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I think you should be really careful about telling the OBS that you know there's been NC.

You check her phone,and it's clean. She knows you check her phone. She's not stupid.

She's a doctor. She has access to a work phone,most likely? Do you have that password? Regardless, there are plenty of phones at the hospital. Does she have an office? Heck, a burner phone is $10 at the dollar store. Have you put a var in her car? It sounds like OM most likely has a phone at the office. His wife wouldn't have access to that.

It's fairly typical for one of the AP's to break NC. Especially when the affair was a PA and an EA.

I find it odd that both your wife, and the OM, are basically behaving the same way, now that they've both been caught. Saying the same things,and doing the same things.

You said you dont think you want all the sexual details. Understandable. However, I think it's important to know if she had sex with both of you on the same day. It sounds like you,and the OBS, are getting a very watered down version of the PA side of things.

True reconciliation has to have a foundation of complete,and total, honesty. Otherwise, it crumbles.

JSmart - Grown women get acne. I'm nearly 60 and get outbreaks when I've had a particularly stressful time in my life and/or eat like crap. But I don't mess with my hormones; I was stupid and cavalier about them when I was younger. Now I use detoxers like greens and alfalfa to clear it up.

Ouch...I'm sorry about the BC.

The BC was an unexpected window into just how premeditated and calculated the sexual part of her affair was. A detailed timeline will be painful but at least it puts it all out there at once for you to discuss/process.

Agree k8la. I have no idea if she's lying, but I have adult acne at 52 that is worse than I ever had in high school. BCP are also prescribed for PMS, heavy bleeding, etc. May not be legit, but it's plausible.

I'd also add that BCP themselves aren't the problem. Instead, it's a problem if she's lying about her motivation for getting on them. Frankly, getting on BC to prevent pregnancy with an AP is better than getting pregnant. My WH did not use BC regularly with his AP, though she told me that she "knew her cycle was very regular" so they used condoms when she was ovulating. At 48, it didn't occur to her that her cycle could become very irregular very quickly. Thankfully, no pregnancy but that was reason # eleventy-million that I burst my WH's little lurve bubble after d-day.

Has the OM had a vasectomy? Does your wife have acne? I assume she is in her late 20s or early 30s. Odd age to have it. If “yes” to both those questions then us posters can breathe a sigh of relief for you.

'if I can really live with not knowing some things and just move forward without dwelling in the past.'

You will definitely live without not knowing all details.

There is too much dwelling for BSs on "whys", trying to understand cheater's mindset, etc. It is a total waste of time, but unfortunately unescapable when dealing with a betrayal trauma.

Do not overthink all details about A, quality of sex, emotions, what they felt at the time, etc. The reality is much simpler than that, at least from 3 yrs after DDay perspective.

Your wife emotionally checked out from M and it was irrelevant to her how her fun time make you feel. This is a painful truth, and the sooner you accept it, the faster healing is going to be. It was her conscious choice, to choose something that provided her a thrill and she could escape her boredom/depression, even if it meant to betray you. Your feelings were not considered at all.

More important question you should ask yourself is can you really live with a wife, whom you shared with another man? Marriage is a special union between a man and a woman and there is no room for a third person, whom your wife injected, and whose presence, no matter how minuscule, is going to be felt as long as you stay with her.

The one thing that bothers me about her being on the pill is that I got a vasectomy ~2 years ago so she could get off birth control

You are right to be worried. There is NO reason for her to be on BC, if you had vasectomy. Tell her to stop it immediately.

I recall my WH used to have couple condoms in his gym bag with a tooth brush, toothpaste, etc. I dismissed it as a guy's thing to have it with him, although in our 10 yrs M he never used it for sex with me, as sex was always at home only. Following DDay he does not carry them anymore, and I felt really stupid not ever questioning him before.

The birth control was something she just confessed when I asked for details. I plan to get more information about this and yes I'm deciding to ask her to stop it immediately. It's a trigger because I know the only reason she started it was because of the affair.

i slightly worry that your love for your wife is borderline obsessional Bahama: To the extent that you would forgive her practically anything, say -in theory - even conceiving her AP's child. Love for anyone's spouse is obviously a beautiful, beautiful thing but has to be matched with self respect. you previously remarked that the idea of divorce terrified you: Perhaps, if at all possible, you need to train yourself to think that either D or R are both real possibilities. IC could help here.

BS ONLY

[This message edited by SI Staff at 7:25 PM, October 14th (Monday)]

Curious as to what she has to say about using BC (meaning her and OM were NOT using protection) and basically NOT giving a damn by putting her lustful desires over you by putting your health at risk?

The birth control was something she just confessed when I asked for details. I plan to get more information about this and yes I'm deciding to ask her to stop it immediately. It's a trigger because I know the only reason she started it was because of the affair.

Why hasn't she voluntarily stopped using BC if she's NC with the OM (and it's over)?

There are limits. I do still think about divorce. I'm not willing to sacrifice my own self respect to tolerate anything for her. Yes, the idea of divorce scares me. It scares me because I do still love the person who did this to me. It's because I know that the person who did this was not the same person I married. It scares me to think of throwing away 14 years of good times together, rip apart a family and hurt my kids, because of a short term affair. Could it still happen, time will tell.

I caution you not to ask questions that you don't want the answer too. You are obviously curious, but it won't help in your recovery. Additionally, I would advise against coming off the birth control, until you two are ready to have another child. Both of you are under a lot of stress right now and a pregnancy is not good for any of you, including the baby.

You say that she is contrite, so try to focus on the positive instead of the negative. It will only eat you up in the long run. Also, you can choose to forgive her, but acceptance is something that you just come to one day. I pray that this happens for you two in time, but you can't will such a thing to happen.

She doesn't need birth control OP has had a vasectomy. Her BC was for her other man.

I think most want the full truth no matter what but that's up to OP.

IMO the truth fixes a lot of things. Burying your head in the sand in these situations not know what you need to know won't get you much.

Bahama, I hate to say this, but I see a LOT of rug sweeping here. You WANT this to be all better -- I get that.

Your wife crying and saying she's sorry isn't remorse. She's sad she got caught. You are plan B -- she knows how much it will cost her if you D.

"She's also said that the sex with her AP was nothing she felt good doing. She wasn't in love with him."

Typical cheater speak.

Sorry, I just don't see that she is actually remorseful here. I don't see that she's been doing the real work to resolve this for YOU.

" It scares me to think of throwing away 14 years of good times together, rip apart a family and hurt my kids, because of a short term affair."

YOU are not throwing away anything. SHE did that all by herself. Don't let her convince you that ANY of this was your fault. The affair is 100% on HER. If she was unhappy, she should have divorced you instead of taking the immoral actions she did. I think you really DON'T know her at all -- she is not who you think she is. She has SHOWN you who she really is...

[This message edited by jlg05 at 6:01 PM, March 10th (Sunday)]

Bahama- I'm relatively new here. I have been following your thread. I assume you got the vasectomy as part of discussion with your wife about her wanting to get off bc and the two of you avoiding pregnancy. Tomorrow will be two weeks since DDay. I guess my question is why is she still on bc? I know she gave you an excuse about PMS cramps and acne. Does she get acne. There are 20 different meds to be prescribed for acne and pms cramps. If she wanted to get off bc a couple of years ago. Then she should have ended the bc at dday. My concern here is that this A might not be over. At least emotionally. I know you have explained away a lot of her actions surrounding dday. But this one stings, and I think you and ladybugman need to be staying in closer contact to ensure NC has been maintained. She does have the ability to make calls, and log into another throwaway email account at work. So does he unless you somehow have that hacked. I just think both WS's are to lockstep in this recovery. I know this is hard but I think you need to better understand the depth of this affair both EA and PA. Do you really think at this point the sex was just sex and their was no emotional attachment. You spoke early on about how intimate their conversations were and how they were more intimate than you ever had with her. I know she is sick, but before you go to far here its time you grasp the extent of the affair. Also, you made comments about new sex acts, etc. Are you really going to be able to go through this process and not know the truth. There is worse things than her being more sexually liberated with him than you. After all they are in lala land, it is kind of to be expected. I recommend finding out and then reclaiming them for yourself, if you chose to stay. MHO. Also, you really need to understand her sadness, if she is crying for the loss of AP, you should know. Its been 2 weeks and you haven't kicked her out yet. Good luck

I think your marriage can survive when you get ALL on the truth. There are couples who manage and move on.

I don’t even see this as rug sweeping. I see it as you trying to get all the information you need. I see it as you being a kind, loving spouse and father.

Don’t make decisions you might regret. Time is on your side.

I think the affair was ridiculous. There was nothing wrong with your marriage and as far I can tell there was nothing wrong with his. These were two people who gave themselves permission to act like idiots and look at the damage they have done. If you and the other betrayed spouse can manage to get these two lunatics to grow up there might be a real good outcome.

Bahama, you've had people say you don't need to know details. Be careful about what you ask because you might not like the answer.

Everyone is different. Apparently some don't want to know anything more than the WS cheated. Not even when it started, finished, how many times, etc. That's not me. I wanted to know it all. I feel not wanting the harsh, dirty details so you can "live" with it is rugsweeping. I also think there's a strong possibility that there will be further setbacks in the future as something new gets leaked, TT'd or exposed some other way.

I wouldn't ever be satisfied without any details. Not knowing what I don't know would have me wondering what I didn't know. I do feel that you should have as much information as possible to make major decisions. Deciding to R or D is a major life decision, IMO.

Like I said, it seems everyone is different and some don't want to know much. I couldn't live with that. I think it seems most (maybe showing my bias) want to know more. Perhaps more BM want to more than BW but there's lot's of women who want it all, too.

JMO. YMMV. It is your decision.

BS ONLY

[This message edited by SI Staff at 7:26 PM, October 14th (Monday)]