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I didn't think you initiated the conversation with the WW, TheLostOne. She asked you replied. I also thought that the SIL who was crying wasn't the one who was the cheater.

I think you're doing very well. You are so much farther ahead of where I was so soon after DDay. I wasn't even functioning then.

Stay strong and clear headed. Carry on.

steadychevy

I didn't think you initiated the conversation with the WW, TheLostOne. She asked you replied. I also thought that the SIL who was crying wasn't the one who was the cheater.

I think you're doing very well. You are so much farther ahead of where I was so soon after DDay. I wasn't even functioning then.

Stay strong and clear headed. Carry on.

Ah, okay. Thanks.

Just for more insight - the SIL who came over has had a rough life. She often asks me about her choices. Doesn't really listen to me, but she'll ask and she has always appreciated how I talk with her. Her sisters - including my wife - are a lot more aggressive than I am when talking to her. The younger 'religious' SIL is incredibly aggressive - she talks at people, not with people. My wife's issue when talking is, ironically considering what she's said to me recently, that there's only 'one way' to do something properly. So if the SIL doesn't agree with her or does things differently, then the SIL is wrong.

Generally speaking I will go over the relevant factors and her various plans. I'll listen to her.

Anyway, she has been wrecked by cheating. Her husband, prior to marriage, was cheating on her at one point and had saved up enough money to get himself an apartment away from her. The SIL went to her other sister's (religious one) baby shower and that's when her (soon to be) husband moved all his shit out and into his new apartment.

They were 'split up' for about a month and then she moved into the apartment with him. They later got married. He eventually left her for someone he met at a nightly poker tournament.

She despises cheaters, but my wife is her sister, so she knows how this is all going to end.

I've been following your story and haven't replied yet. I just wanted to tell you that it's time for you to learn how to make your own pancakes. I agree, for scratch pancakes are THE BEST. My Dad used to make them. I never got his recipe before he died and I have been kicking myself for the last decade over that pancake recipe. I haven't been able to recreate it.

Also, ask your lawyer if you can have it put in the divorce papers that your STBXW will not be allowed to have the kids around her Dad at least until they turn 18 due to his history. I have no experience with this and I have no idea if this could possibly work but it's worth asking.

Lifeexploded

I've been following your story and haven't replied yet. I just wanted to tell you that it's time for you to learn how to make your own pancakes. I agree, for scratch pancakes are THE BEST. My Dad used to make them. I never got his recipe before he died and I have been kicking myself for the last decade over that pancake recipe. I haven't been able to recreate it.

My son (9) knows how to make them now...So perhaps that's the route I will take.

Also, ask your lawyer if you can have it put in the divorce papers that your STBXW will not be allowed to have the kids around her Dad at least until they turn 18 due to his history. I have no experience with this and I have no idea if this could possibly work but it's worth asking.

I'm going to bring this up with the mediator. I think it might be related to morality clauses. I think it's so much bullshit that I have to be concerned about this because who in their right mind would think contacting the Father is a good idea?

Oh, that's right, my soon to be ex wife. I forgot, reason and logic don't make it to the top floor anymore.

A little conversation in exchange for pancakes? That seems fair to me.

I didn't want to endanger my pancakes, man...

Priorities Brother, I get it.

I think all the stress and pushing it at the gym has taken a toll on me. I'm feeling a bit ill - also my emotions are a bit all over the place. Fear and sadness primarily. I know it's fear of change and sadness about everything and that these will pass. These are normal, so that helps.

Yesterday I was fixing myself lunch for today. My wife comes in and we talk briefly about something - I think it was what my son was doing after school, possibly about when his soccer is starting. Not a huge conversation, but she then starts in on her future about not being able to afford the gym, but needing exercise. I don't say much, but I say that my parents have a recumbent bike that they are getting rid of, does she want it?

It's coming from the room I'm going to be in when I move out. She gets upset and starts to 'pick' at my choices - I just shut her down, I said something like 'hey this is temporary, this is what has to be'. I then finished up and left the kitchen. Every time the topic of where I'm going comes up I feel better and better about my future choice. So that's good - it feels like reinforcement.

One week until Mediation. That's the beginning. That's my focus. I'm trying not to get hyped up. There's still a long journey to go and I don't know how this is going to shake out, but I feel like this is positive. It's like going before the parole board and telling them why I deserve to be given a second chance.

Not a totally apt analogy, but that's what it feels like.

sometime wayward consider the BS as a family member (a sibling) on whom they can rely upon regardless of what they are doing. Looks like your WW is in such a mind set. The connection she has towards you may have warped in to a that of a sibling while she is cheating with the POS

goalong

sometime wayward consider the BS as a family member (a sibling) on whom they can rely upon regardless of what they are doing. Looks like your WW is in such a mind set.

Actually that seems like a pretty good fit to what's going on with her. I think you are correct. Her 'other family' is practically gone. Mother's dead, her sisters can't help her (either fiscally or emotionally). Unfortunately I'm not a therapist, I'm not getting paid, and I'm not getting anything other than hurt in her 'arrangement' so...Imma have to bail on her little idea of a slice of Heaven. I'm reminded of Lacuna Coil's song 'Heaven's a lie', which is about a relationship and not actual theological stuff.

The connection she has towards you may have warped in to a that of a sibling while she is cheating with the POS

Yes, I think so - I'm fairly certain she has a Madonna-Whore complex with regard to me and that probably morphed me into some kind of 'loyal sibling' or whatever in her mind. I think you are on to something. Very astute.

"I did not get a choice on whether or not you had sex with another man during our marriage. You do not get a choice about how I deal with that." Then walk away.

Lifeexploded

"I did not get a choice on whether or not you had sex with another man during our marriage. You do not get a choice about how I deal with that." Then walk away.

That's good and basically my approach, when I realize that's what she's talking about. She wants to present me with all of these 'options' that COINCIDENTALLY align with her goal of keeping the kids away from my parents and keeping me from becoming more financially stable.

As I see it, I have two options:

1. Move in with my parents for a brief period.

2. Have her buy me out of the townhouse.

I already know she can't do 2, but if she brings it up I'll bring that option up. Hey, if she can pay me 40k then that would actually make me financially secure.

All her other options are garbage options as far as I'm concerned. I initially mentioned them weeks ago, back when I don't know, maybe I had hope? Maybe I didn't realize how destructive 'separate under one roof' would be to me?

I know myself better now, I can't do that. I can't continue like this in that house. I have to get away and not see her, period. Yeah, we have kids - so I will have to see her occasionally - kids soccer games, school stuff, and possibly the 'trade offs' at the house. I'm willing to do that.

I am not willing to walk into a house, go to my room, and listen to her drive off to meet her fuck boi. Sorry, that's not something I'm signing up for. I mean, shit, she could be sneaking away now and doing that - but it's a different kettle of fish than me 'accepting' that as my life now.

I have no reason to do that. Yeah, I will have to rebuild, but living with my parents will help me do that. Yeah, I have pain ahead of me, but I'll have support from family and friends.

This is hard, the hardest thing I've ever done, but I can do this. I will do this. I am doing this. She will inevitably take metaphoric chunks of skin off of me as I rip away from her claws. I'll heal.

"I did not get a choice on whether or not you had sex with another man during our marriage. You do not get a choice about how I deal with that."

That's everything in a nutshell, right there.

^^^ Concure ^^^

Buffer

Lost, you're lucky, I didn't get concrete proof my ex was really cheating until 3 months AFTER we divorced. That's when I found out she'd had 3 lovers in the 4 years we'd been married. That doesn't count the 1 BEFORE we got married.

That really fucked me up for a while. You're doing very very well. I think that the plan you have formed and with the genuinely expert advice here, you're going to be fine. Just stick to your plan.

One thing I think you absolutely must do is get a VAR. You're on the cusp, from your own description of being accused of DA.

How are you doing?

Yeah, we have kids - so I will have to see her occasionally - kids soccer games, school stuff, and possibly the 'trade offs' at the house. I'm willing to do that.

You may have to be in the same area but that doesn’t mean you have to engage. You control that.

Google grey rocking and parallel parenting.

If not you will just give up headspace and linger in this.

Okay so we have some new developments. First and foremost my son asked wife if we were getting a divorce. He was concerned and said that ‘we never fight’ and a bunch of other things. My wife told him that she didn’t know, we might. He didn’t ask me but that was difficult to listen to her explain it - I had his face in my head. It is what it is though. My wife sent me something yesterday about really wanting to fix things, about counseling, about core issues and how she failed me. That she was trying and she couldn’t do it alone – she needed my help, she was scared. She ALSO said that we had some core issues that I needed to address though, which was disappointing, but not unexpected. Cheaters handbook 101.

I told her that fixing the infidelity comes first and that I will not accept anything less – that it’s my way or no way. I said that I don’t know if I can get over the infidelity issue, it has to be the priority because if I can’t or if she fails then there is no fixing whatever was broken in the marriage. It’s pointless to focus on that. She cried. She said she was freaking out, that she needed help.

I get home, she comes up to talk. I told her that if she wanted help then she had to do my list of needs. Continue with the IC (which she is). That after that, I can contact another counselor or we can plan other things. I told her there are no slip ups, it’s all or nothing. I also told her this is all ASAP. I then left (to get myself some food) and went to sleep. I woke up at 230 cause that’s how I roll now and she was sleeping on the floor, which is sort of on the list – my son was in the bed, so she couldn’t exactly sleep there.

I think this is because mediation is coming up on Tuesday. This is her last ditch attempt. Regardless of the list or not we are still going to mediation. I am getting that done and if, after 8 weeks, we are in a better spot then I just won’t pay the $700 for the lawyers to file it. I’ll have it ready to go though because I doubt we will be in a better spot. The reality is that I have no faith in her at all. The reality is that I fully expect her not to do a damned thing. The reality is that I don't know if she suddenly becomes remorseful whether that will effect me at all. Do I want to play ‘hall monitor’ for the rest of my life? Even if she does everything – the damage is immense. How could I trust her again?

I'm basically going to continue forward the way I've been going. Nothing has really changed, in my opinion, just some more words.

Edit: On a side note, I did see that she got me something for Valentine's Day, which I find bizarre, to be honest. It's just a box of chocolates. A sad token of manipulation, probably.

[This message edited by TheLostOne2020 at 9:45 AM, February 14th (Friday)]

I told her that fixing the infidelity comes first and that I will not accept anything less – that it’s my way or no way. I said that I don’t know if I can get over the infidelity issue, it has to be the priority because if I can’t or if she fails then there is no fixing whatever was broken in the marriage.

Good answer. You're keeping your options open and I think that's a good strategy this early on. I also agree that it's a good plan to continue on in the mediation. Your WW needs to really let it sink in that this divorce is happening if she doesn't get real about R. Doing the actual math of separation is a whopping dose of reality.

I might be running behind the curve, but what's happening on the NC front with her AP? Has she established an end to contact and any means of accountability??

ChamomileTea

Good answer. You're keeping your options open and I think that's a good strategy this early on.

I'll be honest, I'm actually angry at myself for keeping my options open. I feel like it's a fruitless endeavor and just a mistake.

I also agree that it's a good plan to continue on in the mediation. Your WW needs to really let it sink in that this divorce is happening if she doesn't get real about R. Doing the actual math of separation is a whopping dose of reality.

Yeah, also there's no way I'd reset that clock.

I might be running behind the curve, but what's happening on the NC front with her AP? Has she established an end to contact and any means of accountability??

I'm not entirely sure - we talked fairly late for me and it wasn't a long conversation. It was basically me re-iterating what needed to happen with regard to the list. I'm assuming she talked to him that night since I have no faith in her. The means of accountability and such are part of the list but I also said that she needed to convince me that she was serious. Edit: The conversation was she wanted to fix it, I told her that this is how it was, and then I left (grabbed food, went to sleep).

She's done neither currently, but I haven't talked to her today.

[This message edited by TheLostOne2020 at 9:55 AM, February 14th (Friday)]

I told her that if she wanted help then she had to do my list of needs. Continue with the IC (which she is). That after that, I can contact another counselor or we can plan other things. I told her there are no slip ups, it’s all or nothing. I also told her this is all ASAP. I then left (to get myself some food) and went to sleep.

I would be wary of giving her a lot of false hopes. You know her best.

I woke up at 230 cause that’s how I roll now and she was sleeping on the floor, which is sort of on the list – my son was in the bed, so she couldn’t exactly sleep there.

It's a hell of a thing having to wake up and watch the replay in your head of this garbage in the middle of the night. That still happens.

Sleeping on the floor? Seriously? That's supposed to impress you with her devotion at the 11th hour? Well, you know her best.