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Not much of an update. Had a discussion with my wife about the equity payout. She hadn't started looking into. Surprise, surprise. She told me that she was 'going to talk to me about counseling on Saturday'. No idea why she thinks this might be helpful. I told her a bunch of stuff, but ultimately she's done zippo for me, she's still in love with another man (she denies), she is not in love with me (she denies, says she is). Basically it came down to me pointing out she hasn't done shit, won't do shit, and that I need her to look into the equity stuff. I need her to do this, not any of the other gum-flapping bullshit she's been doing. She cried and said a bunch of self denigrating blather. This was over texts and in person. So it was 'loads of fun' and I recognize that I just shouldn't have engaged. That said, she did ask me for the mortgage people's name and she said she was going to contact them.

Who the fuck knows though. This week I'm going to contact my lawyer and get the ball rolling in that direction. I also spent some time at my parents house, cleaning/moving, and that sort of thing. I'll be doing more of that this up coming week too.

I largely spent the rest of the weekend away from her. So that was good. I pulled some stuff out that I intend to take over to my parents place - I can't do that just yet because the carpets are getting done soon and that would just be a lot of stuff to move around.

Edit: I do have some material about her being suicidal via text. Basically me bringing it up and her saying that she's going to go to a therapist this week for some medicine. Not quite sure what to make of it, will take it to my lawyer though.

[This message edited by TheLostOne2020 at 4:56 PM, March 8th (Sunday)]

You have progressed to have almost no feelings for her. Sad ending for her because of her some what selfish attitude where she either had no idea of what she was doing or thought that she can reel you in with minimal effort if she got caught.

You need to thread carefully if she is actually not of sound mind and interact with her without getting angry and being cordial (as much as possible) until every thing is finalized.

You're OK. Just shut down the MC talk. You should have asked her the last time she talked to him like I told you and when she lied tell her you'll go to MC as soon as a polygraph says that is true./

goalong

You have progressed to have almost no feelings for her. Sad ending for her because of her some what selfish attitude where she either had no idea of what she was doing or thought that she can reel you in with minimal effort if she got caught.

I'm sorry, I have to laugh a little - it's been a long day for me (I've had to work today, normal stuff for me). "Somewhat selfish". She's completely selfish, both with the cheating and afterward. She's so completely selfish that I don't even think she realizes how selfish she is.

You need to thread carefully if she is actually not of sound mind and interact with her without getting angry and being cordial (as much as possible) until every thing is finalized.

Agreed. I still haven't yelled at her or anything. I've been angry at her, sure. She came into my room to say that she was still in love with me and that she didn't know how to fix things and something about not deserving anything from me. I had just gotten back from the gym. I told her that she'd done nothing and that what I needed was for her to look into the equity payment so we could get the divorce going (I told her some other things, too, below). She told me that my son was outside the door. I just went into the bathroom, closed the door, and ignored the rest of whatever she was saying.

I didn't know my son was there, so I do feel a bit bad about that.

BeyondRage

You're OK. Just shut down the MC talk. You should have asked her the last time she talked to him like I told you and when she lied tell her you'll go to MC as soon as a polygraph says that is true./

Yeah, I did shut down the MC talk. When she said she was in love with me I did say something like how can you be in love with me if you are still talking to him? She said she hadn't since before the 14th. I said prove it, she said she couldn't. When she said that she was in love with me I told her to prove that too. She cried and said she couldn't. She might have said something else that I again responded with a 'prove it' (or actually I think I said 'what's the evidence of this' something like that). It seemed to be my go to when I was gathering my stuff for the shower and putting my things away.

Get your fair share !!!!!!

You may not realize how important that is so don’t look back and be very sorry you didn’t.

Ignore her self protection mode. Her actions tell you what you need to know.

LostOne, you sound a bit like I did once I realized what my ex was truly like. They make it easier to distance yourself from them when you see they aren’t the person you fell in love with. That the person you fell in love with doesn’t exist.

Hopefully you’ll be able to limit most conversations through your lawyer soon. That really helped me a lot, for those details to be funneled through a third party. My ex treated his own attorney badly and it ended up helping me with the negotiations since our two lawyers actually got along quite well professionally.

Marz

Get your fair share !!!!!!

You may not realize how important that is so don’t look back and be very sorry you didn’t.

Ignore her self protection mode. Her actions tell you what you need to know.

I understand that and I hear you and this may end up happening. I know she's in self protection mode. I am too, just in a different way.

Pandora16

LostOne, you sound a bit like I did once I realized what my ex was truly like. They make it easier to distance yourself from them when you see they aren’t the person you fell in love with. That the person you fell in love with doesn’t exist.

God if that's not the truth then I don't know what is.

Hopefully you’ll be able to limit most conversations through your lawyer soon. That really helped me a lot, for those details to be funneled through a third party. My ex treated his own attorney badly and it ended up helping me with the negotiations since our two lawyers actually got along quite well professionally.

Hopefully.

I did trade texts with her this morning. I asked her if she couldn't get the equity loan would she agree (in mediation) to my living with my parents for a year. She evaded the question and misread it. She finally responded saying yes she would agree to that. Now, will this last though the mediation? I don't know. I'm still going to contact my lawyer to set up contingencies.

I asked her what she was thinking with regard to me moving in with my parents. She said that she thinks it would be 'exciting for me'. I pointed out that I'm 41, it would be EMBARRASSING for me. It is helpful for the current situation. That's what it is and all it is. My mother works from home and can help with the kids, I can pay off debt. Seems 'win win' other than it stinks as a 41 year old man. The kids get to stay in their schools and all that.

So I write that it would not be exciting for me. She writes 'don't go, go to counseling with me'.

I just ignored that. To quote the kids today, I just can't even with that.

I think she recognizes that I hold the cards. What I don't think she believes is that if things don't go the way I intend that I'm comfortable with going ape, legally, on everything.

I think the hardest part about all this is the wait. It's like my marriage was shot in the stomach and even though it's a mortal wound it's just lingering around to die. I think that if I get married again, I will not be living in Virginia. That said, I don't think the separation period of a year is all that bad, it's getting to that point that's the drag....

Not that it matters, but I'm trying to decide if it's worse now, better, or more of the same than it was in the beginning. I think some aspects are worse - there's the emotional pressure that my wife is trying to exert over me, but that's irritating not really 'worse' than the initial week after D Day. There's the uncertainty about the future - but if I'm being honest, I'm filled with a lot of optimism. Yeah, things will be rough and all that, but I'll be out of infidelity and that will be so much better. There's concern and worry about my children. That's probably the hardest thing - but they are resilient and they will bounce through this. It pains me that they will experience pain. Ugh, that's the most cruel thing about all of this. The victims are truly blameless. There's still a roller coaster but it's so much different than it was in the beginning. I think the book helped, as did the time, as did talking it out here and with friends. Shit, I think talking it out here and with friends is vital. I cannot imagine not doing so. How do people survive this on their own?

This is like a 'stall' week. Nothing is happening. Next week the carpets get cleaned. The week after that is mediation. Hopefully the final one - but it depends on how much we need to get done. It's difficult to say. I'm (probably naively) optimistic about wrapping things up by the 24th - at least the part where we 'agree' on things. I recognize the mediator still has to type up the document, we have to edit/approve it and then it's good to go.

I asked her what she was thinking with regard to me moving in with my parents.

Under the circumstances what she thinks doesn't matter much.

You don’t need her permission or validation.

You do need to go your own way.

Marz

Under the circumstances what she thinks doesn't matter much.

You don’t need her permission or validation.

You do need to go your own way.

You are totally right - but I was curious. I had a discussion with one of my friends where I had said that nothing made any sense, she wasn't rational, etc, etc. My friend said 'why don't you ask her what she thinks?'.

This was a while ago, but during the discussion it popped into my head.

A little give and take isn't such a bad thing, TL1. You have every right to be a hardass, but if she has an ounce of power to make a decision to fuck with you, she'll use it in that scenario. Just out of spite, or trepidation that her life is falling apart and you are the last straws for her to flail around and keep her head above water. In asking her advice it makes her feel validated, and that makes mediation go easier, and you don't have a hard time of it. Good tactic. I'm not saying she isn't your adversary, she definitely still is that-- but you can handle your adversary with finesse instead of a club.

KingofNothing

A little give and take isn't such a bad thing, TL1. You have every right to be a hardass, but if she has an ounce of power to make a decision to fuck with you, she'll use it in that scenario. Just out of spite, or trepidation that her life is falling apart and you are the last straws for her to flail around and keep her head above water. In asking her advice it makes her feel validated, and that makes mediation go easier, and you don't have a hard time of it. Good tactic. I'm not saying she isn't your adversary, she definitely still is that-- but you can handle your adversary with finesse instead of a club.

Agreed. She will fuck with me if given the opportunity - or rather she will try to control me. With regard to the outcome of the mediation there's only two scenarios I will accept. She knows this and while she prefers one scenario (the pay out) she's accepting the other scenario. Granted I will see if this holds true on the actual day of mediation - but as each day goes on she's giving me more and more ammo for my lawyer.

Right now the adultery gives me leverage over the financial factors. Right now talking to her father gives me a bit of leverage over the custody factors. Right now her suicide talk gives me a lot of leverage over the custody factors. She knows this and I know this and she knows I know this. She has said that she's afraid of what I might do with regard to lawyers and she constantly reinforces that by questioning me whenever I'm going somewhere with a 'do I need a lawyer?'.

Right now I feel pretty static, but I'm also waiting for the other shoe to drop.

Don’t go, go to counseling with me.

I hope you told her that you would never go to counseling with someone who hasn’t worked to fix herself, someone who loves her AP more than the man she vowed to love honor cherish and protect and someone who still pines away for a piece of crap man.

Tell her your only option is to get away from a cheater like that and work to heal yourself because a woman still having an affair is never going to be able to rebuild what she destroyed.

Keep doing the right things LO and you’ll find happiness again. She’s losing the best things that were ever in her life and for what, a loser who will never be who you were to her in life.

Take care.

Stevesn

I hope you told her that you would never go to counseling with someone who hasn’t worked to fix herself, someone who loves her AP more than the man she vowed to love honor cherish and protect and someone who still pines away for a piece of crap man.

I've told her variations of that. The next time she brings it up I'm going to ask her for a polygraph - as evidence of some of the shit she claims, such as: That she hasn't talked to him since Feb 13th. That she hasn't fucked him after New Years. That she never fucked him in our house. Maybe some other things. It depends. When she brings it up I typically say something to the effect that there's no way that I'm going to spend any more effort on someone who has broken so many promises, spit on all my efforts, and has not lifted a damned finger to do anything that I need her to do.

Sorry - all of that came off as more aggressive than I intended. She's just brought MC up so often it's just a trigger for me to realize that she wants to do MC as opposed to doing any actual fucking work. I generally just say 'we tried that, you lied to me, end of story'. It's almost automatic.

Tell her your only option is to get away from a cheater like that and work to heal yourself because a woman still having an affair is never going to be able to rebuild what she destroyed.

Here's the thing; she says this shit. She said recently that she realized he was manipulative, that he was a piece of shit, and that she was done with him. She says that. She doesn't provide any evidence of it nor does she do any actions that either show me it's true or show me that she actually values me.

So putting him aside, it's still all about her. Her needs, her feeling protected, her secrets, her, her, her. So yeah, let's say it was all true. Fine. What then? I still have a selfish wife who doesn't value me at all and who only saw him as a piece of shit for reasons I'll never know (I would assume that he got sick of her, for example, not vice versa). It still does me and the marriage no good what so ever.

That's believing what she says, which I don't. It's just setting me up for D Day part three, Sharknado. Why continue to sign on for that? Maybe I'll never trust a future partner as I once did my wife, maybe that's okay, but I will certainly trust them more than I ever foresee trusting my wife again.

Keep doing the right things LO and you’ll find happiness again. She’s losing the best things that were ever in her life and for what, a loser who will never be who you were to her in life.

Take care.

Thanks man. You have been very helpful. Sorry if I'm coming off more hostile the necessary. I just feel like I'm trying to teach a child how to care about other people when I talk to her. An ornery child with behavior problems who shits all over the walls and then paints with it. A child that isn't mine that I can call the parents of and tell them that I am no longer interested in babysitting the child.

On the bright side, she has a doctor's appointment today for her suicidal thoughts. She also said, last night, after crying and saying she had ruined her life, her dreams, and that she was so sorry for hurting me, that she was able to live through her mother's death, so she should be able to live through this. She also said that I deserved someone better, that she'd never be able to forgive herself, and a lot of other things.

I tend to no longer believe her words, but I'm hoping she's telling the truth about believing that she'll be able to get over the dissolution of the marriage, as opposed to suicide. If she killed herself that would be a tremendous burden that she would, selfishly, be thrusting on the kids. Fucking monumentally unfair.

So she's going to counseling, going to the doctors, reading some books, and she's calling the EAP number when things get too dark for her. That's good.

On the bright side, she has a doctor's appointment today for her suicidal thoughts. She also said, last night, after crying and saying she had ruined her life, her dreams, and that she was so sorry for hurting me, that she was able to live through her mother's death, so she should be able to live through this. She also said that I deserved someone better, that she'd never be able to forgive herself, and a lot of other things.

She is right about one thing. You DO deserve someone better. Oh, and that ruining her life thing, too.

The problem is that it's all just words. She's saying what she thinks you want her to say. She's not actually DOING anything, though. A little late to the party to object to things,now. I'm really seeing what you mean by her fixation with marriage counseling as the cure all for this situation. What the hell would be your incentive? The marvelous life together she could promise you? I know that's rhetorical, we've discussed what she could promise as the "up side" of reconciliation before.

KingofNothing

She is right about one thing. You DO deserve someone better. Oh, and that ruining her life thing, too.

Yes. It doesn't have to be - she could actually put some effort in and change herself, change her life, etc. She ruined what we had. She has not ruined my life. I will rebuild, I will become better.

As for her, that's up to her. I suspect she won't change, but, being positive, hopefully she will.

The problem is that it's all just words. She's saying what she thinks you want her to say. She's not actually DOING anything, though.

Exactly. On the button. Her words are meaningless noises.

A little late to the party to object to things,now. I'm really seeing what you mean by her fixation with marriage counseling as the cure all for this situation. What the hell would be your incentive? The marvelous life together she could promise you? I know that's rhetorical, we've discussed what she could promise as the "up side" of reconciliation before.

I think she thinks that she will be able to say what she wants to say and the MC will get me to understand things? Get me to empathize with her? I don't know. I don't care. The fundamental problems are:

1. No trust. MC will not fix this, effort/action fix this.

2. She doesn't care about my needs at all. MC will not fix this, her actions could show that she cares, but her actions show she doesn't.

I think she's thinking that with MC she'll be able to tell me the whole truth about what happened. She's said flavors of that in the past. The problem is, this goes so far beyond my knowing all the details. She just doesn't get that.

You hit the nail on the head though, what's my incentive? I get to be paranoid nutcase who's self esteem is in the gutter for the rest of the marriage? I may have asked her something like that in the past, like, what do I get out of it. I can't remember.

Ultimately it doesn't matter. Trust, care, and empathy are the bedrocks of marriages/relationships. My marriage has none and only one of the partners was interested in restoring it. Now one partner realizes it's hopeless while the other is casting stones and praying for miracles with MC.

I said this before, but it feels like trying to talk a toddler into caring about another person.

Today's update:

In any event, I went home for lunch today. I had picked up some groceries and I needed to get them in the fridge. She's on the phone, I assume it's work. I put the stuff away and I'm about to leave. She mutes the phone. I ask her how was the doctors, she says she got a prescription. She says she's on the phone with the mortgage people about equity. I say 'great, I'll leave you to it' and I leave. I think she said something else but I couldn't really hear her. It was low and I think it was meant to be depressive or something like that.

Having to live with a betrayer awaiting a divorce is like having teeth pulled without anesthesia.

Smart move nixing the MC. Its not the fix all most think it is.

The marriage isn’t the problem. She is.

^^^^Concure^^^^

Buffer

thatbpguy

Having to live with a betrayer awaiting a divorce is like having teeth pulled without anesthesia.

I'd prefer that. I've suffered dental pain, it was a lot less confusing and a lot quicker.

Marz

Smart move nixing the MC. Its not the fix all most think it is.

The marriage isn’t the problem. She is.

Yes. I could say a lot of things, but it boils down to the fact that she doesn't value me as a person and is selfish. MC isn't going to fix this. IC might, after years fix the lack of empathy for other people - I was listening to something that said that it typically took narcissists 7 years of therapy to get out of their narcissistic ways and develop actual empathy for other people. As I said before, I wish her good luck in becoming a better person. She did get prescribed an anti-depressant/anti-anxiety medicine. So that's good.