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Stevesn, reading the journal before deciding whether to R or D is a very interesting idea. I think a big part of the difficulty of A1’s situation is the potentially asynchronous nature of R between BS and WS; she’s had several years to heal and process and he’s still figuratively (and I suppose literally) bleeding out. Knowing what A1 knows based on his independent discoveries he can ascertain how honest his WW was with herself in IC about the A and it’s impact on her family. How well the facts match up would also be a good indication of whether or not she truly got it the first time. I think it is unlikely that she fully understood because she was the one holding her self accountable, but the diary should at least provide some insight. This all presumed that A1 is even considering R though...

A1 is an engineer. If you guys think he’s making a decision without assessing all data points you’re being silly :)

With that said who the hell knows how honest the journal even is. Perhaps his engineering instincts will recognize it as junk data and, as we all know, junk data is worse than no data.

A1, You have access to the raw data already courtesy of the primary research you did on that hard drive.

The journal might be helpful perhaps if you want to consider R down the road. It's more her story as told by her rather than real data though, and perhaps you can best hear that from her in MC with a professional present.

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I'm of the opinion that we shouldn't place too much stock into the veracity and significance of it. She pulled it out as damage control first thing upon confrontation. It was only after she realized you had seen the actual extent of what they were up to and how long that she really lost it. Those recovered files were the unabridged information.

You have plenty of time. I think your decision to keep it in the safe unread was in your best interest for the moment. You've been through a lot as you know.

How are you feeling? Eating??

A1

Made her write down everything that happened through the affair (that is what was in the envelope).

Point of clarification. It isn't a journal in the sense that she wrote things down as they were occurring. It is an after the fact account. Between 0 years and 2.5 to 3 years after the OM's death ended the adultery. We don't know the therapeutic context of why the counselor had her do this. A1's post with the above quote also said the counselor had her envision if he had done this to her. The assignments could have been related, or not.

Hi all. Having a nice time with the girls, so haven’t been online much. Yes I am still drinking my shakes. Still haven’t grown to love tofu though.

DDs initially insisted on babying me. But I eventually convinced them I am still functional. We have been walking around our property and playing with the animals. Girls have been riding the horses (no horses for me...never did trust them...I will stick to the tractor, thanks). Driving around town at night to look at decorations and lights. Fires in the big fireplace every night. Feels a little like the Christmases from my childhood.

I honestly haven’t thought much about WW or her affair. DDs have shown no interest in discussing WW either. We leave for Virginia Thursday. I will try to pop on once or twice over the next week to keep you updated.

I did have my second IC appointment today. No major breakthroughs but useful nonetheless.

Thanks for all the positive thoughts!

I don't know if I'm jealous or worried about your stoicism.

I don't know if I'm jealous or worried about your stoicism.

Hah, that's good!

I'm going to go with his DDs are loving on him, he is soaking it up, and loving on them.

You know A1, I'm going to say it doesn't get any better than that. Our adult kids have freedom of choice with respect to their relationship with their parents. It is clear to me that you weren't a "cats in the cradle" dad (google Jim Croce's song if you don't recall it).

ETA it is Harry Chapin not Croce!

[This message edited by TimelessLoss at 10:08 AM, December 20th (Wednesday)]

A1... I am surprised that you have not read the journal.

Is it because you have stopped shopping for more pain?

About your wife. She too is suffering. Her worst nightmare came true. Not only will she lose her husband but maybe her children because of her shame. Now...that’s true pain, almost suicidal pain.

SI, we all know what she did was wrong and she must face the consequences for her actions. The issues here are the children, they too are hurting by losing a mother that they once loved.

A1, you are still her husband and father and you must somehow make peace. Not only for yourself but for your children. You children will need their mom. Her shame will need to be forgiven ...not forgotten but forgiven. How can God forgive you if you cannot forgive.

A1, I had to face that fact and decided to R. Not easy but well worth it for the kids sake. Make peace for the family sake.

Something to think about...peace to you brother.

It is clear to me that you weren't a "cats in the cradle" dad (google Jim Croce's song if you don't recall it).

You won't find it if you google Jim Croce. It's a Harry Chapin song.

i had to face that fact and decided to R. Not easy but well worth it for the kids sake. Make peace for the family sake

His kids are in their 20s dude

I agree.

His kids are grown women, likely to be considering marriage themselves.

The ww betrayed her family for years, now the chickens are coming home to roost.

She probably feels like the lowest person on earth, particularly this time of year. A deep pain that will likely last for the rest of her life.

what the heck woundedhank. he needs to forgive a month after this happened? by the way, you can forgive and still leave the relationship. I see A1s interactions with his WS as nothing but peaceful.

You won't find it if you google Jim Croce. It's a Harry Chapin song.

Yeah, you know it didn't sound right when I wrote it. My excuse....err...explanation is a midnight post coupled with listening to too much Christmas music.

I hope you are doing better A1

I agree Sharkman. Completely

Sewerdak: I don’t think it is stoicism so much as avoidance. I am doing my best not to think about WW and the affair. I promised myself that I would not let her actions 9+ years ago screw up my time with DDs. Obviously not a long term solution, but definitely worth it for now.

Timeless: That song always made me sad. But it certainly makes you think about your relationship with your children. Hard to listen to it and not immediately want to give your kids a hug. Seems like they were so tiny just yesterday.

A1, I agree take a break and enjoy the Holidays with your children... all the best and put more logs on that fire.

Have a wonderful time at Busch Gardens! It's beautiful this time of year.

Merry Christmas everyone. Just a quick update. DDs and I had a wonderful trip! We returned home Friday (just missed some rain in Williamsburg, so good timing). WW dropped off presents for the girls and packed the refrigerator with food for Christmas dinner while we were gone. DDs and I all felt weird about that. We ended up talking about the whole situation for several hours. First time WW has been mentioned to any degree since they got here. DDs feel so betrayed by WW. Their anger doesn’t seem to be fading.

WW left me a very long letter talking about how very sorry she is. She made several lists. One outlines what she considers the reasons for the affair (rebellion, selfish desire for pleasure, fear of the responsibility of raising kids). Another lists why I am not Plan B (she actually called it “back up plan”). A related list enumerates all the good in our marriage since the affair ended.

Maybe the most interesting list (her “empathy list “) describes all of the emotions she imagines she would feel if I cheated on her. She certainly seems to know all of the correct words...but that still doesn’t mean she has any idea what this kind of betrayal actually feels like.

I don’t think the letter had the effect she was hoping it would. I actually am angrier now than I have been since dday. Reading all of those words only made me hate her and our joke of a marriage. The whole thing has been one giant farce. I hate what she did with OM and how she has hurt our DDs. I don’t see how I can ever get past this. She is worse than a complete stranger...she is a thief and a con man.

Fortunately I read her letter after the girls went to bed. I felt better after sleeping and we still managed to have a nice Christmas morning.

I hope you all have a great Christmas Day. Thanks for listening.