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I Can Relate :
Long Term Affairs Part 39

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Chaos ( member #61031) posted at 11:31 PM on Thursday, May 25th, 2023

Have any of you been given these reasons?

In the beginning I was given a litany of dumb ass excuses that sounded like a kid makes when getting caught with his hand in the cookie jar or a teen getting caught sneaking in after curfew.


How are they valid/not valid reasons?

My dad used to say things were like tying your milk up with a rope. When I asked how that made any sense he replied "one dumb ass excuse is just as good as the next" It kind of like that.

How do I make sense of them?

You don't. You recognize them for the bullshit that they are. And it is pathetic.

Remember - just because they try to dish out the bullshit - you are under no obligation to take it.

BS-me/WH-4.5yrLTA Married 2+ decades - Children (1 still at home) Multiple DDays w/same AP until I told OBS 2018 Cease & Desist sent spring 2021"Hello–My name is Chaos–You f***ed my husband-Prepare to Die!"

posts: 3802   ·   registered: Oct. 13th, 2017   ·   location: East coast
id 8792536
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NoThanksForTheMemories ( member #83278) posted at 4:58 PM on Tuesday, May 30th, 2023

My WS gave his heart, body, and mind to someone else for nearly 3 years. I feel like, with enough time and remorse from him, I can get past a lot of the other bad stuff - the lies, the emotional and sexual neglect, the deceptions - but I slam up against the fact that he loved this other woman and had a powerful, long lasting relationship with her (he says he thinks of her like an ex-girlfriend now, which doesn't help me at all).

Have any of you gotten past this? If so, what helped you do so?

My WS is asking me to look forward at where I want us to be rather than backward at what he's done. Our MC likes this idea, and she's asking me to write about what's blocking me so we can work through it. I'm curious if any of have faced a similar block and what (if anything) has helped you.

WH had a 3 yr EA+PA. Dday1 Nov '22. Dday4 Sep '23. 30 years together. Staying for the teenager. Allowing space for R without commitment.

posts: 117   ·   registered: May. 1st, 2023
id 8793092
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Oldwounds ( member #54486) posted at 9:33 PM on Tuesday, May 30th, 2023

My WS is asking me to look forward at where I want us to be rather than backward at what he's done.

It's something that is an eventual goal, if you decide to stay.

However, it took me at least TWO years to feel like I had enough information, to feel like I had seen enough work from my spouse in order to make an informed choice to LOOK FORWARD.

Every WS on the planet wants us to have INSTANT amnesia. It sure makes their work easier if we just look forward.

It sure doesn't sound healthy to me that your WS calls his AP his ex-girlfriend. It's sounds like zero empathy.

When he frames it like that, when do you get to add a boyfriend to the M?

Tell your MC only the hurt person in this deal, the one suffering emotional trauma (aka YOU) -- gets to decide how long it takes to process the pain.

You want a plan to to look forward, how is your WS working to be a safe partner? Why was the validation needed outside of the M?

When and if you feel SAFE, then you can think about a future with someone who hurt you so horribly.

Married 36+ years, together 41+ years
Two awesome adult sons.
Dday 6/16 4-year LTA Survived.
M Restored
"It is better to conquer our grief than to deceive it." — Seneca

posts: 4721   ·   registered: Aug. 4th, 2016   ·   location: Home.
id 8793153
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OnTheOtherSideOfHell ( member #82983) posted at 11:27 PM on Tuesday, May 30th, 2023

NTFTM,
I agree with Old Wounds. Your husband describing the intruder as an "ex" would be hard to take. I got past all my husband’s bullshit because he claims (evidence suggests he is telling the truth) that he wasn’t in love with her ever and that he recognized from the beginning it was all just some alternative world full of fantasy, no responsibilities, no mortgage, no kids…. Etc. just small moments of time where he could be Superman and fawned over. 🙄 He was so delusional that he somehow had convinced himself that he wasn’t as bad as real cheating a-holes, because there was no reality to it for him. He said it was like writing a book and creating his character to be whatever he wanted in the moment. Then when he left she was just an annoyance demanding more of his time. I think it might help you to dive deeper into what she truly meant to your husband and decide from there if it’s a deal breaker or not. Him and your counselor thinking y’all should just build from
Where you are now wouldn’t have worked for me. For me, I had to figure out what SHE was vs what I was to decide if there was anything worth saving. Had she been a great love at all, I don’t think I’d have agreed to attempt reconciliation. But, who knows. 🤷‍♀️ as we have all learned, no one knows what they will do until they are in the situation. I do know the first two years of recovery was me constantly asking questions and searching for ways to understand the nature of their bullshit (can’t call it a relationship) and more so what she meant to him. Turns out, not much at all.

posts: 205   ·   registered: Feb. 28th, 2023   ·   location: SW USA
id 8793169
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NoThanksForTheMemories ( member #83278) posted at 9:08 PM on Wednesday, May 31st, 2023

To be fair, WS doesn't refer to her as an ex-girlfriend, but when we were arguing about how he thinks about her, he said he wishes her a good life, as he would with his actual ex-girlfriends. My preference is that he is indifferent to her fate, but I can't control his feelings. It's only been 4 months since he went full NC, so I expect that it's going to take him a lot more time to full let go.

At this point, though, *I* feel like calling the AP his ex-girlfriend. I think that's a fair description and highlights just how shitty his behavior was. He considered divorcing me for her. He believed he loved her. It's a bitter pill, and I'm mainly trying to work things out because a) our kid is just coming out of some mental health issues, and b) I'm old enough that I don't want to start over.

Our MC is digging into his motivations and justifications in parallel, so she doesn't discount the past or my pain, but at the same time, she doesn't want me dwelling in the past either - which I agree isn't healthy. I am not handling my trauma well, and that's something I'm working on with my own therapist.

OldWounds, thank you for sharing your experience. I figure it'll be at least 2 years, maybe longer, before I can truly put some of this behind me. Of course, that depends on what happens during those 2 years! WS is doing his best while struggling with stressors outside our marriage (not related to the affair), and sometimes that best isn't enough for me. Other times it is.

WH had a 3 yr EA+PA. Dday1 Nov '22. Dday4 Sep '23. 30 years together. Staying for the teenager. Allowing space for R without commitment.

posts: 117   ·   registered: May. 1st, 2023
id 8793279
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Oldwounds ( member #54486) posted at 5:02 PM on Thursday, June 1st, 2023

WS is doing his best while struggling with stressors outside our marriage (not related to the affair), and sometimes that best isn't enough for me.

This is good. Raise the bar on his best -- he broke it, he HAS to take the lead to fix it. As I told my wife, I asked her to imagine if she spent HALF the energy on our M as she did the A, we would be great. Focus on what IS best for you.

I still think that NOT living in the past is absolutely the END goal, you still have a lot of healing to do.

Heal at your pace, not FOR your WH, not for the MC -- too many members have shown some sad results when they try to rush back to 'normal' for the sake of the M.

There is nothing more selfish than an A.

Your turn to make life about YOU for a while.

Only jump back in, if and when you do so from a position of strength -- strength you're only just rebuilding right now.

Married 36+ years, together 41+ years
Two awesome adult sons.
Dday 6/16 4-year LTA Survived.
M Restored
"It is better to conquer our grief than to deceive it." — Seneca

posts: 4721   ·   registered: Aug. 4th, 2016   ·   location: Home.
id 8793392
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Squish ( member #79546) posted at 9:09 PM on Thursday, June 1st, 2023

So close to the day almost two years ago when my life was turned upside down and destroyed. My heart hurts and as much as prefer that I know. I just wish I was not going through this. crying

posts: 123   ·   registered: Nov. 1st, 2021
id 8793436
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NoThanksForTheMemories ( member #83278) posted at 4:12 PM on Saturday, June 3rd, 2023

Sending hugs, Squish. I haven't hit a dday anniversary yet so I can only imagine how hard it's going to be.

WH had a 3 yr EA+PA. Dday1 Nov '22. Dday4 Sep '23. 30 years together. Staying for the teenager. Allowing space for R without commitment.

posts: 117   ·   registered: May. 1st, 2023
id 8793763
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Squish ( member #79546) posted at 5:24 PM on Saturday, June 3rd, 2023

NoThanksForTheMemories Thank you. I just wish it would go away. Ha!

I like your name by the way.

posts: 123   ·   registered: Nov. 1st, 2021
id 8793766
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NoThanksForTheMemories ( member #83278) posted at 5:58 PM on Tuesday, June 6th, 2023

I like your name by the way.

Haha, thanks.

I wish we could wave a magic wand to reverse time and make it all go away, too. So hard!

Lately, I've been feeling like I barely know this person I'm married to, even though he claims to still "be himself." After 3 years of cheating and lying, I don't think either of us is who we were before this all started. The affair was such a shock that part of me thinks he's capable of anything now. He feels hurt when I say that, though, like I'm insulting his character? And I'm like, how could I not feel that way after everything he did? I guess it's part of his need to feel like he's still fundamentally a good person, which he might be, but it's all too fresh for me to believe it.

WH had a 3 yr EA+PA. Dday1 Nov '22. Dday4 Sep '23. 30 years together. Staying for the teenager. Allowing space for R without commitment.

posts: 117   ·   registered: May. 1st, 2023
id 8794162
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Vocalion ( member #82921) posted at 7:36 PM on Tuesday, June 6th, 2023

NoThanksForTheMemories...I too have often expressed the futile wish that we both, WW and myself, could return to some idyllic point early on in our marriage when we were bonding as a couple and the idea that one of us would seek validation in an extramarital affair seemed ludicrous if not outright preposterous, but then if wishes were horses, beggars would ride as the saying goes. After DDay it became clear that even when a BS is totally unsware, or has only some irritating suspicions that something not quite right is going on, it nevertheless degrades and changes the dynamic of the marriage. My WW's affair ended when her physician AP moved away clear across the country for a year to undrrgo further surgical training and when he returned to California he attempted to restart the affair, but my WW said NO. She had in the meantime realized how she had been used, albeit as a willing accomplice, by a slightly older unscrupulous married man who considered nurses under his supervision as an entitlement and some key nd of extra perk for being on call at the hospital. My WW never told me way back in 1974 but she became despondent and deeply ashamed by what she had done and sought psychiatric help to understand what had permitted her to break her vows and surrender up the core values she believed in. I knew she wss seeing a psychiatrist but I had no.idea that this was the reason. She wss all a husband could ever hope for, except for holding ight to her sevret.

Propter infidelitatem uxoris meae ,vir amplius quod eram, non sum.

posts: 256   ·   registered: Feb. 22nd, 2023   ·   location: San Diego
id 8794178
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Squish ( member #79546) posted at 9:21 PM on Tuesday, June 6th, 2023

No thanks for the memories- my ws has a need to still feel like he is a good person. And that he may be. To everyone but those he is supposed to love the most. He treated me awfully while in the lta. 3 years is so very long. I honestly can’t remember where is started and our m ended. But it did, the minute he thought of the stupid ap.

posts: 123   ·   registered: Nov. 1st, 2021
id 8794189
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NoThanksForTheMemories ( member #83278) posted at 12:32 AM on Wednesday, June 7th, 2023

After DDay it became clear that even when a BS is totally unsware, or has only some irritating suspicions that something not quite right is going on, it nevertheless degrades and changes the dynamic of the marriage.

I was plenty aware that our marriage was dead, and I kept having talks with WS about it, but he gaslit me big time.

3 years is so very long. I honestly can’t remember where is started and our m ended. But it did, the minute he thought of the stupid ap.

Yup, 100% agree with this, Squish. I feel the same way. He didn't legally divorce me, but he left the marriage in spirit (and in many ways body, too).

WH had a 3 yr EA+PA. Dday1 Nov '22. Dday4 Sep '23. 30 years together. Staying for the teenager. Allowing space for R without commitment.

posts: 117   ·   registered: May. 1st, 2023
id 8794204
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Squish ( member #79546) posted at 1:34 AM on Thursday, June 8th, 2023

Nothanksforthememories- there wasn’t anything that was kept our, kept Sacred. It breaks my heart that this is the fact because it was all compartmentalized but that doesn’t help me feel like we were special in some way. It’s all available. Nothing is just ours now.

Why don’t ws understand this?

posts: 123   ·   registered: Nov. 1st, 2021
id 8794334
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Booney ( new member #80566) posted at 1:03 PM on Sunday, June 11th, 2023

but I slam up against the fact that he loved this other woman and had a powerful, long lasting relationship with her (he says he thinks of her like an ex-girlfriend now, which doesn't help me at all). Have any of you gotten past this? If so, what helped you do so?

NTFTM, I don't have an answer to this one but would also like to know what helped other people. My WS was in a LTF for 4+ years. He would say he was acting, playing a part, knew he didn't really love her, always loved me, wanted the adoration and feeling wanted so much etc. But at the end of the day he adored this woman and chucked being a good and faithful husband and dad for good times with her. Their's was a powerful relationship because he broke off and went back 8 times.
If there is anyone out there that can offer something on how to manage being blindsided by this sort of thing, I'd love to hear it.

Me: BW58yrs. WH56yrs.DDay:6th April 2020. He ended the A & told me after.He&I 2gether since 1988. Married 1994. Fuckup A started Dec 2015. The day he betrayed me is the day our marriage ended in my eyes. In R. He’s the worst and the best thing in my life

posts: 17   ·   registered: Aug. 15th, 2022   ·   location: Scotland
id 8794820
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OnTheOtherSideOfHell ( member #82983) posted at 2:41 PM on Sunday, June 11th, 2023

Booney,

I wouldn’t think of the break ups and make ups as evidence to any real feelings. My husband characterizes the nature of his much longer affair and feelings for the AP much the same as yours does. As for the continually restarting of the bullshit, my husband claims he was simply a selfish coward. It was easier to "keep her happy" than to come clean. He knew it would never end without her singing like a canary so he continued to avoid dropping the messy, painful bomb he let off in his real life. How so kind of him. 🙄🤮I still think "so nice of you to fuXX her into silence to save my feelings .🙄 At least he finally admitted it was actually for his own preservation. He was a completely self centered, cowardly ass for a long time.

posts: 205   ·   registered: Feb. 28th, 2023   ·   location: SW USA
id 8794827
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TheEnd ( member #72213) posted at 12:03 AM on Monday, June 12th, 2023

Lately, I've been feeling like I barely know this person I'm married to, even though he claims to still "be himself."

Feeling like you barely know him is not only normal but smart. This man burned your world to the ground. He is not who you thought he was. That's just reality.

I'll always believe people can change for good but for him to be "hurt" by your words is, well, a load of shit. He's either still compartmentalizing (oh that guy wasn't really me) or he hasn't quite yet reached full accountability (I did the most horrible thing I could do to my wife/family. Who the fuck am I? What is wrong with me?).

To me, him holding on to some mythical husband figure who was mostly good but just had this one tiny little problem of total self destruction (with you and your family as collateral damage) is hogwash.

He needs to take a good long look at the ugly, be honest about who he really is and then integrate the good and the bad to start building himself to be the man he wants to be.

Spoiler alert: as you reach acceptance, R or D, your view of him will change. Some good and some just realistic (which might have some ugly in it). He will never look the same to you. You will see him much more clearly. Then you can choose him again or some folks find, the new view means a loss of love. It takes time to tell.

[This message edited by TheEnd at 12:05 AM, Monday, June 12th]

posts: 624   ·   registered: Dec. 3rd, 2019
id 8794868
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NoThanksForTheMemories ( member #83278) posted at 2:03 AM on Tuesday, June 13th, 2023

Spoiler alert: as you reach acceptance, R or D, your view of him will change. Some good and some just realistic (which might have some ugly in it). He will never look the same to you. You will see him much more clearly. Then you can choose him again or some folks find, the new view means a loss of love. It takes time to tell.

Good insight! I'm starting to see this in my thoughts - behaviors I could dismiss or overlook before that I now see in a very different light. What's so ironic is that he (and so many WS's) are getting affirmation from their APs to feel good about themselves, and there's no way for me to give that to him now. Maybe one day he will actually change to the point where I admire him again. For now, I'm trying to figure out how to love him, flaws and all.

WH had a 3 yr EA+PA. Dday1 Nov '22. Dday4 Sep '23. 30 years together. Staying for the teenager. Allowing space for R without commitment.

posts: 117   ·   registered: May. 1st, 2023
id 8795015
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TheEnd ( member #72213) posted at 4:47 PM on Tuesday, June 13th, 2023

Yes, I completely get it.

It took me a long time to realize that my respect was gone. We are so flooded with pain and fear it takes some time to parse out ALL the feels, identify them and then deal with them. At least, it took me a long time.

Losing respect for him was/is one of the harder things for me. Right up there with trust. Perhaps worse because if I don't respect him, why would I ever bother to try and trust him again.

IDK the loss of respect did some serious damage.

posts: 624   ·   registered: Dec. 3rd, 2019
id 8795063
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trynhard ( member #22698) posted at 5:19 PM on Sunday, August 6th, 2023

I was looking at some old pictures today and was triggered/memories. My wife had an affair with the owner of her employer from 1998 to 2007 before I discovered it. My mental pain for the first couple of years many times was 10 of 10. I tried because I did not want my kids, as they become adults, to be placed in split time like me when my parents divorced. We reconciled. It gradually got better as the years passed.

I say my mental recovery took about 5 years, but in that time, I changed much for the better. Sometimes today I can see or hear things that remind me of the other man, the betrayal, and even talking to OMW last year when she was behind me at a professional basketball game. She was with her friend, so it was just small talk. Sometimes I'm curious as to how they managed to stay married.

My wife went all in for me. She must have given me heartfelt apologies hundreds of times. We tried it all, from therapy, Retroville, trips, etc. Not much of that helped my pain, but joining a golf league and getting involved in the community, and taking on new opportunities at my job worked best for me.

As I was looking at the pictures, I thought to share my feelings today. It has been months and months without a single thought of my wife's affair. For a few years now, when I do, the thoughts are just passing with no real emotions attached.

We now have two grandchildren and a third on the way. We watch them often, and my happiness is 10 out of 10 when we do because it's fun. We have greater wealth today, and I don't treat my wife like the queen bee I once did. I can't tell you why I don't get triggered anymore, I just don't.

My prayers go out to each one of you here today.

posts: 2882   ·   registered: Feb. 2nd, 2009   ·   location: Indiana
id 8803475
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