SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

It is not that all BH's are into anal sex.

It is an example used to illustrate a point.

That a sex act that the WW freely gave her OM

yet she refuses to treat her BH equal and do it

for him.

And, that what they were doing with the AP wasn't "real" it was part of the FantasyLand and their alter ego.

This is a cop out.

I agree and that is something that needs to be worked on by the WS. However, I think that is how some WS's are able to do things that they don't necessarily want to do but do because they are so wrapped up in the "fog" and are willing to do what it takes to keep the fantasy going.

I agree and that is something that needs to be worked on by the WS. However, I think that is how some WS's are able to do things that they don't necessarily want to do but do because they are so wrapped up in the "fog" and are willing to do what it takes to keep the fantasy going.

Well what the heck should they be doing to keep the MARRIAGE going then?

@SMS, again, and I really want to know... would the below comment fly with you as a valid perspective from a man looking to R?

"Yeah, I am really sorry. All of the excitement and intimacy that I showed my AP that I never showed you? Well, that was just a sign of my brokenness. It was really just the currency that I paid to get sex. I know that you love me, and you will understand that I can't do those things with you."

But forcing/demanding sex acts that both are not willingly, lovingly on board with is not a healthy way to reconcile

I made sexual acts a requirement for me to even consider reconciliation, and we haven't divorced. We both know that there is no one single road to r.

I didn't force her. Didn't hit her. I didn't yell or scream. I wasn't menacing. I wasn't arrogant. I was selfish, sure. But I was also selfish in demanding she find work as a condition of reconciliation as well.

She had a choice. She could have left at any time. Still can.

I think, for myself, making sure it was on the plate was actually me being more authentic about my own sexual needs. Many of which were suppressed under the happy wife, happy life mantra. Many of which were denied outright. And I didn't push the issue because it wasn't worth divorcing over then.

But right after she cheated? Well, the marriage was over. I was ready to leave. The options became divorce, rugsweep, or reconcile. And, to he honest, I didn't have all that many reasons to wanna do the last two.

So on account of the kids, I said I was willing to offer to reconcile if she were able to meet some specific items beforehand, including a postnup, her working, and a more equitable sex life.

You can call that abuse all you want, but I would imagine that it's in the eye of the beholder.

Few women are denied things sexually by their H (yes, it DOES happen, and I think there pain is equal and perhaps worse than mine because of the social stigma that brings). But in almost all M/F relationships, it's the woman denying the man things sexually, not the other way around. And, as such, this is an issue that's definitely slanted towards male BS's. That's why I try to draw a reasonable parallel, a H who wouldn't go down on his W (and she wanted it), but did it all the time for his AP.

And that's probably where I need to show greater understanding. I was one of the wives who was denied by my husband, regularly, with laughter, mocking, and unfavorable comparisons to past lovers on his part. He'd talk about other times he'd done those things, but not do them with me even when I begged. After years, it's finally changed. It probably helped that I stopped asking; no pressure on him, plus I think he wondered why I stopped asking (answer: I was detaching. Him not wanting to do things is one thing; scorning me for it was something else entirely). Since that was my experience, I get frustrated when I see "it's a men's issue". But if the pattern is that men experience it more than women, who am I to argue? I just wonder, perhaps women experience it more than we realize? But because there's a social stigma around it, as you've said, perhaps fewer women are open about it.

I suppose this is what I wonder... For men, their sexualities are largely accepted as an intrinsic part of their humanity. For women, we're frequently told to downplay our sexualities, lest we be called vile names and not be seen as desirable in a long-term capacity. And then we say that men have higher sex drives than women. Do you think it's a coincidence, considering those two narratives? I don't.

In more obvious terms, it's freaking complicated.

Have compassion for yourselves, and also consider that the picture might be very complicated with your WS. Something you deserve to know, to be able to discuss openly, to get past roadblocks. Why the OP and not the BS? Worth questioning. I doubt there will be any uniform answers, because our spouses aren't uniform.

newlease, in general BH's want sexual details more.

Yes the more a BS knows the harder it will be for

them to forget the affair. Harder does not mean

they will not eventually forget.

With that generalization I have seen many

recoveries stall and marriages stay in limbo for

decades till the first spouse dies because the BH

never got all the answers to all of his questions.

His WW never stopped the trickle truth.

Better to get all the truth out early as possible

so the healing gets done in a timely fashion.

Well what the heck should they be doing to keep the MARRIAGE going then?

Clearly go back to the same thing that wasn't working in the marriage before...

I am with Rideitout on this one. If a WW wants to take the advice of other women about which of her BHs needs are valid or not, she's welcome to do so at her own peril. It is split right down gender lines.

You can say that it shouldn't, that it's different than other things pertaining to R, but it matters to men because it matters to men, full stop.

It is not that all BH's are into anal sex.

Yes, but, frankly, I suspect it's the most common "no" from women that's then given to an AP, so it is a good proxy for the discussion. And yes, most men I know would like to experience this with their wives, so it's a relatively universal desire (by no means ALL, but I suspect a significant majority).

However, I think that is how some WS's are able to do things that they don't necessarily want to do but do because they are so wrapped up in the "fog" and are willing to do what it takes to keep the fantasy going.

Well, how about this; how about having a "fog" around your married life. A married life where you'll do anything to keep it going because it's so important and valuable to you. A married life that's worth doing things with your H/W with because you love them and want to see them happy.

Fog is a joke. It's another cop out, IMHO. You just liked the girl and wanted to go down on her, or liked the guy and wanted him in your butt. Where is the fog here? Do women think they need to swallow and have anal sex to keep an AP around? Because they don't, most AP's are "low investment", give him a hand job or two, don't get in the way of his primary relationship, and he'll be happy to keep seeing you. I call BS on this one, there's no "need" to have anal sex to keep the ego kibbles flowing.

I just wonder, perhaps women experience it more than we realize? But because there's a social stigma around it, as you've said, perhaps fewer women are open about it.

Well said silverhopes. I think that this stigma, and the way we're taught to value sex differently between genders, is truly what is at the root of this discussion.

However, I think that is how some WS's are able to do things that they don't necessarily want to do but do because they are so wrapped up in the "fog" and are willing to do what it takes to keep the fantasy going.

You are literally saying that these sex acts are worth keeping the AP around, but not keeping your BS around. This is EXACTLY what we are talking about.

a more equitable sex life

In all honesty I can't reconcile this with making specific sex acts a requirement of staying married.

I can't imagine enjoying a sex act that I had to bargain for in that way. In my mind sex should always be freely given, whether for the pleasure of the act itself or the pleasure in what it brings to your partner.

I genuinely don't mean this as antagonistic as it sounds, more curiosity. What is the pleasure that you now get from these acts? Is it the act itself or a sense of power over prioritising your sexual needs over your partners? A mixture of both maybe?

@xhz700, I thought I already told you that I agree with you, in general. I am just trying to explain how some WS's thought processes are from my reading here at SI all these years. I am not saying their thought processes are correct, they are not.

I will say that most will agree that the WS's have some unhealthy thought processes, issues, coping mechanisms and that all needs to be worked on. And, that would include why they would deny sex acts from their BS that they did with the AP.

When a WS gets healthy they learn about boundaries. They learn that they need to have boundaries. And, part of boundaries is learning that you don't have to do things to please others. Many WS's are people pleasers and conflict avoidant. They learn these boundaries mean they don't have to do things sexually that they aren't fully into, they don't have to do things sexually that they really don't enjoy to be loved or to keep someone interested in them and to stay with them.

ETA:

WH "Yeah, I am really sorry. All of the excitement and intimacy that I showed my AP that I never showed you? Well, that was just a sign of my brokenness. It was really just the currency that I paid to get sex. I know that you love me, and you will understand that I can't do those things with you."

So, if the WS did the work necessary and this is how they still feel about sex acts that are being denied you that was given to the AP, I feel you may be at an impasse. The BS has every right to make this a dealbreaker. A WS has every right to keep their newly learned boundaries intact.

[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 5:49 PM, February 15th (Thursday)]

I will add that if the shoe was on the other foot

and a BW wanted from her WH what his OW got it is

time for him to man up and get it done, often

and better.

I remember BW's (few) and BH's (a lot) both

getting cut off from sex by their WS during an affair.

I know lots of BH's complaining that their WW will

not do for them what the WW did with the OM.

I know my memory is not good as it use to be though

I cannot remember a BW that complained that

her WH refused to give her what he gave

his OW.

"When a WS gets healthy they learn about boundaries. They learn that they need to have boundaries. And, part of boundaries is learning that you don't have to do things to please others. Many WS's are people pleasers and conflict avoidant. They learn these boundaries mean they don't have to do things sexually that they aren't fully into, they don't have to do things sexually that they really don't enjoy to be loved or to keep someone interested in them and to stay with them."

This^^

so the BH is then asking the WW to not have boundaries. Isn't that what recovering is about, the WW shoring up the boundaries?

I seen a WW comment to this so I think it’s ok to comment as well.

Men and women have different ways to connect with their spouse. Men need more of the physical connection to feel close with their wife. When a women is giving that to another person it’s taking that connection away from their H. It makes them feel less then. A BH wanting that back and feeling that connection with their wife again is important to them. My H has never pressure me or demand me to do sexual acts because I did this with someone else. My H has express to me in a healthy way that he does need sex with me to feel that real connection with me.

Women need more of the emotional connection. When a BH is doing all the things, gifts, dinner, trips, giving the time of day to their AP it’s taken that connection away from their BW. To me it’s robbing or taken their NEEDS away from their BS. I am not talking on demand or demanding it anytime or anywhere but I think it’s important for WS to know what you take from your BS and then learn how to give that back again. I don’t see a problem going above and beyond to show them they are willing to repair or give them want they want/need. Maybe not doing it exactly like the way they did with AP but FINDING a way where it’s better for the both. Finding a way to make new but better memories with your BS. I don’t think it’s the act itself but more of the way the BS needs that connection.

Now I have never turned my H down sexual that I did with my AP. If my H ever asked me if him and I did something that I have never with my H I would have to say yes. If my H asked me to do the something with him I would feel like it could possibly trigger my H. I would not want my H to trigger, question was it better with the other person, freak out if he was any good at it. I would find it disrespectful towards my H because I would not want him to think I NEED to react something with my H that I did with AP. I would want to create better and new memories things my H and I have never done before that could be special for both of us.

Overall IMO a WS needs to understand that they take from their BS and find better ways to give this back. To repair the damage they did and make things better to help their BS reconnect with their WS. If I denied my H sex all the time when I know for the fact this is what he truly needs from me to feel close I would think it would be a slap in my H’s face. I take something away from him and now it’s my job to make sure the connection he needs from me is something I need to give him.

Like I said I really don’t think it’s the act itself it’s that connection that was taken from them. There is nothing wrong with wanting that connection back from their WS.

What is the pleasure that you now get from these acts? Is it the act itself or a sense of power over prioritising your sexual needs over your partners? A mixture of both maybe?

No, it's more related to the deflation of compromise. 'Marriage is about compromise ' is something you hear often. What happened in mine is that I compromised on what I wanted sexually. More and more every year.

Expressing those desires was met with 'I'm a mom now, I'm not doing that' or 'i dont want to do that' 'I need more foreplay' and any discussion concerning our sex life was met with misdirection. Intentional? Fuck if I know.

Like the 'if he helped out around the house and vacuumed more, he would be sexier' lie. Believe me, if vacuuming actually turned women on, there would be a college curriculum on it. Fathers would teach their sons the importance. Bars would have a vacuuming stage. There would he vacuuming competitions worldwide.

So, if I were to consider staying and working things out, there would be no more compromise on that. Just like there would he no more compromise on her staying home instead of working.

I guess that's how I saw it. Other dudes mighta saw it differently.

Like the 'if he helped out around the house and vacuumed more, he would be sexier' lie. Believe me, if vacuuming actually turned women on, there would be a college curriculum on it. Fathers would teach their sons the importance. Bars would have a vacuuming stage. There would he vacuuming competitions worldwide.

sigh

Well, I can't speak for all womenkind being as we're all individuals with distinct needs and desires but here's how it works for me.

It's not about vacuuming. It's never been about vacuuming. You know that, I know that, pretty sure the majority of people know that. What it's about is feeling that you are respected and valued as an equal partner with your own needs and wants. Not relegated to maid, nanny and whore based on your gender.

I would struggle with sexual desire towards someone I don't feel values me for me, not what services I can offer them. I can see how this can easily this can occur in a long-term relationship where close quarters, complacency and life-changing events such as young children occur and it's an issue that needs resolved one way or another.

So no, vacuuming will most likely not get you laid. But not vacuuming may be telling your partner that you don't value them and that ain't the slightest bit sexy from a life partner.

But not vacuuming may be telling your partner that you don't value them and that ain't the slightest bit sexy from a life partner.

Almost like withholding sex from your life partner and giving it to someone else might tell them that you don't value them...

Eh, vacuuming speil was me trying to be funny... and flopping apparently .

Agreed, xhz. I apologise if my wording led you to believe I meant otherwise.

But like I wouldnt make agreeing to sexual acts a condition of R, I also would not demand my WH must do certain acts of housework. That's not a fair and equitable marriage. A fair and equitable marriage in my eyes is one where these things are done freely out of love and respect.

[This message edited by ReliantRobin at 6:36 PM, February 15th, 2018 (Thursday)]