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Ultimate Advice or agenda?

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SisterMilkshake ( member #30024) posted at 9:05 PM on Thursday, February 15th, 2018

Totally off topic, but if men are so obsessed with anal why aren't you gay? I mean I know there is more to being gay than just the sex act but...

BW (me) & FWH both over half a century; married several decades; children
d-day 3/10; LTA (7 years?)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak." ~ Homer Simpson

posts: 15429   ·   registered: Nov. 5th, 2010   ·   location: The Great White North USA
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sewardak ( member #50617) posted at 9:07 PM on Thursday, February 15th, 2018

all this talk about anal and it's never been a topic of discussion in my marriage in 30 years. weird.

the "why" of the WW doing those types of things with AP only- the brokenness of the WW.

posts: 4125   ·   registered: Dec. 1st, 2015   ·   location: it's cold here
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xhz700 ( member #44394) posted at 9:09 PM on Thursday, February 15th, 2018

Totally off topic, but if men are so obsessed with anal why aren't you gay? I mean I know there is more to being gay than just the sex act but...

Because being gay isn't a choice?

Usually I am on the same page as you SMS, but having had many gay friends and one gay brother, this question is really ignorant.

Behold! The field in which I grow my fucks.

Lay thine eyes upon it, and thou shalt see that it is barren.

posts: 1586   ·   registered: Aug. 5th, 2014
id 8095786
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xhz700 ( member #44394) posted at 9:10 PM on Thursday, February 15th, 2018

WH "Yeah, I am really sorry. All of the excitement and intimacy that I showed my AP that I never showed you? Well, that was just a sign of my brokenness. It was really just the currency that I paid to get sex. I know that you love me, and you will understand that I can't do those things with you."

[This message edited by xhz700 at 3:11 PM, February 15th (Thursday)]

Behold! The field in which I grow my fucks.

Lay thine eyes upon it, and thou shalt see that it is barren.

posts: 1586   ·   registered: Aug. 5th, 2014
id 8095789
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SisterMilkshake ( member #30024) posted at 9:18 PM on Thursday, February 15th, 2018

Well, that is what I was saying, xhz700, that I know there is more to being gay than just a sex act. Understand that and I agree it isn't a choice. Just wondering why men have an obsession with anal with women. We have vaginas. Men don't.

BW (me) & FWH both over half a century; married several decades; children
d-day 3/10; LTA (7 years?)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak." ~ Homer Simpson

posts: 15429   ·   registered: Nov. 5th, 2010   ·   location: The Great White North USA
id 8095797
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xhz700 ( member #44394) posted at 9:19 PM on Thursday, February 15th, 2018

This is the only example that I can think of on SI in which betrayed people routinely say loud and clear that this is something that they need to reconcile and people tell them that they are wrong.

Maybe a better question would be why a WW is willing to do those things with others, and hot with her BH. What does that say about her?

Behold! The field in which I grow my fucks.

Lay thine eyes upon it, and thou shalt see that it is barren.

posts: 1586   ·   registered: Aug. 5th, 2014
id 8095799
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xhz700 ( member #44394) posted at 9:23 PM on Thursday, February 15th, 2018

Just wondering why men have an obsession with anal with women

Taboo, heightened intimacy, sexual validation? Also, I don't think we're talking about obsession of a particular act, at least I am not. We're talking about something withheld from us, given to another, and then subsequently withheld from us. If you can't apply that same logic to more stereotypical female needs and at least empathize with what men might feel, you aren't trying.

Validation is what we are really talking about here. Why him and not me? I don't care whether every woman in the world wants to shout this down, it isn't invalid just because women disagree with it.

Behold! The field in which I grow my fucks.

Lay thine eyes upon it, and thou shalt see that it is barren.

posts: 1586   ·   registered: Aug. 5th, 2014
id 8095802
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Newlease ( member #7767) posted at 9:24 PM on Thursday, February 15th, 2018

All this debate only makes me feel that getting every single sexual detail about the A is not conducive to R. I guess I understand the need of a BS to know everything. It just seems to cement the mind movies that the BS might be having.

I guess I can't relate because after false R, and D-day number 2, I kicked my XWH out and he never came back. I was open to R, but I really had no desire to get all the gory details about their sexual encounters. Of course, he didn't do one thing towards R and filed for the D himself. Maybe I was just a doormat.

Also, I never felt that his infidelity entitled me to have an A. I don't judge people who do - everyone has their own personal standards. To me, I was married until the day the D was signed and filed. I had a difficult time feeling single even then - after 26 years of fidelity to one man, I had to learn how to be single as an adult.

Sending strength and peace to everyone who is hurting.

NL

Even if you can't control the world around you, you are still the master of your own soul.

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sewardak ( member #50617) posted at 9:27 PM on Thursday, February 15th, 2018

Xhz well then what do you think it is?

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SisterMilkshake ( member #30024) posted at 9:29 PM on Thursday, February 15th, 2018

Maybe a better question would be why a WW is willing to do those things with others, and not with her BH. What does that say about her?

Because the WW is broken? Because they need to keep upping the ante to keep the limerence going? I really don't know as I am not WW. I feel that is something that the WW needs to do some deep work on and not be "forced" into doing anything and everything sexually demanded by a BH if they aren't fully and completely all in on it. They need to figure it out and the BH needs to decide if that is a dealbreaker or not. I feel it isn't because the WW valued the AP more but they (the WW) valued themselves less. And, that what they were doing with the AP wasn't "real" it was part of the FantasyLand and their alter ego.

BW (me) & FWH both over half a century; married several decades; children
d-day 3/10; LTA (7 years?)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak." ~ Homer Simpson

posts: 15429   ·   registered: Nov. 5th, 2010   ·   location: The Great White North USA
id 8095814
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reallyscrewedup7 ( member #30825) posted at 9:35 PM on Thursday, February 15th, 2018

(I'm just going to skip the devolving discussion of whose word is sacred and why men aren't gay and try to get back to the OP)

Greeneyesbluezy,

There is no justification for objectification or abuse of women, even ones that happily cut out your heart. No amount of pain or retribution will help you heal.

I think others have said it well when they express that they wish their partners, the one that professed they would love and cherish them and forsake all others, would want to give of themselves in love and passion as freely as they gave themselves to their adulterous partner in marriage destruction (aka 'the OM')

But alas, it just seems to me that is rarely ever possible. Most WW's seem checked out of reality/marriage/sanity. They get involved with someone they really do not know, who makes no commitment to their safety or well being or that of their children, and gives them everything. These women could wind up dead, raped, given an incurable disease, and certainly have put a few solid nails in the coffin of their family's sanctity. They risk their children's future. All for what? Total bullshit? These women have no idea how to love themselves, much less make their husbands even partly whole after the bomb of infidelity explodes.

So if I could ask a little forgiveness for the men, the faithful men, that are hurting here who have said hurtful things, I would. Searing pain doesn't need to be multiplied.

Infidelity sucks shit

posts: 1145   ·   registered: Jan. 14th, 2011   ·   location: Finding my way
id 8095816
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WilliamM ( member #60910) posted at 9:39 PM on Thursday, February 15th, 2018

She was hurt. Hurt because she knew that she could not change or fix it. So no matter what she did the specialness was gone. So now we try to make Now it simply because a sex act. We did the two things I wanted to do eventually but it was just a part of sex.

As for the rejection. I did not take it as a rejection at first. We talked about it and it was something that she did not want to do. She had friends that tried it and she was told that it hurt. She had not interest in it. It was not something to push. Did not want to see her hurt. But it felt like rejection when she did it with the AP on more than one occasion. Once, ok you tried it, did not like it, you are done. I could have actually understood that. But to do it multiple times, ok, now I have an issue. Why him and not me? We had to work that one out.

All things are possible.

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xhz700 ( member #44394) posted at 9:48 PM on Thursday, February 15th, 2018

Xhz well then what do you think it is?

@sewardak, I am not sure what you are asking about. I've posted a lot.

Behold! The field in which I grow my fucks.

Lay thine eyes upon it, and thou shalt see that it is barren.

posts: 1586   ·   registered: Aug. 5th, 2014
id 8095826
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silverhopes ( member #32753) posted at 9:52 PM on Thursday, February 15th, 2018

Why him and not me?

That really is the question, isn't it?

I don't have any advice, nor any answers. Just wanted to say you've been heard.

Aut viam inveniam aut faciam.

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SisterMilkshake ( member #30024) posted at 9:57 PM on Thursday, February 15th, 2018

I am not shouting it down, xhz700. I get it and it does have merit to have equal sexual access as the AP's did. For both BH's and BW's. I feel that it is a personal call for every couple to make and I just have a problem with the men telling other men what their WW "should" be doing sexually. Like threesomes should be offered up and the like especially when that wasn't in the marriage to start with or even in the affair.

I personally am not and never will be in competition with the OW sexually. I fucking could care less what they did together. I am actually the more adventurous one in our sex life. I know what I like and don't like. I know what FWH likes and doesn't like. I have a general idea what they did together because I know my FWH. If they did something that we haven't done, I don't care. We do what we enjoy because that is what "we" enjoy. If he had anal with OW, I don't care. I am not going to demand anal. Fuck that shit! But, he wouldn't deny me it, though, I am sure.

He has not denied me anything sexually I wanted. I can understand how hurtful that would be to any BS that something sexually was given to the AP and refused the BS. But forcing/demanding sex acts that both are not willingly, lovingly on board with is not a healthy way to reconcile. In fact, it is abusive.

eta: to fix sentence

[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 4:04 PM, February 15th (Thursday)]

BW (me) & FWH both over half a century; married several decades; children
d-day 3/10; LTA (7 years?)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak." ~ Homer Simpson

posts: 15429   ·   registered: Nov. 5th, 2010   ·   location: The Great White North USA
id 8095836
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Rideitout ( member #58849) posted at 10:03 PM on Thursday, February 15th, 2018

This is the only example that I can think of on SI in which betrayed people routinely say loud and clear that this is something that they need to reconcile and people tell them that they are wrong.

Not only wrong, sometimes this conversation devolves into "raping the WW". But, I agree, this is the only area I can think of where people routinely say "that's not a reasonable ask in R" (doing what was done for the AP sexually). Honestly, not to get back onto this topic, but it almost seems like RA's and threesomes are more accepted sometimes.

Taboo, heightened intimacy, sexual validation? Also, I don't think we're talking about obsession of a particular act, at least I am not. We're talking about something withheld from us, given to another, and then subsequently withheld from us. If you can't apply that same logic to more stereotypical female needs and at least empathize with what men might feel, you aren't trying.

Yes. And anal is a proxy, it's the most common thing I see in stories, and there is a reason for that, but it's just a proxy. It could be a BJ, swallowing, bondage or a trip to fancy restaurant. Except we'd all agree that the BS better get reservations for the restaurant.

Validation is what we are really talking about here. Why him and not me? I don't care whether every woman in the world wants to shout this down, it isn't invalid just because women disagree with it.

Women can say it's invalid, it shouldn't matter, and it's an unreasonable ask. That doesn't make any of it true for me personally or for other men who are expressing similar views in this thread. If there are WW's reading this who are trying to R, please, listen to the men in here; yes, you can find plenty of people to tell you that it's "your body, your choice" and "it shouldn't matter, any good man will take you as you are". It doesn't change how many men feel about this, and I hesitate to say, but will, you should probably leave, because many men will never recover from the blow and your life will be filled with resentment. And frankly, you deserve better to, go find a man you want to do these things with. Someone who makes you so excited you want anal/swallowing/etc. Short version, if you did it with the AP and won't with your H, you both deserve better.

And, that what they were doing with the AP wasn't "real" it was part of the FantasyLand and their alter ego.

But it was real. That's the thing, it really did happen. All the "I love you's" and you're my everythings.. Those were fake, or are most A's. But the sex was real, it wasn't your "alter ego" there, it was you, and you really did those things. I'm absolutely in agreement with the "fantasyland" aspect of the EA, for sure, that's 99% bullcrap. But the penis in your butt, or the semen in your mouth, no "fantasy land" about that, it really did happen. And that AP really did get those things from you; things you weren't willing to share with your H, fantasy land or not. And, why not want to visit "fantasy land" with your husband?

They get involved with someone they really do not know, who makes no commitment to their safety or well being or that of their children, and gives them everything. These women could wind up dead, raped, given an incurable disease, and certainly have put a few solid nails in the coffin of their family's sanctity. They risk their children's future. All for what? Total bullshit? These women have no idea how to love themselves, much less make their husbands even partly whole after the bomb of infidelity explodes.

I have no idea. I've started many threads on this, and tried to drive at it from a dozen different angles. If you want to have sex, the actions and effort taken to get into an A make perfect sense to me. You're going to have sex in an A, and you're taking actions to make that happen by advancing it. But if you don't, which most women claim is the case (I wasn't looking for sex) in their A, I have no idea why they do it. So you can be used by a man as a sex toy and discarded when the time comes and his W finds out? So you can have anal sex or swallow semen for someone other than your husband? Simply to hurt your H? There are some reasons I can come up with, but, frankly, none of them make a lot of sense to me, there's just no logic behind an A that's not "I wanted more sex", because almost nothing else of value will actually be gained by it.

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xhz700 ( member #44394) posted at 10:05 PM on Thursday, February 15th, 2018

I don't have any advice, nor any answers. Just wanted to say you've been heard.

Really, thank you.

It's just really sad to see the damage, but then "tough shit, I was broken. Yeah, I enjoyed the hell out of myself, he put it everywhere. You don't get to though, and you are too much of a stand-up guy do cheat on me..."

What a top notch deal for a guy like me.

Behold! The field in which I grow my fucks.

Lay thine eyes upon it, and thou shalt see that it is barren.

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id 8095843
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Rideitout ( member #58849) posted at 10:09 PM on Thursday, February 15th, 2018

. I fucking could care less what they did together.

Because:

He has not denied me anything sexually I wanted.

That is not the case for many men. Few women are denied things sexually by their H (yes, it DOES happen, and I think there pain is equal and perhaps worse than mine because of the social stigma that brings). But in almost all M/F relationships, it's the woman denying the man things sexually, not the other way around. And, as such, this is an issue that's definitely slanted towards male BS's. That's why I try to draw a reasonable parallel, a H who wouldn't go down on his W (and she wanted it), but did it all the time for his AP. That's about the only thing I think is a reasonable comparison, a sex act that women want more than men (some men, I could't have a relationship with that, but, that's just me), that's denied by some men, and often given to female APs.

We all have this pain, it's just typically centered around different things. The WH who writes poetry to his AP but won't do the same after DD with his wife. The wife who has anal sex with the AP but not her H. It's the same pain, just over things that men/women typically value unequally.

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xhz700 ( member #44394) posted at 10:09 PM on Thursday, February 15th, 2018

And, that what they were doing with the AP wasn't "real" it was part of the FantasyLand and their alter ego.

This is a cop out.

I repeat...

WH "Yeah, I am really sorry. All of the excitement and intimacy that I showed my AP that I never showed you? Well, that was just a sign of my brokenness. It was really just the currency that I paid to get sex. I know that you love me, and you will understand that I can't do those things with you."

Would my comment above fly?

Behold! The field in which I grow my fucks.

Lay thine eyes upon it, and thou shalt see that it is barren.

posts: 1586   ·   registered: Aug. 5th, 2014
id 8095853
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Rideitout ( member #58849) posted at 10:15 PM on Thursday, February 15th, 2018

It's just really sad to see the damage, but then "tough shit, I was broken. Yeah, I enjoyed the hell out of myself, he put it everywhere. You don't get to though, and you are too much of a stand-up guy do cheat on me..."

Pretty much the message that's being reinforced here. And toxic, IMHO, to women who are trying to R. Yes, we can all argue/say that "it shouldn't matter". Shout it from the highest mountains, make the best arguments using evolutionary theory from 100's of PHDs explaining why anal sex is wrong.

Guess what? It doesn't matter. If nothing else, realize that this thread is almost perfectly split on gender lines; men are saying one thing, women another. Please don't think that we're all trying to be dicks, that we're all trying to force women to do things with us, or that we hate our WW's and want to hurt them. I know that's not the case for me, and I doubt it's the case for ANYONE who spends the time to come here and try to repair the damage done by an A.

But, it DOES matter. It matters a ton to me, and it matters a ton to many of the other male posters here. We can find a million reasons it shouldn't matter, but it does. And that's the message that WW's should take who are trying to R; this is critical for R in many (I'd say most) cases with a BH. IMHO, WW's "help a BH recover list" should be "Stop lying", then "Do everything you did sexually with the AP and more, without the BH asking, often, and with enthusiasm".

Would my comment above fly?

Not a chance in h**l. If you tried to say that to your BW, I'd hope she'd throw you out. And if a BW came here and said her WH said that, we would ALL say the same thing "He doesn't get it, 180, file papers, and get your affairs in order". Coupled with plenty of venom (deserved) at men who do this kind of crap to women who are good enough to try to R after an A. And THAT, in so many words, it exactly the problem.

[This message edited by Rideitout at 4:18 PM, February 15th (Thursday)]

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