SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

AO, glad you are OK. I think your reaction to your WW is normal. She isn't your wife, who you married so long ago. She is a stranger right now. Realistically, any stranger who comes upon someone unconscious like that would also have called 911.

Her reaction is interesting. Maybe your health episode really made her see the results of her actions. This was probably a smack in the face to her about the damage she did to you and your M. So, as much as she probably felt bad about you being sick, a lot of her reaction and her breakdown over this, is her recognizing her own faults and her responsibility in this. I think Waywards don't like to have to see this type of thing (none of us do).

Your suggestion to SIL was correct, your WW needs to talk to a medical professional. You are not in any condition to help your WW with her emotional issues right now and people shouldn't be trying to push that on you.

Insightful post from HouseOfPlane. Explains a lot when you look at it from that angle.

the guy collecting tools at the bridge

This had my brain doing backflips trying to visualize this til I realized you meant tolls.

I'm glad you're OK. I'm familiar with multi-year betrayal so I know the effect it can have on you. At least your WW got you to the hospital. I don't know how things will pan out for you but I'll keep you in prayer. (I'm a prayer) Merry Christmas.

What a fantastic post by HouseOfPlane.

Several people were discussing the role of forgiveness in this process. I don’t tend toward being a particularly forgiving person. And I know I won’t forget.

AmbivalentOne

That’s because you think like an engineer. Engineers are forced to deal with facts and weigh the consequences. If they don’t the bridge they build will collapse.

Other people can afford to let their feelings take more control. In a university the people teaching in the college of engineering tend to be more conservative than people teaching liberal arts. No one is going to die if you misinterpret a poem.

If you were going to have an affair you would be honest with yourself about the facts and consequences. If you went ahead with it you would know exactly what you were doing.

That’s why you’re having a problem forgiving and can never forget. You assume that your wife thinks like you and went ahead and did what she did.

I'm not making excuses for your wife. I'm just saying that there is nothing wrong with you for not being overly forgiving.

[This message edited by Michigan at 3:04 PM, December 14th (Thursday)]

This had my brain doing backflips trying to visualize this til I realized you meant tolls.

The Gods of auto-complete toy with me.

Excercise, even if lightly.

Timeless, you are correct. Trying to reconcile WW's two lives has been bothering me since the beginning.

HouseofPlane, that was an interesting post.

As Michigan and Ohfor point out, engineers tend to think about things in a particular way. I'm not sure if that is because we are trained to think that way as engineers or if we became engineers because we thought that way all along. Either way, I tend to approach life as a problem to be solved by careful analysis of facts. Assumptions can and do occur along the way, but I like to think that they are limited to those that can be defended with rational and evidence based arguments.

But after reading HofP's post, I realize that I am constantly making assumptions about people around me every day. I can't get in their heads, so I have no real idea what they are thinking or how they feel. It sounds stupid, but that was kind of a revelation to me.

I know nothing about huge parts of my WW's life because so much is confined to the inside of her head. As you said, her affair was an enormous part of her life for close to a decade and I had no idea. During that time, the guy in the office next to me at work was probably less of a stranger than she was.

That way of thinking makes me wonder if a committed, romantic (ie, married) relationship is really viable for me. Knowing so little about the person you are supposed to be closest to kind of freaks me out. Somehow makes me feel vulnerable...like a spy in a cold war thriller. I am ok not knowing the stuff going on in a business partner's head. That is part of the challenge. But I am not sure I can deal with a significant other who is ultimately a black box to me. I wonder if this whole process has broken my ability to be married to anyone, not just WW?

On an up note, DDs will be coming back into town this weekend!

Glad to hear good news about DD.

hope you get to make good memories.

Does she know about your health?

No. DDs don’t know about my accident. They are finishing up exams this week and I don’t want to distract them from their studies. It will be obvious when they get home and see the cut. Someone asked if I have stitches...I do, but they are really tiny and mostly under the skin. If it heals with a scar I am going to look like Harry Potter.

It is interesting to me to see how many men are posting on this thread vs women.

A1. It’s way to early to make life long decisions about all future relationships. Not all women are your wife. Heck: even the wife you have had for the past 10 years isn’t the wife who had a horrid and disgusting affair.

People change. You have changed in the past month.

Your wife didn’t know who she was during the affair. Or her double life.

Her affair wasn’t real. Seeing the fall out of the affair with husband and her daughters...sitting in the hospital seeing the consequences on her husband...it’s a true cut.

I believe people change. Your wife is a walking example of both avenues of change. You know it to be true. You have lived and loved her for the past 10 years.

On a personal note...I haven’t lived with knowledge of a 10 year affair. I do not for a minute judge any decision you make.

I just hate the hatred toward your wife in this thread. It’s obvious your wife had serious mental issues. Normal people don’t do what she did.

Just don’t assume the rest of the world is abnormal because your wife wasn’t normal.

That way of thinking makes me wonder if a committed, romantic (ie, married) relationship is really viable for me.

From what you've described, I think the real issue is whether a committed, romantic (i.e. married) relationship is really viable for your WW.

It’s obvious your wife had serious mental issues. Normal people don’t do what she did.

That's an awfully big assumption there. Sure, what she did is not normal, but you can't just diagnose her as having mental issues. Mental issues wouldn't allow her to carry it out as secretively for 9+ years. She was calculating and manipulative, yes, very much so. But mental issues? That's a stretch.

That's an awfully big assumption there.>>

Ironic statement to make, given the pages of mind reader posts contained in this thread. Certainty that his wife continued visits to the grave to her never truly loving her husband. Her hysterical crying isnt genuine, she would have left for the OM. On and on it goes.

I realize that I am constantly making assumptions about people around me every day. I can't get in their heads, so I have no real idea what they are thinking or how they feel. It sounds stupid, but that was kind of a revelation to me.

Knowing so little about the person you are supposed to be closest to kind of freaks me out. Somehow makes me feel vulnerable.

A1, I think a lot of this gets to Mindfulness.

Imagine that you are at the center and there are concentric rings go further and further out from you. Those rings are your relationships. The closet are your most intimate, strongest relationships. Longest, greatest bond, strongest emotional connection. As the rings go out to the furthest point then it is one of practicality, everyday interaction, perhaps commercial or transactional in nature.

I do think that those outward relationship rings are characterized by assumptions. And that is not a bad thing. The natural assumption is in fact the purpose of the more transactional relationship. The person in the colored apron in a big box store is assumed to be someone who can help you. That is all that relationship needs. It only needs to be sustained until you get the product you came for. Yes, there is a real live person wearing the apron. Even in that transactional setting, mindfulness can cause you to look the person in the eye, smile, greet, acknowledge them as a person. Humanize the transaction.

So through all of the relationship "rings" we become accustomed to the social "grease" that makes the relationship "work". Those are the costumes and masks we wear that fuel social cues that drive the relationship. Again assumptions. Mindfulness creates a feedback mechanism that can check and revalidate that relationship. And adjust it based on the human factor as opposed to the role we see the person in.

Even the very closest relationships have some of these same elements. You have worn several hats...husband, dad, engineer, boss, colleague, business partner...all while you are being the exact same person. Folks interacting with you in any of those roles had certain assumptions about you based on your relationship history.

The very closest. most intimate family relationship are characterized by assumptions as well. Your daughters never had to wonder if you would provide for them, protect them, be present for them. It was implicit in your relationship, your everyday life with them. Dad was, and is now, a constancy that was always there (even when they didn't want you to be!). You were trusted. They could be vulnerable to you. Those two things are most characteristic of a loving, intimate, healthy relationship.

Learning about the secret double life your wife led makes you feel incredible vulnerable. The one person in your life who, above all others, was to have your back, turns out to have been not worthy of the trust implicit (and rightfully assumed) in the relationship.

You knew so little about her because you were deceived. She hid an entire separate life. Emotional capacity in one committed, intimate, exclusive relationship such as marriage is really infinite. But she did not give you any of that, because she did not give you all of that.

I'd caution you to be careful about judging your capacity to have a healthy, loving, intimate relationship based on your current marriage. Look at the partner you had. How she fulfilled the role she committed to have with you. Write your own next chapters in your future relationships. Your W's failure in the relationship has absolutely no predictive value for any future relationship you have.

OK, so lighter notes. I felt the happiness in your words about your DDs upcoming visit. Just days away. Outstanding for you and them. No surprise to me that you have protected them from the drama this week.

It was my post that mentioned the scar. I thought you might have come out of it with a bad ass biker/pirate scar. It would help you in your next business negotiation. But it is fine if we end up with Harry Potter...and tofu...as long as you lose the tofu sometime in the future. Because as I said before, you are already an SI Bad Ass.

Engineers and scientists are just as emotionally vulnerable as others, and equally susceptable to love and passion. Eistein could at once decode the atom and shed a tear over its destructiveness.

Don't allow this betrayal to sour you on relationships. That would be a double tragedy.

You simply had a f'ckd up wife, as have millions of others, including-- yes--engineers.

Take heart A1,

It's a big world. It may be hard to see now but in this big world are many, many women who are loving, faithful, caring, committed, and honest. They are capable of loving one man and one man only, from the "I do" until the grave.

Your WW chose not be one of these quality women. But she is only one woman. Please do not let her actions define you or define any future relationships you may have.

It would be a shame for you to miss out on the chance for love again.

And let's face it. You are a catch. Honest, hardworking, faithful, a good father. The list goes on. I am confident that you will have many opportunities going forward.

A1, I have no words to tell you, I wish I could buy you a beer and talk about sports... I am so sorry for your pain, your story has been one of the most painful to read.

At the same time, I wanted to add that in the many stories i have read here and other forums, your wife fixing or trying to fix her issues is quite rare IMO, she comes off as genuinely remorseful. IMO you are one of the few where the work the WS has to put in is well under way and successful in many regards. You truly have all options open to you. In all of this hell, do not forget to start on that path you wish to go down as many times we get stuck or find comfort in going only so far. I understand your position of creating a buffer and purging anything that reminds you of the hell.. but there is life after this and please take care of yourself and enjoy the holidays.

Cheers.

I may be one of the few but I do believe that A1's wife appears to be very genuine in her reactions. I do believe that she truly loves him. I do believe that she is remorseful and regrets what she has done. I think that feeling has become stronger since dday and the reactions from her daughters and the real chance of losing her husband over her affair. I am not saying reconcile or to divorce. That will be your choice and yours alone, A1. All I am saying is that I thing her pain, her remorse, and shame is very real. She has appeared to have been straight up once you showed her prove of the affair. I don't think her emotions are simply regret because she was caught. That is all I am saying.

The last couple of posts concern me from the perspective that they could be interpreted as A1’s WW has “earned” a shot at R based on what she’s done since the A ended independently of her wishes. R is not earned by the WS, but rather given by the BS.

Whether or not A1’s WW is genuine or not is a secondary issue at this point. If A1 decides he can reconcile the duality of his wife and consider R, it becomes far more relevant, but not until then. Her recognizing her colossal error and trying to make it better does not obligate A1 in any way, shape, or form to R. She singlehandedly broke the covenant of the M with her actions, A1 gets to decide whether or not to renew a covenant with her.

Edited to add: A1, glad to hear you are relatively unscathed by your misadventures in malnutrition.

[This message edited by Sanibelredfish at 10:57 AM, December 15th (Friday)]

That is why I said to reconcile or to divorce is A1's choice alone. He is in the driver's seat at this point and he should be. To reconcile will be because it is the desire of A1 and his good grace. She has lost the right to earn it. It must be given. What I am saying is that I do believe his wife's feelings and emotions now are genuine and remorseful in a truest since. That is all.