SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

OK, I'll bite. :) Yes, I said that, and I stand by it. We would say exactly the same thing to a WH who came here and told a story where he took his AP out to expensive dinners every night, but never took his wife, even though she wanted to go and expressed interest in fine dining. We would tell him, or at least I would; "Find a better restaurant than you took the AP to and go there". Or vacations, find a more exotic or remote location and go there. Or gifts, you gave her a 1ct ring, give you wife a 2. And I would absolutely stand by any of those "punishments" (which is what that thread turned into; I fail to see how sex with the person you love is punishment but, so be it) are reasonable and just given the hypothetical WH's actions.

Perhaps an even better analogy would be a husband who refused to go down on his wife, but did it regularly with OW. It should be understood that nobody should be forced to perform sexual acts they don't want to perform, but nobody should be forced to reconcile with a WS who would provide certain things to their AP but not their BS.

The wording or tone in many of those posts leave something to be desired with regards to respecting women, but the underlying message (as I understand it) is not a call for sexual slavery or an agenda to marginalize women. As he notes above, this reasoning applies equally to both sexes.

Also, not that this is excuses everything, but keep in mind that many the posters have been hurt deeply and recently by the woman they trusted/loved... sometimes anger/rage gets the best of all of us. It may not actually be indicative of any true underlying misogyny.

A couple weeks ago, after my wife said something negative about one of my best friends (for 40 years) who cheated on a girlfriend in college years before he married her (and suggested all my other close friends, likewise about 40 years, are cheaters too because of that) I screamed "Don't you dare talk about my friends you fucking whore!"

Now I don't think she is a whore. I don't look down on women with healthy sex drives (or even unhealthy ones). Hell, I even think actual whores should have the right to do what they want with their bodies. I was just pissed off.

William, did she ever give you an answer for why him and not you?

When a WS gets healthy they learn about boundaries. They learn that they need to have boundaries. And, part of boundaries is learning that you don't have to do things to please others. Many WS's are people pleasers and conflict avoidant. They learn these boundaries mean they don't have to do things sexually that they aren't fully into, they don't have to do things sexually that they really don't enjoy to be loved or to keep someone interested in them and to stay with them.

This^^^^^

This exactly.

Honestly, I don't see the point of bothering to take a cheater back unless you really do love them and really want the best for them. They're just too much damn work.

So, if you love your WS and want the best for them, it's not about getting even or keeping score anymore. It's about getting a better, healthier partner who has healed from wayward thought patterns. And yeah, that would include patterns like doing things you don't particularly enjoy sexually in exchange for attention or forgiveness.

It should be understood that nobody should be forced to perform sexual acts they don't want to perform, but nobody should be forced to reconcile with a WS who would provide certain things to their AP but not their BS.

I agree with your analogy, and here, I'd say, nobody is forced to R with anyone. Where I think we're doing damage is saying "It shouldn't matter to R if you do the things sexual things you did with the AP with your BH/BW (and more)". That's just wrong, it does matter, it will matter, and in many cases, I think if you feel this way (WH or WW) you should end the relationship and forget about R. Find someone like the AP who you WANT to do those things with if it's not your BH or BW.

But don't make it "OK" and an expectation of R that this shouldn't be an issue. It should be a HUGE issue, second only to not breaking off communication with the AP as a deal breaker for me, and I suspect many other men. We all say "you need to stop communication with the AP" and "you need to become transparent" as sage advice to WS's. But the message WW's (in particular) hear around sex here is very unclear; "You were broken", "Don't do anything you don't want to", "Your H needs to accept this". Maybe but unimportant to the BH, yes, but don't expect to R if you're not going to do anything you don't want to, and absolutely not, your H should NOT accept this and should walk if this is how you feel. If you feel strongly about it, you should walk first because, frankly, I know me, and I suspect many other BH's will never be "right" again, even if they "accept" it.

And yeah, that would include patterns like doing things you don't particularly enjoy sexually in exchange for attention or forgiveness.

How about doing things you don't particularly enjoy sexually because you love the other person and want to make them happy? Because, that's what I do, and have done for years in my M. And I think that's the definition of a healthy sexual relationship. If it's "all about me" and what I enjoy, I'll take a BJ before bed, because, after all, it's all about what I enjoy, not my WW, right?

youre assuming I was 'right' in the first place

Mwahahahahaha

Eh, vacuuming speil was me trying to be funny... and flopping apparently .

I chuckled.

I also agree that it would be a deal breaker if WW denied me anything sexually that she provided OM.

If that is what she needs to do to repair herself and "learn boundaries" then fine, but she can practice those boundaries with someone else. Of course, that would also be a complete b.s. copout on her part anyways... so that is kind of an academic point.

I think there's also a misunderstanding on the frequency. Adding a sexual activity to the repertoire isn't the same as saying 'every thursday at 830 pm and every other saturday at 7:38 am.'

How about doing things you don't particularly enjoy sexually because you love the other person and want to make them happy? Because, that's what I do, and have done for years in my M. And I think that's the definition of a healthy sexual relationship.

Are you serious??? Who on earth would want to engage in any kind of sexual activity that their partner isn't fully enjoying?

This is where your side of the argument becomes specious, with its punitive underpinning showing through. I didn't take my WH back to punish him or to get even. I took him back because I'm the best thing for him. If I wasn't, I'd have let him go.

Sometimes adultery is just a deal-breaker. And if the need to even the score isn't resolving, maybe R is the wrong choice.

Are you serious??? Who on earth would want to engage in any kind of sexual activity that their partner isn't fully enjoying?

Why are you angry? What if it wasn't sex?

What if it's sushi?

'You know I love sushi and you always told me you hated it. But you ate sushi with ap, so if you want me to consider r, then we will be eating sushi more often.'

[This message edited by Notthevictem at 6:51 PM, February 15th (Thursday)]

If he tried sushi in exchange for affair kibbles, hey... I'm not a kibble dispenser. I don't want to be treated like a kibble dispenser and I sure as hell don't want a kibble addict on my hands.

I want Authenticity, not some guy choking down sushi he doesn't want just so I won't hate on him.

How do you know he hates sushi?

What about instead of sushi or sex, we say give up porn?

If he ate sushi with an AP and discovered he loves sushi, and if I love sushi too.. hey, more sushi.

If he ate sushi with an AP and didn't like it, but did it anyway in exchange for approval, he doesn't have to eat sushi. I'd rather him be his authentic self in my company. If I didn't, I wouldn't have taken him back.

Are you serious??? Who on earth would want to engage in any kind of sexual activity that their partner isn't fully enjoying?

Are you serious??? You never do anything in bed that's not just for you? I don't "fully enjoy" a lot of things I do in bed; no, I don't hate them, but I don't really like them either. I do them because my W like them, and it make me happy to make her happy.

Honestly, if sex has become "only do what you like", I don't know what to say. That's never how I looked at it, I always saw it (and still do) as a way to do things to and with one another that make the other person feel good and make you feel good, but no necessarily at the same time.

If it's all about me, as I said before, I'll just take a BJ and a nap. Because that's what I like. Not all that wonderful for the W though, so I never just do that, even though some of the other acts aren't really my favorite thing (so I'd say, to use your term, I'm not "fully enjoying" them) to do; I enjoy them because she enjoys them.

Nope. I don't do anything sexually that I don't enjoy or do freely. And I don't expect, and more specifically do not want, my spouse to do things in bed that he doesn't enjoy or do freely. I can't conceive of why anyone would.

Interesting thread.

Oldtruck...there have been betrayed wives who have posted that their husbands refused sex with them during,and after the affair. They were denied sex,and/or certain sex acts. There is one currently posting on the reconciliation forum, and another who has posted quite a bit lately here in the general forum. I'm not going to post their usernames, because it might upset them and feel as if they've been singled out. They're not the only ones,however, to have posted such things. Just the ones who are currently active on this site.

Thank goodness that FWH and I have things we both enjoy fully sexually that we are not deprived by not doing things that the other doesn't fully enjoy. My FWH loves anal, I do not. I am not going to do it. Yeah, I like pleasing him but I am not going to do so at my cost.

I have a friend who is a surgical tech. Her hospital happens to be located in the very center of a good sized gay community. The most common surgery she assists in is anus repair. No, I am not going to ruin my lovely anus because FWH enjoys it and it pleases him.

eta: missing word

[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 7:38 PM, February 15th (Thursday)]

At 11 pages out, is anyone getting anything from this conversation?

Well, we certainly have wondered way off topic.