SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I need advice. Is it wrong for me, as the BS, to expect her to accept accountability and be transparent and 100% honest? I want to see her phone, email and private messages on Facebook because that's where all the communication takes place. She tells me that's unreasonable and controlling because she's already told me that the A is over and she is not communicating with him.

Not only is it not wrong, you shouldn't even have agreed to counseling unless she agreed to accept these consequences. You can't negotiate her demonstration of remorse. Either she is or isn't. A counselor's opinion is meaningless. It's a waste of time and money.

She's daring you to divorce her. I'd take that dare.

[This message edited by badmemory at 11:20 AM, September 26th (Tuesday)]

I want you to understand something. The more you detach, man-up and stand up for yourself.

You need to be prepared. Your wife is going to find this "new you" hot as hell. I know because when I stopped participating in my spouses drama bull-sh**. He suddenly found my new confidence so hot.

So be ready.

Every single one of your bullet points is spot on. Yes everything you listed is what is needed for reconciliation. What your wife did was blameshifting in MC.

Don't stand for it. Be the strongest ever! I know she is your wife, but she isn't a prize.

The difference between a remorseful spouse and an affair spouse is extremely distinctive. You do not have a remorseful spouse. A RS jumps through hoops because they are so thankful for R.

Please read the current thread about "he got his high school girlfriend pregnant." So much great advice in that thread.

I am very reluctant to support reconciliation with wives acting like yours is. Wives cheat for very diffeeent reasons.

I had a friend who had a predator go after her. She had a 6 week affair with this predator. When her husband found out. She cut ties immediately. Bent over backwards to be transparent. She was immediately remorseful. She was wrong on every single level for cheating. She owned her wrongness. She made the appointment for herself at IC. Went for months and months. Her phone was never in her hand again. It was on the kitchen counter. No passwords. Her spouse had access to everything. The man she had an affair with was just like your wife's AP. He actually had 3 other married women on the hook along with his pregnant wife.

I would also not consider R, even if she did what you asked, until she leaves that job...this is a terrible place for her to be and there is no way to ever really begin to trust as long as she is in that job.

She stated the OM has been screwing other women where she worked. Including the HR person. The place of business is an absolute immoral cess pool. I've never seen anything like it.

I have! This, unfortunately, is not uncommon. My WW worked for the phone company and it was considered the norm. I think if you work at one of these places, it almost is expected of you. The peer pressure to fit in, the sexual innuendo is constant, the gossip, the pecking order, those trying hard to convince you that everybody does it, and if you don't believe it you are naive.

It's a toxic environment.

Timeless:

There is a tremendous collective predictive ability here to gauge her next steps.

Yes, I am still amazed at the collective wisdom here. You will get all angles from folks that have been through it and have seen hundreds of stories. And yes, there are definite patterns that repeat.

I'm in a slash and burn mentality today, so I really like Stevesn ideas. Make Sherman's March To the Sea look like a cub scout hike. Scorched earth!

VAR at all times is required!

Wow that had to have been hard. It sounds like you handled it like a PRO. I think your on the right track. I would suggest you start talking to lawyers and seeing what it will take to end this marriage. I would have her served and let her see what life is going to be like without you there.

I am really sorry your going through this.

C

36

You are completely on the right track.

I think it can help you if you stop to think of the absolute worst outcome from this situation. Imagine yourself sitting on a bench 6 months from now. Where would you least of all want to be?

For many married people the first thing that pops into the mind is that the worst outcome would be divorce.

I want to challenge that. I know of something that I think is immensely worse. I think sitting on a bench six months from now knowing your wife is still having an affair is the worst possible outcome.

REMAINING in infidelity is IMHO the absolute worst possible outcome.

With that in mind I want you to agree on a destination; a goal. That goal is to get out of infidelity.

Imagine a peak way in the distance. That peak is called out of infidelity.

There are two decent roads leading to that peak. The roads are called reconciliation and divorce. For the initial part of the journey these roads run parallel and it’s easy to switch between them. It really doesn’t matter what road you start off on if you go past the relevant milestones and keep moving.

The speed you move at is within your control. Go too fast and there is a risk of crashing. Go too slow and there is a risk of getting stuck in the mire and mud. Best thing to do is pick a route, get a steady pace and make sure you are on the correct path as you move along.

Your wife? Well… If you chose R you would prefer she come along. You can’t force her, but with your actions you can make going along with you an attractive option. But if she decides to stay put… so be it. Imagine your marriage like a rubber-band and you both stand within its boundaries. She stands still while you go in your direction. The pressure might make her follow – but the pressure might break the band. If it does, then YOU KNOW. You know you don’t have two paths out of infidelity. To reconcile it needs both of you and if she’s not moving with you… well… you only have that single path left.

Even if you want to R then your first actions should be to learn of divorce. What would D look like for you? What is the cost? What are your options? Get good legal advice on how to do divorce. You need that advice anyways to clarify the insurance issue.

Then tell your wife this:

You are free to be with OM. You can go to him, have sex with him, walk around town with him. BUT NOT AS MY WIFE.

If you want to be my wife you need to commit to the marriage and to reconciliation. Me I’m moving on out of infidelity. There is a loophole for you to join me, but I am moving out of infidelity with or without you.

Until and unless you clearly tell me in a clear verbal way that you are committing to the marriage and my terms I am simply assuming you have decided to remain in infidelity and thereby not being my wife. I am therefore initiating the process of terminating our marriage.

And then you walk away and make yourself a sandwich or whatever.

She tells you it’s all your fault:

I am sorry you feel that way. If we were working on the marriage we could address that issue, but since you have elected to carry on in infidelity there is no need to go there.

She asks about divorce:

I am too emotionally attached to this marriage. I have therefore asked my attorney to address all aspects of a divorce. I asked he ensure it’s a fair settlement.

Then start detaching and moving on.

Talk openly about the affair. Expose it, always letting people know whom she’s having an affair with.

The friends that knew? If you encounter them then let them know that you think they are despicable people for encouraging your wife in her infidelity.

Get the affair in the open and make it very hard for your wife to remain where she is.

Do this and I am certain you will reach your destination – either through divorce or reconciliation – in a reasonable time and in reasonable shape.

Is it wrong for me, as the BS, to expect her to accept accountability and be transparent and 100% honest?

You know that it is not wrong. If you need some confirmation from others, you've certainly gotten it here.

Your only path forward is to end all contact with her and file for divorce. Screw any MC for now - it will continue to go pretty much like last nights session and is a waste of your emotional energy.

How many experienced BS's here have told you that moving forward with divorce is your only real choice here? We are not just saying this for effect. We've seen ugly stories like your hundreds of times and we know that, in the end, it's the strong stance of ending the marriage is the only thing that leads to any kind of resolution.

We may not know you personally, but we still care for you as another human being crushed by their WS. Our advice is time-tested, and we say file for divorce ASAP.

36, good for you for leaving the MC session. You shouldn't subject yourself to that.

I am still trying to figure out how you had the balls to even let her back. This story, after 36 years, disgusts me.

Twisted, Stevensn and Sharkman have pegged it. Your wife isn't worthy of you and I would lawyer up and have her served. I would also 180 and maybe encourage her to leave since she is a danger to you and everything you have ever built.

Also remember while you were suffering, she was probably still seeing the OM and doing the same stuff. The mind movies will never end and unfortunately you have to find your own level of peace.

She is using you right now to keep her life on track while trying to enjoy the other guy for free.

I am one of those people who physical infidelity is the worst. I couldn't get over if I was you but it seems like you could try and got slapped in the face.

She is not remorseful and keep in mind that remorse isn't always enough anyway.

Move forward, protect yourself legally and you now come first.

Also as Stevensn said, inform the other women's husbands at work where all of these pigs are that their wives may have been getting tapped by this guy. Then inform the enablers of your wife's affairs husbands that their wives were encouraging such actions. They may be cheats themselves

Where do I get information on the 180 posters have mentioned?

sending it to you now PM

You will not see remorse (if ever) for a good couple of months or so, maybe longer. She is still in the affair and right now she see you are the enemy but at the same time her retirement plan.

File for a D ASAP, the amount of disrespect she shows tells you she is no longer wife material. There's no way you will be able to trust her or believe her after all of this. I think she crossed too many lines and now you have to think of your own self respect, can you live with yourself taking back someone that treats you like this?

Where do I get information on the 180 posters have mentioned?

Two keys for the 180:

1) It is intended as a way for BS to stop digging a deeper hole of pain & despair and begin healing by taking a positive step forward for THEMSELVES!

2) It is not a strategy for reconciliation.

36, here is the link to the 180.

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/faq_bs.asp#FAQ11

I too compliment you with how you handled it at the MC-session, you demonstrated goodwill and integrity by going and strength by recognizing and not accepting the crap you were served and leaving. Well done!

Your wife, however, is not on the same page as you. She is under the spell of this OM and that toxic workplace. There she gets fun, physical satisfaction, drama, centerpoint of attention, status, gossip, etc. She sees you as wanting to take that away, negativity, a burden, etc. We here are on your page and side and understand you, she however is not and in a self-chosen other world. Get this, we all think OM is a POS, she however sees him as highly desirable because all women at work want(ed) him, and she got him too!

You are in a battle of evolutionary psychology and might not know it. If you want to win, but I would divorce her, you should acknowledge this and demonstrate more strength = respect. Sorry, that workplace is an ape rock.

There was another poster here who talked to the boss of his WW OM, that boss was understanding and fired OM in front of him. An idea to try that, good talk from man to man with boss man (with leverage of a lawsuit)?

I have talked to the OM's boss. He's sleeping with her too.

There is really no way to deal with that workplace other than attempting to sue on my wife's behalf for sexual harassment and a hostile work environment. But I can't officially do that without her. I can't sue the OM for anything unless it turns out that he knowingly passed on an STD or AIDS.

Is boss married? Contact her and the other husbands.

What magic does this guy use? This sounds unbelievable that all the women sleep with this guy and don’t care that they all know.

Talk to a lawyer before you decide you cannot sue.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 1:40 PM, September 26th (Tuesday)]

I have talked to the OM's boss. He's sleeping with her too.

I have to agree with Sharkman, run as fast as you can before you end up with some STD that sticks with you forever.

Damn, what a shithole that workplace is, SI thinking along with you and looking for leverage brother! Good that you are strong and in action mode!

Things like this and workplaces like that just infuriate me. You have to hit them where it hurts. The general public loves stories about hellholes, and journalists like stories that sell, maybe convince or pay a journalist (newspaper, internet) to do some investigation and write a juicy danger story about bad workplaces (= bad publicity), for sure the husbands of the employees working there will make their wives stop working there and customers and suppliers do not want to do business there anymore, that will hurt that filthy company and might even be a precursor to legal action from labor government inspection or other husbands with their wives.

Exposure is always a good thing according to SI, strength brother, we are with you!

Its really a tragedy there isn't a like button on this site. Sharkmans post was exactly what I was thinking when you said her boss is sleeping with her too. I cant for the life of me see how you could come back from that when she is clearly unremorseful. I would be thankful your at least now seeing and getting the truth so you can move on.

C