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I Can Relate :
Long Term Affairs Part 39

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MangledHeart ( Webmaster) posted at 3:15 PM on Friday, November 5th, 2021

Bumping by request smile

Worry does not empty tomorrow of its sorrow; it empties today of its strength. ~Corrie Ten Boom

posts: 10000   ·   registered: May. 31st, 2002   ·   location: The beach
id 8696986
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Chaos ( member #61031) posted at 4:21 PM on Friday, November 5th, 2021

Another gift of the LTA. OBS reached out again. I haven't heard from him since early spring - when we had to have a Cease and Desist sent because LTAP was using fake profiles again to try to connect with WH. He is having that "gut feeling again". On my end, WH turned up "clean". Trust but Verify.

What I did find is a few things in the spam folder. Unopened. Un responded to. Hanging. From "facebook user" which [according to a few sources] means they were from an account that has been deleted. They have been from anywhere from 1 year ago to 8 weeks ago]. All with 1 word "hi" "hello" "hey". Coincidence - absolutely. But what I've learned form WH over the years - that's how he and LTAP would see if the other was willing to "start talking" again after a break (that could have been days/weeks or months on a few occasions). While nothing can be proven - all signs point to failed attempts by LTAP. Even OBS feels it was her.

But this reach out tells me to be on by toes. OBS did tell me LTAP has been on a tear lately - wanting her "revenge". This does not bode well for anyone. For him - his wife/LTAP still has a strong emotional attachment to WH. For me - she will let dust settle and try to work around that C&D.

Living in the wake of a LTA is no fun. I wonder if I ever will have rest from a LTAP that just won't get over him.

BS-me/WH-4.5yrLTA Married 2+ decades - Children (1 still at home) Multiple DDays w/same AP until I told OBS 2018 Cease & Desist sent spring 2021"Hello–My name is Chaos–You f***ed my husband-Prepare to Die!"

posts: 3533   ·   registered: Oct. 13th, 2017   ·   location: East coast
id 8697043
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Wiseoldfool ( member #78413) posted at 5:05 PM on Sunday, November 7th, 2021

Chaos,

My WW’s AP was my best friend. He was in our wedding. We were all very close for twenty years. I won’t recount the brutal nature of the double betrayal and LTA here, but it went on for several years right under my nose.

She finally tried to break it off and his response was to burn all the bridges and disappear. I did not learn of the affair until it had been over for five years, and that was several years ago. So, neither of us had contact with him for about eight years. But……..

Because the world is a small place and sometimes exceedingly cruel, while my mother lay dying I found myself in his workplace, face to face with him for the first time in eight years, and for the first time since I learned of the affair. He knows I know, because I sent him a text to tell him I know a couple of years ago. He didn’t have the courage to respond or the decency to apologize.

So there I was, in the midst of my mother’s death, having my wife’s affair intersect in my real life in real time.

He’s a coward, so when I locked eyes with him he froze. Speechless. I just chuckled at him and shook my head, then walked on by and got on the elevator. When I got to my car, I was livid, for all the obvious reasons: the fact there was an affair, the fact he initiated it, the fact it went on so long, the cowardly failure to apologize once he knew I had learned of it, and the fact that I couldn’t even attend to my mother’s death without having my wife’s affair surface like that.

Anyway, I feel your pain. It sucks what our spouses did to us, and how the affair continues to disrupt our lives even years later.

Every secret you keep with your affair partner sustains the affair. Every lie you tell, every misunderstanding you permit, every deflection you pose, every omission you allow sustains the affair.

posts: 234   ·   registered: Mar. 1st, 2021
id 8697385
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whatisloveanyway ( member #66450) posted at 4:26 PM on Tuesday, November 9th, 2021

Chaos, so sorry the LTA and crazy LTAP continue to rear their ugly heads. I don't know what else you can do to feel more secure and move on since you are dealing with a crazy person. It seems like our efforts to heal and move forward are monumental in the easiest of circumstances, but you got an extra helping of damn hard. So glad all evidence is that your H is staying vigilantly NC. Hope you hang in there and things calm down again. Vent anytime.

BW: 62 WH: 62 Both 57 on Dday, M 35 years, 2 grown kids. WH had 9 year A with MOW, 7 month false R, multiple DDays, years of trickle truth.
I got rid of her with one email. Reconciling, but the lies have piled up. Trying one more time, again.

posts: 432   ·   registered: Oct. 9th, 2018   ·   location: Southeastern USA
id 8697724
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Notaboringwife ( member #74302) posted at 9:05 PM on Tuesday, November 9th, 2021

Chaos,

Living in the wake of a LTA is no fun. I wonder if I ever will have rest from a LTAP that just won't get over him.

I am wondering the same thing about my husband's LTAP. Will she ever detach from my husband? When? Do I have to be on my guard all the time wondering when and how she will reach out again? Is she drunk or sober when she reaches out? Why is she still at the age of 71 years old, holding on to my husband?
Is she depressed, angry, pissed off at the way my husband dumped her almost three years ago? Is it revenge she wants? Does she just want to see whether my husband will renew their past relationship? Is she crazy? Is she lonely?

My husband has kept stealth, no contact. We thought we had blocked her, but no..somehow she got through. She also did a drive by our house...I saw her and recognized the car. Maybe more times , who knows?

She is not over him. My husband is over her. Me, I am surviving and I definitely relate to this.

Me: fBS late 60’s
Him: fWH late 60’s
DDay : March 2019
Separation: March 2019
R: June 2019

Shift your internal stance from "I’m right and you’re wrong" to "help me understand." Everything else follows from it...

posts: 318   ·   registered: Apr. 24th, 2020
id 8697765
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GraceLoves ( member #78769) posted at 10:18 PM on Tuesday, November 16th, 2021

@Chaos, sending hugs. Also got a crazy AP here.

I am not even making this story up, but I swear to God, WH moved country to escape and six weeks later the crazy bitch showed up on holiday about 3 miles away (5000 miles!!!) tagging mutual friends in on social media (who were not with her!!!) to be sure we saw it.

We had to delete social media entirely now.

Only 5 months since he moved and stopped seeing her every day at work.

Only 2 months since he stopped working for the same company and was able to fully "block" her on email and phone.

He thinks she will leave us alone now. I think he's probably being optimistic!

BW - seperated since Nov 21
DDay 1 - Nov 20, LTA during LDR. DDay 2 - Feb 21, ONS with AP. WH will maintain we were separated
DDay 3 - June 21, discovered WH had exchanged closure emails with AP

posts: 138   ·   registered: May. 9th, 2021   ·   location: London
id 8698763
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Tallgirl ( member #64088) posted at 1:01 AM on Saturday, November 20th, 2021

Chaos, I am sorry to hear that the donut whore is unsettled. Honestly, what the fuck is with these women. Get your own life. And be Ashamed.

Clearly they need a lot of help.

I am thrilled your H passed your checks with flying colours.

Legally separated, one more step.

posts: 1978   ·   registered: Jun. 11th, 2018
id 8699399
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Hurtmyheart ( member #63008) posted at 5:38 PM on Saturday, November 20th, 2021

What I did find is a few things in the spam folder. Unopened. Un responded to

Chaos, just to let you know, I have been able to read my emails and go back and mark them as unread.

posts: 870   ·   registered: Mar. 12th, 2018
id 8699462
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Chaos ( member #61031) posted at 5:29 PM on Monday, November 22nd, 2021

Hurtmyheart - True. All true. Which is the Verify part of Trust but Verify. These are via FB messenger. And while he could have opened them, then marked them unopened, and left them - my gut tells me if he did that he'd have just deleted them instead. They are still there, hanging.

They span from a few months ago to a few years ago.

The fact that they are in the spam part of "message requests" and appear unopened, they are un-responded to and the profile of whoever has sent them has been deleted or he blocked from it.

All signs point to someone [probably that DW of a LTAP] has been fishing - no one has taken the bait. However - what this discovery tells me is to be on high alert. WH seems to have passed with flying colors. Whoever is creating then deleting profiles when reaching out doesn't work - has not.

Because if it happens again and I can trace it back to her - that's in violation of the Cease & Desist.

BS-me/WH-4.5yrLTA Married 2+ decades - Children (1 still at home) Multiple DDays w/same AP until I told OBS 2018 Cease & Desist sent spring 2021"Hello–My name is Chaos–You f***ed my husband-Prepare to Die!"

posts: 3533   ·   registered: Oct. 13th, 2017   ·   location: East coast
id 8699649
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ClimateChange ( new member #75032) posted at 2:20 AM on Tuesday, January 4th, 2022

My first post on this forum although DD was in June 2018. My question is, does limerance still apply in a LTA? My WH had a 9 year affair. He says he loves her and always will (but he loves lots of people! She's no different! Yeah, right). Does he really love her or is this limerance, as he never had to face real life issues with her, like raising teenagers and dealing with an overbearing mother-in-law? He says the affair is over (certainly the physical part is), but he will always love her. I struggle with thoughts that he sees his relationship with her through rose colored glasses, whereas his life with me has been fraught with struggles and conflict.

posts: 9   ·   registered: Jul. 30th, 2020
id 8707260
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gmc94 ( Guide #62810) posted at 4:06 AM on Tuesday, January 4th, 2022

Quick response is: I think limerance may - and may not - exist in any A, including a LTA. I don't think my WH had love/limerance for his LTAP. But there are other SI members whose WS did have love/limerance with their LTAP.

He says he loves her and always will .... I struggle with thoughts that he sees his relationship with her through rose colored glasses, whereas his life with me has been fraught with struggles and conflict

THIS is what I believe may need further exploration. Primarily bc most SI members would agree that once a WS "gets" and "owns" their choices and finds "remorse", the WS will no longer have many affectionate feelings for their AP.


So, when the WS still has feelings of affection for someone who willingly engaged in behavior that devastated their BS, it makes sense to me that the BS' spidey senses would be on high alert. IMO, the goal is for the WS to reach "indifference" WRT their AP... someone who is not even a thought in the WS' life (many believe the opposite of love is not hate, but indifference. To hate someone requires CARING, to be indifferent requires nothing - a void or black hole of emotion).

Another way to look at it is that some BS believe the AP is also culpable in the hurt/harm to the BS (FWIW, this is a belief I personally share). So, for the WS to have affectionate feelings for the AP is akin to a spouse having "love" for someone who has beat the crap out of their BS. Not a good look.

Now, if we take these thoughts a step further, it can, IMO, get kind of dicey, as I also believe that SELF love is an important part of a WS' healing/change to safe partner. It can be a lot to think about.

M >25yrs/grown kids
DD1 1994 ONS prostitute
DD2 2018 exGF1 10+yrEA & 10yrPA... + exGF2 EA forever & "made out" 2017
9/18 WH hung himself- died but revived

It's rude to say "I love you" with a mouthful of lies

posts: 3825   ·   registered: Feb. 22nd, 2018
id 8707277
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TheEnd ( member #72213) posted at 3:33 PM on Wednesday, January 5th, 2022

I've read that limerance lasts longer in an affair. The basis for limerance is the uncertainty. When will I see them again? Will they call? Do they like me as much as I like them? In a normal relationship, that uncertainty fades as people commit to each other, start to feel secure in the love. The feelings change to hopefully, a deeper, stronger bond.

I'd say after nine years, limerance had faded. I'll guess it was a limerant affair but after all of that time, it likely developed into a deeper bond.

The other thing about LTAs is that for it to go on that long, both parties were getting their needs met in a mutually satisfying way. Those types of affairs can go on a lifetime. Neither party wants/needs more than the affair provides. Both stay in their marriages or separate lives and cake eat with their AP. So it doesn't need to be a soulmate, twin flame love match to go on long term. It only needs to be mutually satisfying for the cheaters.

So, having said all that, my point is, yes it was probably a limerant affair. Yes it can last a long while in an affair situation. No, it's not likely it's still limerance talking after nine years. No, that does not mean it was a soulmate thing. Just two selfish people who found a way to feed each other cake.

Having said all of THAT: your husband is telling you he loves her and always will. Believe him. It's how he feels and while we can armchair psych how he shouldn't feel that way, how his thinking is warped, how he's delusional, or whatever, the point is, he says and feels love for her.

It shows a decided lack of feeling for you. Are you ok with this? Are you willing to wait until he comes around (if he ever does) to seeing just how horribly selfish and cruel he was to you? How much of your life are you going to give away waiting for him to fall out of love with her? What if he never does? Are you ok with sharing your husband's heart with another woman?

PS: if he pulls that "just like I love other people" crap again you may want to point out that unless he is sleeping with said other people and risking your entire future and that of your family, STFU. It's not even close to the same thing.

Focus on you. Take the facts as you know them and decide how you feel about that and what actions you're going to take to make YOU happy, to get the life/love/marriage YOU deserve. This forum is littered with stories where the WS didn't get real about what they had done or what they wanted until the BS said "enough about you. this isn't good enough for me."

Keep posting.

posts: 247   ·   registered: Dec. 3rd, 2019
id 8707629
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Notaboringwife ( member #74302) posted at 3:39 PM on Friday, January 7th, 2022

But there are other SI members whose WS did have love/limerance with their LTAP.

My husband was one of those. He told me his "I love you's" to his AP were fully reciprocated. Notably when he moved in with her after D-day. He also said that at the time it just felt right. He also added that saying those words to his AP made him feel good about himself.

Funny that 3 months later he was asking to return. His words were "the grass is not always greener on the other side", full of shame and remorse he was.

It took our separation for him to see that his imagined, fantasy life with her was just an illusion. He sure had a vivid imagination! laugh And moving into reconciliation after our separation, his feelings for her were regret for hurting her, and later indifference to her. Those are his words.

I don't know how profound his "love" for her was. Though I suspect she was far more smitten about him than he with her. She's tried a few times in the past three years to reconnect unsuccessfully with my husband. We maintain the NC.

I believe he holds some residual good feelings about her. I mean they did have good times together. It would be ridiculous for me to think that they did not enjoy one another's company, including sex.

But is this love or limerence? No. Maybe nostalgia. Some folks can confuse love with the good nostalgic feelings about the past.

And me, well through all of his shit, I survived. And more importantly, I understand so many more nuances about his infidelity and it's consequences, through therapy, this forum, and reading.

We are both learning and re-learning to be better people for one another. And that for me, is real love. smile

Me: fBS late 60’s
Him: fWH late 60’s
DDay : March 2019
Separation: March 2019
R: June 2019

Shift your internal stance from "I’m right and you’re wrong" to "help me understand." Everything else follows from it...

posts: 318   ·   registered: Apr. 24th, 2020
id 8708266
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Chaos ( member #61031) posted at 5:09 PM on Thursday, January 13th, 2022

You don't have a LTA without some type of feelings bleeding over.

In my case - OBS reached out recently about this. He asked for clarification about some details [keep in mind, the Cease and Desist we sent LTAP does not prohibit OBS and I communication - simply LTAP].

I'm sure in WH case there was limerence. And probably for a while some love. After all - LTAP was the object of his unrequited love of youth.

OBS asked about the "strong emotional bond" between the two. Being as we just had to have a Cease and Desist sent spring 2021 - there still is one. She just wouldn't let go. Probably still won't. Even the attorney who sent the C&D called her a bunny boiler. According to OBS - she still talks of "revenge" on us for "ruining her life"

BS-me/WH-4.5yrLTA Married 2+ decades - Children (1 still at home) Multiple DDays w/same AP until I told OBS 2018 Cease & Desist sent spring 2021"Hello–My name is Chaos–You f***ed my husband-Prepare to Die!"

posts: 3533   ·   registered: Oct. 13th, 2017   ·   location: East coast
id 8709547
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Tallgirl ( member #64088) posted at 12:04 PM on Monday, January 17th, 2022

My ex had a 5 yr affair. He was in love with her and he only saw her as good, kind hearted. He told me he was in love, he even went as far as buying her a ring. They had a deep connection. She has continued to reach out to him even after a year after he ended it. She said in her card "I know what we had was real".

I believe limerance is real, this woman used to threaten him with box cutters which she had apparently hidden all over her place. when she drank she was horribly cruel, she told him that she dreamed of lighting him on fire. And He literally told me that I would like her because she had a good heart. His feelings were incongruent with reality.

Real life is messy, affairs aren’t real life, they are in a bubble, protected from the bumps and bruises of everyday life. Bills, money strain, family, dependents, work. I think for some that is why the connection is hard to break.

Does he still love her? He told me no when we last spoke about it. But he has lied so much I will never know. He claims they were happy for 2 yrs. I know the entire time of the A, our marriage was dying.

Legally separated, one more step.

posts: 1978   ·   registered: Jun. 11th, 2018
id 8710286
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ClimateChange ( new member #75032) posted at 8:06 AM on Thursday, January 20th, 2022

All the responses to my post have been so insightful it's hard to know where to start. I'll start here:

Another way to look at it is that some BS believe the AP is also culpable in the hurt/harm to the BS (FWIW, this is a belief I personally share). So, for the WS to have affectionate feelings for the AP is akin to a spouse having "love" for someone who has beat the crap out of their BS. Not a good look.

My WH refuses to tell me anything about his AP. I know who she is but he won't answer any of my questions regarding what she understood or what their dynamic was or what she thought the situation was. He says, "she's not here and I can't speak for her."

After DD he said he had to tell her that he wasn't going to leave me. He wouldn't admit to their having plans in that direction. But I'm guessing it was what she understood would eventually happen.

I've heard so much about MY failures and faults. I've told him it would be helpful if he could tell me why he DIDN'T leave me for her. Like what are the reasons I'm superior to her? But no answers from him. I believe he sees this as a way that he's an honorable man, protecting her honor, being a gentleman. He will not admit to her bearing any responsibility. He takes it all on himself, like he manipulated the situation and she is blameless. This drives me nuts.

On the other hand I've had to listen to an unending dialogue of MY faults, and how unhappy he was before the affair. None of it expressed to me at the time. In fact, I thought I could do no wrong. Even when I asked if I was being unreasonable or "hard to live with" he reassured me everything was ok. No problems.

I feel like 10 years of my life I was living in the dark. Every day I'm waking up to this nightmare which bears no resemblance to my previous life.

posts: 9   ·   registered: Jul. 30th, 2020
id 8710778
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TheEnd ( member #72213) posted at 1:35 PM on Thursday, January 20th, 2022

That is painful, CC. He is placing his AP (or at least the affair) above you. Their thing is all protected in pretty little bubble wrap while you stand in the rubble of your life.

This is not acceptable for moving forward with the marriage. At least not for me. The walls of that affair need to come down. You need access, not to pain shop, but to be let in, to begin to trust (i.e. he's willing to be vulnerable, he's willing to give you what you need), and frankly, to shine some reality light on his fantasy world. She certainly had access to YOUR marriage. He gave her a window to look into YOUR life and take what she pleases. Get angry about that. You are not being treated fairly.

He is preserving the fantasy and that is not good for your marriage.

posts: 247   ·   registered: Dec. 3rd, 2019
id 8710792
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Tallgirl ( member #64088) posted at 1:08 AM on Friday, January 21st, 2022

CC your husbands response is a cop out. Been there. It’s selfish.

How can you heal what is buried or hidden.

You can’t

Legally separated, one more step.

posts: 1978   ·   registered: Jun. 11th, 2018
id 8710942
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Chaos ( member #61031) posted at 1:45 AM on Friday, January 21st, 2022

My WH refuses to tell me anything about his AP. I know who she is but he won't answer any of my questions regarding what she understood or what their dynamic was or what she thought the situation was. He says, "she's not here and I can't speak for her."

He's protecting AP. And frankly that pisses me off.

What is more important is how it makes you feel. Some BS are OK with not knowing details. Some [like me] need to know every little thing.

How dare he?!

BS-me/WH-4.5yrLTA Married 2+ decades - Children (1 still at home) Multiple DDays w/same AP until I told OBS 2018 Cease & Desist sent spring 2021"Hello–My name is Chaos–You f***ed my husband-Prepare to Die!"

posts: 3533   ·   registered: Oct. 13th, 2017   ·   location: East coast
id 8710950
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gmc94 ( Guide #62810) posted at 7:29 AM on Friday, January 21st, 2022

"she's not here and I can't speak for her."

perhaps, but he CAN speak for his understanding of what the dynamic was, his understanding of what her feelings were, etc.

I've had to listen to an unending dialogue of MY faults

WS need to understand that, absent unusual circumstances (eg MH, or a pre-A abusive BS, etc) IF the WS works / SHOWS progress to become a safe partner and IF the BS (and WS) commit to R, THEN there is a time to address M issues. Otherwise, it's like trying to fix a broken foot when the patient is in cardiac arrest. Now, if the WS & BS do commit to R (or the cardiac patient gets the stent to stabilize the crisis), then I think the BS needs to be prepared to accept and be accountable for any bad behavior on their part that may have contributed to Pre-A issues in the M. Tho with a long LTA, I think sometimes that can be difficult to parse out. Where do you "fit" on that spectrum? Do you feel you and WS are both committed to R? Or just trying to get through the day?

What has your WS done to change, rebuilt trust, establish emotional intimacy, learn empathy, find his whys, etc? Cuz if he's still professing "love" for his AP, sounds like there is more work to do... perhaps a LOT more work to do. Again, ambivalence or disgust is what most WS feel when they've done the work... when they can really see and accept that their AP was just as effed up as they are, bc it's pretty effed up to knowingly sleep with a married person (I give leeway/compassion to an AP who was just as duped as the BS bc the WS said they were single, separated or D, but that seems to be more the exception than general rule).

And -more importantly - what have you done to work on your own healing? What's happening at 3-1/2 yrs post d-day that's prompting you to ask about the limerance?

GENTLY, I sense anger/resentment & some feelings of victimization in your posts. I am NOT judging you - not by a long shot. I think most BS' have those feelings years/decades after dday (I sure do - we WERE victimized by our WS for YEARS, and there's plenty to be angry about!) If this has some truth to it, what's going on for you right now? Or are these things that have been festering since dday? Do you WANT to remain M / try to R? Or do you want to D, but find it too scary/daunting/unworkable at this point (eg finances, kids, etc)?

We are here to help as best as we can...

ETA: BraveSirRobin (a FWS) has a post from earlier this week in the 'BS Questions for WS" thread that touches a bit on her perspective / feelings about her AP. It's in response to a BS' question of how the WS' feelings for the AP evolved, from love, over time. You may find that helpful (tho warning - that thread can be triggery AF, so I don't go there if I'm not in a GOOD headspace).

[This message edited by gmc94 at 7:40 AM, Friday, January 21st]

M >25yrs/grown kids
DD1 1994 ONS prostitute
DD2 2018 exGF1 10+yrEA & 10yrPA... + exGF2 EA forever & "made out" 2017
9/18 WH hung himself- died but revived

It's rude to say "I love you" with a mouthful of lies

posts: 3825   ·   registered: Feb. 22nd, 2018
id 8710988
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