuser and she's the victim

Fifth step: let's side with the damsel and blame him for the failed reconciliation

I don't say he should reconcile or divorce but the dicision shouldn't be based on this mind fuckery

[This message edited by QuitOrNotToQuit at 1:08 PM, March 16th (Tuesday)]

Whether it's the last one is unknown at this point, but there's likely more. There always is.

Breaking up the conversation about blame shifting and shaming, this quote about trickle truth reminded me of how I found out last year that xWH had dated a woman without my knowledge back in 2007! Of course, it wasn't really trickle truth since HE never told me. But it was something I had not known until 13 years later.

SO and I were at an event with other people and a woman I'm acquainted with was telling the story of how I had approached her in 2007. I vaguely remember walking up to her and asking why her phone number was in my xWH's wallet. I don't really remember what her reply was but the anger in me at the time gave me balls!! So, last year as she was telling the story she admitted that they had dated briefly, and although I had suspected it no one had confirmed it. Of course, today it means nothing at all to me as I'm well beyond healed from xWH's toxic past life but I found it interesting that something STILL comes out at me!

Ok, carry on...

Mr. F, I hope you're taking this all in and doing what you feel is best for you. Despite what some may believe, your decisions have not shown "pride" but self-preservation. And that is what we all need to survive this hell called infidelity. Hugs.

I think CT’s much-quoted sentence is being taken out of context and needs to be read with what is written before it in the paragraph.

Exactly. Context matters.

Right now, you're angry, and justifiably so. But you told me once that you had every intention of honoring your commitment to R, that it wasn't a "maybe someday". You've said more than once that you love your WW. But here you are, not even interested in finding out whether she's telling you the truth about whether the EA became sexual or not. R can't work when we stand on pride. It demands empathy. It insists on connection. It requires that we bend rather than break. And if you can't do that, if your pride is of more value to you than the woman you claimed to love, she's better off without you. She'll cry for awhile, but eventually she will recover and move on. And you'll do the same. But THIS moment, the moment when you could have saved it... will be gone.

So, there it is in bold. In context, what I'm talking about is what it takes to R, and maybe that's unfamiliar territory to a bunch of people who either haven't tried it or who have had no success with it. Maybe that's the confusion. Who knows?

When one is dealing with an unrepentant or active cheater, pride is our friend. It lifts us up out of the mess. But pride is a double-edged sword because in R, it can stop us from reaffirming our connection with the WS. It can stop us from making and/or returning a "bid", which as defined by John Gottman is "the fundamental unit of emotional communication". Pride can keep us from leaning in "toward" our WS. It can keep us from allowing emotional vulnerability in ourselves or in our partner. It can even increase our pain by preventing us from from seeing larger context, leaving us focused like a laser on the details of the betrayal. In R, we don't throw away our pride, but we rein it in and make it serve us so that it bends without breaking. This allows us to insist on boundaries while also leaning in and allowing "bids" and vulnerability.

I do believe though that if the OP no longer loves his wife, she's better off without him. I don't subscribe to punishing repentant cheaters. You can't hurt someone you love without hurting yourself. A truly repentant cheater knows that. They've lived it. So, if there's no love left there, he can let her go without guilt or remorse because even though she'll cry for awhile, she's moving on to a better life. There's not much worse in this world than to be chained in marriage to someone who doesn't love you.

Pride is also good.

Pride can keep you from letting someone shit on you over and over again, from gaslighting you, from continuously disloyal behavior.

So you can live your life able to look in the mirror. So you can have mental health and not have to worry what the one you're supposed to trust the most is doing.

So you're not experiencing mind-movies, haunted by the lies and obvious gaps in her "story."

***

But you told me once that you had every intention of honoring your commitment to R, that it wasn't a "maybe someday".

You've got the onus all backwards Chamomile Tea. The onus is on his wife to be "truly repentant" and honor her word the way he has been honoring his word.

THERE IS NOTHING to suggest Mrs. F is "truly repentant"

Mr. F was honoring his commitment to reconciliation - it was his wife who was in no way honoring hers.

At no point has Mr F's cheating wife been honoring her commitments: not as a wife (by cheating) nor afterwards as a candidate for reconciliation. She has broken every promise, told every lie, protected herself at all costs - to him. And yes, it is standard cheater stuff - so what?

But here you are trying to hold him to a standard he never agreed to. He agreed to maybe try and reconcile with his wife contingent upon 1) a divorce, and 2) her having told the full truth so he can decide if reconciliation is even feasible.

She has not met the standards she agreed to, in order to "attempt to reconcile". Reconciliation is not a promise or a guarantee.

You've said more than once that you love your WW. But here you are, not even interested in finding out whether she's telling you the truth about whether the EA became sexual or not.

You're actually questioning whether or not her cheating became sexual?!?! Are you being for real?!??

Sexting, risky photos, hookups in cars, hookups at the sleazebag's house, burner phones.

We're still asking about "if it was sexual"?! Someone needs to "look at the context" and use common sense. The only question is "how sexual was it?"

Mr. F only finds out through interrogation and the threat of a possible polygraph, that her level of deception and betrayal is far worse than she admitted.

I think he should have her do the polygraph. For his own peace of mind.

But you know what? If what he knows now is enough for him to divorce and walk away, he is being perfectly reasonable.

It demands empathy. It insists on connection. It requires that we bend rather than break.

Mr F hasn't shown tons of empathy? Is that what you're saying? He hasn't been flexible? He needs to "bend" (over) more for his wife in your view? What does "bend rather than break" even mean than absorb shitloads of abuse?

If he reached his breaking point it is perfectly reasonable. In fact, it was reasonable months ago!

Here is my idea: Maybe we should be focusing a bit more on what is to be demanded of the cheater rather than the betrayed spouse?

Let's talk about the person who had all the planned hookups, burner phones, sexting etc. and what should be demanded of them!

You know, how she should respect for his wishes for the possible reconciliation process and telling the truth.

Or, I guess we can just put the blame and the burden on the person who was betrayed. That's much easier. Therapist style!

And if you can't do that, if your pride is of more value to you than the woman you claimed to love, she's better off without you.

Yes. The cheater is better off without him because he won't be a fucking doormat for her.

As usual, your concern is for the female, whether she is the cheater or the cheated.

Mr F has been loyal, honorable, supported his family through thick and thin. he has been far to accommodating of her despicable behavior.

Any suggestion that she is better off without him because he won't meet some standard is ludicrous.

***

Nothing was taken out of context. You're just telling him what he needs to do to be worthy of getting back together with her.

[This message edited by faithfulman at 6:22 PM, March 16th (Tuesday)]

It's a dialoque of the deaf. Yeah, why not post the WHOLE context if partial quoting, in fact, serves you more in spreading the hate. And, why not stop recycling the unfounded and refuted allegations when continuing the "character assassination" of the BH does a better job. But, hey, at least it's sobering to know how much misandry prevails here too. Besides, it's good to know who should be avoided like plague and who not. I wish luck to the men willing to internalize this self hate. Anyway, deal me out.

I will not succumb to the misandrist emasculation of being denied the choice to determine the right path for me, the terms, rules and boundaries of reconciliation , hating myself for being a man, the self degradation of believing in my inherent evil and inferiority, simply because of my genitals, being the scapegoat for every wrong and misdeed in the world especially those made by women and unless I do as I told by our superiors.

And I'm done debating the misandrists on this thread. It's obvious they won't stop their hate, they won't stop spreading it, they won't stop manipulative tactices and they won't appologize for anything.

[This message edited by QuitOrNotToQuit at 11:55 PM, March 16th (Tuesday)]

So, there it is in bold. In context, what I'm talking about is what it takes to R, and maybe that's unfamiliar territory to a bunch of people who either haven't tried it or who have had no success with it. Maybe that's the confusion. Who knows?

Wow. I can't really say much to that in context.

Call me crazy but I believe Mr. F has the right to change his mind without being judged. And I'll support him tomorrow if he changes his mind to go through the polygraph and R or R after D. And I'll support him if he changes his mind 2 days from now and decides to D without the poly and R. And I'll support him if he chooses to do nothing as long as he's taking care of himself, relatively safe, and getting support.

I do believe though that if the OP no longer loves his wife, she's better off without him. I don't subscribe to punishing repentant cheaters. You can't hurt someone you love without hurting yourself. A truly repentant cheater knows that. They've lived it. So, if there's no love left there, he can let her go without guilt or remorse because even though she'll cry for awhile, she's moving on to a better life. There's not much worse in this world than to be chained in marriage to someone who doesn't love you.

I just don't believe anyone has any right to question his love for her or even imply it. I don't believe that his current choice of action is any reflection at all of his feelings for her. I'm more comfortable assuming he still loves her but that this is his line in the sand. I'm confused as to why this is even a topic of conversation when I don't think Mr. F has posted anything even implying the possibility of an outcome you've outlined. Unless maybe you think he really doesn't love her and now might be talked into R'ing with her.

You're right. I've read over your posts here many times now and I don't get it at all. I don't think you meant to be malicious but I also don't think it's some sort of conspiracy that so many posters took offense to it and I know that I would be beyond upset if someone questioned my love for my spouse over how swiftly or decisively I acted in regards to infidelity. I don't think it's fair to even imply Mr. F doesn't love his WW without him saying so.