SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

If you read my back story on my profile you will see that I have been in my marriage for quite some time. Please do not take the term 'loveless' in the title of this post to mean we don't love one another. It's the lack of physical love that is missing. The reason I am posting under 'Just Found Out' is that during this whole pandemic, especially this past week that I have been on Holiday, it has given us more chances to talk more and some things have come back to light. Just like everyone else we have felt very couped up and we cannot wait till there is some semblance of normalcy. Since my wife is older and retired she is rightfully wanting to take a trip though she is wanting to do it by herself. That is not the matter. What I question is my wife's suggestion for an open marriage (as you will also read in my back story). Though difficult at times (and man do I mean difficult) the other great aspects of our marriage have greatly outweighed the lack of intimacy. And with the aspect of an Open Marriage I have not been able to see how being with another would allow us (mainly me) to stay devoted to the marriage. One woman man I guess...

Any thoughts would be most appreciated. As honest as you can be please!

Given today is New Years Eve I wish all that have found a need to find answers on this website a most Happy New Year!!

I cannot access your back story but, the fact that your wife has suggested an open marriage, and that she wants to take a trip on her own, indicates to me that there she is someone else in her life that you don't know about....

The main question to ask yourself is:

Will *I* be happy with the proposal?

I'm sorry to say that if you are even posting here it probably means you will not.

And if she is proposing it it probably means that she will not be happy with any other alternative. (Or that she will stray again as she did before)

I know this from bitter experience.

I'd start looking into consulting a lawyer, just getting your ducks in a row so to speak, to prepare for the worst. Maybe you can come to an acceptable agreement, but the likelihood of that from what I've seen here is not too good...

Going on a trip... suggesting an open marriage... She likely already has someone else in mind.

It isn't unique to be in a marriage devoid of physicality. It's a bafflingly common form of masochism. I mean, really I don't see much in your backstory other than sunk cost fallacy in the first place.

She didn't really want to marry you, she cheated on you, and now she won't have sex with you. What am I missing here? If you want a business partnership, get a divorce and write up a separate contract. If you want a best friend, get a divorce and have a best friend.

Do you think you deserve a wife who actually loves you and is sexually attracted to you. One who isn't currently asking you to go have sex with other men when she won't even have sex with you?

What are you getting out of this marriage? Why are you afraid of change?

Are you going to be happy watching your wife date others?

I guess she doesn’t think YOU will date others. In fact I believe she doesn’t have any thoughts on that aspect b/c she either doesn’t care or doesn’t think that will happen.

New year = new you. New decisions, new outlook, new everything b/c you have a choice. And I don’t believe you can rewrite the terms of the marriage unless both willingly agree. And it doesn’t appear you want an open marriage.

Tell her she’s feee to go - on her own dime. She can travel or date or whatever but not with you sitting at home waiting for her.

read your story.

she wants sex just not with you.

she has cheated and most likely is cheating now.

sell this house, and have her served with divorce papers.

you are just a meal ticket for her.

53, architect, great income, you should be able to get

a hot 43 year old woman to be your wife.

An open marriage after infidelity is like a band aid over a stab wound. It helps but your still bleeding out. Why does your wife want an open marriage if you have a dead bedroom? Did she initiate the dead bedroom?

Any non monogamous relationship needs both parties 100% in. There can be NO jealousy at all. Can your wife take it knowing your sleeping with somebody else? You also need clear cut rules and consequences if somebody breaks the rules. In my opinion if she cant follow the marriage contract of fidelity what makes you think she can follow the rules in an open relationship?

Also if it took you a number of years to finally except her arrangement of open relationships. I can tell you are not 100% on board she has worn you down by talking about it and a dead bedroom. Please reconsider doing this.

Also another important factor is body count and time. Will you actually date others or have a physical relationship? Will you just sit at home? An open relationship also has a fine line between a poly relationship. You are at risk of having a poly marriage, can you handle that? She wants a "husband" as well as a sex partner.

[This message edited by BigNoob at 7:46 AM, January 1st (Friday)]

SHE wants an open marriage...so she can do whatever and whomever she wants. I'm betting if you did likewise she'd put the brakes on it. If you aren't 100% in with an open marriage (to a cheater) then you need to get out. don't let her drag you along as a plan B.

53, architect, great income, you should be able to get

a hot 43 year old woman to be your wife.

Old Truck: I know you mean well but that comes across in not a nice way.

Why do the two of you no longer have sex? It certainly sounds like your wife has already begun a relationship with another man. Have you confronted her? But, it sounds like she wants to keep you as a roommate until she finds someone else. She will then likely leave you.

What do you want out of this relationship? If you want a warm, loving relationship with someone better move on. If you

are willing to be a doormat until your wife leaves you for someone else then continue as you are doing.

Old Truck: I know you mean well but that comes across in not a nice way.

When I saw OldTruck’s post I thought hmmm, that may not be well received by everybody...

I LOL’d when I saw your post Anna123. Call me Nostradamus.

SUTM, occasionally in a Tarzan movie Tarzan actually lets go of one vine before grabbing another. Don’t be afraid of flying free. The jungle floor is a soft landing.

Is it unique to stay in a loveless marriage?

Probably not as unique as it should be. I'm sure they exist.

Is it unique to be in a loveless marriage and be happy? And thrive as an individual?

I would have to say yes. I hope there are not too many of these situations out there. Life is too short to be miserable.

Is it unique to be in an open marriage? No, they exist.

Is it unique to be in an open marriage and seek help from internet strangers on a surviving infidelity website? Yes.

You're here..., something is wrong. Your mind and body are telling you something is wrong. Listen to them. Your fight or flight instincts are kicking in. It's likely jealousy is part of that. It's OK. It's natural, we all feel it (at least those of us who are not sociopaths).

This is making you uncomfortable or else you would not be here. Don't live like this.

We all have our breaking points and it sounds like you have not reached yours yet. I can tell you that if you are uncomfortable enough with the situation now to post here, then it's only going to get worse. How are you going to feel when she starts traveling? How are you going to feel when she's not with you? Do you really want to live like that?

And no sex? Good God man how do you do it? There are too many woman on your age range who enjoy sex...you should too

[This message edited by DanielJK at 10:00 AM, January 1st (Friday)]

Looks risky to me. An open M allows your W to try out potential partners; if she finds one, she leaves.

The demographics are either in your favor or about to be in your favor. Why doom yourself to a sexless M? Are you really getting what you want from your W? Is it really going to last until one of you dies? Or are you staying out of inertia or, worse, fear?

Do you want separate vacations, or do you want to be together?

You are literally married to a remorseless cheater that you admit didn’t love you when you married, cheated on you, has no desire for you, is not sexually attracted to you, and who asked for an open marriage.

I gotta ask you- exactly what advice do you want here? Seriously, read the above...that’s from your own statements.

A better question is why you value yourself so little that you stay with someone who is so horrible to you.

Dont confuse love for taking damage from a predator. For eg

I love wildlife but not enough to jump into an alligators mouth to feed them . What you are doing right now is participating in your own abuse and there is simply no excuse for that

Please get a therapist and understand how to completely respect and prioritise yourself and then learn how to detach from this very toxic manipulative partner

In some other context - yes , people are certainly able to be in respectful and committed healthy marriages without sex without monogamy and even without romantic love but none of those other contexts ( healthy swinging arranged marriages medical problems ) apply to your life.

Best of luck and im truly sorry this is happening to you

[This message edited by siracha at 6:18 PM, January 2nd (Saturday)]

Still,

This is directly from your background story:

We are still married to this day, though we have taken sex completely off the table. We are great partners in marriage except for that.

What is your definition of great partners? Like financially great partners? That she is someone that you can talk to.....as in a good(or even best) friend?

I am curious as to how you define her as a great partner, because I really feel that you are selling yourself short. I believe that you have always put her happiness in front of yours.....to the point of being unhealthy. A marriage, at least the way I see one, is two partners putting in equal efforts to ON THEIR PARTNERS AND THEMSELVES as to achieve a harmonious, satisfying union. Personally, I think that one of the cruelest acts by your WW was to marry you with the impression that she loved you, and was all-in on her marriage.

How would you have reacted, during your courtship, if she was to tell you this? You will never know, because she took that agency away from you. She has taken your agency away multiple times during your marriage, and I think that this is something that you really need to explore---if you can accept this.

I actually know a couple with just about the same age difference as you and your wife. They have sex. She told me they do. You are hanging on to a dead marriage. It might be a friendship but that’s all. How dare her! Why did she feel it necessary to tell you about wishing she had not married you. You deserve sooooo much better than this.

I agree with the others. She is going on a trip with some one/to visit someone. It’s time to let go of hope. It’s keeping you stuck.

An open marriage is a dead marriage.

It is often a one sided arrangement for the benefit of the spouse requesting the marriage be opened. Either she has someone lined up or has someone in mind.

The hardest part is she stated that she really was not that in love with me when we got married and that if she had to do it all over she would not have married me then.

You can certainly humor her request. It will not bring you and her any closer together. You can expect if you do find a woman that satisfies your needs your wife will attempt to close your marriage as quickly as she opened it.

Possibly she said that but it wasn't true in the beginning. Could be she's in love with someone else and is making mental twists in the way she regards your relationship.

I agree that if she goes off to try others, she will probably leave anyway. She's looking for permission to abuse you. Can you really be happy with a selfish partner?

I know the fear of loneliness. People stay in unhealthy relationships out of that fear. I'm ok, I'm comfortable you might tell yourself. No you're not. Every breathing person knows what love is. She's not cherishing you.

Maybe separate and work on your self esteem. You've been rejected too long and it's damaged you. I had to work on my self esteem too. My WS was devaluing me and gaslighting me. He had me feeling I was nothing. No one. It's the worst.

Tell her she's being cruel and selfish. If she wants to go let her go. Don't pay for any trips or clothes for a trip or anything associated. You think about what happiness looks like for you. You never have to settle for less. Tell yourself this year is different. You come first and you matter. She's indulged her ego enough.

Personally I think the logic of Stillunabletomov should divorce because he can find a younger woman to be flawed in all aspects and every way imaginable.

The big issue IMHO is if Stillunabletomov can become happy – as in feeling his life is on the right track – in his PRESENT marriage. If not and if there is no belief that it’s attainable then he definitely should move on and find happiness himself and then maybe eventually in another woman’s arms.

I think it’s push-come-to-shove time SUTM… I think your time in limbo is over…

I think the no sex and the separate vacations and the open marriage all needs to be addressed.

Open marriage can cover a wide aspect of options. This has been addressed about a zilquadrillion times here on SI and what most agree on is this:

In order for an open marriage to work there have to be established and accepted ground rules that BOTH partners stick to. When she wants an open marriage what does she mean? Is it only to meet another man for sex? As in book a hotel room, say hi in the lobby and then go at it for 4 hours, maybe not to meet again? Or is it to establish a girlfriend/boyfriend relationship? Or you two going to sex-clubs and screwing around? Or her meeting the same guy every second Tuesday for sex? Emotional or polyamorous?

What is it she wants?

To me it can probably be divided into two basic groups: A sexual encounter – thereby establishing she has sexual needs and desires. Or emotional – making me question how great you two are as a married couple “that has it all but the sex” as you indicate.

I strongly – in the strongest words – encourage you to deal with the real issues.

No – The non-sex has to stop. You can take it slow. Maybe even get guidance from a MC. Maybe only cuddling and all that for some time. But with the goal of establishing a sexual marital relationship. Look – if she’s able to contemplate sex with a stranger (open marriage) then she should be able to cope with sex with her husband…

Individual vacations? No. No way. Your marriage needs attention. You two go together on vacation, candle-lit dinners, romantic walks and sex every night. Your marriage needs it.

Discuss the above issues with her. Make it clear that what is now might be nice but it’s not a marriage. I totally think that if you are not happy with the concept of an open marriage then you are better off out of this marriage UNLESS it changes. I am not referring to her accepting monogamy, but rather that she gets her sexual needs – and you yours – met within this marriage.