SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Layla please, you are so wrong, i have NEVER cheated on my wife nor had any intention to, neither did i cheat in a previous three year relationship we just grew apart.

Had never not have never

I did not use Claire...

...I just told (WW) this was payback time.

Do you see the disconnect between these two thoughts?

We still don’t know if you two are in R or not, but think through the logical worst case scenario- You take your AP on this whirlwind romantic trip to Spain, all the while reveling in feeling desired while your WW suffers. Meanwhile your AP develops deeper feelings and when you return wants to “make a go of things.” What do you say then?

IF the answer is yes let’s you and me foster a romantic partnership, you’re doing so with a woman who willingly hooked up with a married man. I’m sure that will not sit well with you forever.

However even if that scenario doesn’t play out, you have acknowledged that AP is, in essence, the instrument of your “payback.” You, my friend, have used her. No two ways around it.

I can’t begin to feel your pain at betrayal. But I can recognize a lot of cheating tendencies in your insistence in visiting pain on those who hurt you. I’m not a particularly Christian man but believe in forgiveness. The energy wasted in revisiting and doling out revenge and pain is, IMO, better served in bettering ourselves and our respective situations.

I think there are plenty of MHs who will describe the grasping for meaning, and the desperate desire to regain control and be desirable that fed into an RA of much more LIMITED scope- That is, a ONS. This is something very different- The amount of deliberate action and calculated hurt built into this plan is, quite honestly, more than even a lot of the cheaters on here are capable of.

By your own account, your WW has shown remorse and is doing the work to repair your M. You, in turn, are saying there's no way you'll reciprocate in kind. NC for her and severe consequences for both her and OM if it's broken. Casual contact for you and AP and no consequences of any kind for your lover.

You don't want equity, you want hypocrisy.

[This message edited by BraveSirRobin at 11:57 AM, November 5th (Tuesday)]

I am curious about a few things:

Does your wife bring up the issue you still see the AP?

Do you all, or have you discussed the details of your affair?

Do you talk about her affair?

What does she do to work on herself? And you? Are either of you in therapy or marriage counseling?

What do you consider is the state of your marriage?

I know that I would not want you to continue to see your AP in any capacity, especially since it's recreational. Perhaps she is not as bothered. But, You wanted her to quit her job and she did. Does she bring this up? Why do you think it's okay she needed to quit her job but you quitting your running group is untouchable? Does she agree with this logic?

I'm a BW and in my opinion you lost the moral highground as soon as you cheated. Unless you were separated with an agreement that you were free to see other people your behaviour was as bad as your WWs.

I hope your behaviour at home is not as arrogant as your posts are coming across because you may just lose your wife!

I was honest with my wife I told her where I was going and who with, she had a crying and sobbing breakdown but I just told her this was payback time.

In this thread you say that you told her who you were going with. In your other thread, you said you told her when and where but not who.

Which is it?

On the Tuesday before we left for Seville i refused to tell her who it was but she kept on asking me over and over again until on the Thursday morning when the taxi was due to arrive in a few minutes and i had my weekend bag packed and i was waiting by the door she was still in my face so i lost it and just blurted out "its Claire ok and its payback time now are you happy"

My apologies for the confusion.

What outcome do you desire from telling your story?

If you ask for what you want, you might get it.

To sort my head out, to expunge the guilt of the awful thing i said to her, to believe we can be happy together again and not just in a rut together.

BS here - no stop sign

For me to consider cheating on my husband, I'd have to knowingly inflict the very pain I felt at his betrayal back on him. While he betrayed me with intention, there was no malice. But for me to betray him now, with full awareness of how much that betrayal hurts, it would have to include malice.

Likewise, you intentionally inflicted the very pain you felt on your wife, relishing in her pain as you went out the door. That. Is. Malice.

There is no love in this marriage.

None.

Period.

Your cheating was not caused by your wife's cheating. It was caused by your lack of love and empathy for her, and without respect for the magnitude of pain you would knowingly inflict on her.

Eye for an eye never works in a marriage. Even with infidelity.

You haven't reached the point to realize this is what you knowingly, intentionally and maliciously did to your wife. I would hold myself as having the greater sin had I cheated in revenge on my husband, because I had full awareness of the pain infidelity caused me while he was just plain selfish and clueless. Awareness. Consciousness. That's the difference between your wife's infidelity and yours.

Deal with it. Face it. You are not your wife's victim. She. Is. Yours.

Echoing k8la, every word.

I really have to wonder what you could possibly have said to your wife that you think is worse than what you describe doing to her here. And then you write admiring words about AP, who deliberately colluded with you in inflicting that pain to "fill her glass full."

How exactly do you expect that telling us these things will expunge your guilt?

Skadu, bingo! I would swear that without my WW A there would have been no RA, my reason whilst not acceptable to some was nonetheless was my genuine reason.

IF THERE WAS NO A THEN THERE WOULD HAVE BEEN NO RA

If he only did chores around the house. If she only didn’t burn dinner. If he didn’t golf every Sunday. If she was more adventurous in bed.

If. If. If.

Everyone has a reason and the truth is none of those reasons matter. Your reason is not better than any of the hollow reasons those of us who have betrayed our spouses had. It does not make it okay. It doesn’t justify cheating. You are not 5 years old where your excuse is “But she did it first!”

So what now? You didn’t answer my last post. Is everything between you forgiven now? You both move on with the same rules applied to each of you? You’re both on equal footing after all. Or do you envision something else?

Can I please respond tomorrow, it is nearly midnight in London

This is an interesting topic, and one I know is quite fiery to most people. Far be it from me to ever condone an RA, but let me play devil's advocate for a minute.

We all know that people handle being a BS differently. For some people it's a dealbreaker. Some people suffer silently. Some people blow the roof off. Some people immediately try to R. Some people can never get over the "injustice" of it, or the permanent inequality that remains in the marriage.

Men, in particular, get emasculated by affairs. I'm not saying it isn't crushing to BWs as well. But we even have a word for men who are BS--cuckolds. I don't think a term exists with the same power for women. It's deeply shameful and strikes at the very core of what it is to be a man. To be strong, to be tough. BHs immediately feel like we have "lost" to the AP. To all other men. We've failed. We wonder if we're really even a man, still.

There is a powerful, deep shame associated with being a BH and I honestly don't think BW feel that shame the same way. They feel other things, of course, but not the societal shame like men do.

Obviously both BW and BH think about RAs, especially early on. Speaking in (probably too wide) generalities, I wonder if men struggle more with the temptation of it both due to our sexual drive, and our need to feel like " a man again" whereas women probably don't need to feel like "a woman again" after being cheated on.

I do honestly wonder if--in some circumstances, where there is no deceit and lying about the RA--if it actually does increase the chances of R. Situations where the BH would otherwise just walk away.

Of course there is a HUGE layer of toxic sludge, soul searching, and work to do on both sides afterwards. But a BH feeling like his manhood is "reclaimed" is a tangible thing, at least in the short term.

The fact you hold yourself to a much lower standard than your wife is telling. You demand NC from her but you continue to have contact with your AP (no matter how limited) because it would impact on your social life to go NC. Well that's what you get for sh*****g where you eat!

Now my wifes AP knew she was married and should not have considered having an affair with my wife he had the obligation of common decency.

OP, these are your own words about your WW's AP didn't your AP have the same obligation?

Posted in your other thread as well as I felt it was relevant in both.

If I didn't get the sense that your conscience wasn't so severely seared over, I could recommend a book that you and your wife could study to rehabilitate your marriage.

However, you seem to be so steeped in self-justification, that I think you are posting here to continue stamping down any life your conscience may have left in it, to rally sympathizers to pat you on the back for "standing strong and taking back your balls."

Sorry I can't help you. Feel free to reach out if you find you want to give that impulse to find compassion for your wife for what you have done to her a bit of nourishment. I'll then recommend the book to study.

Twicewounded,

I suppose it would depend on the man. I talked to my h about this thread because there were so many that immediately followed it, there is a lot of thought provoking aspects of it.

He said that part of his definition of being a man is to be able to take care of and protect his wife (and he did add half jokingly despite her stupidity) To hold himself to the standards in which he was raised. He feels that my having an affair was very weak-minded and showed an interdependence that he didn’t feel I possessed- and found it very unattractive. He felt that someone who has a revenge affair is likely not able to possess the emotional maturity to move past the affair anyway. He feels someone with that mentality will have a harder time finding the independence needed to heal themselves despite their circumstance because it shows a propensity towards self medicating and the same kind of interdependence that I exhibited in my affair. That you need someone else to prop you up instead of finding that piece of you that you can use and rely on to prop yourself up. He also said that to need that you would have to concede to the idea that your wife cheated on you because you were lacking something. So you look to another woman to show you that you aren’t. Instead, it’s healthier to understand that you weren’t lacking anything, your wife was and it’s her who has to go fetching around to find those things.

It was a good conversation and I tend to agree with him.

I’m all over the place with how I feel about RAs -it really just depends on the day and the mood I’m in I guess. One thing I will never waver on - if the BS decides to partake in a RA and still try and pursue reconciliation, they must still follow the rules of being a WS - which includes absolutely NO CONTACT. If that means you have to give up your running club, you should’ve thought of that before you went and took your AP to Spain.

We expect Waywards to give up cars, jobs, hobbies, friends, family, etc. I would expect no less from a BS who became a WS - it’s what happens when you cheat and don’t think about the consequences.