SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

After reading all the responses, and taking into account what you all have said, yeah, I am getting a PI in the city to get me hotel records and descriptions by the hotel employees . It might help.

Also, I am holding the confrontation until I get more proof, and then, when the kid is at her parents, expose it. That will be next weekend.

Lawyer, doctor, counseling are in line. I am going for an STD test tomorrow. I really don't want to go.

And in response to kgcolonel, no, she hasn't said anything explicit yet, and that's part of what Cephastion was saying: I need certainty, if anything to get some peace of mind. I am second-guessing myself, but it is these tiny little interactions, a call with an absurd request, a myriad acts of omission, a sudden disconnect from her cloud account that I was working on, and that she hasn't allowed to reconnect, are indicators that something big is happening: For example, the cloud service was, in part, to get some tax information that is important for her work. After my comment, she suddenly decided that it can wait.

So, I'll wait, get hard evidence, and confront her when the kid is at the grandparents for the weekend – which was supposed to be our date time.

This keeps getting more complicated.

[This message edited by PeriodicZen at 11:11 PM, January 11th (Thursday)]

o I need proof that would be admissible by a lawyer and a judge. At least I need her to acknowledge out loud that she cheated,

No, you don’t. You know, and that’s enough.

It’s important you truly know this, so that you know you can survive even if you never get any admission. You will be able to move on, constructively, no matter how she behaves.

I do have a kid, and since she was ovulating at the time that they might have had sex, it is important to have proof in order to avoid alimony and perhaps get more custody rights, in case this goes all the way to D.

BTW, I just got the hotel records. They got only one room at least in three different cities, and canceled an AirBnB, at 1am, that was for two rooms.

At 1am. She was awake at 1am. Again, that is so against what I used to know.

Anyway, now there is a more defined course of action, much less hesitation.

I'd suggest you call that PI right back and hire them for a day or two of photography/videography. Hotel records and statements are a start, but I would invest $1-2K in some real surveillance.* The money would be well-invested. They are the experts and I would ask them how the time you buy would be used most effectively. Also ask them to do a background check on the OM. If you don't know for sure, you will find out if OM is married and get contact information for his spouse.

*I used to work as an insurance examiner. I have over 10 years experience working with P.I.s and have seen what some time following suspect individuals can yield. Photos and video can not be explained away or disputed as easily as "hearsay" and receipts. If I were in your position I would be borrowing the money if need be, but I would be asking for some real professional investigative work. A P.I. might also eventually be able to help you if you need to get security footage from liquor stores, etc., particularly nice if they can't actually catch them on video going into the same hotel room or getting physical in the parking lot or the car. I am serious . . . you don't want to limit them if they can get you what you need. That used to frustrate me, when an insurance company wanted surveillance, but wanted it cheap, meaning ineffective. Twenty years ago $1500 would get a quick background check off of car plates/IDs that could often yield a lot of information, and the ability to know when they would most likely catch them on film, and very often one or two video clips of activity that supported suspicions.

Reading your story really got me hoping you are able to get to the bottom of your wife's unusual diversion from her "normal" demeanor. I could feel the choking sensation in your throat as I read your words . . .

What you should do? While she is gone, see a lawyer. Set up your own bank account. Get copies of all financial records—banks, retirement, car titles, house titles. Pull cash out. Maybe install cameras. Buy a VAR. Get ready so you can prove things to yiur satisfaction and have an action plan. If you are right—and you likely are—prepare for battle to secure the most custody, assets, and rights.

[This message edited by PlanC at 12:57 AM, January 12th (Friday)]

Solus sto, about proof:

Bigger:North Carolina (NC) is one of few states where infidelity can factor heavily in divorce. It also allows alienation of affection lawsuits.

Yes, I saw that, and I know the advice to stay and wait is well-meaning. But even in North Carolina, the odds of winning a heart balm divorce action are low. Staying has a high personal cost, and prosecuting a fault divorce and alienation of affection case can be so costly that, really, no matter how compelling the evidence, the best way out is NOT to go forward in this way.

Staying to collect evidence protracts limbo. Before heading down the heart balm road, I'd want to meet with an attorney to determine (a) whether prevailing is realistic, in the current legal climate, (b) if so, whether the legal costs of bringing such an action are reasonable (because the satisfaction of winning isn't as great if you have to hand over everything you won, and more, to an attorney), and (b) if so, WHAT evidence is required to meet the burden of proof, currently

I emphasize "current" because there have been recent cases that are moving NC away from alienation of affection altogether; in my state, fault divorce and alienation of affection were removed from the book between the time I filed and the time we got to court; I'd be loathe to file on their basis and amass large legal bills in a state where the future of these causes of action was in question--I'd want some pretty compelling legal reassurance that moving forward this way would benefit me financially.

[This message edited by solus sto at 10:06 AM, January 12th (Friday)]

You are right, but from the things I have seen, the receipts, the message times, the whole thing, it looks as if I have ot be prepared with all info that I can, because this whole thing was very well planned and executed: reservations, places full of tourists, driving ha;lf an hour just to get back immediately, etc.

I'm going to take this ring off right now.

First step – irrespective of if you eventually divorce or reconcile – is to get legal information.

It’s comparable to putting on your seat-belt before driving into traffic. It’s a safety-feature that is greatly to your advantage IF the proverbial sh@t hits the fan. You don’t put the belt on because you plan on crashing your vehicle.

The legal questions that need answering:

A) Does infidelity impact divorce?

B) If so then how?

C) What is considered acceptable evidence?

D) How likely is it to impact divorce?

You DO NOT take the answers off the internet as valid on the above – including answers we might give you on this forum. You get PROFESSIONAL help.

IF infidelity impacts divorce then your next step is to ensure you have the evidence to the quality-level your attorney outlines.

IF it does not impact divorce and/or is hard to prove/not likely to impact divorce then you expose when YOU are confident there is an ongoing affair. This is an area too many BS fail on – you ONLY need good-enough evidence for YOU.

As the devil’s advocate, then so far you have shown us some red flags, but nothing that can confirm she’s having an affair. Maybe you only see one room booked because his room is in his name. Driving at 1 AM is not infidelity. Drinking and/or partying is not infidelity.

BTW – Does he work WITH her or FOR her? Is she the boss? You talk about her having hired him but also about them working together.

Don’t get me wrong – she probably IS having an affair and the behavior is AT LEAST inappropriate – but solely based on what you share I would want more info.

And boom! A week after day she was supposed to start ovulation, I see her in a selfie with a guy she works with, and to which she has been referring a lot...

The guy - she kept telling me about him - was her driver because he knew the region, and he would be the one driving. So, in every instance, I know that it is this guy driving, and we are paying for it!

I have two questions based on the above:

1) Does your wife drive? If so, she does not need a driver.

2) Has she heard of satnav, and does she have any geographic software on her work laptop or phone? If so, then she does not need someone who "knows the region".

I see her driving to liquor stores late at night, and by her own admission ("via text") partying until 5am. Of course, she says she didn't drink.

Okay, let's think about this:

If she is saying she isn't drinking, that means the booze is being picked up for Mr. Selfie, who is the designated driver. A designated driver who appears to be out getting drunk with her until 5 a.m. So his bloodstream is going to be chock full o' booze when they hit the road a few hours later? Ideal behaviour for a designated driver...And oh so safe.

You mention that, for some reason, you are paying for this guy's services. Why not refuse payment, based on his performance? It is totally unsafe to have a driver who is out drinking and partying until 5 a.m., unless your wife says she went out partying alone (why???) while Mr. Selfie was sober and asleep in the hotel room they were sharing, and that she was making lots of booze runs on her own, alone, late at night, to pick up liquor she wasn't going to drink.

Also, I have no idea what business your wife is in, but why - on a business trip - is she staying out until 5 a.m.? What impact is that going to have on her performance the next day on behalf of the company she represents? Who, when they are travelling for business, stays out until 5 a.m. partying? That, in itself, indicates that something other than business is a priority on this trip.

The more you scrutinise what has been going on, the less her story makes sense.

[This message edited by M1965 at 10:14 AM, January 12th (Friday)]

I was right.

We had a conversation, she admitted it, and promised...

So, we are going to seek MC, and meanwhile I need her to take the new PIN out of her phone and open her email accounts again.

She admitted to having sex, but has been reluctant to say what when etc., making it look like it was a single event, instead of the two week honeymoon, and placed the blame on me: she was alone, so "she acted to take care of herself", in her words.

Another conversation is coming. She has been scheduled to travel again in 5 months, which we knew beforehand, so this is a new interesting wrinkle in that plan.

And she will get tested for STDs first thing Tuesday, but we are still a long way from starting the healing process.

She says that...

I want to R, but getting evidence because at this point, that is necessary.

Don’t let her put any of the blame on you for her cheating. Millions of people have marriages with multiple issues and never cheat. She had lots of options to resolve any marital issues with you other than cheating (discussing these issues with you, MC, IC) Sounds like classic blameshifting.

Jumping into MC with an active cheater?

Bad idea

Serial cheaters Farley stop.

Maybe you should think of getting off this merry go round.

Do you want to be her warden the rest of your life?

She wants to work on the marriage? Great!

First step is her signing a post-nup.

So go see the lawyer about your rights. Get the post nup on terms you like. She may need her own representation. But you get your attorney first.

If she balks, file for divorce and starve her of assets to give yourself the advantage.

But

Oh, yeah, tomorrow we are going to have a conversation abotu secrecy and other basic things for the contract: NC with OM, medical tests, stopping the secrecy, and honesty.

And as for the lawyer... Yes. I need these things, as the guy lives out of the USA (That's why she needed a driver) and she's planning on taking our son to that town when she leaves.

I am not allowing that.

Keep in mind, her affair was not a marriage problem for which you need MC. Her a was an individual brokenness problem for which she needs to find out why and how to heal that. MC so early mostly ends up talking about how both parties contributed to what she ultimately decided to do and you are NOT the source of her issues. After she has spent time doing the hard work to fix herself, then you can start talking about how can you build a stronger better marriage. Really, I would insist on her doing IC (and you too perhaps) and then following up with MC when you can see she is remorseful contrite, empathetic, and on a clear track for healing her brokenness. MC with a cheater that is defensive and accusatory just adds salt into the betrayed spouses wounds.

One more thing, I know it is important to have that conversation about stopping the secrecy, and honesty, but always me mindful that you probably already had that understanding between you and looked what happened. You have to have the talk, but you know no half rational person would not agree to what you will be telling her she needs to do.

From this point forward it is only about actions and nothing about words. She needs to fit your definition of remorse, she needs to show you whatever you need to trust again, she needs to be contrite in the way you need to see it. She needs to give what you say you need without debate or argument.

If your geography allows post-nuptial agreements, make it clean—you get, say, 65% of the assets in all cases, even with no proof of infidelity. You don’t want a proof battle.

A big risk for her—to match the big risk for you to stay with ber.

So she had sex with om because you werent there? That's reassuring, isn't it? Do you have to spend the rest of life handcuffed so you are always there?

What concrete consequences has she suffered? Exposure? Removal from the house? Poly? Hard 180? Post-nup? ANYTHING?

Or will she be allowed to soft-shoe the whole deal--a pat on the hand?