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We had a conversation last night, one of those that we have been having since WW arrived from her project trip, and she maintains the integrity and good nature of her AP. Every conversation that might include him turns into a defense of AP, so much so that the EA/PA remains, in the eyes of WW, a hurtful thing to do, but a justified one.

How does that make sense?

We are in the middle of so many things, personal and professional projects that had to be canceled and/or postponed, like a consulting company that we were working on launching, some projects that arose from her trip, etc., that I am lost.

I do maintain my personal projects, IC, and told her that I am not participating in the proposed consulting company.

How do I stop doing the Pick Me Dance? When do I know that I am doing it?

How do I stop doing the Pick Me Dance? When do I know that I am doing it?

In your case it is every time you talk with her about anything except finances.

How to stop? I hate that answer, but - 180.

I agree with 180. You’re not getting anywhere with this strategy.

I wouldn’t have anymore conversations about it. Maybe write one letter from your viewpoint outlining your boundaries and feelings. Especially something that says something like: “what you’ve done in terms of the physical infidelity has hurt me a great deal, and the fact that you still feel justified in doing it only further confirms that you are still not a safe partner for me. There is no justification for infidelity in any relationship I am in and I refuse to share my partner, mentally or physically, with anyone else. I see your glowing reviews of the man who aided in threatening our M as confirmation that you do not care about me, or our M. Therefore, I have decided to get out of infidelity and will begin to make plans on my own.”

Never do the pick-me dance. It only increases the fog.

You should embrace the 'fuck-you' approach--and mean it.

That was a 2x4 that I indeed needed.

BRB, will read, and act more on the 180.

So with your WW logic you could have an affair with a "good women" and it would be hurt full, but justified?

Is your WW aware that "good" men don't sleep with other men's wifes?

RUN FOREST RUN!!!!

I have an observation and a belief I want to pass on to you. I spent 45 years in a uniform. First in the military and then 20 years having to deal with criminals. Early on in my military career I adopted four principles to live my life by as close as I could. They were Honor, Integrity, Loyalty, and Commitment. With that, let me say that any man who would willing pursue, entice, and become intimate with another man's wife or SO is completely void of honor or integrity. This man is the epitome of a low life human being. And if he is married then he drops even lower. Your wife needs to know that this person she regards, so highly, is a man without principles and someone that needs to be shunned and not revered. He is an incubus and when he grows tired of her he will move on to the next willing female. Not to leave out your wife, she broke all four principles, honor, integrity, loyalty(to you), and commitment (to your marriage). You can do better than her. The worst revenge you could inflict upon both, her and him, would be to let then have each other. I do wish you well.

anoldlion, I believe that what you write is quite right.

The shock now of the infidelity has now passed, and now I am finding more and more of those attributes that make me think less of WW, and to reassesss my own passive role in this relationship, and how I left all these boundaries get all trampled on.

All those values that you mentioned are extremely important to me, as I grew up with those, and believe in them. I did never assess or review her actions against my values, or what WW purported as hers.

Thank you.

To be blunt.

Your wife has sex with a man. The same man who's come into your house "figuratively speaking", p*ssed on your floor, f*cked with your kid's home, his well being.

Your wife, looked you in the eye, and repeatedly disrespected you through her choices and actions.

Then she tells you it was justified, that there were good reasons for what happened.

She tells you to your face the same OM who did all this stuff including the worst, disrespecting you has good qualities that she admires, stuff she finds positive about him.

You wonder why she doesn't respect you. You wonder why this man that came into your house and did all this stuff still gets a pass.

Again. There is no fog. She is not foggy. She's telling you she respects the man who wrecked your marriage and she still has a bed to sleep in and you're still negotiating with her over the rights and wrongs of what she did and she tells you to your face the OM was a good guy!!

How do I stop doing the Pick Me Dance

By stop putting up with nonsense and treating your wife like a grown woman who's choices have consequences.

If the OM is such a good egg tell her you'll pack her packs, serve her papers and start the one year separation. There should be zero admiration, respect for the OM. You don't wait for limerence to end. What is the cost of destroying your family and insisting that there are some positives?

When you've had enough of being slapped in the face,then you'll know what to do. Sometimes people just learn the hard way.

Man or woman, nobody deserves to be cheated on then have it thrown in their face. If someone told you your own story what advice would you give them?

So she went from wanting to R, to considering moving out, to wanting R again?

Be careful, and don't fall for the crumbles she is feeding you to keep you grounded while she decides or waits for OM to decide what happens next.

She is now letting you access her phone because she found other "safe" way to communicate, or OM dumped her or decided to give a break until it settles (Maybe he doesnt want his partner to find out)

Also, the "exit affair" excuse is obviously a complete lie.

Keep strong. Keep rational.

So she went from wanting to R, to considering moving out, to wanting R again?

Be careful, and don't fall for the crumbles she is feeding you to keep you grounded while she decides or waits for OM to decide what happens next.

She is now letting you access her phone because she found other "safe" way to communicate, or OM dumped her or decided to give a break until it settles (Maybe he doesnt want his partner to find out)

Also, the "exit affair" excuse is obviously a complete lie.

Keep strong. Keep rational.

To end the pick me dance, you have to detach. Go no contact with her. Does anything positive come from you talking to her right now? As others have said, she treated you like dirt, disrespected your family and tells you that the OM is really a good guy.

You deserve better than a cheating liar who shits on her family. YOU have to recognize that. When you do, you will decide not to put up with it anymore.

You've gotten good advice about using the 180 to get you out of the cycle of the Pick Me Dance. Employing the 180 signals to you that you are putting yourself first...picking yourself over her.

The 180 takes practice. You may stumble a few times. It does work in creating a new state of mind.

TimelessLoss, thanks for that insight.

I can re-imagine the 180 to devoting energy for myself and my activities. That causes less conflict that the intention to enact the 180 and having to deal, subconsciously, with the fact that the WW did what she did. Because it is still pain what I feel.

You sound like my therapist.

Thanks.

The 180 should also involve not shielding her from the consequences of her bad decisions.

The Ladies of SI have a saying—“putting on your bitch boots.” Take no shit, pursue your own advantages, show her you don’t need her, blow up the affair—but never get angry because that doesn’t help and can be used against a male.

An update: she is in IC, as am I, and although she says that she wants to remain in M, there is a lot of work to do. I don’t even call this R.

Finally went NC, and I checked that AP was blocked on all platforms that I can see.

She has been more open and seems somewhat remorseful, yet I am now the untrusting one.

She still sees the time with AP as a perfect thing, so, still in the fog. Sadly, my finances right now put me in a bind, so we are living in the same place – she has changed her routine, and is doing the “I am so involved now” routine. We will see.

Surprisingly, I am detached enough now to minimize the flashbacks, and only the occasional song will trigger me. She stopped listening to her romance/infidelity music (while in front of me, at least) and recognizes that those are triggers.

Yes, I do think that I am doing a mix of the PickMeDance and of the 180. Example: She asked me to pick her IC, and I told her that is her responsibility and decision. Then again, I gave her a Valentine’s card …

I am also preparing stuff for the post-nuptial agreement, and have already a lawyer for the separation agreement, because in NC you have to spend a year separated before you actually divorce. That is cruel, and hard on people with limited resources, and brutal on the emotions.

Finally, I was the SAHP, in order to further her career, so now it is me, back on the job market, hearing about how I am so qualified yet lack experience :)

I am re-building my life without her. I still can’t trust her.

[This message edited by PeriodicZen at 8:57 AM, February 19th (Monday)]

The whole "my AP is still a wonderful human being" crap is still her rationialization hamster churning in her head. The moment she thinks otherwise is the day she has to look in the mirror. That's why she keep propping up that a-hole, to avoid looking in that mirror.

So you are in North Carolina. Have you talked to your attorney about suing the AP as well? It may go no where but if you have evidence then that may be enough to chase him off and ensure NC. His reaction to it might also bring out the real douche troll that he is and maybe the unicorn magic vaporaizes from your WW's mind and she sees him for who he really is.

Periodic I may have missed it but aside from her "perfect time" thoughts, what does she say about where she is regarding the disrespect and betrayal of you and the marriage? Also, I asked earlier and it likely got lost, at one time she had intentions of taking your child to the other country to meet her AP...

1. is this child biologically yours and hers

2. what if anything was her intent in doing such a morally absent act?

Just curious as to how one justifies these things.

Whadda nasty bitch

kgcolonel, we are the biological parents, and she's reconsidering the trip with the kid because DS will get in the way of her "research."

I guess she was thinking her fantasy of living there? Or vacationing there? I don't know. However, little kid as ADHD, and seeing him without the meds and having to take care of him for one day brought her little fantasy down to earth very fast. She's still talking about going there, alone this time. I can work with this, for separation and custody purposes.

She's still in the fog, and everything about the AP is good. I have tried to argue, explain logical points, whatever. My therapist told me to stop making excuses for her, and the 180 is basically that. So I did.

One little thing is that she has started apologizing more about it. Yesterday she only blamed me once for her A.

So, the law in this state requires that people start separation only after moving out, which is such a fucking mess, means that we are still living under the same roof.

But I got the passport and that kid is not living the country.