SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I'm a fucking wreck today. I had a good day yesterday and now I just feel overly anxious and almost in a panic. I spent a good chunk of time writing my thoughts down and perhaps I just did too much. I feel overwhelmed by the task of seeking all the answers and details. It fills me with dread yet I also feel it needs to happen. It's hard to be home alone with too much time on my hands. My mind is running amuck.

My wife told me today in a text conversation that "I'm not sure what to do. Feeling helpless. Like I'm just hanging on for the ride and hoping it turns out ok." I think she feels at the mercy of the situation and to me. This answer didn't jive with me though. She needs to kick it up a level on helping repair the damage she's done.

I need to get off here for the rest of the day. Too much to process and think about. I appreciate it all, but need to focus back on me.

One day at a time, one moment at a time.

I'm going to be extremely direct here:

Your WW explaining her use of birth control while in a sexual affair AFTER you have had a vasectomy as being for acne etc. is a bullshit lie and a huge betrayal in my book.

You should not accept it and frankly, nobody here should be lending any credibility to that bullshit lie.

Your WW telling you that she discovered her desire for this new sex act due to independent masturbation, or that she liked it all along but didn't think you would dig it is also a bullshit lie.

***

If she owes you anything, she owes you complete honesty, and you are not getting honest answers.

So Bahama, I guess the question is are you willing to allow her to continue to pile on lies?

Only you can answer that.

But if you aren't, just look her directly in the eyes and say: "You're lying. Tell me the truth right now."

And honestly, that approach will carry a lot more weight if you are willing to deliver some actual consequences to her.

[This message edited by faithfulman at 7:11 PM, March 10th (Sunday)]

She was breaking No Contact up until like a week ago. You are way beyond rushing things and with all die respect you need to spend a few days accepting that you’re going to feel decimated. You should be. You’re human.

The compass that you are aligning yourself with, again with all due respect, is one that you are wish casting out there.

Also - stop worrying how she is feeling. For now, that does not matter. If you want to help her you’ll never be able to until you help yourself. Right now you are not helping yourself.

We are here to support you!

The need to known and the fear of knowing what your WW has done with her AP is daunting. You can ask her to write you 2 time lines. One, a PG version of what the actual acts were. You still want all of the emotions she was feeling. What she was thinking. What she choose to do over being with her family. And 2, the XXX version. All the gory details of their tryst. What positions, orgasms, how many times they did per meeting. Conversations of feelings, etc. Nothing held back.

You can always read the PG version first to gain better perspective of the A. Then if you still feel the need to know the dirty details, read the XXX version.

Your WW explaining her use of birth control while in a sexual affair AFTER you have had a vasectomy as being for acne etc. is a bullshit lie and a huge betrayal in my book.

I agree with Faithfulman, the lies need to stop. At this point there appears to be a lot of stuff that doesn't add up.

"I'm not sure what to do. Feeling helpless. Like I'm just hanging on for the ride and hoping it turns out ok."

You are at the very beginning of this thing. I'm concerned she isn't willing to put the work in if she is having second thoughts. Good luck

You are co-dependent. Worried about how she’s feeling etc. You’re the victim here, dude. Not her. You need to focus on yourself. You could have a breakdown in the next few weeks and months if you don’t stop and take a breather and look after YOU. Just a few things I’d like to point out to you:

Birth control thing is a huge red flag. For two years after you’ve had a vasectomy? Hmmmm... This affair could have been going on for much longer than you think and or she’s had other affairs you don’t know about.

She’s acting like she’s the victim. This is not remorse. It’s all about poor her. How about YOU?

There will be TT for a long time. Expect this. You will be on edge about this. Take some medication if you need to. To calm yourself down. I’m reading your posts and I’m feeling you want to fix this urgently. This cannot be “fixed” immediately. It will take months and realistically years. Pace yourself. It’s all about her actions, not her words. Look out with what she does. How she makes you feel safe. How she talks about what she did to you. How she damaged the respect you had for her. If she doesn’t demonstrate true remorse your marriage is well and truly over. A lot of the times true remorse takes many weeks, even months, because WS have their head so far up their ass they can’t see it from another perspective.

“ She admitted to me that she didn’t want to have his child and goton birth control to make sure.”

That doesn’t sound like a lie to me. But booyah nailed it that they were having unprotected sex, which potentially put your health at risk.

I think Cooley2here’s last post perfectly summed up the situation. Take a step back. This is all raw and fresh and can be overwhelming. Get into IC if you can. As you step back you will figure out what you need to know from your WW. She must be forthcoming with honest answers. TT and gaslighting will just make matters worse. Good luck.

My advice to you at this point is to stop trying to rush things. You will probably be on a roller coaster of emotions for quite some time. Relax and experience the ride. Use a soft version of the 180 to create space for yourself. Your purpose is to find your heart's truth. That won't happen in weeks, or months. Maybe years.

The birth control is further evidence of the extent to which she invested energy and planning into fostering the sexual affair with the asshole. She was really deep in it. There is almost no way that she is experiencing remorse toward you yet. I say that because you keep using that word to describe what you see/feel in/from her, but to me that sounds like hopium, like you're externalizing what you wish to see in her rather than what you actually see.

The new sex act, it is almost certain that's something she learned from the asshole.

I've not seen a post from you where you mention that she has completed or even begun a detailed timeline for you. How's that going?

My wife told me today in a text conversation that "I'm not sure what to do. Feeling helpless. Like I'm just hanging on for the ride and hoping it turns out ok." I think she feels at the mercy of the situation and to me. This answer didn't jive with me though. She needs to kick it up a level on helping repair the damage she's done.

This is somewhat alarming. I think she needs to show to you that she will move heaven and earth to get your marriage back on track. It seems to me that she is devastated by the impact the affair has had on her future life and is waiting for you to somehow fix it.

Contrast this to the planning that went into the affair:

The third was a photo of a "decision tree" that had been sketched out on paper and was being held by the AP. The drawing was labeled "The Affair" and went through the thought process of where they were taking it. It started with are we going to leave our spouses and become a couple and then yes/no'd down to end it with various options to what degree.

The birth control is further evidence of the extent to which she invested energy and planning into fostering the sexual affair with the asshole. She was really deep in it.

Not to mention the unremitting increase in training time, the coordinated denials to the OBS, the refusal to go NC, the visit to the lawyer before you had even organised that yourself etc etc.

[This message edited by SorrowfulMoon at 9:04 PM, March 10th (Sunday)]

"She spontaneously began crying about how she felt that I might be happier and this whole situation might be better for me if she just wasn't here anymore. She cried as she showed remorse for how bad she has hurt me and our family"

"I'm not sure what to do. Feeling helpless. Like I'm just hanging on for the ride and hoping it turns out ok."

It's been what 2 -3 weeks? You are both stunned but she should have had the idea that they could get caught, so she should have had a tiny little "what if I get caught" thought in her head. She is still trying to figure out how she got here and what she wants to do, but is doesn't sound like she has much interest in pitching in other than crying and apologizing. And you are handling things very carefully, with a lot more concern about her than she had about you.

During the affair she was excellent at time management, planning the rendezvous and keeping it from you, she worked on the decision tree and though enough ahead to go on BC so they could have unprotected sex. So when she wants to do something, she can put effort in to it.

Since she chose to have the affair she was somewhat ambivalent about the M - and she may be still ambivalent about fixing it.

If you tke the leadm she may follow, but for how long?

Of course they had unprotected sex, that's why she went on BC, plus she knew if she got pregnant there was no way she could say to Bahama that he was the dad, she kept playing russian roulette with Bahama's health, that's why I keep asking Bahama if he has demanded she gets tested for STDs, so far he has not responded, I guess the answer is most likely NO.

Bahama you said you don't think her vomiting had to do with pregnancy because she got on birth control (about 91% effective so I would still demand a pregnancy test), however you have not addressed the STD tests, have you demanded she gets tested ? if not, why ?

I would demand proof of exactly when she got on BC (prescription/receipts), just to see if it matches her timeline and to see if it precedes the A, if so and she started BC shortly after your vasectomy, it means she was probably planning to cheat or this may not be her first rodeo, don't believe the acne bullshit for a second there are other more effective methods to deal with that, she did this to avoid getting knocked up, I would ask her if they used protection at the beginning of the A, and also, besides the devastation she knew the A would cause (she admitted she knew she would get caught) if she ever considered the fact she was putting your health at risk.

Bahama,

Your emotions are still in a state of flux, so it is normal that you seem to be experiencing conflicting emotions and thoughts.

You want to ask questions, but are afraid of the answers. You want to hug her, yet repulsed by her. You are having incredible sex with her, but she betrayed you by having another man in her. You want to trust her, but also feel the need to check up on her.

These internal conflicts will stay with you for a while. What can you do about it? One way is to learn more. Internal conflicts can happen because the person does not know the answers, and has to imagine the situation, but that imagination can go wild.

If you are not ready for some of the answers, write down the questions, and get your WW to write down the answers in great detail. Then put the answers in an envelope for you to read when you think you are ready. This could give you peace of mind that there are answers to your questions, and they are 'fresh' answers (i.e. the WW would not be able to say 'I cannot remember').

Split the Herculean task into smaller tasks, so that the end result you are aiming for is achievable. Be it that you R or D is your choice, but make the choice when you are informed, and not guessing.

your a stellar guy Bahama. don't doubt that. to even offer her the chance of reconciliation. all things considered, is a truly amazing possible gift on your part. most guys wouldn't to be honest (me included - or i would at least have to revenge massively to neutralise the issue - just me). She really needs to understand this.

are u both in IC? really think it would benefit you both. have you both seen your doctors? you both seem to be depressed. i really think you both need professional help.

She doesn't know what to do, Bahama. "How to Help My Spouse Heal From My Affair" by Linda J. McDonald.

My WW said the same thing. She said she knew what to do but was frozen and didn't do it. She sat there and watched knowing she should be doing something but didn't. We're separated and I'm divorcing her.

It's up to her to carry her own water. Don't carry it for her.

yep, she checked out completely of the marriage. that's the ultra painful truth. she now wants to check back in. said she would do anything. More than anything she needs to show some FIGHT for you!: 'I did a terrible, terrible thing but fuck me im going to show you how much i want to be with you, every day, even if its ultimately unsuccessful, im going to damn well give it everything'.

Your good progress may be shifting expectations too quickly for both you and her. Healing is a process with ups, downs and sideways. I think you should both continue to acknowledge that fact regularly. That bad moments and bad days are to be expected, not worried about that it means you are failing.

Many here seem to see your W sharing her helplessness and feeling lost as only a negative. I don't see it that way. She is telling you her feelings in a constructive way. This is exactly what was not happening leading up to the A and during it. You two have reopened communication at a more intimate level than you've had probably for a long time and all of that is very positive.

Yes, it would be better if she had no ups and downs and could focus all of her energy on healing you, her and the relationship. But that is not realistic. She is going to be going through her ups and downs along with you and the fact that she is sharing some of that will help you understand when you see behaviors or don't see behaviors that you are expecting. I also think that her job adds to the tension. Working in an ER is a very stressful environment and it consumes an enormous amount of physical and emotional energy for most people. If you combine that stress with the stress she created in the marriage, it is really significant. She is also probably not exercising and that is an additional stressor for someone who is used to it.

So a lot of people here are going to look at what I just wrote and think I'm defending her. Obviously, she created this problem. But Bahama, you want to move forward with the relationship if it's at all possible from everything you've written. So we have to be realistic about what that looks like on her part as well as yours.

She is asking for more Direction on what to do. Again, it would be nice if she could develop all the plans and remember everything she has read to help you heal. But is that realistic? I think to the extent that you are capable, you should be open to reinforcing your needs and helping her understand what will help you to move forward. Most people need to hear and read things multiple times before they truly grasp it so she is going to need reinforcements on role. And the ER context comes up again here for me. People who work in an ER have drilled into their brain a series of things you do when the patient is triaged. You identify the problem and then there is a pathway to fixing it that you act on immediately. Many of the reactions are like a cookbook, they are actually pretty straightforward once you understand what to do. Your wife is probably used to this Dynamic and now she finds herself in a dynamic, of course of her own creating, but one that it is unclear how to solve it exactly. It is emotional, not physical and the Dynamics are evolving an unfamiliar. Her feeling like she doesn't know what to do and that she is helpless does not necessarily translate to a lack of commitment on her part.

You have gotten many comments here that reinforce being wary of a WS. I do think you should take some of these to heart. I also have a bit of a different perspective than some of the people here. Or at least how some of the people come across in their comments. Yes, it is still early days and you do need to take care of yourself. You also need to be vigilant to make sure she is doing her individual work that will be necessary for a strong reconciliation. But forgiveness and wanting to reconcile is a good, not bad. She screwed up incredibly but people get through this if they're both committed. Bahama, you seem to want to be committed at this point. It is too early to say yes, this is all going to work out. But it is not too early to tell yourself I want this to work out... as long as she is willing to commit to the right behaviors. Sometimes I feel that message gets lost on this forum due to the earnestness of people trying to help others ensure they are getting out of infidelity completely.

And one last comment about the birth control. I am sure that's a kick in the gut because it's premeditated. But you already knew because it wasn't a ONS, that there was some premeditation. It might be moderated a little bit by the fact that she can get the birth control so easily, it doesn't require a separate trip to the doctor for her. And it is true that the pill is prescribed for women for all sorts of reasons. But I 100% agree that it is a trigger that is unnecessary to live with at this point in time. I would ask her to stop and I would also share with her that this is the type of thing she should think about proactively. It might be a good example for her to understand that she told you about the birth control and should have just automatically said I've stopped taking it and I've thrown them away. This example might help her understand how taking proactive steps to avoid triggers is a loving response that will help you heal.

It may feel discouraging to have to actually tell her these things but these examples might provide her the direction she is looking for to help the two of you move forward.

Bahama

Some random thoughts about your situation:

Reconciliation is possible. This site is proof of it. But it’s a tough and hard thing to do. It requires total commitment and a very clear decision from both parties that you are dedicating the REST of your time together to creating the BEST relationship possible. It goes way beyond reconciling from the affair.

I venture that at least a third of those that post here and claim to be in reconciliation aren’t. True R is where you are unafraid to mention ANYTHING to your spouse and your spouse is willing to discuss the issue and reach a resolution you are both content with and are both 100% willing to see through. It hasn’t got anything to do with control, punishment, revenge but everything to do with communications, acceptance, goals and togetherness.

Of course, right now – this shortly after the decision to R – you two are nowhere near it. But you probably – like 99% of those that decide to reconcile – thought that simply deciding to R would get you half way there.

I have often used this comparison (old-timers would maybe say too often…):

Imagine you live a content but totally unhealthy lifestyle. You eat deep-fried for all meals, don’t exercise, drink coffee by the gallons, drink too much alcohol, live paycheck to paycheck, smoke… Then one day while arguing with your boss about a missed deadline you have a cardiac arrest…

Wake up in ER where you are sternly told that if you don’t make changes you are doomed for a repeat.

This is where your marriage is. Now – I’m not assigning ANY blame to you for your WW decision to cheat. But your marriage might have been unhealthy, if not for any other reason that your wife was unhealthy in the marriage.

You decide to change your life. You get a lecture on nutrition and buy all the healthy-eating books. You contact a personal trainer, sign up to a gym and go buy all the quick-dry clothes and the go-faster sneakers. You listen to the Dave Ramsey podcast to organize your finances and get the best time-management app for your phone.

All of this is the same as DECIDING to reconcile.

First time you eat baked cauliflower with soya cheese… You are going to miss deep-fried chicken. That glass of water won’t tickle your throat like a Dr. Pepper… After that first 3 mile run you won’t be feeling healthy… That gym-membership card won’t improve your health just waiting in your wallet… You will feel pain when you fight the urge for a smoke… Those sneakers don’t burn calories in the closet… That personal trainer isn’t doing the exercise for you…

Heck… even if you do stick to a program then the results won’t be coming in too early. That marathon you wanted to run? Won’t make it for maybe the first 2 years. Benching 200 might take you a year. You might relapse couple of times on the smoking…

It’s small, minor improvements over a very long period.

Add to the equation that your wife must be along too. If she’s sneaking French-fries on her plate while you are having boiled fish with carrots, or if she sits down at a bench with a Marlboro and a Mimosa and waits for you to run the laps…

If you stick to the program, then 2-3-4 years down the line you might reflect on your results. You might realize you are in better shape – physically and mentally – than ever before. You might also realize that you can still make improvements. Your wants and urges to go back to your old lifestyle will be less, weaker and fewer.

This is reconciliation in a nutshell. It’s a long-term process of CHANGE for improvement. Just like the cardiac arrest was the catalyst for change in the above, the affair is the catalyst for change in the marriage. But… just like you could have decided to change your life WITHOUT the cardiac arrest, so could you have based your marriage on better grounds.

The sex issue:

Bahama – by the time your WW could decide if the A sex was better or if she should base her affair on the sex… It was too late. It’s like a bank-robber suggesting it wasn’t a robbery since he only got 1k bucks out of it rather than the expected 10k. She DID NOT have the affair because the sex was better. She would NOT have quit had OM had ED or not preformed or been a selfish lover. By the time of first physical contact it was too late – it was an affair. Same applies to any comparison to the OM – by the time your wife had the basis to build a comparison it was too late.

I personally think infidelity is NEVER about the sex. It’s all about POWER. Undeniably power is a great aphrodisiac, but I think the driving force is the sense of I CAN, I have the POWER to pull this woman, I have the power to have this man come crawling back for more, I have the power to keep this hidden from my spouse…

It’s basic human nature to try to justify our mistakes. It’s a lot easier to claim she had an affair because of sexual urges and kept going back because the sex was good, rather than admit she had an affair because she reacted wrongly to issues related to her insecurities and/or how she felt about herself.

BC for acne… No. She took BC for BC. Once again: It’s easier to justify BC as acne prevention than as birth-control due to having unprotected sex with her lover. IMHO it would be better for both of you to reach that understanding and accept it. A basic requirement for reconciliation is an acceptance of FACTS.

Finally Bahama: Some posters have mentioned the SAHD aspect. I have always seen a couple as ONE. It’s not her income or her house bought from the proceeds of her income. Its JOINT income gained by the decision on how the MARRIAGE arranges time and tasks. Part of R IMHO is clearing the financial aspects in a marriage. I would use the time ahead to make your position as clear as possible: Who is the beneficiary of her life-insurance, whose names are on the property deeds, whose names are on the bank accounts… It’s not as if you are doing this to scare her into remaining married – it’s simply one very common problem-factor to a marriage that is cleared.

"I'm not sure what to do. Feeling helpless. Like I'm just hanging on for the ride and hoping it turns out ok"

Her main job right now is to just stand in the storm. To ride this out, being the person she should have been all along.

It is going to take time to see if she is just"holding her breath" for a while and will eventually sag back into old behavior, or actually show change and growth. When she realizes this is the new normal and accepts it, and keeps plowing forward, then you'll know there's a chance