SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Ugh. Any wayward that claims they need help from their BS,after all the trauma they've caused, really pisses me off.

They sure as Hell managed to have an affair,and keep it secret, without their spouse's help.

Is she stupid? Does she not have access to the internet? Can she not Google how to help heal the damage caused by an affair?

Give her your list of requirements, and watch what she does. But do not help her. She's a big girl. She can either do the heavy lifting, or she won't. And,if she won't, or you have to pull her through this process, then you have no choice but divorce.

I also think you need to think long,and hard, as to why she now wants to try to reconcile. Is it because she doesn't want the kids to know what she's done? Is it because she will struggle financially? Is it because she is worried your parents may talk bad about her to the kids? Is it because OM doesn't want her? Because if it's any reason other than she loves you, any attempt at reconciliation will be false,and will fail.

[This message edited by HellFire at 11:01 AM, February 14th (Friday)]

Good job LostOne. You’ve absorbed a lot and ingrained it into your thinking and it’s serving you well. Keep it up.

The list of requirements remains important. But if I were to highlight one thing in it (hopefully it’s in it) it would be this by saying to her:

“Until you can convince me that you no longer love the OM, no longer care for him, and only see him as a man who helped you destroy your family, then we have little more to discuss. Not only do you need to end contact in anyway way with him thru any method externally, you also need him out of your head emotionally if you ever want to be my partner again.

Until that happens, and you see him as the threat to our relationship that he truly is, then have I no choice to move on without you. There are a lot of things you will need to do to rebuild our relationship, but none are more important than the fact that you still love that piece of shit, and it’s obvious thru your words and actions that you love him more than me. “

Honestly that’s the only message I would be conveying to her LostOne. No other work can truly begin until she sees him for what he truly is. Working on a marriage with someone who can’t let go of her feelings for another man is like trying to repair a boat in the water from underneath with anchors and cinder blocks tied to your feet.

You’re doing the right thing. Keep moving forward until a truly remorseful WS finally shows up. And even then, I’d not stop the D process. Only if you felt it was truly worth it would I recommend you give her a chance to concurrently prove her commitment to rebuilding, healing and finally providing a safe environment.

Stay strong.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 11:19 AM, February 14th (Friday)]

Honestly that’s the only message I would be conveying to her LostOne. No other work can truly begin until she sees him for what he truly is. Working on a marriage with someone who can’t let go of her feelings for another man is like trying to repair a boat in the water from underneath with anchors and cinder blocks tied to your feet.

Stevens, you're a sharp guy and have a very eloquent way of summing up the situation. I enjoy reading your posts. I have to wonder how many times TLone has communicated that very sentiment to his WW and she has responded by either weeping more or telling him how much she's hurting and needs help. I've pondered her responses and shared my thoughts privately with TLone-- namely that she doesn't appear to be processing guilt the way a normal person does. Like there's a blank spot where empathy for another human being is concerned. She can't claim that TLone hasn't communicated the damage she's done, she just doesn't acknowledge it at all. It's hardly unique for the aftermath of an affair to become acrimonious and devolve into a muddied pit of miscommunication, but until she starts listening and not reacting with how it's impacting her, I don't know if ANY statement is getting through that skull of hers. I mean that with the utmost respect-- I just wonder how effective it is any more. I'm picturing her just blankly listening then immediately going off on a tangent about HER pain and HER inconvenience about the divorce.

TLone, best of luck going into mediation. It might be exactly what you need right now.

Oh no King, I totally agree with you. I dont think it does get thru at all. All I’m saying is that if he is going to feel he needs to respond, be consistent in the message and just state the bottom line, that it’s not enough to stop talking to or seeing the AP, more importantly she needs to stop caring about him before any real work can be started, let alone done.

So if he’s going to say anything, it should be that basic message only. If she doesn’t get that, there’s nothing more to say.

But until she shows up truly doing and saying the right things, sticking to kids and finances is probably the best approach, I agree.

Stevens did hit the nail on the head.

Not to be a nay sayer, but here is my crystal ball.

They fight in mediation. They eventually come to a basic conclusion he isn't happy about. He sits on it for more than 8 weeks. Probably siting his son. She slips up and tells him something else she did bad (like talk to AP) and he files the divorce.

Then when he is gone, she tries to get with the loser. She does what all WS do and try to picture a marriage with this dirt bag. She sees how fucked she is.

Then she runs back to LO as fast as possible. It is all going to hinge on how disconnected he becomes in the time she is away from him.

He is angry now. That drives action. If she wakes up before he hits the, "Wow, my whole marriage has been unfair and all because of WS." that is when things get complicated.

Here's to healing as fast as possible!

I'll be honest, I'm actually angry at myself for keeping my options open. I feel like it's a fruitless endeavor and just a mistake.

If you've ruled out R under any circumstances, you're completely within your rights to do so. Cheaters KNOW what they're risking. They do. And none are owed a second chance.

That said, you're only six weeks out. It's super early for you and so far, you've handled this thing like a boss. You needn't be angry with yourself for keeping your options open though. Sometimes a WS actually DOES turn it around, and you might not know today how you would feel about that. Maybe it wouldn't make a difference, but maybe it would.

I'm not trying to influence you either way, only saying that it's OKAY to not know what you want right now. You don't have to feel bad about that, and you're past the point where you needed to prove to your WW that you mean business. I do think though, that if you haven't completely ruled out R, it can't hurt to find out what's going on in terms of NC with the AP.

KingofNothing

I would be wary of giving her a lot of false hopes. You know her best.

I'm actually kind of worried about that. I'm already feeling regretful.

It's a hell of a thing having to wake up and watch the replay in your head of this garbage in the middle of the night. That still happens.

It does, but in fairness I've been going to sleep earlier. So while I do have that garbage waking me up, it's not every morning. I kind of like going to the gym at early O'Clock. Edit: When I was going to the gym regularly 2 years ago I would generally get up between 330 and 4.

Sleeping on the floor? Seriously? That's supposed to impress you with her devotion at the 11th hour? Well, you know her best.

Maybe? I don't know. While it's important to me, in the list of needs department it's fairly low on the list. It doesn't take a lot of effort from her.So it's not impressive. It's like the STD test, only a bit worse since any sensible person would get an STD test after sleeping with that dirt bag.

HellFire

Ugh. Any wayward that claims they need help from their BS,after all the trauma they've caused, really pisses me off.

They sure as Hell managed to have an affair,and keep it secret, without their spouse's help.

It annoys me too. It, and other things, have been digging at my craw the whole day.

Is she stupid? Does she not have access to the internet? Can she not Google how to help heal the damage caused by an affair?

Lazy, not stupid.

Give her your list of requirements, and watch what she does. But do not help her. She's a big girl. She can either do the heavy lifting, or she won't. And,if she won't, or you have to pull her through this process, then you have no choice but divorce.

She has it. I will not be pulling her through the process.

I also think you need to think long,and hard, as to why she now wants to try to reconcile. Is it because she doesn't want the kids to know what she's done? Is it because she will struggle financially? Is it because she is worried your parents may talk bad about her to the kids? Is it because OM doesn't want her? Because if it's any reason other than she loves you, any attempt at reconciliation will be false,and will fail.

Well, right now I think she wants to reconcile because:

1. She can't split the finances (or possibly she doesn't want to, even though she's financially able - not quite sure about that).

2. Afraid of Super Tuesday and the beginning of the end.

3. The kids are in there too - but I think the top two are her immediate concerns.

But hey, maybe she's legit! Again, I doubt it. I would not place money on it.

Stevesn

Good job LostOne. You’ve absorbed a lot and ingrained it into your thinking and it’s serving you well. Keep it up.

Yes, thank you.

The list of requirements remains important. But if I were to highlight one thing in it (hopefully it’s in it) it would be this by saying to her:

“Until you can convince me that you no longer love the OM, no longer care for him, and only see him as a man who helped you destroy your family, then we have little more to discuss. Not only do you need to end contact in anyway way with him thru any method externally, you also need him out of your head emotionally if you ever want to be my partner again.

Until that happens, and you see him as the threat to our relationship that he truly is, then have I no choice to move on without you. There are a lot of things you will need to do to rebuild our relationship, but none are more important than the fact that you still love that piece of shit, and it’s obvious thru your words and actions that you love him more than me. “

Definitely - that's good. I did say that she had to hate him as much as I did in order for anything to go forward.

Honestly that’s the only message I would be conveying to her LostOne. No other work can truly begin until she sees him for what he truly is. Working on a marriage with someone who can’t let go of her feelings for another man is like trying to repair a boat in the water from underneath with anchors and cinder blocks tied to your feet.

Definitely - it, the affair, all of it has to be priority one.

You’re doing the right thing. Keep moving forward until a truly remorseful WS finally shows up. And even then, I’d not stop the D process. Only if you felt it was truly worth it would I recommend you give her a chance to concurrently prove her commitment to rebuilding, healing and finally providing a safe environment.

Stay strong.

Thanks.

Honestly I'm second guessing myself and feel like I could be getting buyers remorse, so to speak. I'm actually a little worried that she does become truly remorseful. Right now it's been easy in one respect - there's no other option for me but to divorce. I'm concerned about KingofNothing's point about giving her false hope.

KingofNothing

Stevens, you're a sharp guy and have a very eloquent way of summing up the situation. I enjoy reading your posts. I have to wonder how many times TLone has communicated that very sentiment to his WW and she has responded by either weeping more or telling him how much she's hurting and needs help. I've pondered her responses and shared my thoughts privately with TLone-- namely that she doesn't appear to be processing guilt the way a normal person does. Like there's a blank spot where empathy for another human being is concerned. She can't claim that TLone hasn't communicated the damage she's done, she just doesn't acknowledge it at all. It's hardly unique for the aftermath of an affair to become acrimonious and devolve into a muddied pit of miscommunication, but until she starts listening and not reacting with how it's impacting her, I don't know if ANY statement is getting through that skull of hers. I mean that with the utmost respect-- I just wonder how effective it is any more. I'm picturing her just blankly listening then immediately going off on a tangent about HER pain and HER inconvenience about the divorce.

TLone, best of luck going into mediation. It might be exactly what you need right now.

She's done it a few times. With regard to the damage she's done in the initial message she sent me about wanting to fix things she did say that she knew that I was suffering. She said this because in one of our previous talks I had said something to the effect that if she thinks I'm not hurt then she's absurd because I haven't been sleeping well, I haven't been eating a lot, I have intrusive thoughts, I have nightmares, etc. In yesterdays communication she said that she something like she knew she was the bad guy and that she hurt me and that she never denied my suffering.

Only she had, a few times. Ex. She said in a text to her Aunt that 'I wasn't dying'. She said in one of the earlier texts to me something like 'You are happy that this is over, you are relieved' and that sort of thing. Not exactly sympathetic to me, but also said out of anger.

I do feel that she's more reacting than actually listening. I do feel that nothing is really penetrating her skull. That all said, when we did briefly talk she had a little note pad with some of the things I had said in it and her responses/what she had to say about them. It seems like she's been keeping a journal.

Stevesn

Oh no King, I totally agree with you. I dont think it does get thru at all. All I’m saying is that if he is going to feel he needs to respond, be consistent in the message and just state the bottom line, that it’s not enough to stop talking to or seeing the AP, more importantly she needs to stop caring about him before any real work can be started, let alone done.

So if he’s going to say anything, it should be that basic message only. If she doesn’t get that, there’s nothing more to say.

But until she shows up truly doing and saying the right things, sticking to kids and finances is probably the best approach, I agree.

I agree with this. I realize I probably should have asked about the AP yesterday night. I will talk to her about it today.

DoinBettr

Stevens did hit the nail on the head.

Not to be a nay sayer, but here is my crystal ball.

Be a nay sayer - I don't have faith at the moment.

They fight in mediation. They eventually come to a basic conclusion he isn't happy about. He sits on it for more than 8 weeks. Probably siting his son. She slips up and tells him something else she did bad (like talk to AP) and he files the divorce.

Mediation is in place of lawyers - her and I come to an agreement about how to split property and custody. Supposedly it's two sessions (2-3 hours each), two weeks apart. Then the mediator types up an agreement. We get an hour of 'editing' time. She gives us the agreement. We then take it to a lawyer who files it for us.

Then when he is gone, she tries to get with the loser. She does what all WS do and try to picture a marriage with this dirt bag. She sees how fucked she is.

I'm guessing this, yes.

Then she runs back to LO as fast as possible.

Also this.

It is all going to hinge on how disconnected he becomes in the time she is away from him.

Eh, maybe - I do not have a good track record with breakups. All of my breakups have been final. In fact, all of them have been final and I have gone no contact. This one will be the only anomaly since we have children.

He is angry now. That drives action. If she wakes up before he hits the, "Wow, my whole marriage has been unfair and all because of WS." that is when things get complicated.

Here's to healing as fast as possible!

Yes. I will heal with or without her. It looks like without her.

On the one hand, I feel like it's obvious that she's not interested in truly trying to fight for this marriage. On the other hand, I'm getting nervous that she might be. I'm afraid that's telling me something that I really need to listen to.

[This message edited by TheLostOne2020 at 2:25 PM, February 14th (Friday)]

ChamomileTea

If you've ruled out R under any circumstances, you're completely within your rights to do so. Cheaters KNOW what they're risking. They do. And none are owed a second chance.

Yes, you are correct.

That said, you're only six weeks out. It's super early for you and so far, you've handled this thing like a boss. You needn't be angry with yourself for keeping your options open though. Sometimes a WS actually DOES turn it around, and you might not know today how you would feel about that. Maybe it wouldn't make a difference, but maybe it would.

Here's the thing - I don't want to stall the mediation. I do not want to have to wait 8 more weeks past whatever time I stall. I need to figure my shit out. All today I've been asking myself why I even said those things to her yesterday. You are right, it's super early for me.

UGH.

I'm not trying to influence you either way, only saying that it's OKAY to not know what you want right now. You don't have to feel bad about that, and you're past the point where you needed to prove to your WW that you mean business. I do think though, that if you haven't completely ruled out R, it can't hurt to find out what's going on in terms of NC with the AP.

I appreciate that, I really do. Right now I feel somewhat safe because I don't think she's legitimate about being remorseful - I think she's scared about Tuesday and splitting the finances and eventually telling the kids.

Have I completely ruled out R? I said some shit last night that indicates I haven't, but all today I've been kind of scared of the thought that she might be legit about R.

I know you are correct. This is early and where people generally are at my stage. I just don't want to stop the clock for the mediator - I don't think I have to, because I think we can get the document from the mediator and then just not go to the lawyer to process it. So I technically have 8 weeks. I don't have to panic now about it.

… I've been kind of scared of the thought that she might be legit about R.

Here's the good news about that... Even if your WW does get serious about R, you are NOT required to commit to it until YOU are comfortable. I think you're absolutely RIGHT to go forward with mediation. I think it's either a great wake-up call to your WW or a good start at getting your D rolling. No way would I cancel that appointment.

Just as a bit of an overview on what R might look like though and NOT as advice...

Like you, I was swinging for the fence on D. I'd already started the 180 even though I didn't know what it was yet, and within just about a week or so, my WH worked up the nerve to ask if there was a chance, could I put it off for 30 days and give him time to prove he was serious? I said yes because I hadn't even hired an attorney yet so, why not? He, of course, used that time to try to wriggle out from under the last of the OW, letting her down gently or whatever, but NOT doing the NC he had promised. At that point, he had about 30 seconds to be "all in" or "all out". And that INCLUDED adhering to all my boundaries regarding NC and transparency. For my part, I was observing, not committed.

After a couple months of that, doing therapy, talking daily, etc., I was ready to dip a toe into the R pool. This is NOT something that I feel committed to at this point. I'm still on the fence, and by God, I LIVED on that fence for probably the first couple of years... even as I was moving forward in R. While it's true that your WS needs to be all in, your participation would feel a whole lot like "fake it 'til you make it". At first it's just a matter of trying. You don't really feel committed to it that early, and that's okay. As a BS, it's common to feel like you've got one foot out the door for a very long time, until you start really feeling secure again.

Anyway, I just wanted to give you a quick overview. On first blush, for most people who are newly betrayed, it kind of feels like you have to make an either/or decision. But it's not like that. It's so much more incremental.

ChamomileTea

Here's the good news about that... Even if your WW does get serious about R, you are NOT required to commit to it until YOU are comfortable. I think you're absolutely RIGHT to go forward with mediation. I think it's either a great wake-up call to your WW or a good start at getting your D rolling. No way would I cancel that appointment.

I feel like I need to get this tattooed on my hand. I'm totally going forward with mediation - I need to. I feel that in the center of my bones. My logical side of my brain is just screaming at me 'Danger Will Robinson, she's full of shit, she's full of shit'. My logical side of my brain is saying 'protect yourself, screw that emotional pink hamburger in the back of your skull'.

Just as a bit of an overview on what R might look like though and NOT as advice...

Like you, I was swinging for the fence on D. I'd already started the 180 even though I didn't know what it was yet, and within just about a week or so, my WH worked up the nerve to ask if there was a chance, could I put it off for 30 days and give him time to prove he was serious? I said yes because I hadn't even hired an attorney yet so, why not? He, of course, used that time to try to wriggle out from under the last of the OW, letting her down gently or whatever, but NOT doing the NC he had promised. At that point, he had about 30 seconds to be "all in" or "all out". And that INCLUDED adhering to all my boundaries regarding NC and transparency. For my part, I was observing, not committed.

I feel like that's going to be the case here too.

After a couple months of that, doing therapy, talking daily, etc., I was ready to dip a toe into the R pool. This is NOT something that I feel committed to at this point. I'm still on the fence, and by God, I LIVED on that fence for probably the first couple of years... even as I was moving forward in R. While it's true that your WS needs to be all in, your participation would feel a whole lot like "fake it 'til you make it". At first it's just a matter of trying. You don't really feel committed to it that early, and that's okay. As a BS, it's common to feel like you've got one foot out the door for a very long time, until you start really feeling secure again.

That sounds like a fair approach - granted I'm not sure I'd be able to straddle the fence for a year.

Anyway, I just wanted to give you a quick overview. On first blush, for most people who are newly betrayed, it kind of feels like you have to make an either/or decision. But it's not like that. It's so much more incremental.

I appreciate that. I appreciate knowing that it's more incremental because it feels very solid, very Yes/No.

Lost

You should be concerned that she still tells you things you need to change in order for her to agree to everything. A cheater with such mind set is neither committed nor care about the BS. Such discussions should have happened before she decided to cheat.

[This message edited by goalong at 7:33 AM, February 15th (Saturday)]

Posted by Goalong

You should be concerned that she still tells you things you need to change in order for her to agree to everything. A cheater with such mind set is neither committed nor care about the BS. Such discussions should have happened before she decided to cheat.

This is an excellent point made by Goalong. Reflecting on Goalong's comments, if your WW makes demands of you to make any changes, she is simply providing herself with justification for her cheating. She believes that it was your fault that she cheated. If you had only been a better husband, more attentive, blah, blah, she would not have cheated. Actually, she thinks she was forced by your deficiencies to cheat. Pure, direct DARVO. Rather, she was 100% responsible for her own acts. You can consider her comments at some time in the future if you think they are relevant and sincere, but her remorse must be unconditional and she should be sensitive enough to know that her comments about you are inappropriate until she has earned your respect and become worthy of your attention.

She should fix herself first. People who live in glass houses should not throw stones (as they say). She needs to spend all the energy she has to focus on her significant deficiencies that allowed herself to betray her husband and not worry about any of your petty faux pas.

[This message edited by PassThis at 8:01 AM, February 15th (Saturday)]

Lost,

As has been pointed out, it has been less than six weeks since you found out. So lets put aside all the extraneous shit and recap where you are at.

Here is what her actions have been

(1) told you she had feeling so strong for him that she did not think she could give him up

(2) Went out New Years and probably had sex with him

(3) refused multiple times No Contact

(4) Insists, and still insists on breaking it off on her terms, but still is lying and is in contact with him

(5) has probably been with him again

(6) has spoken to him about when and how she was going to dump you, all since D Day and you have heard that with your own ears

(7) wasted your time on an idiot therapist who basically told her to make a big sacrifice and not to contact him for a short time.

(8) refused total transparency

(9) refused polygraph

(10) lied to relatives

And lo and behold, three days before mediation wants to keep talking and STILL has not offered a damm thing.

If anyone can find anything in her actions to reconcile with, please post it, especially with an OM a very short driving distance away.

This is in my opinion another situation where the behavior AFTER D Day actually did more to destroy a relationship than the actual cheating itself.

You will be on social security before you will ever feel safe again and not be looking over your shoulder. This OM obviously has not done anything but pursue her sexually because if he had she would have left.

Run my friend and do not look back. You have a plan to escape, have supportive parents, and you will come out on the other side whole again, but not with her.

Please Read BR's post AGAIN.

See what is not what you want to see.

LostOne

chamomileTea and BR have given you very good thoughts and I agree you should absorb them.

To add on to their field of thought I give you this.

The mistake many BS make is to think that at even the very HINT of remorse they all of a sudden have to stop everything they are doing that helps themselves and try and assist the WS to find that remorse. To me, that’s the absolute wrong thing to do.

In almost every case we have seen here on SI of successful reconciliation the two spouses, after infidelity, need to work on themselves in order to recover from such a pain time in their relationship.

This could take months. With the only caveat being that while working on themselves it is the WS that needs to do the additional task of supporting the BS in their healing.

Your WW has done NONE of this. She is still at square one.

Even if she became the highest functioning WW tomorrow, if she became Mrs Walloped or any of the experienced and understanding WS’s on Wayward Side, that would not mean one thing about you or your path on day one, or day 20 or day 50 of your plan right now.

She has so so so so much work to do. You don’t just stop everything at the hint that she may be realizing what she’s losing and what she has done? You don’t even stop if she does 10 things on your list. Continue what you are doing.

As I have said, the hardest thing she has to do is STOP LOVING HIM and BEGIN HATING HIM. That will take months or years by all indications. And so best to continue to tell her what we’ve been saying all along.

“I’m heartbroken, you love him and not me, I wish you well”.

And if you really feel the need to, you can add “when you’ve figured out what’s real and he’s out of your blood, brain and body, give me a call, and depending on where I am in my life, I’ll call back”.

That’s it. You don’t need to fear it LO. It’s not going to happen. Either not ever, or not for a very long time.

No changes now. Keep doing you.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 3:40 PM, February 15th (Saturday)]

As I have said, the hardest thing she has to do is STOP LOVING HIM and BEGIN HATING HIM. That will take months or years by all indications. And so best to continue to tell her what we’ve been saying all along.

You nailed it, Stevens. Perfect.

I'm so not feeling things with her. I feeling like my emotions were wrapped up in the insane pick me game or something. I'm doing my best to just take my time but I so just want to take the 'option' off the table.

I talked to my wife a bit today - she was talking about my son. He had asked about divorce and - at a prior point - he apparently over heard us talking. She says that he knows that 'someone has someone else' or something to that effect.

I'm not sure if I mentioned it, but the affair partner apparently sent my wife flowers for Valentine's day. She threw them in the garbage, but my son saw them. She told him they were from my Aunt - he wanted to keep them, but she said no.

She says she ended it with the guy - recently. I have no evidence or proof. I find the flowers an in your face escalation - my wife is worried about them but thinks I'm over-reacting. She thinks he was 'just being stupid', which is bullshit. That it's 'just one thing and it's not indicative of a pattern or anything'. I told her that she was very poor at judging threats. I'm not talking about physical threats, to be clear, but I said that she didn't think talking to him in the beginning was a 'threat', even after I found out, she lied about it and went underground. I told her that she didn't think talking to her father was a 'threat'. She didn't like either of those examples but didn't argue.

I just don't care about reconciling anymore. I talked with some friends of mine last night and this morning. I took the infidelity out of it and really examined the situation. My wife is depressed and has been for a long time. She doesn't do shit about it on her own. I have to suggest/hand hold her. To be fair, she's been going to the IC on her own, but I prodded her into looking for one. She is different than who she was. I don't particularly like the 'new' her. I was rolling over it and over it in my head and through my friends. I know I don't have to make any sort of snap decisions. I have time, but I just feel so sad and over it, if that makes sense. Maybe it's just a new phase or whatever. I look at what I have to face - IF SHE is 100% committed - years (forever?) of not trusting her. Years of therapy. Years of not only bad romantic decisions but bad decisions period. Years of having mental pictures, of hearing her voice in my head, of the anguish that comes along with all of this. Years and years of this and what's my upside? I feel like we've grown apart ASIDE from the infidelity. History? Is that it? She's familiar? She's a warm body?

The kids tear me up but I know that I cannot stick it out for them. They already know something is up, that mommy and daddy aren't getting along. Imagine 5 more years of this? It would only get worse.

goalong

You should be concerned that she still tells you things you need to change in order for her to agree to everything. A cheater with such mind set is neither committed nor care about the BS. Such discussions should have happened before she decided to cheat.

I am very concerned about that. I'm concerned that her heart isn't in it for to really give 100%. I'm about 99% sure she's doing all this in order to keep the status quo. I've told her repeatedly that infidelity is the priority - she seems to agree...on the surface.

PassThis

This is an excellent point made by Goalong. Reflecting on Goalong's comments, if your WW makes demands of you to make any changes, she is simply providing herself with justification for her cheating. She believes that it was your fault that she cheated. If you had only been a better husband, more attentive, blah, blah, she would not have cheated. Actually, she thinks she was forced by your deficiencies to cheat. Pure, direct DARVO. Rather, she was 100% responsible for her own acts. You can consider her comments at some time in the future if you think they are relevant and sincere, but her remorse must be unconditional and she should be sensitive enough to know that her comments about you are inappropriate until she has earned your respect and become worthy of your attention.

I feel like if she didn't say anything she would still believe it, deep inside. Like, she wouldn't say that to me but she would believe it internally.

She should fix herself first. People who live in glass houses should not throw stones (as they say). She needs to spend all the energy she has to focus on her significant deficiencies that allowed herself to betray her husband and not worry about any of your petty faux pas.

She needs to fix herself first. The infidelity comes first - shit, she needs to fix herself period.

BeyondRage

As has been pointed out, it has been less than six weeks since you found out. So lets put aside all the extraneous shit and recap where you are at.

Has it? Damn, it feels like forever.

Here is what her actions have been

(1) told you she had feeling so strong for him that she did not think she could give him up

(2) Went out New Years and probably had sex with him

(3) refused multiple times No Contact

(4) Insists, and still insists on breaking it off on her terms, but still is lying and is in contact with him

(5) has probably been with him again

(6) has spoken to him about when and how she was going to dump you, all since D Day and you have heard that with your own ears

(7) wasted your time on an idiot therapist who basically told her to make a big sacrifice and not to contact him for a short time.

(8) refused total transparency

(9) refused polygraph

(10) lied to relatives

With regard to 2, she definitely had sex on New Years, I think you are thinking of later on when she 'had to see him face to face to break up'. Same difference though.

And lo and behold, three days before mediation wants to keep talking and STILL has not offered a damm thing.

Right, imagine that - suddenly she's on board. I don't buy it at all.

If anyone can find anything in her actions to reconcile with, please post it, especially with an OM a very short driving distance away.

This is in my opinion another situation where the behavior AFTER D Day actually did more to destroy a relationship than the actual cheating itself.

You will be on social security before you will ever feel safe again and not be looking over your shoulder. This OM obviously has not done anything but pursue her sexually because if he had she would have left.

Run my friend and do not look back. You have a plan to escape, have supportive parents, and you will come out on the other side whole again, but not with her.

Yes, I'm not stopping the mediation. Right now I'm not really considering reconciliation - I'm keeping the 'option' open. I guess, but I don't really feel I am.

Marz

See what is not what you want to see.

I'm trying to.

Stevesn

chamomileTea and BR have given you very good thoughts and I agree you should absorb them.

To add on to their field of thought I give you this.

The mistake many BS make is to think that at even the very HINT of remorse they all of a sudden have to stop everything they are doing that helps themselves and try and assist the WS to find that remorse. To me, that’s the absolute wrong thing to do.

Yes, I agree. I'm not stopping the mediation. I think you are right - trying to help her change or 'find remorse' is fruitless.

In almost every case we have seen here on SI of successful reconciliation the two spouses, after infidelity, need to work on themselves in order to recover from such a pain time in their relationship.

This could take months. With the only caveat being that while working on themselves it is the WS that needs to do the additional task of supporting the BS in their healing.

Your WW has done NONE of this. She is still at square one.

She is, yes.

Even if she became the highest functioning WW tomorrow, if she became Mrs Walloped or any of the experienced and understanding WS’s on Wayward Side, that would not mean one thing about you or your path on day one, or day 20 or day 50 of your plan right now.

She has so so so so much work to do. You don’t just stop everything at the hint that she may be realizing what she’s losing and what she has done? You don’t even stop if she does 10 things on your list. Continue what you are doing.

As I have said, the hardest thing she has to do is STOP LOVING HIM and BEGIN HATING HIM. That will take months or years by all indications. And so best to continue to tell her what we’ve been saying all along.

She doesn't hate him, I'm certain of that.

“I’m heartbroken, you love him and not me, I wish you well”.

And if you really feel the need to, you can add “when you’ve figured out what’s real and he’s out of your blood, brain and body, give me a call, and depending on where I am in my life, I’ll call back”.

That’s it. You don’t need to fear it LO. It’s not going to happen. Either not ever, or not for a very long time.

No changes now. Keep doing you.

I'm sitting here thinking that I should have kept my mouth shut the other day. That it doesn't matter what she says, feels, or wants. It really doesn't.

She can promise and deliver the world, I don't think I want it. I feel like I got briefly sucked into thinking I'd won the pick me game (I mean, I didn't, to be clear, just talking about a stupid feeling) and just went that direction - I've regretted it every since. I'm trying not to just react too quickly but the urge is overwhelming. I just want to end it. I CAN'T literally just end it quickly though, I have to go through this torture of mediation.

I need to keep my head. I don't even really want to talk to her anymore.

Edit: Maybe it's transitory or whatever, but all day and last night I haven't felt angry about the situation really. I've felt sad, foolish, but not really angry. It kind of feels like I want her to be someone else's problem.

[This message edited by TheLostOne2020 at 5:13 PM, February 15th (Saturday)]

I'm sitting here thinking that I should have kept my mouth shut the other day.

No problem there since unlike others you are the one emotionally involved and sometime feeling for everything to become normal is natural.

However settle this thing ASAP is emotionally good for you.

goalong

No problem there since unlike others you are the one emotionally involved and sometime feeling for everything to become normal is natural.

Thank you, I really appreciate that. Seriously.

However settle this thing ASAP is emotionally good for you.

I fucking hate this state, lawyers, and the fucking mandatory time table. I'm sitting here thinking, why do I need to go to two mediations (or possibly three??) Why can't we wrap it all up in one? I haven't been to one so I don't know. I'm sure it will take a long time though. It's meeting Tuesday then two weeks from then is meeting two. Then a week (two?) is when she gives us the first draft of the document. We get an hour of 'editing'. Then maybe she finalizes it? She gives us a list of lawyers, we pick one, we submit it to them and they make it legal.

It's an ordeal...but the alternative is lawyers and potentially more time. DEFINITELY MORE MONEY.

My wife threw out the 'why can't we just do this ourselves' thing the other week.

'Because, honey, trust is kind of low right now.'