SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

All I can say is, after 48 pages of this, I still shake my head and wonder why society insists on bundling sexual fidelity along with romantic relationships.

For me personally, I don't like other people screwing my spouse. That seems to be an overwhelming majority position among married people as far as I can tell. From a man's perspective, fidelity (or monogamy if you prefer) helps you to know that you are raising your own biological children, and that you aren't unwittingly being exposed to another man's seminal fluids. Which most men would find to be really gross and off-putting, male AP's of married women excepted.

You really find that to be a head-shaker? I think most people believe that society got that one right.

The mental gymnastics continue.

A dash of pseudoscience here

Sprinkle in hypocrisy there

Fold in a handful shaming

Gently mix in with self-delusion for perception of the 4th dimension.

Bake @ 160C for 120 minutes.

Consume in large quantities for an extended period of time.

This is the only way to argue or believe that sexual history is irrelevant to any relationship equation. ERGO (I like the word) history should be disclosed PERIOD.

Misandrist, misogynist, SJW, polywhatever, conservative, liberal, etc et al, no worries, this should work for everyone.

So much discussion trying to get away from a simple uncomfortable truth. Everything you do and have done makes you who you are...PERIOD.

My first wife was fairly promiscuous before we met and I learned a lot listening to her. Good stuff. My second wife really doesn't like discussing it. Hey, different stokes, ya know. In other words, there is no right or wrong answer to this question.

I agree that if everyone is on board with a poly lifestyle fine. No harm no foul.

MY issue with it (other than the fact that is just NOT for me personally) is that my shitbag x suddenly decided he was poly cus his 18 yo slut AP told him he was and he made my life a fucking hell for months because I was being "unreasonable" telling him that was some bullshit after 5+ years of marriage and that I wasn't interested in doing that.

I know not ALL poly relationships are this (if they come from a place of openness and honesty), but I think a lot of people hide wayward, hurtful, and shitty behaviors behind a poly 'label' to justify them and that is NOT ok.

MY issue with it (other than the fact that is just NOT for me personally) is that my shitbag x suddenly decided he was poly cus his 18 yo slut AP told him he was and he made my life a fucking hell for months because I was being "unreasonable" telling him that was some bullshit after 5+ years of marriage and that I wasn't interested in doing that.

I know not ALL poly relationships are this (if they come from a place of openness and honesty), but I think a lot of people hide wayward, hurtful, and shitty behaviors behind a poly 'label' to justify them and that is NOT ok.

Yeah, Ellie, that's not polyamory. The literal definition is multiple ETHICAL romantic relationships. Cheating is never, ever polyamory.

People do stuff like that and it gives ethical nonmonogamy a bad rap.

There is nothing wrong with monogamy if everyone is happy with it. I think a lot of the problems come though when people don't actually realize there are ethical solutions instead of cheating. My xH certainly didn't even consider it.

Which most men would find to be really gross and off-putting, male AP's of married women excepted.

That's actually a fetish for a lot of men. I think you'd be surprised.

I think a lot of the problems come though when people don't actually realize there are ethical solutions instead of cheating.

And cheaters everywhere are now claiming to want a poly relationship to get away with cheating....

Call me old fashioned, but I only want my husband screwing me. If he wants multiple women, he can feel free to do that after we are divorced.

I feel like more than once on these threads, PSTI, you’ve tried to make people feel guilty for not wanting your lifestyle, acting like it would just solve all our problems if we could somehow just sign off on a poly lifestyle. I’m guessing you’re in the minority with that thought process.

That's actually a fetish for a lot of men. I think you'd be surprised.

I highly doubt this is the majority of men.

[This message edited by landclark at 9:18 PM, December 10th (Tuesday)]

And cheaters everywhere are now claiming to want a poly relationship to get away with cheating....

Ding ding ding! That is EXACTLY the stupid shit my xwh tried to pull and made me feel stupid for months because I wouldn't agree to let him move his 18 yo skank into my house and sleep with her for his amusement.

Sorry PTSI, we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one and I mean no disrespect to you personally. After the shit I've been through with this, poly to me is just cheating by a more 'acceptable' name. I have read enough and do know enough about it to know that there are people who can happily live that lifestyle, and like I said, so long as everyone is happy with it fine. But it is MHO that true poly folks are pretty rare, and true poly couples rarer still. I think a LOT of 'poly' folks just want to justify cheating. And I think a LOT of BS's 'agree' to a poly life that they don't want to keep their WS happy.

I hate the word 'triggered' but the word poly makes my BP go up and always will.

[This message edited by BraveSirRobin at 10:11 PM, December 10th (Tuesday)]

My xH certainly didn't even consider it.

I think people cheat for different reasons but it always involves unethical people. Ethical people do not cheat. People who want to have sex with people who are not their spouses and who are ethical, they talk with their partners. And then they break up or change their relationship.

I think a lot of cheaters get off on the sneaking around and so opening up the relationship won't change a thing

and that you aren't unwittingly being exposed to another man's seminal fluids

Except that in hunter gatherer societies, which was how humans existed for most of human history, women have sex with a lot of men so that each man is the possible father of her child and therefore provides for that child.

The fact is, in our society and in the vast majority of societies around the world, for the past 2, 3 thousand years, we value monogamy and when one partner violates that, we get jealous. But I sincerely doubt there is any biological reason (btw, I am not denigrating or diminishing jealousy, it is a fact of life and I still am pissed at my ex for all his whoring around, but I don't think there is a biological basis for it)

A dash of pseudoscience here

Pseudoscience?

This is the only way to argue or believe that sexual history is irrelevant to any relationship equation. ERGO (I like the word) history should be disclosed PERIOD.

Misandrist, misogynist, SJW,

I don't follow this logic at all. A person's relationship history, or lack thereof, is important. Why their last relationship ended, how long it lasted, how long they've been single, if they've cheated, been cheated on. How they talk about their exes.

But I don't know why their sexual history matters.

So much discussion trying to get away from a simple uncomfortable truth. Everything you do and have done makes you who you are...PERIOD

What uncomfortable truth? That is your uncomfortable opinion. My, perhaps uncomfortable, opinion is that our experiences combined with our interpretation of those experiences is what makes is who we are, how we process and cope is truly what matters.

Also. This doesn't give us a right to know anything about another human being. It means that for a relationship to be healthy, we really need to know those things about them

But even then, and it is clear plenty on this thread disagree, I fail to see how it matters how many or few people anyone has slept with.

This thread has taught me that I should pay attention to whether a partner cares about my sexual past. Then I can run. And truly this: if I had run when my ex was so fucking happy with how few people I'd slept with, and I had this sinking feeling in my stomach, if I had listened to.that feeling, I would've saved so much grief.

I feel like more than once on these threads, PSTI, you’ve tried to make people feel guilty for not wanting your lifestyle, acting like it would just solve all our problems if we could somehow just sign off on a poly lifestyle

I really don't think she is trying to make people feel guilty. I do think she is maybe not focusing on how much of cheating is deception, not just sex with other people. I think she is saying that monogamy works for some and not others and they more people should try non monogamy as that could solve some problems

I agree that monogamy is for some and not others, but I also think that cheating is about getting off on sneaking around, or it's about an inability to talk about feelings, not about a desire for more partners. Ethical people who want sex with more people talk to their partners and then divorce or switch to swinging, an open relationship, or polyamoru

Almost at the end of this thread!

I feel like that guy from the first Star Wars* movie flying down the channel to destroy the Death Star.

“Almost theeeeere...almost theeeeeere...”

*I shouldn’t have to say this, but I meant A New Hope, which will forever be the first Star Wars movie. Anyone who says The Phantom Menace is the first is a dirty, rotten liar and I’ll see you at the bike rack at 3:00.

My goodness. Been off from SI for a while and I come back and see this...

My partner had every single right to ask me about my sexual past. And If I didn't fit the values he envisioned in a potential mate because I was sleeping around, that is perfectly FINE. That is HiS standard, HIS boundary. He has every right to seek a partner that shares his values. I also have every right to do the same.

Should a SO know their partner's sexual history? If they want to. They have the right to know anything about you that does no fit their values. If they don't care, that's also fine.

I find it alarming that there is so much contention from some people here about being upfront with someone about what type of person they're getting with. Yes, people can change, but whether that matters should be for the people changing and a partner that SHARES that view.

You cannot force someone to accept something they find unacceptable and it's worrisome that some people are trying to push this narrative that having standards is a bad thing. It's not. Don't like a girl sleeping around or having gangbangs, no one should blame you for deciding you'd like to find a virgin. Don't like a guy who sleeps around, no one should blame your for your preferences and for looking for someone less experienced.

And yes, you are judging someone for what they did in the past. There's NOTHING wrong in doing so. In a lot of case, it helps you avoid danger.

If my partner was a womanizer who slept around with every bimbo that spread her legs, I would NOT have married him. Yes, I would judge him as a dangerous potential partner. What's wrong with that? It might be true or it might not be. I live with the decision.

The whole notion of sexual history being irrelevant boggles my mind. It's part of a person. It could show someone's behavior that the other person would never put up with. Isn't that better in finding a more compatible partner?

[This message edited by MrsSouthAfrica at 2:39 PM, December 11th (Wednesday)]

I think people cheat for different reasons but it always involves unethical people. Ethical people do not cheat. People who want to have sex with people who are not their spouses and who are ethical, they talk with their partners. And then they break up or change their relationship.

Oh my, an ETHICAL/MORAL discussion

1. Is it ETHICAL/MORAL to break an agreement? A marriage is based upon a defined length of time, the time being “lifetime” (to death do you part).

2. Is it ETHICAL/MORAL to speak to your partner (IE issue an ULTIMATUM, which is exactly what they are doing in this discussion, (Accept new terms or they divorce or cheat. I'm sure the sugar coating and gymnastics are impressive in the mind during such a discussion)?

3. Is it ETHICAL/MORAL to commit FRAUD, the person is presenting themselves as something they clearly are not with the intent to defraud.

I don't follow this logic at all. A person's relationship history, or lack thereof, is important. Why their last relationship ended, how long it lasted, how long they've been single, if they've cheated, been cheated on. How they talk about their exes.

But I don't know why their sexual history matters.

SO, it is your premise everything else matters BUT sexual history. I have to ask, are you actually serious? I honestly shall not call you a mental gymnast any longer, your skills have ascended to contortionist-level.

1. Is it ETHICAL/MORAL to break an agreement? A marriage is based upon a defined length of time, the time being “lifetime” (to death do you

Who is breaking an agreement? If one person decided he or she wants sex with someone other than that spouse, they bring it up with their spouse. The spouse can say, no thanks, and so they either get divorced or the couple stays monogamous. Or maybe the other partner thinks they want to give it a try. I don't see what the problem is.

Not everyone defines marriage as being for the rest of their lives. And for those that do, sometimes that works out. But people divorce as well. So what is your point?

Is it ethical to break an agreement? If both parties agree to it, yes.

SO, it is your premise everything else matters BUT sexual history. I have to ask, are you actually serious? I honestly shall not call you a mental gymnast any longer, your skills have ascended to contortionist-level.

First, we are never got my to.agree. For those of us who think that sexual history doesn't matter, we won't understand the logic of those who say it does. And vice versa. That is the incompatibility.

Second, I did not say everything is up for grabs but sexual history. How we treat others matters. Ability to commit, to communicate matter. Honesty. Knowing your partner's sexual history does not answer that.

That is my opinion, at least, and I think we do not think about things in the same way. And probably people who think sexual history matter are not compatible with people who do not.

Not everyone defines marriage as being for the rest of their lives.

Ability to commit, to communicate matter.

To commit to what? If you define marriage as "I promise not to fuck anyone else until I decide that I want to, and then if you disagree, I'm out with no hard feelings," then what have you really committed to?

commit to what? If you define marriage as "I promise not to fuck anyone else until I decide that I want to, and then if you disagree, I'm out with no hard feelings," then what have you really committed to?

No one is saying that. First of all, how many marriages start with a promise to forsake all others, and then one or both cheats? Second of all, the point is both people commit to making the relationship work, making their partner happy. The commitment is to creat a life in which both are happy and fulfilled, to support each other and take care of each other. What if after 30 years of marriage one person wants to have sex with others? They can cheat. They can talk to their spouse and divorce. They can talk to their spouse and decide to remain monogamous. They talk to their spouse and open up the relationship.

I will say that the only successful open relationships I know is where they agreed to be open from the beginning.

TLDR. (all responses)

Just sharing my personal story. I was a lot more sexually active and had many more partners than MisterSister. Many.

I asked early on here at SI if men considered women a "slut" if they reached a certain number of partners. Many men had a number in mind of what they considered a slut. It was usually when the women crossed over into the double digits. Well, guess I am a slut, then. I want to add that there were many men that were supportive of me and didn't feel a number made a woman a slut. I want to point out then that there was a lot few male members back in the day than women. A lot fewer.

Anyways, I feel I made a huge mistake in sharing my sexual history with MisterSister. Before we got married and were getting serious I shared without him asking. I wanted to be upfront and let him know what he was getting. Especially since it was possible that we would run into or socialize with some of my former sexual partners.

He had a lot less partners. Count on one hand. A a lot less activity. But, I want to point out that MisterSister is the best sexual partner I have had. He is amazing. Not the best kisser, though, that would be Frankie from New Jersey.

After his LTA and trying to reconcile, MisterSister told me he had mind movies of me with other men. I feel he resented my experience and numbers. He felt entitled to have a LTA and part of his entitlement came from the fact that I had such an active, varied and prolific sex life before I even knew him. He felt he missed out and that he deserved to have what I had. He made me feel like I was slut and that was partially why he had an affair, leading to my question here at SI.

I had reservations about getting married because I really enjoyed my single sex life. I thought hard about what I was giving up to be in a long term committed marriage and decided I loved MisterSister enough that I wanted to give that up and settle down and just enjoy each other for the rest of our lives. I felt it was a great trade off. I was happy. As the years wore on, MisterSister apparently became less and less happy and more and more selfish and entitled. I became less happy because he was not treating me well at all. I had a plan and I was getting my ducks in a row. Part of this time he was already engaged in his LTA, unbeknownst to me, of course.

If I had it to do over, I wouldn't have shared my history. Especially since he didn't ask. If your partner asked, I would be cautious about answering and explore why they feel they need to know. I don't feel you should lie, though, if asked point blank, but it would also be a red flag to me if they were insistent upon knowing your history.

I can understand your reasoning, SMS. However, I think that in other situations the non-openness can be a red flag. It may matter less to the person about your number or sexual history and more to them that you aren't willing to be open about what your life was like before them. I know that is what the case would have been with my H. He also had far fewer partners than me, and it didn't matter at all to him. Had I been less than forthcoming, that would have been a turn off because he would have felt like I was hiding something from him.

I just don't think there is a one size fits all answer. The problem with Mister Milkshake is he wasn't open and honest about how he felt about it going in. There was no red flag that was known to you. If it is a measure of compatibility, which it is for a lot of people for some reason, then he failed to either be self aware that it was a compatibility issue to him, or bring it into discussion so he could resolve it.

That being said, it's okay not to disclose if they aren't asking, so long as you are not leaving out information that is pertinent to them. And, as we have all seemed to agree on this thread, it's also not okay to lie about it.

asked early on here at SI if men considered women a "slut" if they reached a certain number of partners. Many men had a number in mind of what they considered a slut. It was usually when the women crossed over into the double digits.

Shit, really? So 10 is a slut? Ha. Goodness.