SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Divorce ends the marriage contract and vows legally.

Adultery ends them ethnically/morally and/or spiritually.

To whom do I owe greater allegiance to?

[This message edited by Notthevictem at 12:35 PM, February 15th (Thursday)]

If the WS is willing, coersion has nothing to do with it even if she wasn't initially into it.

If the WS is not doing it out of want or desire - if they are acquiescing out of fear for their marriage then its coercion. Being willing doesn’t equate to wanting to do it...in fact when I say “I’m willing to do that” what im usually doing is agreeing in spite of not wanting to do it.

I feel I would have a greater allegiance to myself and my word.

Truth is, Randy, your analogy doesn't really work as most savvy business people would have a written contract with the stipulation (unlike marriage vows) that if one party breaks the contract that the contract will then be null and void.

Same thing with my word. It has a stipulation (don't fuck me over).

So, maybe asking the WS to take initiative on creating that mood would help. What do you think?

@silverhopes Yes, that's a good idea, and on target. Maybe the thing that's lost is the desire in these situations. IU didn't feel wanted, and it's hard for me to believe I will feel that way in the future. Granted, my situation colors these things A LOT, and I admit that. It's hard to see authenticity in anyone trying to recover from something like this. All I see is, I cheated, and I don't want to have to suffer the consequences, and I will do anything to avoid them. I don't always feel that way, but I have recently.

Perhaps I was just robbed of something that I will never get back. I know that I put too much into my marriage, and that was wrong of me. It doesn't mean it hurts any less, and it doesn't mean that I don't miss who I was.

What I am probably really looking for in all of this is how do I avoid this again? Literally, what makes me different? How can I trust someone again?

I feel I would have a greater allegiance to myself and my word.

Exactly. And cheating terminates the marriage and any debt or vow beyond the divorce decree.

When dating, i could have promised to love her forever. Ever ever? Ever ever. I didn't have to say that if she becomes an ax murdering psychopath, that promise is null. I didn't have to say unless she cheats. It was understood.

If we follow your interpretation of vows, then I'd have to cherisj my wife while she has another man's cock in her mouth.

While SMS and I routinely disagree, I side with her on this one. My wife’s breach of contract does not automatically excuse my own subsequent breach. And I consider it binding until dissolved, or I have mutual agreement by the other party, or—maybe—I have at least initiated the formal process of dissolution.

[This message edited by PlanC at 12:54 PM, February 15th (Thursday)]

I see it kind of like letting a friend have a place to stay for a month. Maybe they hit hard times and so you say "Sure you can stay with me a month". And I will keep my word to that. Its kind of unspoken you act like a good guest. Say, I come home one day and my place is trashed. So, I throw their ass out before the month. Is my word shit now?

" cheating terminates the marriage and any debt or vow "

not to me. I've upheld my share of the bargain. my integrity remains intact.

I see it kind of like letting a friend have a place to stay for a month. Maybe they hit hard times and so you say "Sure you can stay with me a month". And I will keep my word to that. Its kind of unspoken you act like a good guest. Say, I come home one day and my place is trashed. So, I throw their ass out before the month. Is my word shit now?

Randy,

Please look up a list of logical fallacies on the internet. Study it, learn it, let it envelop you.

Breach of contract does not automatically excuse my own subsequent breach.

What if it goes straight to divorce with no intent to reconcile?

If the WS is not doing it out of want or desire - if they are acquiescing out of fear for their marriage then its coercion. Being willing doesn’t equate to wanting to do it...in fact when I say “I’m willing to do that” what im usually doing is agreeing in spite of not wanting to do it.

So, when a WS signs a postnup, its always because of coersion. When you tell them to break it off with their paramour or your divorcing, its coersion. Same tactic. No one is forcing them to do anything.

Inappropriate response

[This message edited by SI Staff at 2:25 PM, February 15th (Thursday)]

Regarding the classic RA...if both parties agree to end the relationship and both are retaining lawyers and not engaging in any “repair” conduct or discussion, then its not cheating to have sex outside the disintegrating relationship. If the goal in having sex with another is to cause pain to the wayward , then it is a RA. If the BS refuses to stay in the marriage while the wayward begs and pleads but the bs is on a straight trajectory to divorce - then sex outside the relationship is not an RA.

I understand divorce can take years. Life is short. But if one isn’t sure - or considering R, even remotely with a wayward who isnt intent on divorcing...then its infidelity.

if both parties agree to end the relationship and both are retaining lawyers and not engaging in any “repair” conduct or discussion, then its not cheating to have sex outside the disintegrating relationship

Thats not the question anymore. Question is it a violation of ones wedding vows.

For me it was all about timing. Why are you offering this up now? My wife did three things with the AP that she never did with me. Two of those things we talked about and she said no and what not interested. Sorry to be graphic but anal, finishing in her mouth, and facial. Never cared for doing facial and it pissed me off greatly that she allowed another man to do that when she had said in the past how grossed out she was by that. The other two things, hurt because I felt she thought I was unworthy of her doing that. I was not special enough. After D-day she did offer this up but it was the wrong time. It felt like it was being done to appease me because of what she did with the AP. And the newness of it and the specialness of it being done with my wife was gone. That is gone forever. I was not the first to do that with her. He was. That bastard was the first to experience those acts. And it is not just about sex either. I have 5 cities that I wanted to visit before I die: San Francisco, Chicago, New York, San Diego, and Miami. She went on a "girls" trip to Miami. She went with one girlfriend (who knew of the affair), and the AP. It ruined my desire to go to Miami. She wanted to go with me but why? Desire destroyed. This one is changing and I might go after all this or next year (if the Lord say the same). Think I got off point...lol

. Never cared for doing facial and it pissed me off greatly that she allowed another man to do that when she had said in the past how grossed out she was by that. The other two things, hurt because I felt she thought I was unworthy of her doing that. I was not special enough

William- when you told her the “not good enough” feelings or not special enough but he was, what was her response? Did she tell you why she rejected you before?

[This message edited by nicenomore at 2:48 PM, February 15th (Thursday)]

Sorry to be graphic but anal, finishing in her mouth, and facial.

Don't apologize, I'm glad someone finally put it down in so many words. This is pretty much "the list"; we've gotten off on this thread into threesomes, hurting women, and a whole lot of additional tangents, but this is, in almost every story I've ever read that has this element (which, frankly, seems to be most WW threads, including my own), this is the list of the "denied to the H, given to the AP".

William- when you told her the “not good enough” feelings or not special enough but he was, what was her response? Did she tell you why she rejected you before?

I'd love to know what she said to this as well. Because, as many of us have expressed in this thread, this is a hard thing to come back from. Women and men (obvious by the 100+ posts so far) see these things very differently, but for me, these are the "ultimate" acts of sexual intimacy between 2 people. It's why AP's want them. What I don't know is why WW's so often provide them to AP's and not their husbands; sure, during the A, OK. But why is it so common that these are denied before, during the marriage when things are good?

What I see in this thread a lot of people upset that this is how some men see it. I hate to say it, but it's just the way it is. If you went and asked 10 men right now, what's the "most significant sexual act" a woman can give you, I suspect 7 of them would answer "anal". The other 3 would probably say "swallowing". Acts of submission, acts designed to make the man feel special, acts that are "reserved" for those you're most in love with. That is obviously not the case for women, I don't believe for a minute that so many WW's are offering up anal because they are hopelessly in love with their APs (more so then they ever were with their husbands). But there's a reason for the behavior; and there's a reason that men feel the way they do about these acts, because in many cases they are reserved for those who are the "most special". Forget about not doing it after the A, why is this such a common element in the M (before the A)? Women know many men want these things but deny them to their H's, even though they know, in their heart, they would be willing to do it for someone else (and then, in an A, often do just that)?

Why?