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Also fair- which is why it’s so important to know what he BS wants and needs, then to want to try and meet those expectations with love. Not just do them outright, do things the BS needs, sex included, based on their needs, not the WS.

And the thing that needs to be reiterated here is that nobody wants it to feel forced. Not the BS, not the WS. That doesn’t sound appealing in the least. But When then BS does voice their needs, the WS needs to understand what’s important, WW or WH, and WHY the BS feels that way. Nothing should be easily dismissed, not even the tough sexual topics.

[This message edited by nicenomore at 10:21 PM, February 14th (Wednesday)]

Oh I agree. I don’t want to coerce anyone into doing anything. Like I said earlier I want a partner who wants to be sexual with me. That’s a pretty simple concept. And having a spouse be highly sexual with someone else while denying me. Or willingly and joyfully wanting to do various sexual acts with another while not wanting to do it with me.

Frankly to me that’s divorce time. And I agree, if your spouse doesn’t want to do sexual things with you then divorce. If a ws feels like they are being coerced or forced into doing acts that they don’t want to do with their partner then it’s simple. Divorce. Walk away. They should have done that before having a affair anyway

A bs in my mind absolutely has the right to expect and/or think that their partner should want to be sexual with them. And if the partner does not, especially after being sexual with others. The bs should walk from the relationship. Or accept the lessened sexual dynamic. One or the other.

My response would be. You wanted to have sex with them. You gave them all kinds of sexual experiences. You obviously do have a good sexual appetite and like these things. Just not with me. Either you choose to want to love me and be with me or I’m out. I’m not interested in your pity sex. I want passion. Intimacy. I want you to want it. And you don’t. I’m not gonna hang it over you. Or force you. I am leaving. That’s the choice

Or you deal with it. Accept that your partner doesn’t want you sexually. Is no longer attracted to you or whatever. Change your life or live it. Don’t sit on the fence and bemoan it

[This message edited by mizunomead at 10:20 PM, February 14th (Wednesday)]

I want passion. Intimacy. I want you to want it. And you don’t. I’m not gonna hang it over you. Or force you. I am leaving.

I think this honest and fair, both to the BS who deserves to be wanted and the WS who has options: in or out, what's it gonna be?

This is simply good communication post-affair (or any time) and firm boundaries, both of which are essential.

I am curious though. What would be people's advice if a WS said that they did not want to perform a BJ or go down on their BS because the BS had poor hygiene?

If someone likes performing a certain sexual act, they would want to do it with their spouse... unless there were other factors involved.

Can any WSs chime in who didn't want to perform certain acts with their BS but did them with APs?

If a BS and WS are committing to R, then they're attempting to build a new marriage. A healthy marriage. Honest expression of needs must become a part of their communication. Expression free of fear, or judgement. I could see new parameters for intimacy coming from that...

Ephimira, I think it could be an easy fix to say "It would help me to meet your needs if you showered right before. It will make it better for both of us."

Because any woman not into threesomes before becoming a wayward, is not into threesomes.

Maybe it’s the possibility of reconciliation, or the shame she carries, but if she offers to watch you fuck another woman in her presence, she is coerced in some way.

And, you fucking another woman, without that ever being a part of your relationship prior to her cheating, now you just fucked another woman and you’re a cheat even if your wife agreed.

Not healthy, not reconciliation.

And, again, there’s so much more to the actual reason for my thread.

Sassy has a good point. I was one of those BS who had absolutely no interest in HB, sex, or even touching. That’s how hurt I was.

She was all into trying to have sex again. As sassy said, even though I didn’t say it, I thought great now you can show me all the new tricks you did with him I do remember when at one point she offered up anal I told her that I had absolutely no interest in reliving her affair with her. I’m sure now she was trying to give me back something, but I didn’t take it that way. Rage blinds you to nuance

Hygiene is a potential problem. And one that should be pretty easy to fix. You just let them know that they need to up their hygiene game. It’s pretty simple

Well, that may not be fair. Another side product of coming out of infidelity. I say what I’m thinking, probably at times a little too bluntly. But. Life is too short to beat around the bush. Say what you want and mean what you say

I get have empathy at least towards someone feeling like they are being forced to do something sexually or coerced. My question would be, assuming that these things happened in the a. Why do you feel that way. Why don’t you want to be with your partner that way. And if you don’t. Are you with the right partner

Green - I think the original message of your post is that you feel as if there a double standard for infidelity for men and women. And perhaps you don’t agree with my sentiments. While we don’t have to see eye to eye, I can still respect your positions.

So let me say this regarding the subject of this thread. I think a WS should want to do right by their BS if they love them, based on what the BS needs and wants, out of love. If that can’t happen, the M belongs in the trash, no questions about it.

This applies to both genders, WS or BS unequivocally, all triggers subcontext included. I’d never tell a male WS different advice then I would tell a female. I can only comment on what I know as a male Bh about my needs, but rest assured Both genders should be treated equal in this regard.

To the bit about the Male telling the Female BS to give better blowjobs, that’s unacceptable and insulting. That’s not ok with me either. She deserves to be understood and appreciated as much as a Bh does, and shouldn’t have to do the heavy lifting. That’s her husbands job. There are inherent differences in the genders, but none of those differences should mean unequal treatment. End of story.

And about slut/ whore shaming. I said it before, but I don’t condone it. single women deserve to be just as unstitmatized as single men. End of story. This changes when the Womanis married, in the eyes of their betrayed. But most Bs don’t want to see their spouse as a slur/whore, they can help it. And again, this should apply to Men as well. A cheating woman is no more whore than a cheating man. End of story

No BH wants a “slut” only to denigrate them later for being a “slut”. I think we want sexual expression exclusively with us, and at the deepest level. But what’s just as important is emotional expression. I can only speak personally, but I read both in a healthy relationship. I am not embarrassed to say that emotional connection is just as important to me. But sex is ALSO really important.

I’m married almost 28 years and together 34. He’s my first and only. I wasn’t his.

We’ve done everything, short of a third party, that I could imagine.

I’ve had some meltdowns here, and posted my shit of the moment.

Not once, not ever was I advised that maybe he should offer me a fuck with another man, just to help me.

That’s the disconnect and what I feel turns actual experience driven advice into agenda driven bullshit.

I think it really comes down to this:

1. waywards are selfish jerks;

2. betrayeds lose respect for the waywards.

My WW managed to so thoroughly destroy my respect for her that she is literally the last person on the planet with whom I would consider having sex. I can well see how other BH's would lose respect to a point where they would stop having regard for the WW's choosing her own preferred activities.

However, it is certainly true for a BH, that part of the hurt caused by the affair is that the WW does things for the OM, that she never did for the BH, and that the WW continues to refuse that is a continuing insult to the BH.

It's rarely the other way around, I suspect, because (sweeping generalisation coming) most men will try almost anything once with their wives, and most women seem to be somewhat less adventurous with their husbands.

[This message edited by LostInTheDesert at 11:45 PM, February 14th (Wednesday)]

Not once, not ever was I advised that maybe he should offer me a fuck with another man, just to help me.

Would it have helped you? Or, was it something you wanted?

In most cases, the answer is no and no. That's why you didn't get that advice, it's not common that women want that from their WH's; yes, some do, but the majority don't seem to have that desire. Just like we don't typically advise BH's to "cut their wives off" from sex, it's not going to help them (the BH) heal, because what they want isn't typically to sexually punish their wives by withholding sex.

Men and women are helped by different things; sexual things seem to help men more (or at least we assume they do; for me, they certainly do) where emotional things seem to help women more. Does that mean that my W shouldn't tell me she loves me? Or that a WH shouldn't try to sleep with his wife? No and no. But, if my W ONLY tells me she loves me, but then doesn't have sex with me, or doesn't have sex that "equals" or betters what she gave the AP, I can tell you, all the words in the world aren't going to matter. And I think the same would be true in reverse, a WH who spend his entire day sexing his wife up, making it all about her, offering up and eagerly participating in MFM threesomes isn't going to help as much as talking more, being emotionally intimate and making the BW feel financially secure.

We are different; sure, it's entirely reasonable that a BW reads this and decides, hey, I want a threesome too, I think it will help me heal. If so, I'd apply exactly the same advice. Or, making it less contentious, my WH went down on his AP every time they were together, I want him to do that to me too. Of course you do, and you deserve to have him do it to you AND MORE, arguing otherwise makes my head spin.

Threesomes are a very extreme example of things you can do sexually to help your BS heal. But, for a BH, things like blow jobs, more sex, outfits, kinky sex, anal sex, swallowing.. Those are the sexual things that many men most want from their wives, and are all about you together as a couple, not a threesome which has a ton of complications and moral implications. And none of the list I offered about if "punishment". Signing a post-nup is punishment (DESERVED punishment). But people do those acts every day with people they love that have no I in their relationship at all. Is every man who has an orgasm in a woman's mouth trying to "punish" her for an A? Is every act of anal sex designed to be painful and injure the other person (if so, gay men are real sadists)? Of course not; these are loving, caring, and intimate acts that people choose to take part in all the time, and they are acts that men AND women desire in a relationship. Why the heck else do those particular acts make there way to the "top 5" things WW's do with their AP's? Because every woman wants to throw her life away to be anally injured by a man? Of course not, because those women are attracted to those men, know they will enjoy that kind of sex, and want to bring them that pleasure. The same reason I go down on my W.

This "sex is violence" undertone that seems to exist here really does tell me a lot about how some women view the world. I'm sorry for you, there are a lot of terrible things about the male sex drive, many of us can/do totally disconnect sex from emotion and do enjoy sexual variety; which leads to terrible pain and suffering for women. But while I've thought terrible, embarrassing and thoughts my wife would find incredibly painful before (I wonder what so-so looks like naked, wonder if she'd be good in bed, etc), I have NEVER thought "I'm going to sleep with my W tonight and put my D in her A to hurt her". I cannot imagine thinking something like that. I have plenty of non-sexual ways that I could hurt her a lot worse than 10 minutes of anal sex if that was my goal, including divorcing her and watching her life spiral downwards. Why on earth would I want to do something so intimate and special with someone I wanted to hurt? It makes absolutely no sense to me unless you really believe that sex is a violent act and men do it out of aggression and hate. If so, speaking for myself, you have the wrong view of my sexuality.

And, you fucking another woman, without that ever being a part of your relationship prior to her cheating, now you just fucked another woman and you’re a cheat even if your wife agreed

I missed something here. If she agrees and participates, how is that cheating?

NTV, I think the point is if she's not doing it because she wants it. If she's coerced or feels obligated to watch her husband sleep with another woman...participate without wanting to...

"m married almost 28 years and together 34. He’s my first and only. I wasn’t his.

We’ve done everything, short of a third party, that I could imagine.

I’ve had some meltdowns here, and posted my shit of the moment.

Not once, not ever was I advised that maybe he should offer me a fuck with another man, just to help me.

That’s the disconnect and what I feel turns actual experience driven advice into agenda driven bullshit."

I assume you are the BW. I do not know your story.

I read your first post on this thread and your

comment in the post above:

"Not once, not ever was I advised that maybe he should offer me a fuck with another man, just to help me."

Seem to be at odds with each other. It seems that

you threw out a generalized idea but did not get

the response that you were looking for.

A RA, revenge affair never solves problems. RA's

only make more problems.

The BS wanting anal because the WS gave the AP

anal (this sex act is just used as an example)

and the WS never gave anal to the BS. Is

the BS being treated as good as the AP got

treated.

The WS gives anal to the BS the BS will not go

through life never of having gotten anal.

There is no need to for the BS to go out and

have a RA.

RA's causes big pain for the WS. More pain just

makes recovery harder and longer.

Quite often the RA after it is done the BS

realizes that it did not fix anything and the

BS still feels empty an broken.

There have been a few marriages that recovered

after an RA. The BS needed the RA to save face

to allow them to recover the marriage. The WS

accepted the RA as the price to recover the

marriage.

Though I have to point out where the WW had an

affair that went from half a year to two years

with lots of sex.

Then the BH went out and had a ONS RA. Or hooked

up twice over a weekend.

How does that even the score?

The WW had sex at least 100 times with the OM

and the BH got sex 2 times with his RA.

Keeping score is not always the best way to

settle things.

Here is a hypothetical... For shits and giggles. Say you two choices after learning your spouse cheated on you, they had a long term physical affair.

Choice 1: Have an ONS with the assurance you could reconcile.

Choice 2: Get divorced and never cross paths with you WS again except for custody type scenarios (Drop off, pick ups, events).

Which would you choose? There is a reason I ask.

Between those two options?

I guess I would just ghost her ass and try to move on. I have no interest in a ONS.

It's pointless unless it's the hottest woman in the world and I'll never get anything close to that ever again. Then maybe, that experience would be be desirable and worth it. It would have to be an off the charts 24/hr sex marathon though, lol.

Taking people out to dinner, at the worst, can be boring and annoying. It is not abuse. But sex is used as abuse, and so when one is coerced into sexual acts, it feels like abuse.

If you don't see my WWs actions of going out and having a 5 month affair while I worked to support her and took care of my daughter during her fuckfest as abusive, you have a very narrow definition of abuse.

Tell you what, for the women here who aren't seeing it the same way as some of the men, what do YOU suggest as a way to fix this. Clearly, if not a preponderance of men, at least a large amount of them see this as a serious emasculation issue. If not making things equal between the BH and the AP in a sexualway, what would you recommend?

Tell you what, for the women here who aren't seeing it the same way as some of the men, what do YOU suggest as a way to fix this. Clearly, if not a preponderance of men, at least a large amount of them see this as a serious emasculation issue. If not making things equal between the BH and the AP in a sexual way, what would you recommend?

I would really like an answer to this too! In my mind I will never understand how a WW gave an AP so much, risked everything for him when he's invested nothing and then would refuse doing the same things with their BS who they've just destroyed through their selfish actions.