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I’ve been thinking about that letter and getting more concerned on A1’s part.

I’m now thinking about her ‘reasons’, which included avoiding responsibility for childcare. Complete bullshit. It really highlights the danger of therapy and even places like here. It allows them to regurgitate things that they find and never find the hard answers.

Someone with 18 (or to be fair 9) years to think about this really should have a more nuanced and realistic view of what happened. She was in love with him and she had no intention of ending it. Not only did it only end because he died but she went through significant mental duress after it happened due to the evidence that we have that she sought out councelling only after his death.

Sure, it takes things like being selfish to start and continue an affair. Avoiding the responsibility of life also surely helps it keep going. But these are not valid reasons. One doesn’t do these things to sustain a *nine* year affair. They are not things that allow one to sustain an affair. They are sugar water excuses.

As AO is, I’m a middle aged engineer. A big part of my frustration with work is people jumping to conclusions where the most likely (and usually most boring) answer is sitting in front of everyone. She started the affair because she cares more about herself than AO and family, she continue the affair because she fell in love with him, they stayed married because they both (or perhaps one) benefitted from the stability of home life and it only ended because he died. She sought councelling for her boyfriend’s death but at some point it transformed into focusing on current life. As part of that the therapist needed to give her some tools for coping with new life, and one of those was addressing adultery. She has not cheated since (though a poly would need to confirm this... it worth it at this exact point)

That is enough for AO to get started on. He has a year to make this sink in and for him to process it in whatever way that he sees fit. Additional facts will not help. It’s quite literally one of the biggest most shocking betrayals we have seen here. The poor dude needs to process it. It may take a few more months (and A1 - ABSOLUTE NO CONTACT IS REQUIRED FOR THIS PROCESSING TO WORK).

Hi A1

I also am glad that you were able to spend this holiday with your DD’s and have the quality time for you all to lean on each other and focus on all that is important for you as a family.

I’m perhaps though going to be “that guy” that some here has referred to that may give a different view. I’m not sure that’s true. However I just want to take a small detour from the absolutely valid points other have made here.

First let me say that A1 has absolutely every right to feel whatever emotions or even lack of emotions he does experience whenever interacting with his WW. They are completely valid and understandable and I am not at all trying to change them. I would probably feel similarly if found in the same position.

But what I personally don’t necessarily agree with is the concept that the WW is not “getting it”. Personally I think she gets it big time. I think she knows she is hanging by a thread in this relationship. I think she realizes the situation in which she finds herself is all of her own doing.

I think she knows she has greatly hurt the three people in her life that she should have always and currently does love and care about more than anyone in the world.

Personally I think she feels awful about this and most importantly, while I am not there, and as much as anyone can know someone by reading a (expertly described) blog told by their BS, I think she would do anything to let them all find happiness again, even at her own expense.

Now, do I think she knows the perfect path to do that? Absolutely not. And do I think she is hopeful that she can be a part of their lives again, yes I do.

But here at SI, there are WWs that are given advice by other WWs and yes even other BS’s, desperate to know how to atone for their actions and to help their Betrayed to heal and for the most part that is what I hear and see her doing.

- she has left the home when she has requested

- she has stayed away for almost 6 weeks without complaining

- she has rarely initiated contact

- she has tried to show her commitment thru her actions (working the animals when requested and cooking for her family without requesting to be with them when they eat), which can be difficult when essentially at the same time asked to maintain NC

- while I don’t know the full content of her letter, it contained several elements of what we ask Waywards here to convey to their BS’s: trying to answer the WHYs, show what they understand what the BS must be feeling, and try to explain why their BH is not plan B

Now i don’t think i see A1s wife here on Wayward Side, and she may be getting advice from other forums, but it’s impressive to me that she’s trying to take the steps she thinks are necessary to help the healing process.

Sure she must be getting guidance on this from her IC. But that’s another thing I see her doing right, she is in IC. How many times here do we see BSs suffer when their wayward wants to rug sweep and won’t even start IC.

Most here have read recently IHFs story whose WW wouldn’t take one step forward beyond rugsweeping to try and get him back even though she claimed to want to move heaven and earth for them to R. IC was a nonstarter for her.

What I am trying to say is that I fully understand A1 why reading that letter would have made you mad and cause you to relive DDay again. You have validly tried to remain as NC with WW as you can. As you have said yourself, the holidays were about connecting with the DDs as much as you could without the A ruining that opportunity and you have done that well.

And because of your ability to compartmentalize those ideas in such a way, any discussion of her infidelity brought the thoughts of her actions 10 years ago, and the related pain, sweeping back. They had been pushed down justifiably for days and weeks. Maybe I don’t have that exactly right, but it may be something like that, and it’s perfectly valid to feel that way.

I have 2 DDs about the same age as yours. In your shoes I’d be following your exact blue print for finding my way thru this awful set of circumstances.

And by what I say above don’t think I am saying I think your wife has been perfect in her words and actions.

Unless there are things you have not relayed from her communication she has not answered some important questions such as:

- do you really think I’m stupid

- tell me why you thought and i assume still think I am ugly

- you said I am bad in bed, what does that mean

- if something was missing from your life why did you not talk to me about it and try to let me help instead of giving it away freely to another?

- did you love Michael

- do you still love him

- is he the love of your life

- is he the best person you ever knew

- if he lived do you think you’d be him right now

- if he lived would you have been cheating with him another 10 years til today if not caught

- how will I not be competing with a ghost the rest of our lives.

All things that are very difficult for her to explain while still making you feel safe. But if you ultimately decide to try R, she will have to work through them with you.

I also think she is struggling, as is said here, to “let go of the outcome”. That will be an important step and probably the most difficult. But from what I can tell from this long distance, she seems to be a WW able to make that release. I think she already knows she has absolutely no control over the outcome of the mess she has created. I think she almost expects the D to go through.

When reading JFO threads, I often try to imagine what I’d be doing if I were in the WSs shoes. I ask myself what steps I would take, given the situation, and would I be doing the things the betrayer was trying to do.

In this case I think yes, I would. I would be taking the cues from my BS. I would stay away if that was what I was asked to do. I would be hopeful that I would be given the opportunity to show my BS how much they mean to me and that I can be in a happy relationship with them again, but I wouldn’t expect that chance.

I would do acts of service for them and show them I expect nothing in return. When I did get to communicate I would let them know why this was all my fault and why I feel their pain more than my own.

But yes, I would feel helpless like I think A1s wife feels. And I would also grasp at straws at times, even when trying to do the perfect thing. I’d be human. That is where I think this WW finds herself.

She’s lost everything. And she’s finding that the only one to blame is a person she no longer knows. And she wants so badly to blame that person. And what’s so damned frustrating is it’s herself. Although it’s a version of her that she no longer is. She can’t run away from who she was 10+ years ago. It’s enough to drive someone insane.

And she’s trying to figure out how to act and who to be and what the right path is and still live at the same time.

Yes I have been defending her and her actions here. And I’ll wait for the inevitable and probably justified 2x4s.

But that does not mean I am pushing R here. That is not my intent. That is A1s decision and which ever path he chooses I will think it’s the right one for him.

In fact I know that at least once and maybe twice in this thread I have mentioned that I think that even in trying R, it’s prudent to finish the divorce and put an end to a Marriage that for its first 10 years didn’t even exist and in the 2nd decade was a one sided attempt at reconciliation. I think R without recognition that the M was an illusion would be difficult. After D it may be possible.

I only hoped to show here my view of the situation, that A1 has the right to feel whatever emotions he is experiencing, as many here have validated. But that does not mean that his WW is doing everything wrong. Even if we laid a blueprint for Waywards to follow, as we come close to doing here at SI, and his wife took those steps exactly, he would probably still feel exactly as he does today.

I only am trying to convey that I see things differently with respect to WW than I am reading in some of the recent comments.

In a recent thread, when told they should watch the WSs actions more than listen to their words, a betrayed asked “how is that possible when you are maintaining NC?”

It’s a valid question. I think A1’s WW has done a good effort at that while for the most part respecting NC

- caring for the animals when asked

- again, cooking an important meal without expectation of partaking

- and perhaps most of all, maybe saving A1s life when she found him

I haven’t heard thru A1s writings that she has asked for consideration of anything in return. That’s what I would hope from a remorseful WS.

I don’t think she has been perfect, but if she were someone we were supporting on WS, she would be hearing from others there that she is one that “gets it”. Of course not perfectly, but at least on that side of things.

At some point A1 will have to decide if he wants to give her the opportunity to show these things to him, and if so, under what communication structure that will happen. There’s no rush. As he has told us, the D process takes a year and we are only 1.5 months into that so far.

A1, all that means is that you have open an almost unlimited number of possibilities of how to proceed, and in some ways that’s more difficult. But the hard truth is that most betrayed don’t get that same set of opportunities from their waywards.

I truly apologize if what I have written has caused you any pain. I hope that the format of SI allows us to write truthfully what we think and allows you as the reader to take whatever helps you. I’m perfectly comfortable if that means you will leave everything I have said here behind. We are all different people here and only you know what’s useful to you.

I’m wishing you a strong trend toward happiness in the new year.

Take care.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 7:42 AM, December 26th (Tuesday)]

Wonderful response, StevesN. Wonderful response. 👏👏👏👏👏👏

hope you continue to enjoy time with your daughters.

have a happy new year.

Take care of yourself. And do some things for you and your daughters. Build some good memories for you and the girls.

I haven't posted much on A1's thread, mostly because I find myself unnecessarily angry about this situation.

So, sure, his WW is doing all that she can now to make this right. Let's just say that I agree with that. At what point do we completely disregard what is happening on her side and truly think about what it might be like to be A1?

I don't think I need to go too far into depth on this one, a thirty-thousand foot view should do it.

Every memory he has had for almost 20 years is tainted.

She made a farce of him and his life for almost 20 years.

He has to face staying married to someone knowing with certainty that she doesn't think of him as her "one".

...I mean, come on, a life like this is the stuff that early heart attacks are made of.

[This message edited by xhz700 at 9:48 AM, December 26th (Tuesday)]

There are many stages A1 will go through on this huge cluster F.

A1 said the following yesterday:

"I don't think the letter had the effect she was hoping it would. I actually am angrier now than I have been since dday. Reading all of those words only made me hate her and our joke of a marriage. The whole thing has been one giant farce. I hate what she did with OM and how she has hurt our DDs. I DON'T SEE HOW I CAN EVER GET PAST THIS. She is worse than a complete stranger....she is a thief and a con man".

Pretty straight forward where he's currently at with all of this.

A1 it's ok to be mad, and in fact holding in all of your anger isn't healthy. Vent. Get it out. Please do NOT bottle it up.

WW left me a very long letter talking about how very sorry she is. She made several lists...Another lists why I am not Plan B (she actually called it “back up plan”)...

Based on what you've described, it sounds like that statement may be true in some narrow technical sense. For you to be the backup plan, she would have to view the A as sort of a test run, and, if that didn't work out, then she would stay with you. Given her AP's lack of income, there was never really any chance that she could leave you and stay with him. Her plan - her ONLY plan - was to carry on with her AP and have you fund the entire operation. After her AP died, her slightly-revised life plan was for you to continue to fund her life of lies and deception; the only difference was the absence of her AP. Maybe eventually she developed a new life plan - to try to have a real marriage for a change - but that, if in fact that's what happened, only developed later.

very good insight Foley

A related list enumerates all the good in our marriage since the affair ended.

But that's kind of meaningless as it only ended because AP died.

I do think your WW is extremely remorseful and wants her marriage more than anything. But unfortunately she may want her "marriage" more than she wants her DH's happiness.

What if the OP asks her if she cares enough about him to let him go and be happy without her? Or if she would prefer him to stay with her at the expense of his happiness?

Not saying that to push D - just saying to really examine the WW's concern for the OP.

A1-

I don't think that selfish/entitled people have as much insight as your WW has been credited with on this thread.

Bottom line-she had a decade long LTA. She chose to continue to hide that from you long past it's end and took your decision away from you. She may have received terrible advice from her IC, but she had choices and she certainly took the easy route.

Whatever her efforts and motivations- which none of us know with any certainty-the results are the same. You spent a decade in a marriage with a wife who had a boyfriend. And then you spent more years in the dark with a partner who held a huge part of herself away from you.

If she worked on herself that is a good thing for her. And for your daughters. It has as little or as much bearing on your decision as you want it to be.

The phrase-- the only way out of infidelity is through it-- is true. It will piss you off but its true. And there are some things you thought yourself incapable of feeling or saying that may pop out hereabouts. It sucks that she reached out on Christmas and I do feel empathy for her, but you have the right to make your choice now. She has made hers and now she must await yours.

I respect and agree with those who have stated the positive steps your WW has made to include accepting your boundaries. Keep being honest with her. You say that you felt weird about her filling up the fridge. IMO that is an extension of her helping with the animals. You may be able to separate the action from it being hope/good will builder for her- but she may not. If you want to increase your distance, I would consider finding another helper.

You have stated that you wish to step out of your daughters relationship with their mother, I would encourage that you all remember that whether you continue your relationship with your wife or not- she does remain their mother. And I hope that in time they can salvage their relationship with her.

I can empathize with your situation. I am one here who believes your wife is truly remorseful for her actions. I also think from what you have written she is at little risk of cheating again.

My wife also made horrible choices and hurt me in the worse way. Hers was short, only three weeks, but I believe had they not been caught I could have been in the same LTA situation. Maybe not as long, but longer than three weeks nonetheless. She woke up fast, like a bucket of cold water on her head. We both made mistakes in R, but she is horrified by her actions

Still, that for me doesn’t change the hurt and anger I feel even to this day after she was exposed to our family and friends. I am one who just can’t get past it.

My point is you could take her back and probably be fairly safe. But if it is a dealbreaker like it was for me, all the work, the remorse, the pain of being exposed doesn’t change what she did. It all comes down to what you can live with. The ball is totally in your court and you have choices now. You didn’t then.

If being with herit isn’t what you want she is just going to have to live with that. She brought it on herself.

It’s your life. No shame in walking away. If you think you could be happy again with her, that is your choice also

These situations just suck. I feel for you

Your wife is trying to salvage her comfortable life.

She’s human just like everyone else. She hade it made until you discovered her prior Porn Star past.

@ 30% of your marriage she belonged to her AP 100%.

When she brought him into your home and defiled your marital bed it wasn’t just about the affair. It was a large FU. She was doing this to YOU.

Even though you didn’t know it at the time. Hence the letters vilifying you. The last 10 years or so was a coverup.

So 60% of Your marriage was all a lie.

Assuming the first 10 years or so were clean?

Pretty staggering when you look at the percentages.

Make no mistake anyone who R’s must eat the “shit sandwich”.

Your problem is it’s so large and petrified with age.

I can’t imagine. It’s beyond comprehension.

Take care of YOURSELF.

Contrary to her letter, you were plan B. Plan A died in an accident.

The AP was Plan A? How so? She had 8 years to leave A1 and set up a new Brady bunch family with AP. He was the side piece. The side piece is Plan B.

A1, I too think your wife is remorsefull....that’s a good thing if you ever want to reconcile but can make divorce harder. It’s way easier to divorce a WS that’s still cheating and blameshifting and justifying. The WS leaves you no option when the abuse is ongoing.

I feel for your difficult circumstances. Just know that whichever route you take, you’ll have support here on SI. I get the sense you’ll weigh your options and whatever decision you make will be well considered. Enjoy the holidays with your DDs.

A1 was plan B.

My guess is that once the kids got older, the lovers may have pulled the trigger.

She would have D A1, taking with her a good chunk of A1's assets.

Speculation, of course, though reasonable given the circumstances.

[This message edited by MidnightRun at 5:42 PM, December 26th (Tuesday)]

Removed.

[This message edited by Drumstick at 5:52 PM, December 26th (Tuesday)]

The AP was Plan A? How so? She had 8 years to leave A1 and set up a new Brady bunch family with AP. He was the side piece. The side piece is Plan B.

Almost daily romance for 8 years

AP was a SAHD so there was no way for him to support them.

If there had been things would have been different.

A1 was the checkbook. Nothing more.

A1 wrote this after he confronted her:

Eventually, they decided they were in love... She said it got to the point that they were fantasizing about running away together.

I point this out only to say that it has no bearing on who was Plan A, who was Plan B.

Her Plan A was what she had as her status quo: an adultery partner for kicks, a husband as an ATM/utility.

Her Plan A was all about her. Plan A seemed to end when the vehicle went off the road killing her adultery partner and the rest of the family. We don't now how long he remained in her heart. As long as he remained in her heart her Plan A was operative.

Bottom line: She robbed A1 and his daughters of an authentic life for nearly two decades.

Twenty.

Years.

Plan A.

There is only one Plan A in this whole story.

Her. She was Plan A.

A1, OM, her family, his family were all relegated to various other positions. Number or letter them as you like. I am sure the positions shifted from time to time.

But the top spot always belonged to her. What she wanted was priority #1.

Sex with the OM for years.

Therapy after he died.

Keeping the secret from A1 for years.

Notice the common thread weaved throughout her life. It's her. What benefited her the most, in the present moment, given the circumstances.

And now what benefits her the most? Staying married. So expect her to act accordingly.

Note: I will concede she has truly changed if A1 divorces her and she says she understands it. That his healing is the priority.