SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Stevesn

I agree with the recommendation that you negotiate being able to keep the kids at your parents place. Maybe not promise reconciliation someday if she gets her head out of her as like was suggested, as that is very subjective. But how about a little more money or slightly better terms for her if she agrees to let you stay there for two years and include a thorough cleaning of the house and filtration systems and a promise from your dad to smoke outside.

I've offered that and I'm already doing that - but she wasn't budging. I'm hoping she changes her mind. That said there might be some wiggle room, but it would mean temporarily not having the kids 50/50. Which stabs my heart hard. The basic idea would be that I would get them some time but would drop them off or maybe like over the weekend. Then once I'm out of my parents house I we'd go to 50/50. We'd have the contract written up like that.

I say this because I doubt she'll be able to pay me out the equity. As it is I'm not sure she can pay for the house as is. She will probably have to get a room mate at the least.

Skadu

I feel like I only ever chime in on the ancillary things, but oh well.

I seriously appreciate any and all chiming in. Even if you think I'm pulling a bone-head move.

There's a hand filter your parent can get if they switch to vaping that will kill any of the remaining contaminants they may put out into the air. Look up something similar to vape buddy or philter pocket.

Really? I didn't know that - that's interesting. I don't know much about vaping.

Here's the fucked up thing (I may have mentioned this), and yes I brought it up in mediation, my wife used to smoke for a number of years. We used to live with my parents, briefly, with both kids when they were babies.

I feel like this is a bullshit hill to die on, but again, this is mediation - the mediator isn't deciding, she's just giving options. We both have to agree and my wife is dug in like a tick, at the moment.

ChamomileTea

I went to vaping about six years ago. It's pretty darn easy if you're committed to actually giving up tobacco cigarettes. That first couple of weeks, you do feel like you're missing something, like there's something else in your cigarette which feels addictive. But if you can tough it out and stick to the vape mod for just the first few days, it fades quickly. Then, after a couple of weeks, you notice that your smoker's cough has disappeared and the wheezing in your lungs is gone, like magic really. Your clothes don't stink, and you're not smoking outside in the winter time.

? Is it still nicotine you are vaping?

It does take a little time to get used to how the mods work and when to change the coils. At first, when your lungs are still so tender after being a full time smoker, the pen mods are best because they don't create quite as much vapor. It's best to buy at least two so one can always be charged. Light flavored fruits are my favorite. Tobacco flavors are typically inaccurate, but might be worth trying. Heavily sweetened candy or dessert flavors burn out coils fast, so you always want extra coils on hand. Once your lungs have healed a bit from the tobacco smoking, you can move to a box mod and just keep an extra set of batteries and a charger. As always, extra coils on hand.

Jeez, I had no idea. He might actually dig that.

If your parents are open to vaping instead, there's quite a bit which could be beneficial for them aside from helping you out. Ejuices come in various levels of nicotine exposure. You can dial it down to 0mg and quit altogether in time.

Feel free to PM me with any questions.

ETA: Bear in mind that the online stores are about 50% cheaper than brick and mortar stores.

Thanks, will do. This is helpful.

The next time you go into mediation, simply say that your living arrangements are off the table and she has zero say...end of discussion.

She only gets input in that if you allow it.

The negative about divorce is it usually lowers the standard of living for both parties.

You can’t look after her and try to protect yourself in this situation. Be fair but take care of yourself. You can’t do both.

She needs to pull up her big girl panties and figure her end out.

Wake up

Maybe she shouldn’t have destroyed the marriage?

[This message edited by Marz at 4:28 PM, February 19th (Wednesday)]

Is it still nicotine you are vaping?

Yeah. The eLiquid is typically flavored, but there is nicotine in it. Although, you can buy 0% nicotine as well. That's great for people who are still enjoying the habit of smoking; oral fixation, doing something with their hands, etc.

For the pen mods, you would typically start at 24mg for very heavy smokers or 12mg for moderate smokers. 12 mg used to do me just fine having been a little more than a pack-a-day smoker. When you get to the box mods though, you're talking about a lot more vapor being created in every puff. So, heavier smokers would be purchasing 6% and moderate/light smokers would be 3%.

Like I said, it takes some getting used to, but I would never go back (even though I remember cigarettes with fondness)… because the coughing and wheezing went away after only a few weeks. Now, bear in mind that I started smoking at 14 years and only quit for child-bearing and breastfeeding. Then, I went crawling back to cigarettes every time. So we're talking a 35 year habit.

I would recommend to you though that the lithium batteries need to be respected. Typically, when accidents happen, it's because someone was messing around building batteries or otherwise not following instructions. For older folks, I like to keep an eye on their understanding of the product because accidents can be catastrophic. But I've been vaping 6 years now with no incidents.

Suggest that she move in with her parents and you stay in the family home, if she wants a say as to where you live. That's your non negotiable bottom line. If she wants to blow assets on legal, you're willing to go to that extent with no concessions and you will walk back some of the offers you've made to make it easier for her to get out of your life.

It's time to go tactical. No more concessions or offers to her. She's being unreasonable. She knows it. It's poker to her because you care more about the children than she does. You care more about the finances than she does.

It's time for you to care less about everything that doesn't matter. Money doesn't go to her; it goes to attorneys. Do. Not. Give. Up. Time. With. Your. Children. OM is right there to step in and be "dad" and push you further out. He wants your life. Do not give it to him or to her.

The buyers remorse I referred to, TheLostOne, is with your WW. Given time she may start to demand more. She may talk to others who encourage her to "get her share" or go for the throat. My Separation Agreement was substantially different at the end (almost a year after negotiations started) than at the beginning.

She cried several times before, during, and after mediation. She did say that she didn't want to end the marriage during mediation. She said that she'd been working on it. I don't recall exactly what I said but it was essentially that I couldn't continue as it was and did not want to continue the marriage

Maybe she needs to be reminded that you did discuss an opportunity for R but she decided that her time with the other man was worth far more than your mental health. that was her 1 shot and she slammed the door on it in favor of her new boyfriend.

Hey TLO,

That's all fine, but even if she was indifferent - how can I live with what's happened? What I will HAVE to do? I just don't see it. I don't see a viable outcome in staying with her.

I mean, if you are talking about her own growth and development, sure I hope the best for her so she doesn't do this to her future partners.

Relax, my comment was not meant to suggest that you stay with your WW if she reaches the state of indifference.

You do not have to stay with her. You do not have to 'live with it'. It is up to you. Even if she reaches the point of Indifference, it will ultimately be up to you if you want to stay or go. No harm no foul. You have to do best for YOU.

The point I was trying to make (more like an observation), was for your future reference.

You seem to be holding up quite well, and on a steady path out of infidelity. Well done!

OrdinaryDude

The next time you go into mediation, simply say that your living arrangements are off the table and she has zero say...end of discussion.

She only gets input in that if you allow it.

I wish that were the case - the issue is with custody. She doesn't want to do 50/50 with the kids in the house with the smoker.

Marz

The negative about divorce is it usually lowers the standard of living for both parties.

You can’t look after her and try to protect yourself in this situation. Be fair but take care of yourself. You can’t do both.

She needs to pull up her big girl panties and figure her end out.

Wake up

You are right. I'm probably going to have to pull the nuclear option and just go through lawyers. I just wish something would shake out in my favor. I feel like I've been fucked over repeatedly since the start of the year.

Maybe she shouldn’t have destroyed the marriage?

Exactly.

ChamomileTea

Yeah. The eLiquid is typically flavored, but there is nicotine in it. Although, you can buy 0% nicotine as well. That's great for people who are still enjoying the habit of smoking; oral fixation, doing something with their hands, etc.

For the pen mods, you would typically start at 24mg for very heavy smokers or 12mg for moderate smokers. 12 mg used to do me just fine having been a little more than a pack-a-day smoker. When you get to the box mods though, you're talking about a lot more vapor being created in every puff. So, heavier smokers would be purchasing 6% and moderate/light smokers would be 3%.

I'm going to swing this by him, hopefully he's interested.

Like I said, it takes some getting used to, but I would never go back (even though I remember cigarettes with fondness)… because the coughing and wheezing went away after only a few weeks. Now, bear in mind that I started smoking at 14 years and only quit for child-bearing and breastfeeding. Then, I went crawling back to cigarettes every time. So we're talking a 35 year habit.

I would recommend to you though that the lithium batteries need to be respected. Typically, when accidents happen, it's because someone was messing around building batteries or otherwise not following instructions. For older folks, I like to keep an eye on their understanding of the product because accidents can be catastrophic. But I've been vaping 6 years now with no incidents.

okay I will keep that in mind, thank you!

k8la

Suggest that she move in with her parents and you stay in the family home, if she wants a say as to where you live.

Her mom's dead and her father's a pedophile. I get what you're saying though.

That's your non negotiable bottom line. If she wants to blow assets on legal, you're willing to go to that extent with no concessions and you will walk back some of the offers you've made to make it easier for her to get out of your life.

It's time to go tactical. No more concessions or offers to her. She's being unreasonable. She knows it. It's poker to her because you care more about the children than she does. You care more about the finances than she does.

I agree with you.

It's time for you to care less about everything that doesn't matter. Money doesn't go to her; it goes to attorneys. Do. Not. Give. Up. Time. With. Your. Children. OM is right there to step in and be "dad" and push you further out. He wants your life. Do not give it to him or to her.

I think you are right. I cannot give up time with my kids.

steadychevy

The buyers remorse I referred to, TheLostOne, is with your WW. Given time she may start to demand more. She may talk to others who encourage her to "get her share" or go for the throat. My Separation Agreement was substantially different at the end (almost a year after negotiations started) than at the beginning.

Ah, I see what you're saying. Yes, this is on my mind too.

leftbroken

Maybe she needs to be reminded that you did discuss an opportunity for R but she decided that her time with the other man was worth far more than your mental health. that was her 1 shot and she slammed the door on it in favor of her new boyfriend.

Very fucking true.

RocketRaccoon

Relax, my comment was not meant to suggest that you stay with your WW if she reaches the state of indifference.

My apologies man, I'm just feeling very caged right now. I'm very fucking irritated that I'm going to have to go through lawyers.

You do not have to stay with her. You do not have to 'live with it'. It is up to you. Even if she reaches the point of Indifference, it will ultimately be up to you if you want to stay or go. No harm no foul. You have to do best for YOU.

I got ya, yeah, thank you.

The point I was trying to make (more like an observation), was for your future reference.

You seem to be holding up quite well, and on a steady path out of infidelity. Well done!

I hear what you're saying. I just can't see past my nose at this point.

I feel like I'm trying to violently shake off something that has it's claws in me. It's claws pierce me and produce an unimaginable pain that I know will ease/heal when I get it off of me. It's like a vampire that at the same time it's draining me it's trying to fuck with my head.

After you're divorced, is it possible she'll want/need you to take the kids 50% or more of the time (regardless of any agreement)?

1 - Does your wife have family and friends to help with the kids?

2 - 'who' will drop off the kids everyday or watch the kids while you both work?

3 - 'who' will watch the kids if she wants to spend time with the OM?

4 - has the OM offered for her and the kids to live with him and his dad?

As I recall from your earlier posts, the OM is a 'user/taker' and more often than not unemployed and lives with his Dad. He cheated on her in the past so is there any reason to believe she's the only woman he's currently playing with or that he may lose interest in her once she's a single mom?

Robert22205https

After you're divorced, is it possible she'll want/need you to take the kids 50% or more of the time (regardless of any agreement)?

Possible, but I can't bank on it. She's made comments about having to get a second job, but I think it's primarily to guilt me.

1 - Does your wife have family and friends to help with the kids?

She has sisters who have kids that can babysit.

2 - 'who' will drop off the kids everyday or watch the kids while you both work?

Depends on the week. Right now we want to do one week her, one week me. I'd pick the kids up, take them to school and pick them up. I can telework and my mother teleworks at least two days a week. My wife teleworks every day.

3 - 'who' will watch the kids if she wants to spend time with the OM?

Possibly her sister's kids.

4 - has the OM offered for her and the kids to live with him and his dad?

No and she doesn't want that because he lives in West VA - we want them to stay in the same school. That would be a MASSIVE problem. OM's father doesn't live with him, he just owns the house.

As I recall from your earlier posts, the OM is a 'user/taker' and more often than not unemployed and lives with his Dad. He cheated on her in the past so is there any reason to believe she's the only woman he's currently playing with or that he may lose interest in her once she's a single mom?

You recall almost correctly. I'm not sure if he's chronically unemployed, but he has been for a few months now. He has cheated on her, lied about it, and cheated on a lot of other women - but 'they don't count because he was emotionally checked out', lol.

No reason to believe she's the only one he's fucking with, but he's unemployed and apparently sleeps a lot of the day. So...maybe she is? I dunno. I would expect that once he got a job and felt a little better about himself he'd be on the lookout again.

It has nothing to do with your father smoking.

It's about control. It's about her dragging this out(which was her plan,if you recall). It's about her being worried your parents will talk bad about her, as she said when you first told her your plan.

The smoking is an excuse to hide the real reasons.

Hmm. I wonder. If any future boyfriends,or OM, smoke, will she keep them away from the kids? You know she won't.

She is doing this on purpose. The longer she drags this out, the better for her. If you gave in,and said you wouldn't move in with your parents, there will suddenly be something else she fights you about. Mediation is a waste of time. You might as well get an attorney involved. Yes, it will cost more. But you will be able to save money by living with your parents. And, you will feel better about the whole thing, because, in the end, she wasn't able to dictate what you should do.

Free yourself.

HellFire

It has nothing to do with your father smoking.

It's about control. It's about her dragging this out(which was her plan,if you recall). It's about her being worried your parents will talk bad about her, as she said when you first told her your plan.

I'm aware of this.

The smoking is an excuse to hide the real reasons.

Agreed.

Hmm. I wonder. If any future boyfriends,or OM, smoke, will she keep them away from the kids? You know she won't.

Of course she won't.

She is doing this on purpose. The longer she drags this out, the better for her. If you gave in,and said you wouldn't move in with your parents, there will suddenly be something else she fights you about. Mediation is a waste of time. You might as well get an attorney involved. Yes, it will cost more. But you will be able to save money by living with your parents. And, you will feel better about the whole thing, because, in the end, she wasn't able to dictate what you should do.

Free yourself.

You are probably right. Just the thought of tens of thousands of dollars is nauseating to me. But if it has to be then it has to be.

Lost,

If the thought of tens of thousands of dollars nauseates you, imagine what it will do to her. She has no support like your parents and no major financial assets. She is bluffing, and counting on you to eventually go for either a false R or in house separation. Now that you don't give a shit if she is still cheating her ace card is not there any more. She only had the upper hand when you were hoping she would break total contact with him. And you know that has not happened, you heard with your own two ears what she has said to him, and the real world is now here for her.

Do not let her back you down. It is HARDBALL time. This smoking bull shit is nonsense. Second hand smoke does not give you cancer for short term situations. You are not planning on moving in to your parents for years.

You need to get your plan and attorney ready to go. When she needs an attorney, how is she going to afford that and pay for the house herself.

If i were you, every time you think of accomadating her on ANYTHING, i would remind yourself of how long and how openly and disrespectful she has been to you just since D Day.

You are on offense. STAY THERE!!!

LO

I was just trying to understand the full picture. Are you saying there is $70k of equity in the house and that you are telling her that you will give her your half if she lets you live with your parents?

Was that an economic analysis you did to say the money you will save living w your parents will be more financially beneficial to u than taking the $35k? Eg Saving in rent and other costs? Do you know how long you Wil have to stay with your parents to make up that $35k?

Thanks.

Just my $0.02, but trying to be fair and negotiate if failing. At some point in time (probably now), you need to put your war paint on, drop the mediation, lawyer up and just go for it. She brought this all on you and now it's time for her to own up.

BeyondRage

Lost,

If the thought of tens of thousands of dollars nauseates you, imagine what it will do to her. She has no support like your parents and no major financial assets. She is bluffing, and counting on you to eventually go for either a false R or in house separation. Now that you don't give a shit if she is still cheating her ace card is not there any more. She only had the upper hand when you were hoping she would break total contact with him. And you know that has not happened, you heard with your own two ears what she has said to him, and the real world is now here for her.

That's a good damned point.

Do not let her back you down. It is HARDBALL time. This smoking bull shit is nonsense. Second hand smoke does not give you cancer for short term situations. You are not planning on moving in to your parents for years.

You need to get your plan and attorney ready to go. When she needs an attorney, how is she going to afford that and pay for the house herself.

If i were you, every time you think of accomadating her on ANYTHING, i would remind yourself of how long and how openly and disrespectful she has been to you just since D Day.

You are on offense. STAY THERE!!!

Yes, I think I will. The only two options I will consider are:

1. My moving in with parents - 50/50 kids

2. Her paying me out - 50/50 kids

I'm okay with both of those options - I just doubt she's going to be able to get the second one. I'm going to talk with her about this soon.

Stevesn

LO

I was just trying to understand the full picture. Are you saying there is $70k of equity in the house and that you are telling her that you will give her your half if she lets you live with your parents?

Yes, that's exactly what I offered her. The precise amount of equity depends on a few factors, but essentially that's it.

Was that an economic analysis you did to say the money you will save living w your parents will be more financially beneficial to u than taking the $35k? Eg Saving in rent and other costs? Do you know how long you Wil have to stay with your parents to make up that $35k?

Thanks.

Basically yes - the 35k would essentially be what I would save living with my parents, however I obviously wouldn't have them physically there for me. I'm not quite sure how long I'd need to stay with my parents, but I estimate about a year, probably less, actually. I get a bonus so that factors into things and I just did a rough calculation.

thatbpguy

Just my $0.02, but trying to be fair and negotiate if failing. At some point in time (probably now), you need to put your war paint on, drop the mediation, lawyer up and just go for it. She brought this all on you and now it's time for her to own up.

I agree with you here. I'm going to try to talk it out with her, which might be pointless, but she was an emotional wreck in the mediation - I'm sure she called a few people since then. NOT ANY BANKS, I'M SURE, but whatever. Maybe I'm too skeptical. Probably - but that's because I feel caged.

So I will try to talk some sense into her.

That said, I talked with the mediator the EARLIEST we can next meet is March 23rd. I scheduled it. That's a kick in the nuts, but I can do this. I've gotten this far.

Edit: I forgot to add - when my wife was confirming the 23rd, she was skeptical about the necessity of the mediator. She thinks we can do this 'ourselves'. Which I think is a horrible idea for many reasons - yeah, it would save us money, I get that, but at the expense of covering our asses. That's not just me being paranoid - it's looking out for her too. She should realize that this is all about protection and crossing 'T's and dotting 'i's. Yes, her sister didn't do any of this, she just filed paperwork.

But her sister gets no child support, the Ex RARELY sees his kids and, occasionally, when he takes them out for a few days he's been living in his car (which obviously the kids did too). I want to say that this is related to the other poor decisions she's made (cheating, father in her life, etc).

Whatever though, I'M NOT risking no legal protection. Fuck that. I love my kids.

[This message edited by TheLostOne2020 at 10:33 AM, February 20th (Thursday)]

LO

I was just trying to understand the full picture. Are you saying there is $70k of equity in the house and that you are telling her that you will give her your half if she lets you live with your parents?

Yes, that's exactly what I offered her. The precise amount of equity depends on a few factors, but essentially that's it.

Maybe I'm missing something but if you have 70k in equity to split, go through a regular divorce in court, demand you sell the house or get bought out, pay the lawyer 10k - 15k, you'd walk away with around 20k - 25k. You could also live where ever the hell you wanted to since you wouldn't have to agree with her on anything. As in, live with your parents for a year to add to the equity money. It seems like you're selling yourself real short.

Murkywaters

Maybe I'm missing something but if you have 70k in equity to split, go through a regular divorce in court, demand you sell the house or get bought out, pay the lawyer 10k - 15k, you'd walk away with around 20k - 25k. You could also live where ever the hell you wanted to since you wouldn't have to agree with her on anything. As in, live with your parents for a year to add to the equity money. It seems like you're selling yourself real short.

My lawyer told me that the costs to get divorced would be something like 20-80k. Further selling the house might take a while. Finally, I want the kids to stay in the school they are.

If I have to nuke things, then I have to nuke things and that's what I'll do.

Edit: I'm kind of feeling better about things. Thanks people. I know I have the options, really. When it comes down to it, it depends on what I ultimately want to do. Things might be difficult for me financially/emotionally for a bit, but I'll get through this.

[This message edited by TheLostOne2020 at 12:00 PM, February 20th (Thursday)]