SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Why is it so hard to accept that people's likes and desires change as they get older.

Or perhaps that they may have done certain sex acts in the past but as they get older and more confident they learn how to say no.

This 100%

In past relationships I would do things I didn’t necessarily like to please my partner. I had this idea that I should sacrifice myself to show that I love them. Like we learn in fairy tails. Women are taught to do what it takes to make our partner happy.

Over time I’ve come to realize that I don’t have to subject myself to bad sex (sex acts I don’t enjoy). Now I have the confidence to tell my partner what I like and what I don’t like.

It’s not that I love my partner less, it’s that I’m loving myself too. We’re equally important.

It’s totally fair to only do the sex acts that you’re comfortable with. It has nothing to do with how much you love someone.

^^^^Exactly.

Push on my boundaries? Ask me to prove my love by going against my own boundaries?

That sounds like a you problem...not a me problem.

For sure.

I've spent a lot of time and money learning to have strong boundaries wherever they are needed to protect my dignity.

Because viewing porn is an escalating behavior, once consumers start and feel that rush, they often need more hardcore content to reach that same high they’ve reached before.

In a survey of 1,500 young adult men, 56% said their tastes in porn had become “increasingly extreme or deviant.” It can even get to the point that regular sex with a partner is not enough to arouse or satisfy extreme porn consumers. A recent study shows 88% of popular porn videos contain violence.

A consumer might start by being completely against violence toward women, or incest, or other more hardcore types of porn. However, over time consumers might slowly become more and more comfortable with what they previously found to be distasteful or too extreme, just to chase that same high.

I have no intention of using someone else's barometer of good sex, a barometer seemingly derived from male competition or porn or whatever influence is at work. And just because I was stupid earlier does not mean I will be or should be stupid now: my boundaries are my boundaries. To quote Julia Roberts in Pretty Woman, "I say who! I say when! I say who!" no matter what I said in the past, even if I was a prostitute. This is me right now.

Can a guy--my H or some future partner--walk away? He wouldn't. He could, but he wouldn't.

People get to make their own boundaries. That's why husbands can be charged with raping their wives. We're people, not property. Seems obvious but I guess not. Yes, you can divorce us. But you cannot violate us.

Eta: I have to ask, has anyone addressed this belief or feeling of entitlement or idea that the spouse is being harmed by these past acts??? I feel that we discussed issues like this in IC, and my ICs (more than one over the years) would have worked on helping me separate from these extrinsic measures of my worth to focus on my personal autonomy and strength. Has anyone addressed this in IC? How did you work through it?

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 6:08 PM, December 8th (Sunday)]

It’s totally fair to only do the sex acts that you’re comfortable with. It has nothing to do with how much you love someone.

Well, here comes the day I finally get every single person on this site to hate me. Mark it in your calendars.

That a nice thing to say. It might be true for some people. Maybe even most. It's most decidedly not true for me. The more I loved someone, the more attracted I was to them, the more "sex acts" I would do with them. Going down on a woman is "top of the list" for me, I slept with quite a few women who I would not do that for. I just wasn't attracted enough to them to make that sacrifice.

I'm going to stop there in the hopes this doesn't trigger the f**k out of people, but, this is THE issue in my eyes, because, in my experience, or for me personally, the two are directly related. The more attracted I am to you, the more selfless I will become, and the more I'll "offer" in bed. And, of course, that's projected to my W and to other people. I can only speak for myself, but, I will say, I don't think I'm alone in this. It's not uncommon to hear from men "No way I'd date her, but I'd let her blow me". I know, it's awful. But I completely understand what they are saying, a BJ isn't very "intimate" to me, it feels very good, so sure, I could see why someone would be good enough to do that with, but not good enough for sex (which carries a lot more risk and is more intimate), or sex without a condom, or anal sex or whatever the heck is your "most intimate" thing that's only offered to those you care for most. For me, that's oral sex, for other people, I'm sure it's other things.

Just a quick poll:

Do you or have you ever seen your wife as property?

Yes

No

With the story this post is about, I think RIO's POV is spot on. I think the W was able to check off almost every "box" in regards to her H, all except the "does he do it for me?" box. So she married him as that was enough for her. And it was good enough for him too until he realized that she preferred others over him sexually. It changed his reality and made him see his entire marriage differently.

Do you or have you ever seen your wife as property?

Yes

No

The fact that we even have to consider this is somewhat shocking, but, no, of course I don't, and I honestly don't know a single guy who would say "yes" to this. Now, do at least some guys, including me in my younger days, see women as "conquests", yes, I did. And I think that's relatively common, I'm pretty sure that's exactly how my W's AP saw her.

But "property"? That's so far out there, you might as well ask me if I think the moon is made of cheese (oh, I hope so!). :) No, I do not.

Quick edit. I can already feel the "women are people, not conquests" getting ready, and, while not making my viewpoint of women in my younger days any more socially acceptable or "better", it had almost nothing to do with them being women. I work every day to have "conquests" over other men too. To outsmart them, out earn them, out maneuver them. The only difference was with women I was trying to get them out of their panties, not trying to over them in the corporate ladder. And I'm well aware that they are people, their humanity isn't impacted by me trying to out smart them at all.

[This message edited by Rideitout at 7:06 PM, December 8th (Sunday)]

I work every day to have "conquests" over other men too. To outsmart them, out earn them, out maneuver them. The only difference was with women I was trying to get them out of their panties, not trying to over them in the corporate ladder.

I don't think you helped yourself here at all, RIO. Men are for outwitting in a business environment, and women are for outwitting by fucking. They aren't even a factor in your ladder climbing.

Maybe this is where people just vary?

I truly don’t do extra sex things depending on how much I like my partner. There’s a list of things I love doing, a list of things that are ok, and then a couple things that I hate.

I used to do some things I really don’t like because I wanted to make my partner happy. The thing is, turning sex into a negative for me didn’t help the relationships. Going forward I just decided not to do sex things that I don’t like.

That doesn’t mean a boring vanilla dead bedroom, just a couple of things are off limits. I don’t see it as not getting my best. Honestly my sex life was better after setting boundaries.

Not everyone measures love using sex acts. Surely some do, but it’s really not a universal thing.

Considering RIO has shared many times that he works in a male dominated environment, his view is understandable.

As far as I’ve been able to gather, RIO is also heterosexual. So once again, another understandable view. Let’s not forget, every “conquest” he sought out, had agency and could have always said no. So there is that.

(RIO, sometimes less is more. )

Here's the thing. I get to decide what I will, and will not accept from my husband. I get to decide whether finding out he licked every woman in the world, except for me, is a deal-breaker for me.

I don't give a shit if you think it's judgmental. I don't give a shit if you think it's slut shaming him. I don't give a shit what you think at all. Because you are not in my marriage.

You can judge me, for judging him, all you want. I get to decide what I want in my life, and what I will, and will not, accept from the person I am married to.

You are totally missing the point, that while I might have thought I was marrying vanilla, if I found out he was anything but vanilla, after we got married, with every other woman he had been with, that would affect me. If it wouldn't affect you, then great. You go on and have a great little life. How it would affect me, is my business. And I'm allowed to have those feelings.

I guess that makes me a misogynist? LOL. Got it.

Guess what? I don't care. What it does make me is human. I don't care about all the little buzzwords going on on this thread. Any spouse, has the right to know their spouses sexual history. They also have the right to decide not to marry them, if they don't like that sexual history. They also get to dedide to divorce them. Because guess what, they are allowed to make decisions based on their well-being, for themselves, without worrying about how it might look to you. You don't get a vote in my marriage.

Let's look at the reason all of us are here. We all thought we were marrying a faithful spouse. Turns out we were wrong, right? So do we have the right to feel we were duped, and decided we want to divorce them, because they were not who we thought they were? Why does that change when it's something sexual? Why does it change, when we find out that our spouse has an extensive sexual history, that they lied to us about before they married us? How is that any different? Deception is deception. We have the right to say nope not for me, I'm out.

Don't like it? Again, you don't get a vote in my life.

I'm a bit late, but well said Hellfire. I'm with you on this one

RIO, sometimes less is more.

LOL, I'm not known for my skills in filtering my thoughts through a PC lens. I call'em like I see'em or lived them.

Add me to slowlygoingcrazy as one who never really changed my repertoire much depending on how much I liked or was attracted to someone. If *I* liked something, I wanted to do it. Sure, there were some partners with whom I liked things more or less, but I never usually filtered things based on how I ranked my feelings for the guy—just the pleasure I got from (whatever sex act in question).

[This message edited by Darkness Falls at 8:23 PM, December 8th (Sunday)]

I think that's what the guys here are saying they'd appreciate.

To me, the short answer is no you don't owe it to him. Although, you might be selling him and yourself short though if he was the kind of partner in the first sentence I quoted.

Yeah, that's what I thought.

In that case, I would try to choose someone with ManishsDad's mindset. Someone who would be aware of the trauma I've been through and have concern and compassion for my well-being. I would feel it's worth learning and trying, for someone like that. Why? Because a person who has concern for my well-being would understand if I need to stop or go slowly and wouldn't pressure me to continue if I were struggling, and that ironically would make me want to try all the harder for them, to bring them pleasure. That would show me they're safe for me to fully be with.

[This message edited by silverhopes at 8:40 PM, December 8th (Sunday)]

Considering RIO has shared many times that he works in a male dominated environment, his view is understandable.

That excuse would undermine his assertions earlier in this thread that the playing field of his industry is tilted unfairly in women's favor, making them even more valid targets for competition. Not to mention the crafty women who are supposedly getting ahead by filing unwarranted harassment claims. You'd think those would be prime adversaries.

Would I owe it to him to do it anyway?

I am genuinely curious about this. If I am ever in a relationship again (probably not, but in case I am), would I be selling him short if I wanted to never do deep-throating again?

No and no. You don’t owe anybody DT. Some men seem to think it’s so easy based on stupid unrealistic porn they’ve watched. What they fail to realize is that the gag reflex is stronger with some than others (and can even vary throughout the day), and that it can take a lot of practice. Like, a lot to retrain your gag reflex. This is one area where I think porn is damaging and sets unrealistic expectations.

You also don’t owe them an explanation as to why it’s a no for you.

What happened to you is disgusting. Any man who forces my mouth to stay on his dick will be in for a rude awakening, including my husband (unless we’ve established that it’s ok, of course).

That's why I said male dominated, not women-free.

I'm really not trying to get into a right fight here, BSR, I was just giving some reference to his comparison.

Thank you sisoon, seekers, BraveSirRobin, and landclark for also acknowledging that trauma.

Silver...

Any guy worth his weight in dirt wouldn't push the deep throat issue with you if he knew your story.

And for me, that's something I'd never expect anyway unless it was offered. I'd never even ask if it was done before.

Since we're being frank here...

Deepthroating never really did anything for me. I mean, yeah, it's nice on occasion, like, "Yo, hey you got it all! Awesome!" but frankly... the lips and tongue can do a lot more than the esophagus. Apparently the ex's first Ap really loved it so she did it to me the few times she would give me oral between the end of her A (2009) and DDay 1 (2014).

No body worth their weight in shit would do that to a woman, pinning her down and forcing it. If you force ANYTHING in sex against someone's will, that's rape. Full stop. That never should have happened to you.

silverhopes...

What you described is nothing short of horrific, and I can't imagine any loving partner forcing something like that. Simply awful.

Speaking only for myself of course, but I suspect most other men on this thread would agree that that is the exact type of thing that we would be more than understanding if it was off the table in the future. A sexual act with associated trauma...yeah, I don't want any part of reinforcing that trauma.

I think for me, the most difficult part of all of this to wrap my head around when it comes to exes, is that a lot of times it seems as if the bigger the douche, the bigger the asshole, the more the abuse, the greater the lengths and effort gone to keep him and the relationship. And not just sexually, but all the way around.