SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hi Blackheart! Good to see you here in Betrayed Womenz. I'm new too. This is an amazing group of badass beautiful women and there are days just reading here keeps me going.

Ellie, happy one month of freedom!

If they can't handle my ME-ness then they can go find someone willing to put up with their shit. I did tone myself down for a LOT of the time I was with the x, and I can say I will never do that again for anyone.

This really struck home. I'm not a proponent of the "if they can't handle me at my worst, they don't deserve my best" because you shouldn't take your worst out on someone you love and just say "oh well, that's me!" HOWEVER I toned it down so much, I wasn't even myself, and was questioning my reality and identity. Ironically, I became a resentful - if silent - bitch. Walking on eggshells just gets old and it doesn't help them hear you at all, if they didn't want to hear you in the first place.

Chaos, does KTHITD extend to made-up greeting card holidays? Ah fuck it, who cares. KTHITD!!!

[This message edited by CallingSpades at 9:20 PM, January 13th, 2020 (Monday)]

Been feeling kind of down lately since I'm the one that had to quit her job because of the affair, start over with my husband, and trying to find a new job that I actually love like I did at Dollar Tree. I have also thought about going back to school but IDK yet. I'm 30 with a Bachelor's Degree in Biological Science and I can't get a job with my degree. Starting to feel lost and confused.

CallingSpades - KTHITD is any holiday you want it to be. In my case particularly those made up ones. I HATE and I do mean HATE that one coming up next month. I'm surprised I haven't been banned from stores from the venomous FUCK YOUs I've said to some displays recently. Please note - I always look for the little ones before I utter things outloud or give hand gestures. Although - I've been known to circle back around and give a good one once the wee ones have moved along

Blackheart11419 - what can we do to help you lift back up?

Blackheart, what did you love about your job, and what does that say about who you are?

I think all of us feel lost sometimes. But your job and your marriage don't hold your value. You're still the same great honest and faithful person, whatever you choose to do.

Blackheart, I have a B.S. in biology, too! I worked at the US Patent & Trademark for a few years. It's federal, office is in Alexandria, VA. Great area, except that cost of living is high! Great pay. The USPTO has its own special payscale, higher than the regular GS scale. When I quit in 2003 after working there for 5 years, I was making $74,000 a year with no prior work experience. They'll even pay for you to go to law school if you want. And, once you get to a certain level, you can work from home. Have you tried a recruiter? They might be able to find you something that involves biology/science but is outside the box.

GMC, you've given me so much to think about. Absolutely, at what point does the emotionally stunted partner have to step up? That's exactly what I asked my IC. (She's not our MC, although she has offered. She's not met my fch yet.) She said she understood my point and we can work on that.

Her suggestions about softening my communication are based on my feelings of frustration about our communication. These are things I can do to get what I want from my fch. If I want him to respond in a rational, reasonable way in his current state, this is what I need to accomplish that. So, it's not about helping him feel better. It's about me getting what i want.

I thought I had toned myself down with my fch. It didn't help things. I think it just helped him rugsweep more. After Dday, I went back to my more forceful self, probably even further. I didn't hold anything back anymore. That's not really helpful, either. My 16yo! (His birthday was yesterday.) asked me the other day if I realized how toxic the things I said to and about my fch are. ☹ That tells me that I need to change.

While I get the whole, "if you can't handle me at my worst...", that doesn't include abuse.

Ellie, you're awesome!

WOMENZ - It's been ages since I signed in and I am caught up on PMs and just responded to a post I'd posted in early December. So I haven't yet gone back and read what I missed.

Happy NEW YEAR!

Travel is done. Kids are back in school. House is semi-clean. And I need to take my life back. I saw a speaker the other day who gave her testimony on her husband's infidelity. My biggest takeaway was when she said she could not let this define her. I've said that before, but I really have to mean it.

I was talking to my sister yesterday. It's been 10 years since her Dday. She told me she was happier wit HERSELF than she's been in her whole life. Her marriage is not perfect but she is HAPPY. And I found that incredible comforting.

Anyways, hope it's a great FUCKING Tuesday for all of you. I'll be back later after I've read back a bit.

My 16yo! (His birthday was yesterday.) asked me the other day if I realized how toxic the things I said to and about my fch are. ☹ That tells me that I need to change.

While I get the whole, "if you can't handle me at my worst...", that doesn't include abuse.

This is very true. And if your son noticed that, then yes - that is probably something that you need to work on. Toxicity is not good for anyone.

However - my issue with this concept comes when the waywardasshatdickhole claims 'abuse' when you are in fact just being truthful (and not in a nasty confrontational way). My xdouchehole said that about me too. I bent myself up a little bit trying to 'soften' my message. But guess what? He got to say whatever TF he wanted and never had to give a damn about how it might impact ME. And 80% of the shit he said was bullshit. I am not trying to say his feelings were not valid, but...

ok example time - after dday, I heard an earful from him about how I "never did anything he wanted" and I "never was willing to try anything new". OK 1 - he never fucking said what he wanted EVER. And 2 - when I asked what he meant by "trying new" he made a big point of saying that we always went to the same restaurants. When I pointed out to him (who had no job and sat on his useless ass all day every day) that he could certainly do some research and make a plan or rsvp to something... well the idiot rsvp'd in 35 seconds to a restaurant that we had been talking about trying. Problem? He made the reservation for 5:30 pm on a Sunday and this restaurant was a 45 minute drive. Now, I get up at 4:fucking30 in the morning to go to work (which he knows cus at this point we had been together over 8 years) and I don't feel like staying out until god knows when on a 'school' night. When I *softly* pointed that out to him, he threw an almighy shitfit about how ungrateful I was, and how he never did anything right enough and that he was tired of my 'abuse'..... FMR - I'm sorry that your wife who keeps a fucking roof over your stupid head and food in your belly and your bills paid is asking you to have the slightest bit of goddam consideration..... Thinking back on it, I can honestly say I am amazed at self for not smothering him in his sleep. (Also, I have to point out that for him, me "not trying anything new" meant that I wouldn't agree to a threesome with his 18 yo slut AP... Yeah - GO ME that I made it through this shitshow without stabbing anyone even a tiny bit.)

So, yes I completely agree that toxic and abuse are not ok no matter what, I also think that people like all our WH/FWH/WBF etc are very quick to feel abused when it is not, in fact, ABUSE. You know cus they are entitled 'poor-mes'.

All of that to say - yes I think sometimes it behooves us to word things more carefully or to soften the message, but when it comes to honest communications? I'mm'a say my truth in my characteristic shoot-from-the-hip style. You don't like? Bye Felicia.

Rant ovah!

TX - welcome back!

Ellie - I'm reading this and thinking "how is he not carrying what's left of his balls in a wheelbarrow from being swollen from all those KITDs that he deserved while you were wearing steel toe shoes"

"how is he not carrying what's left of his balls in a wheelbarrow from being swollen from all those KITDs that he deserved while you were wearing steel toe shoes"

Riiiiiiiight?? Lawdy when I think back on all the stupid shit that came outta that man in those last 9 months.... WTF was I thinking?!?

Chaos- I want my life before the affair because we were only married for 6 months before he had the affair and my 1st year feels like a joke and now with my 2nd coming up (March 10) it doesn't feel like a marriage anymore.

CallingSpades- I loved about my job was that I was in Customer Service. Yeah I worked at Dollar Tree but it was the customers that I really enjoyed and 2 of my managers.

cocoplus5nuts- I have never even heard of that place and Idk know if we have one around Macomb, Illinois (HOME OF WESTERN ILLINOIS UNIVERSITY).

Today I thought I had an interview today but it was a series of testing to see if I could get an interview and honestly that made my self confidence go even lower then normal. I failed the test because I didn't get a 70% or higher. What bullshit is that? Tomorrow I have another interview (I HOPE IT IS) and it is in Health Care but my minor in Psychology is the reason I have an interview but IDK if it something I want or am I just looking for a job to help with a second income. My H makes over $31,000.00 a year and I haven't worked a whole year so IDK what I make. I work for like 6-8 months or less. Its just some bullshit that I am always looking for a different job all the time.

fuckity fuck.

So, WH had his 2nd CSAT appt today. Says it went well.

And then I got triggered/blunt.

Pretty well blew the whole conversation.

My WH refers to his lying, cheating, deception, etc (ie anything A related) all the fucking time as "my actions". I have called him out on it (verbally and in writing) all the damn time since dday. Sometimes nicely. Sometimes not. It doesn't seem to make a damn bit of difference. Tonight, he's talking about FOO/childhood and his mom hiding stuff (seriously important stuff) and processing with the CSAT that this was a factor (or played a part) in his thinking it was Ok or acceptable to "keep things" from others. He then says that it was not a justification for "his actions". And I lost it. I did not yell. I did speak in an aggressive tone, and said 'you mean lying'. I immediately apologized. Said I was sorry, that using the term "my actions" is triggering and I find it to be minimizing and avoiding.

We have another 30-60 seconds of tense talk (on the phone bc I'm out of town), including me saying that not only is it triggering, minimizing, and avoiding, but it's not even clear... how am I supposed to know what he means by 'my actions'? WHICH actions is he talking about?

He says he wishes I would have just asked what he meant by "my actions" and I replied I have brought this up at least 100 times since dday. Now, I did manage to stop myself from continuing with the 'and it doesn't seem to matter' or "and I still don't feel heard" or "and you still don't fucking understand how goddamn fucked up it is that book after book after book that he's read on infidelity (including the one he just read in the past 3 weeks) stresses the importance of SPECIFIC apologies for SPECIFIC actions, and yet here we are, on the 2 fucking year anniversary of my world blowing up, and you STILL can't seem to find a way to use the specific words, whether you are apologizing or just talking about the A."

Can I tell myself that it's progress to stop at level 6 on the mean scale, when what i was really feeling was more along a level 10?

Then he says he thinks he somehow felt it was ok to "not tell the truth" to protect someone.

And I lost it. Again.

Said "there is a word for that. It's called LYING." (and I again managed to stop myself from saying and it's not JUST 'protect someone', it's to avoid the consequences of your own fucked up and selfish choices... so, scored another 6 [bad], but didn't score a 10... progress?)

He said he had to go and we hung up.

I feel shitty about my behavior. AND pissed that today is 2yrs from dday (yesterday is 2yrs POSOW telling me they slept together the first 5 yrs of our relationship & he spent the next 20 years chasing her... today is 2yrs from confronting him and learning it was a 10yr PA that had ended only 3 months earlier) and he STILL cannot seem to grasp how much his language is so fucking shitty. He is a very well educated man who basically writes for a living - like language is his THING that pays our bills. He is a notoriously picky editor of others' writing, and is NOT in any way, shape, or form linguistically challenged. At least not when his words are about someone else's sins.

I honestly can't tell the difference anymore between standing up for myself and what I deserve (eg honesty, ownership, clear communication) and just being mean. I say I want him to open up - and he does. And then I lose it over a fucking word.

Yet in my mind, the phrase just comes over & over & over: "words matter". And they do. They matter to me ALOT. But I know that's a defense mechanism to try and make myself feel less shitty for my own actions. So, I'm defensive with myself for blowing up bc I feel that HIS language is defensive. Man, that is fucked up.

Feels like maybe I need a visit with Coco+5's IC.

Looks like another sleepless night. sigh.

[This message edited by gmc94 at 7:53 AM, January 15th, 2020 (Wednesday)]

Blackheart, there is only one USPTO and it's on Alexandria, VA. You could always move there. I assume you probably don't want to do that. I was using it as an example of thinking outside the box with your degree. From the name, it wouldn't occur to me that they would hire scientists and other techies, but they are in high demand because most patents are for technical and scientific inventions. I worked in bioaffecting chemical compositions.

Ellie, my fch has never claimed that I abuse him. I have since dday. I attacked him physically once while he was sleeping. Just started hitting him. He woke up and laid there and just took it. I didn't hurt him. He's very solid. The physical only happened once, but the screaming and cussing and name calling had gone on for years. I can be vicious when I'm angry.

I don't scream or namecall anymore. I do mumble under my breath, calling him stupid and an idiot a lot. I guess my boys sometimes hear that. And, I criticize my fch a lot. It's so hard for me because a lot of what he does doesn't make sense to me. It seems so stupid. Knowing how stupid he was in cheating makes it easy for me to think of him as stupid and view him with contempt. Even the most mundane things he says get my eyes rolling. This morning, as I'm in front of the stove with eggs, bacon, and grits, he asks,"What are you making?" Really? Isn't it obvious? I don't understand the point in that question.

My therapist has told me to drop the word, "stupid," from my vocabulary. She says I can still be direct, just soften what I say a little with a lead in and a softer facial expression. Just yesterday, I said something my fch did was stupid. He has a Master's degree. He can't be all that stupid, right?

GMC, OMG! My fch's mom was the same way, and my fch picked up that it was normal and ok. He does the cliche, "I've had this forever," when I ask about something he bought that he hid somewhere for a few months. Monday night, it was a pair of jeans. I like, "You know it's ok for you to buy yourself something you need, right?"

And, the minimizing language! My fch used to say, "the affair." First, to me it wasn't an affair. An affair is something nice and pleasant and wholesome like a tea party. He cheated. Second, he has removed himself from the equation with that statement. It was the affair, not his affair. I told him to stop that. Call it what it was and own it.

He's also prickly about being called out on lying. He can't stand it when I call him a liar. He has tried to deny it in the past. Um, you lied about cheating, right? You were dishonest about so many things. That's pretty much the definition of a liar. He says he doesn't see the things he does as lying or dishonest. I have to explain to him that he didn't tell the truth, whether by omission or minimizing or flat out denying/lying. Sometimes, he tries to pull the old, "I was answering a different question." Bullshit! That's just another way of being dishonest, deflecting so he doesn't have to admit to something.

ETA:

Geez! He's so fucked up. I don't want to deal with this stupid shit! There's that word again. For the life of me, I can't figure how I became the healthy one in my M, as fucked up as I am.

The thread on cheating and mental illness triggered me. I feel like everyone is misunderstanding depression. I can't stand that people are trying to use depression as a reason or factor in their CPs cheating. I had a panic attack after posting on there yesterday. I want to go back and read responses, but I'm too scared.

Everyone who cheats has serious issues. Everyone who cheats is in some sort of crisis. I don't give a fuck! Unless someone is in a complete psychotic break where they don't know reality, don't know they're married, mental illness is not a reason. I've been depressed almost my entire fucking life! I have never cheated on anyone. It's not fucking depression or ADHD or anxiety. It's weakness, fear, selfishness, self-centeredness, entitlement, lack of empathy and conscience. Those are character flaws, not mental illness.

[This message edited by cocoplus5nuts at 9:04 AM, January 15th (Wednesday)]

Feels like maybe I need a visit with Coco+5's IC.

I missed this. I saw her Monday. Told her I'd been sad for 4 or 5 days for no apparent reason. We did some EMDR. She did some weird testing thing with my arm. Then, she ran her hand over my head and down my back a few times. The last time, she flicked her hand and fingers away like she was throwing something away. I felt amazingly better yesterday. The sadness seems to have lifted.

She referred me to someone for "causal field balancing." I think it's like biofield tuning, if you want to search it. Basically, the woman uses crystals to balance my aura.

I need to be cleaning my house. I have friends coming to stay for the weekend. All I want to do is sit on the couch and knit.

Fch is away for a couple of days. I haven't heard from him since he left and I don't care. Oh, sorry, that's not true. He called me yesterday afternoon after our 12yo called him because I wasn't answering the phone. Sorry I was busy scrubbing the toilet. But, he hasn't responded to any of my texts.

Coco - knit away. Your friends will understand. And you did get that toilet scrubbed so cut yourself a break.

Kitting [I use crochet] is therapeutic. I can do something quasi mindlessly and end up being able to visualize accomplishment. Bonus - I can imagine that needle sticking in and twisting [pause for my evil finger wiggling and maniacal laughter]

I feel like I'm done with my fch. I checked to see where he was around noon. He was on his way home. I called him to ask why he had ignored me the entire time he was gone. He said he didn't have phone service. Ever? Everywhere he went the entire time he was gone? Not even when he got in his truck to drive home? There wasn't anywhere he could've sent me a quick text to tell me he was on his way? He enough service for me to be able to locate him.

He says, "Oh, well, yeah, I guess. You're right." I know I'm fucking right!

I'm just done. I understand when he's at work during the day. He's in meetings and sometimes in secure buildings where he can't take his phone. I can even understand being so tired that he crashes at night. He's that tired when he's home. I don't understand why he doesn't think of me enough to call or text just to tell me he's leaving.

Then, he says he has something for me. Oh, nice. Maybe he got me a gift. Want to know what it was? News that he has been offered a command in California. I said, "No." And, how is that for me? Asshole! Wait! What's the word? Fuckwart?!

Oh coco... I'm sorry you are dealing with this.

fuckwarts suck.

It's funny to read this on the heels of receipt of the workbook my WH's CSAT recommended (help her heal by Carol Sheets). It's written in a VERY basic way and has worksheets and such. Looks helpful, but we shall see.

What struck me about your post is that I just read some parts about how to rebuild trust, create transparency, etc. that included all the checking in suggestions. So to finish that, turn to SI, and read about a failure to check in kind of hit me.

One of the things I like about it is it will list a few examples for something, and then have space for the WH to create his OWN ways to help (eg it has a few "empathy statements" for a specific fact scenario, then says "think of three more empathy statements" for the situation). So it seems to be a combination of the check off the box type things (like how to help your spouse heal) AND exercises for a WH to start figuring shit out themselves.

Anyhow, geez louise, thinking that moving across the country with the kids, just as your yoga gig is starting to bear fruit, and that being something "for" you (or your kids) reeks of some big time entitlement IMO. And moving to LA? I apologize in advance to our sister BWs from/in LA - I lived there for several years decades ago (just visited friends last month) and as much as I love the weather and my friends/family who are still in the area, it's just not my favorite city (I'm more of a NYC kind of gal).

Sending you positive, strengthening, vibes. <3

Thanks, gmc. We moved to CA from VA in 2016. We just moved back from Cali to VA 1.5 years ago. I didn't like Cali that much. I'm definitely an east coast woman. I do NOT want to make that move again! And, yeah, the area we would have to move to doesn't look all that great.

It's not a check in because of his cheating thing. It's just common courtesy to me. I will call or text if I decide to run to the grocery after yoga. One, I want to let him know where I'm going and I'll be later than expected. Two, I always ask if he needs anything. I have asked so many times of the years to provide the same courtesy to me. He still doesn't do it. I'm just over feeling like socks an afterthought.

He came home and started to apologize. I told him I didn't care. He always apologizes and then does it again. I'm over it.

He looked like he was about to cry when I told him I wasn't going to cali under any circumstances. I told him he can go if he wants. I'll go back to our house in NC. He said if he doesn't take this command, it will be the end of his career advancement. I don't care. He's already said he doesn't have enough time to get another promotion, so it won't mean less money for me and the kids. The only reason I didn't ruin his career right after dday was because it would've affected my and my children's financial security.

Hey ladies! Fairly new here, thought I would say hi :)

4 months out from DDay, struggling along through life...

[This message edited by Scubagrl at 9:35 PM, January 16th (Thursday)]