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Betrayed Womenz Thread - Part 3

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CallingSpades posted 12/18/2019 11:47 AM

HHADL, what a perfect surprise! Wishing a very merry Christmas for both you and your beautiful daughter.

Coco, I love that you're stepping away from getting defensive over victim blaming. I need to learn this! I read that thread and I feel it was really self-reflecting. For someone to use that against you is just nuts. What are they trying to get out of doing that to you? It was frustrating to read. I hope I never contribute to that dynamic, but if I do, slap me.

In terms of why WH stepmom and great aunt don't trust him, well they were surprised about the cheating but also not surprised. His biological mom was divorced for similar shenanigans and is now dating someone while married to her second husband. Can we say FOO issues? Anyway these women are not her fans of course, but usually don't say anything about MIL and never about WH. They said, well I guess it's not that surprising: she always has to be admired, and nothing is her fault.

What, specifically, they were afraid WH might do is a) get the wrong impression from me letting him in to play house, amp up the entitlement/blame, and ruin my holiday, and b) install electronic monitoring to collect info to use against me (and I assume get me not to divorce him). Stepmom said he sounded really confident that this would all end well when she talked to him on the phone

I'm going to my son's school this afternoon to make gingerbread houses. He's really excited, so I am too. I usually skip daytime school activities because of work, but we both need some extra support these days!

cocoplus5nuts posted 12/18/2019 12:36 PM

I read that thread and I feel it was really self-reflecting. For someone to use that against you is just nuts. What are they trying to get out of doing that to you?

That's a good question. Thanks for your comment. I am trying to be self analyzing and honest. That was the point. If I were actually narcissistic, I wouldn't be doing that.

I can't say everything I want to say because we're not supposed to talk about other members. Suffice to say that I don't appreciate being put in a box. I also don't appreciate it when other people assume that I or my sitch is just like theirs. Not everyone thinks the way you do, Karen, so stop assuming we are all like you.

CallingSpades posted 12/18/2019 20:48 PM

Oops, broke a rule, removed my own post.

[This message edited by CallingSpades at 8:50 PM, December 18th, 2019 (Wednesday)]

cocoplus5nuts posted 12/19/2019 08:12 AM

Oops, broke a rule, removed my own post.


I got one wrapped gift under the tree! So many boxes that need to be opened and wrapped. I've been so busy taking the kids here and there. My 8yo is in therapy, for goodness sake! Taking my 12yo to a neurologist today. He gets random headaches, nosebleeds, and fevers. The nosebleeds and fevers are less frequent, but the headaches are daily. The NP at his Pediatric office said it was nothing. Good thing I don't need a referral to see a specialist. The place I'm taking him, (huge pediatric specialists practice) has a dedicated headache clinic for kids. It's the same place I take my 8yo for gastroenterology and therapy.

Have I talked about my new IC? I've only seen her twice. Still feeling her out. She asked about my religious beliefs. When I told her I'm atheist, she said she was spiritual, not religious, but she keeps bringing up Christian stuff. I'll have to see how it all plays out.

She talks a lot, too, and sort of jumps around. Like, I brought up some issues with my fch. She said she would recommend a book, but not until after we had a few more sessions. But, by the end of that session, she was going through the book with me and telling me how to use it. 😕🤔

She also said she would be our MC. But, again, the problem is scheduling because of my fch's work. She does have some Saturday hours, but nothing regular right now. Also, idk how it works to have your IC also be your MC.

gmc94 posted 12/19/2019 22:19 PM

HHDL - that gift is pretty damn fucking special. I'm so glad for you.

Coco- My IC was also MC and my WH's IC. It was Ok. There were challenges that had to be worked out. TBH, I'd be more concerned about my WH feeling ganged up on if your WH has no interaction other than MC. I suppose that's an individual by individual issue, as I know some folks that would be fine (but they tend to be more self reflecting types). Just my $0.02.

I read The New Codependence before I read CoD no more. I recall a point where Beattie says something about an interaction that was NOT what she meant in CoD no more (I can't remember the specifics). So, the New Cod is an update to CoD no more and it may have some insights that your WH missed. I usually test drive my books at the library before I buy, and then tend to use an online seller for used books (rarely do I pay more than $10 for a book).

Well, I got a tree. Not yet up, but I have one.

WH's visit with the CSAT seemed to go well. CSAT recommended Out of the Doghouse, that I've seen excerpts from and didn't make my skin crawl (whew!) and a workbook by Carol the Coach titled "help. her. heal." I've listened to some of Carol's podcasts and was not particularly enthralled. Not WTF? but not "oh wow! She gets me" either. Anyhow, we will see if it makes any difference. I gotta let go of the resentment over him dragging his heels and for blowing off my desire that that he use a man for IC (it was damn triggering after dday). CSAT said there were clearly intimacy issues, but also instructed him to take the SA test (it's only been about 10 months since I suggested WH do this... ugh). I guess the positive thing (aside from the books & homework) is that WH actually talked to me about the visit, beyond his usual "we had a good conversation" or some other shit (which he truly believes is the "sharing" that needs to happen to rebuilt trust). Unfortunately, the CSAT will probably only be able to meet every other week - next appt isn't until week after new year's. Anyhow, we'll see. It's a baby step, but at least its in the right direction. I'm trying to stay away from the effing hopium pipe, so I'm reminding myself that none of this means diddly until he actually starts stepping up his game with ACTION.

Maudlin posted 12/20/2019 01:52 AM

Iím in the US at my moms for Christmas. My youngest daughter has had some very hard to hear conversations with my mom, her grandma.

I wasnít aware my SIL had asked her to come there and live with them, if she wanted to be in the US. They did not ask my older daughter, in fact contact since D Day has been minimal with them and LLCAHs side of the family. Itís as though we no longer exist.

My younger daughter never replied, because them asking her but not her sister (who is gay) was repulsive to her. This is the first Iíve heard of it.

And apparently LLCAH told her that ďsince she and her sister are adults he didnít think they would take it (him cheating, us divorcing) so hardĒ.

She is SO pissed he would say that. And so pissed we followed him all over the world and he does this.

She is one mad young woman 😔

All I can say is Iím sorry, but she is correct when she says donít be sorry, I did t do this.

I could seriously carve him slowly into tiny pieces for what he has done to my girls. His girls. Who he swears he loves and would never hurt..,and refuses to acknowledge he has.

Fucking asswipe skunk bag C***

(I feel better when I swear!)

20yrsagoBS posted 12/20/2019 05:51 AM

Welcome Spades!

Make sure you read through the threads to learn the acronyms. Like, my favorite:KITD

Kick in the Dick

Appropriate for holiday stress. Kick Holidays in the Dick

I started a new job on Tuesday, so swamped with work.

I havenít been posting much

Cheater still assumes we can ďget through thisĒ

No, Fucktard, I donít want to be married to a liar

cocoplus5nuts posted 12/20/2019 06:55 AM

GMC, I hope this is a first step for your CH. Sharing more is a good sign.

My fch used to not listen to me, either. I would tell him something that was good for him, like some healthy food. He would ignore me, at the least, or sometimes outright argue with me about. Later, he'd hear or read about it from some random and it was suddenly the best thing ever! That really pisses me off. He seems to be listening to me more. I'll look into that book.

Wrt my IC also being our MC, she made it clear that she would not take sides. She wanted to make sure I understood that because a lot of IC clients will think she should take their side. While I'm still contemplating that, my fch can come to my appointments every once in a while, maybe.

Maudlin, I'm sorry your daughter is hurting. Can you acknowledge her feelings without apologizing? Even something as simple as repeating back to her what she says to you can help. "I understand you're angry at your dad. You're hurt that he would do this to us. Maybe you feel abandoned by him?"

My dad apologizes for things he didn't do. I understand that he's sorry that I'm hurting or whatever, but it does get annoying when he apologizes for that. I have started telling him to not apologize.

I'm getting people saying that they don't think my fch is CoD. I've asked him about it, how he came to that conclusion. He said his IC told him he was, and he has seen it even more in doing some 12 step type work. He says he very strongly relates to the things he reads about CoD. 🤷‍♀️

I've got a cold and I have to teach tomorrow. Ugh!

CallingSpades posted 12/20/2019 17:00 PM

Coco, the issue with you saying something and it's ignored, then respected friend/book/person says it and OMG WS has had a revelation! This drivers me INSANE. WH's biggest one is boundaries with women. I have pointed out over several years (sometimes snapping at him, sure, but also several times calmly explaining why something bothered me) indicated an issue with another woman. For ten years he ALWAYS minimized, denied or deflected (except one time when it was about a coworker's behavior...I said "firstly he shouldn't be doing that, but why did you think it was ok to take a picture? Think of his wife seeing that!" and WH acknowledged that he should not have taken a picture or shown it to me.)

Anyway he read a book recently (probably was in Not Just Friends) that talked about boundaries. So his "why" became, "because I have poor boundaries with women." And he says it all the time like "problem solved." And I'm like, well no shit.

The thing that is most unforgivable to me is that the reason he hears it from these other sources is because he RESPECTS them. So what does that say about his respect for me? I have known for a long time that he doesn't take criticism well, but have come to see that for him a wife has a special place of torture, where she can never judge or question her husband. She must be his biggest fan 24-7. Not that disagreements aren't allowed, but if it can be twisted in ANY way to look like a "character judgement," it's automatically filed in the "disrespectful to be ignored" bin.

Sorry for the rant but I'm super sensitive to this right now. In the wake of DDay, frankly it sickens me. And I know for your H, even though the behavior might be similar, the source would be totally different. For WH, it's Narcissistic injury.

Well I'm so excited. WH is home making dinner. I haven't seen him in 4 months. I'm making literally every excuse not to leave work right now, to include hiding in the bathroom and posting on SI. The adrenaline is through the fucking roof.

Cheater still assumes we can ďget through thisĒ

No, Fucktard, I donít want to be married to a liar

So 20yrsago, I gather the appropriate response to WH would be...KITD!! I'm going to count how many times I think this acronym to myself tonight, and report back in the morning Womenz you are seriously life savers.

Maudlin... I honestly cannot think of anything worse after being betrayed by a spouse, than being betrayed by family. Wishing you all the strength you need.

gmc baby steps are awesome! Happy for you both!!

cocoplus5nuts posted 12/20/2019 18:02 PM

CS, good luck tonight. The why your CH has come up with is an excuse. If he thinks he's done with that, he's sorely mistaken.

I think the source of my fch's disrespect, because that's exactly what it is, comes from conventional parenting that sent the message that the man is the head of the household and the wife is secondary to him.

I don't think my fch is conscious of that. He doesn't act as if he thinks women are second class citizens. I think it's a dynamic he saw in his parents' M and doesn't think about it. He's very much a person who does things because that's what has always been done. He doesn't question things. Drives me crazy! Empty headed!

He even said he expected a Leave it to Beaver marriage and family life. Idk why the hell he married me for that. I'm about as unconventional as they come. His parents' relationship was so messed up. He has no clue. He describes his family and childhood as idyllic.

I keep forgetting about manifestation. Someone, either Ellie or HHADL, said she was going to manifest sobriety for gmc's daughter. I meant to say that I'm going to do the same. I'm going to manifest sobriety for gmc's daughter and progress for her CH.

gmc, your daughter will find sobriety. Your CH will continue to progress, even if it's baby steps. That does not mean you have to stick around for it, of course. You can still D if you want. Your life will be better and you will have companionship in your old age.

skeetermooch posted 12/20/2019 22:00 PM

Hey all,

I wanted to ask if folks would try not to use fucktard. My son is mentally retarded and I'm super triggered by people using that word or parts of it to identify assholes or stupid people.

I know I'm new here - so sorry if it's forward of me. It's just so off putting.

[This message edited by skeetermooch at 10:01 PM, December 20th (Friday)]

EllieKMAS posted 12/20/2019 22:10 PM

I went to dinner with a friend of mine today and she got me a lotus candle holder made out of swarovski crystals. Holy shitsnacks it is the SPARKLIEST sparkly that ever sparkled! Looked at it in the sun and I think I heard my brain blow a fuse

Skeet - I will try my level best, but that is one I use so just apologizing in advance if I forget and slip up. How you doin today?

20yobs - long time no see! Hope you're hanging in there!

Anyone else not called out by name, I have been thinkin of the womenz and hope you are all doing as ok as you can. I am SO FUCKING READY for 2019 to go the fuck away. 11 more days.

skeetermooch posted 12/20/2019 22:26 PM

Thanks, Ellie - I wasn't thinking of you in particular - I get it's in the lexicon and it's apt in it's way. It's the new "gay" - remember when everything bad was gay?

Your lotus candle holder sounds divine. Post pics.

I'm doing ok - struggling a bit - kind of sad. My STBX did a decent thing for a change yesterday and now I'm a little piney but holding back from engaging with him. I still hate his fucking guts. I hope his penis is soon covered in warts that never go away.


Parties the next two nights and that's going to be hard but I'm giving myself permission to leave early if I need to.

EllieKMAS posted 12/20/2019 23:13 PM

No worries Skeet I wasn't feeling singled out. Just want you to know that if I slip up 20 pages from now, I just forgot and mean no offense :)

I would love to share the sparkly fabulousness, but I don't know how to share my personal pics...

Parties - I always advocate having an 'exit' plan. Well, scratch that. I used to care, but kinda don't anymore. I'll stay if I want, or I'll go. Anyone that doesn't like it can kiss my ass on my way out the door You don't owe anyone to stay if you'd rather be home with no bra on in your jammies like sensible folks. I won't judge!

Just remember - his 'nice' is just manipulation. Truly. If he was nice, your badass self wouldn't be here right now. It's hard in the early days, but practice truly does make perfect.

I got my final stamped official D decree two days ago. I was oddly excited looking at it. Especially the part where it gives me my name back. It's nice to know I am ME again.

skeetermooch posted 12/21/2019 10:42 AM


Congrats on the decree and getting your name back!!

I definitely prefer the no bra and jammies situation

Believe me, I'm not trusting him based on one decent gesture in months and months. He will do the bare minimum to reel me back and the instant I'm back even a tiny bit, he reverts to lying asshole. I'm a slow learner but I'm starting to get it.

gmc94 posted 12/21/2019 11:55 AM


Skeeter - maybe we can start absorbing "fuckwart" as a replacement? I really like the mental imagary of a wartcovered penis (and no one has to know but us...). Personally I'm a fan of "asshat" (and I think of a head that's really a butt, cuz that's what a cheater's mind has been replaced with).

Anywho, thanks to all for manifestations. It's tough. Huge trigger/blow up over the last 36 hours. I'm processing through my triggers, but dunno how much hurt/damage I may have caused DD.

I'm pleased with myself for being able to (sometimes) find gratitude that is the shitshow of my life as a BS, as a woman who is about to lose her job (via contract, not being fired), and as mother to an addict DD. There is something simultaneously horrifying and helpful in recognizing my part in DD's FOO/history (that does not mean I caused her addiction, but that I do want to acknowledge & own the ways in which I was the mom that I wanted, but not the mom that SHE wanted or needed... AND the ways in which I was just a crappy mom altogether).

The dynamic is strange to see that in DD's eyes, I'm like her WS. So when I have the knee-jerk reaction to be (or, sadly, actually behave like) an asshat (eg defensive, angry, etc) to her, I have to try and take a step back and ask myself what I would want from my WH. I think God, higher power, whatever is smacking my ass around pretty good... and I can see some ways in which i needed it, it is helpful, and it is growth. Growth kind of sucks while going through it :)

[This message edited by gmc94 at 11:56 AM, December 21st, 2019 (Saturday)]

cocoplus5nuts posted 12/21/2019 14:45 PM

((gmc)) We all do the best we can with the knowledge and skills we have at the time. Understanding and accepting that is what finally helped me forgive my mom. It also helps me forgive myself when I fuck up.

The fact that you can look at yourself and change what you think could help is a lot. My mother could not do that. That, in and of itself, shows that you are a good mom. You love your DD. That's all any of us can do.

Ellie, congrats on getting your name back! One more step in taking your life back.

I know I'm new here - so sorry if it's forward of me. It's just so off putting.

Don't apologize. I don't like anything with -tard at the end, either. I'm glad you spoke up.

EllieKMAS posted 12/21/2019 17:19 PM


FUCKWART FOR THE FUCKING WIN I need a definition for this one cus I think it needs to go into the dictionary!

Thanks about my name ladies, can't wait to get my married name the FUCK out of my life!

Soooo had a creepy AF thing today. The exdouchehole's psycho ex wife messaged me on fb. Said that she told me he was gonna cheat (fair enough, she did a few months before the wedding in 2013), and that he beat her, and that he owes her $2k from their D in 2010 still. Oh and that she suggests I sell my house and move on with my life (pot kettle much bitch?). And ended it with "He isn't polyamorous, he just wants license to cheat".

This is the same ratchet hoochie that created fake SM accounts and started friend requesting my entire family 3 years after xdouche and I were married. GD psycho.

Had a minor meltdown cus it just makes my skin crawl that she is doing this shit still. No worries - I did NOT respond and will not. Deleted and blocked. And last I know she lives somewhere in Florida, so not worried about her showing up or anything.

But seriously. I am a decent human and a kind person and a sane woman despite everything - why do assholes vex me? WTF universe??

cocoplus5nuts posted 12/21/2019 19:00 PM

But seriously. I am a decent human and a kind person and a sane woman despite everything - why do assholes vex me? WTF universe??

So, I know this is rethorical, but... I'm going to go into some seriously woowoo shit.

I have some friends who are into the Law of Attraction and vibrations and frequencies. They say that we all exist on certain frequencies. Our mental, emotional, and spiritual health basically determine our frequency. Our frequency attracts others who are at the same frequency or below us. If we want to change the types of people and experiences in our lives, we have to change our frequency. We have to manifest what we want. Manifesting is as simple as making positive statements, affirmations, about what you want.

If you want to attract more confident people, you say to yourself, "I am confident." If you want more money, you say, "I create wealth in my life." "My life is full of abundance." If you want to be healthier, you say, "I am healthy." "I am strong." "I make healthy lifestyle choices."

YouTube has tons of affirmation videos to listen to. Just search for what you want to manifest.

20yrsagoBS posted 12/21/2019 19:21 PM

Tonight my Schnauzer died.

He was WHís dog. WH kept dragging his feet about euthanasia, but I knew it was past time.

So, instead of feeling sad for WHís loss, I am pissed that we let a sweet dog suffer because WH is a stubborn douche

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