SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

At the same time this has been a wake-up call to me for our marriage and conditions that could have possibly led to her even considering such an action.

If your WW had murdered you or someone else instead of cheating on you, do you think you would have been culpable for that as well? It's all about free will. She had it and used it and you had nothing to do with that decision.

This is the classic error. Quite literally nothing in the marriage caused her to do anything. That is either gas lighting or rug sweeping.

She had the affair because she wanted to have the affair. She’d still be having it if she had not been caught.

I’m not saying this to be crass, I’m saying this so that you align your thinking in a way most likely creating results

Listen to Sharkman please.

You are rationalising reconciliation based not on her true remorse but on your minimising her responsibility for this cold-blooded betrayal.

She knew exactly what she was doing every step of the way. It had nothing to do with you, it was all on her. There were no out of body experiences just out of clothes experiences with her AP.

Without full accountability the reconciliation will fail at some point in time. Stay strong and allow her to show you her strength and belief in your marriage or not as the case may be.

[This message edited by SorrowfulMoon at 7:29 PM, March 7th (Thursday)]

Empathizing with the WS is almost equal to rugsweeping.

I'm not saying you can't reconcile. But don't sacrifice your morals.

The A was a fatal choice. Can you accept it and move on towards R? It will depend on what you are willing to accept. Don't EVER sacrifice your core values for something that you perceive to be less than what you value most.

Bahama, as glad as I am that you are doing what you feel is right, I feel that you need to listen to what some of the others here are telling you.

First of all, her cheating was not a mistake. But neither was it a fuckup as you put it. It was, quite simply, an evil action as a result of an evil choice based on complete disregard for anyone but her wants and lack of morals and character strength. That is what it was and you need to see that.

Second, her actions on discovery and confrontation, showed you the real her. "I paid for the bed so if you want, sleep elsewhere, I am not leaving it" is vile. "I am not sure about NC", "You caused this", "Why are you trying to destroy me" etc showed you the real her. Making the OBS out to be paranoid and enlisting your help in that showed you just how evil and vile she is and can be. And as others have said this would be still going on if she was not caught.

You then gave us a master class in how to justify her affair. All that stuff about the "doll house" she was raised in etc. I must say it was impressive but sickening to read.

And finally she saw a lawyer who told her she was about to be dragged through hell and that was when she precisely wanted to really "work on the marriage".

So make no mistake - you have romanticised and justified her actions. I wonder if this lack of aggression comes from being a stay at home dad. I know I will be dragged over the coals for saying this, but no matter what she says, women do not respect stay at home dads who are not breadwinners or at the very least secondary breadwinners. But not working and staying at home - she almost certainly had more respect for the POSOM and hence attraction for him. If he had decided to leave his wife for her, she would be gone.

This is the truth as I see it and I believe you should take all this into consideration as you decide how to proceed.

Bahama

I feel at this moment in time the most important thing to focus on is not the marriage and what it lacked (there will be plenty of time for that) but for you to get help thru IC on how to deal with the overwhelming pain her actions have caused you.

You gave her the gift of trust, and she abused that trust greatly. Trust to have a non emotional and non physical relationship with a good looking successful training partner.

In the end she gave herself to him in all the ways she vowed to give to you. She was more connected to him emotionally and physically the last 6 months and spent more meaningful time with him than with you, her husband. That is something that is going to take some work in IC for you to learn to live with.

Plus she threw away the trust you had that if she was hurting she’d come to you to discuss and if you were too busy raising your kids and running your household to notice she should have screamed “I’m drowning here, help me!” Not gone and F’d another man to ease her troubles like she did.

And you gave her trust that if you gave up your career in order to advance hers that she wouldn’t resent you for it and wouldn’t look down on you for it, which I believe she absolutely started to do and used as justification for her actions.

At the same time she needs to focus on rebuilding her coping skills. Making the absolutely worst choice of how to fix issues in her marriage is a common story here.

She has proven that she is NOT special in this way but now joins the ranks of cheaters. She needs to come to terms now that this is who she is and learn what it is to live with it, understand it and work to change who she is and how she thinks and copes so she can be safe for you or the next partner if you choose D.

She also needs to learn how to help you heal. Discussing it with her IC and also doing reading and research on her own.

All That takes a lot of work. And must be done first before issues on your marriage can truly be addressed.

You’re doing well, but I think I and others are trying to make sure you understand this concept of where to focus your attentions and don’t try to rush thru it all to get back to your normal. It will never be normal again. The work will take you both to a new normal eventually.

You will be riding a rollercoaster the next several months and while it will diminish over time in its extremities, it will take a long time until you feel you are on solid ground again.

You are in no way an arrogant person, but it’s normal to feel right away “I got this” when you are grasping to find a hand hold to steady yourself. But truthfully you won’t “have this” for a long time.

We’re confident you can get there, but it’s gonna take determination like no triathlon has ever pushed an athlete.

Keep posting. You’re asking the right questions. We’ll keep responding.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 1:25 AM, March 8th (Friday)]

Discussing it with her IC and also doing reading and research on her own

In some ways its a pity Bahama cant share SI with her. I think she would learn a great deal from sharing her story on the Wayward forum and exchanging thoughts and feelings with other WW's. perhaps something to think about for the future....

(2) quick things:

--As usual, read Stevesn's post above. Always sound, level-headed advice.

--The second is a small threadjack to marriageredux's post about a possibility of moving forward:

What if these two adults stand in front of each other, look each other in the eye, and say,

"That was stupid. It will never happen again. I'm sorry I disrespected you. I'm sorry I disrespected our family and put it in jeopardy. I'm sorry I disrespected our past and all of the work and commitment you've invested in being my husband. I'm sorry I jeopardized our future and put it at risk. I'm sorry I took advantage of your trust. I know why I did it and it was because BLAH BLAH BLAH FOO issues, work stress, wanted to escape my life, loved the attention, needed the adrenaline rush, BLAH BLAH BLAH and here's how I'm going to address that. Or, I have no idea why I did that stupid thing but I'm going to therapy and I'm going to find out."

"I accept your apology and your re-commitment to us. I forgive you. If you do this again, I'm gone- but I'm going to have faith in this moment that you will never do it again."

And, just like that- it's over. Moving on.

Yes, I know. RUG SWEEPING. But what if it's not?

Is it really rug sweeping if the WS is going to investigate, and address, their poor boundaries and behaviors that led up to this? You specifically state above that issues are not going to be ignored. Isn't that what the BS is looking for? For their partner to recognize their fault(s)….and attempt to rectify them?

jb3199:

Is it really rug sweeping if the WS is going to investigate, and address, their poor boundaries and behaviors that led up to this? You specifically state above that issues are not going to be ignored. Isn't that what the BS is looking for? For their partner to recognize their fault(s)….and attempt to rectify them?

Sir, you are absolutely correct, and you made my point better than I did.

Based on a lot of reading here at SI, I felt that my assertion that the path forward could be direct (and actually fairly simple) would be met with cries of "RUG SWEEPING!" But, what if it's not?

What if it's really just as simple as moving forward, positively?

Manfromlamancha - you have a pm.

Bahama:

As you can see you are receiving a wide range of opinions. I have to agree with Stevesn and he has laid out sound advice. I second the idea of IC. You’re a smart guy and perfectly capable of taking the advice you can use and leave the rest. Marriageredux has also raised some good points, which boils down to “you do you”. Trust your own gut, and as jb3199 points out if the issues are not being ignored and your WW is consistent in recognizing her faults and working to become a better, safe partner it is not rugsweeping. Good luck.

There are many studies that show happily married people still cheat. Often it has to do with proximity. If you are around someone all day every day or at least several hours a week they are either going to become friends or more/less than that. They can become someone you think about constantly or someone who gets on your last nerve but it is not going to stay neutral. Bike riding with a member of the opposite sex is asking for trouble. Any shared coed hobby is going to be asking for trouble. I frankly do not believe that men and women can be friends unless it has been all of their lives particularly from early childhood. It then becomes more brother and sister and takes the sexual thoughts out. Anyone you meet after you’ve gone through puberty is a possible sex partner. It is really that simple. That is why I hope this was a one off for her. I hope that she really gets how badly she has hurt you and that she loves you enough to work diligently to fix her wayward thinking.. Frankly I think therapy is a waste of time for a wayward unless they are somehow disordered, serial cheating, narcissism etc. I think the betrayed needs therapy to help with anger and sadness and grief and how to resolve things to move forward. Wywards need to dig in and figure out why they would consciously hurt a person they are committed to.

Another day here. Just like my tag line has become, I'm only taking it one day at a time and really one moment at a time.

I feel I have my head on straight today. I spent some quality time with my W last night. The culmination of the time was at bedtime when we were about to turn out the lights. She spontaneously began crying about how she felt that I might be happier and this whole situation might be better for me if she just wasn't here anymore. She cried as she showed remorse for how bad she has hurt me and our family. She wept for what has hit her as the loss of everything good she had and threw away with the A. She again apologized and begged me to forgive her. The reality of her loss has hit her with full force.

This triggered a massive release of emotion from me. I can't say I'd ever wept in my life, but I did last night. All the emotion came flooding out. I sobbed like a child for what seemed like an eternity. I wanted to stop but couldn't. Her reaction was to immediately stop her crying and hold me repeating how sorry she was over and over. We were both so tore up. It was a powerful moment I believe for both of us.

After things settled down and we got back under control of ourselves, she asked me what I had said to my IC. I chose to tell her. I said it was basically just the story up until the letters we had written the other day. She asked if I would tell her my story and how I'd been seeing all of this. I was hesitant but decided to do that. I began from the beginning and told her how my suspicions developed, how I searched for evidence, how I battled my gut instincts, how I found out. How I confronted her and attacked the A. Most importantly I relayed in great honest detail how I'd felt though all of this.

I could tell my story hurt her deeply and she wept as she said she'd wished she'd known. It ended with her saying that she wanted to do anything and everything she can to try and fix the damage. I simply thanked her. I relayed that it was going to be a long road to recovery if we can get there. I told her that even if we get to a point of "normal" and somehow can build a marriage 2.0 that I'm going to have this painful memory for the rest of my life. I told her she had a lot of work to do to help me heal. I let her know what she had done and does that is helping and she said she'd make sure she continues and more. I talked about some of the triggers I felt and she wants to take an active role in helping eliminate them. She is trying and showing me actions that she's still here and willing to fight for us.

I'm just going to continue day by day to process and heal. It's going to take time I know. The doors of communication are open and we are trying.

One day at a time, one minute at a time.

Bahama,

I think you are handling things about as well as you can. Honestly I'm a little surprised at all the doom and gloom on your thread. It appears your ww is starting to do her part in helping you heal. You still have a long road to travel, but it appears your ww is onboard to join you if you will let her.

If something changes (break in NC, additional TT, etc) then more drastic measures may be needed, but from what you've written, things seem to be moving in the right direction.

She appears to continue to take positive actions like wanting to know your story and how you are feeling rather than just wanting to say how it all happened because she was unhappy. This is all very good to begin to show remorse. Of course be vigilant. Actions are the key, not just words. But at this point she is beginning to do the right things. See if she does follow through and continue to take the actions that you told her were positive. All good positive baby steps. One day at a time. Take care of you. Get into IC if you can. Keep up your athletic endeavors and exercise. You two seem to be on the right path. Good luck.

[This message edited by fareast at 2:42 PM, March 8th (Friday)]

The foundation of truly happy Reconciled M relies on hundreds of the moments you just described.

You are doing very well

When you are in hell you keep moving.

I could tell my story hurt her deeply and she wept as she said she'd wished she'd known.

Wished she had known what?

Hang in there, you have been taking some big steps on a long road.

Bahama your last update is very good and I was happy to read it. Not that you’re both in pain, of course, but that you’re in a place of honest, raw sharing with your WS. This is good.

I want to caution you about the forest through the trees comment and having compassion for her. I am a (child and adolescent) therapist in real life, and not long after I found out about my WSs affair, I thought I had it pretty well figured out. I could trace it back to his childhood, to every thing I knew about his relationship with his parents, the way he moved in the world, the way he handled his past romantic relationships, and all his maladaptive coping skills. I saw the contributing factors from our marriage, and I SAW who he was. I felt... empathy, compassion, a deep sadness for his brokenness and for the downfall of our marriage. The problem was, I saw that and he knew I did and I tried to help him through it as I was reeling from my own pain. That got me a second d-day. The A never again was physical, but he broke no contact and was using her as a “friend.” He hadn’t hit rock bottom. He wasn’t ready to face himself... he was okay with me doing all the work for us.

Welp, after that I found my anger. I also found divorce papers. I threw him out and we separated for 6 months. It was then that HE became interested in learning about his why, in learning about all the things

I’m not saying this because I think you’re at risk for a second d-day right now, or saying your wife is like my husband... I’m simply saying, she must must must do her own work. Do not tell her your ideas (yet) about where your marriage faltered. Do not tell her your thoughts about the way her career has impacted her capacity to access feelings and manage difficult emotional situations. All those thoughts and that compassion, especially about your marriage? Journal it, write it here, tell your confidantes. But let her do ALL her own digging. First, her truth could be different than you think it may be, and second, the work must be 100% hers if you will successfully R. Don’t think you can love her through this in that way. You can love her despite this, as many of us choose to do.

Keep up the good work, feeling all the pain now SUCKS so much but it’s the fastest way through it, no matter what you decide. Best of luck to you.

I could tell my story hurt her deeply and she wept as she said she'd wished she'd known. It ended with her saying that she wanted to do anything and everything she can to try and fix the damage.

I think it is important for both of you to accept the fact that history cannot be rewritten. What was done was done.

However, the future can be what you make it. There is a lot that your wife needs to figure out, and to report back to you, but if what she says passes muster with you, then by all means try and continue the relationship if that is what you want.

I do think that your wife may need a psychological analysis to make sure that the detachment she has to have to do her job professionally does not extend into her private life, and create the capacity for her to treat her husband and children in the same detached way as she has to treat people who show up in the ER room when she is on duty.

I am concerned that she keep saying that so many elements of the affair meant nothing to her, because there was clearly something that kept her going back. If it was dumb lust and nothing more, so be it. However, she has to bottom out the reasons for why she did this to her family and marriage. And, by extension, to you.

It does seem from what you have posted that your wife is turning this into something about her as the star. For example, the statement about ruining her life. That ignores the other lives that have been adversely impacted by her affair; it is about more than her. She isn't the victim; she is the perpetrator. That does not mean she has to be nailed to the barn door, but it does mean that she should not be given a 'get out of infidelity free' card.

You should tell her your feelings, etc. Not in a vindictive way but if you internalize it can lead to resentment and bitterness.

Plus she's not a mind reader. She isn't on the receiving end of this. Communication is key.

If R is what you're working towards you must do your part too. This is part of it.

Avg time is 2-5 years. You both have a long way to go.

You are correct you can forgive but even though it will dissipate over time it will remain in some form and never fully go away.

[This message edited by Bahama at 8:46 AM, March 21st (Thursday)]