SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

1. Too many variables. Too complex. Unclear goals other than "what I need". If you need to divorce her, then divorce her and make HER win you back. No rules, no nothing. Judge her on her actions.

Sharkman, that's exactly what I intend to do.

ILINIA, thanks for your post! I'm not in the states, so some things do not apply (e.g. insurance).

But I will definitely talk with my lawyer (waiting for him to return from vacation) before making final decision.

I was along going to add that she seems to be all talk at this point. If she's serious about R then at the minimum she needs to come up with a plan that at a minimum includes"

-Go NC

-Change Jobs or report herself to HR

-Read How to Help Your Spouse Heal After Your Affair

-Go to IC (a female IC :-)

-Stop hiding, be truthful, write out a timeline, and answer your questions

Quick update.

Sent e-mail about A to OBS of AP#1 to her work e-mail (couldn't reach her through her work phone).

Got "out of office until 16.08.2017".

Damn.

Good thing I didn't try her personal e-mail, since she's probably on vacation with that POS.

[This message edited by DarkHoleHeart at 4:43 AM, August 10th (Thursday)]

How are you progressing with your plan to D but stay together?

Still have to talk with lawyer about this.

The problem is that she's now doing everything she can to prove that she wants to be with me, that she loves me, found good IC for herself (WW dragged me into one MC session, where we told our story - and there was not a single moment when I wanted to shout at her (not WW) - "what kind of BS you are sprouting?" and who told my WW to work on herself) etc. Chipping at that concrete block with my line on it.

Also I believe that now, that she is out of initial shock, it might be possible to D without a fight in the future.

Note, that I'm not in R mode, far from it. I'm just observing her actions. To be in R mode I must feel something. Still no news in this area.

To answer question (unasked I think) - yes, I think it would be possible for me to R with her, if she does the work and my feelings return even after everything she has done.

I think I can feel 2x4 heading my way. NoMercy?

I don't remember the sequence but so she slept with 2 guys and you had DDay1 and you were supposed to be healing and she was supposed to be Remorseful and you were supposed to be trying R and she then slept with OM3 in her office multiple times and you had DDay2.

What could she possibly do differently from last time that would ever make you believe that she would be safe going forward?

Remember this is a woman that you wrote this about just a few weeks ago.

Interesting bit about WW relationships with current AP...

Today I got STD test results.

One positive. I notified her.

Essentially, she is trying to get him to come over and fuck her...

Puts this all in perspective, doesn't it:

Came home from work tonight all so clingy and sweet... Probably feeling some guilt or something ... until next dick comes into view.

Oh yes!

She is laying her soul bare to AP#? on the phone. And I'm listening almost realtime.

I essentially got all info I needed and never dreamed I will get.

She married me knowing that she doesn't love me.

I'm a perfect lover (), but she doesn't feel passion any more. For 10 years.

Had 3As (probably 1 ONS and 2 As).

OK, now they got together.

Me and my sister (on hangout, I'm reporting to her) are getting popcorn out.

And

So, as I mentioned in the earlier posts, I listened to her conversation with AP (her side only over the phone and then both sides when he came over to her office (which she was afraid to leave because I track her location)). I still have to re-listen to whole conversation, it started 4:30PM and finished 9:30PM, so not 3h, but almost 5h (some pieces are missing).

The main things I got from it:

- she married me knowing that she doesn't love me any more

- she thinks she was good mother until our twin daughters turned 1. After that, not so much.

- she owns the blame for affairs

- I'm choking her

- she is the initiator at least in current A (it looks like she has feelings for him, he - not so much).

- our sex problems were because she had no feelings for me and she doesn't understand/need sex without feelings (hm, and what about AP#1 whom she f... in WC during her office party?)

- watching sex with horses turns her on (I knew this, but thought that it was in the past, when she was still riding, she never mentioned it again), never done herself

- AP#1 was married

- I know identity of AP#3 (married too, have no idea how to find his wife)

- She tried to get him to do her even knowing that I had STD (I think that would be good wake up call to him if I need him to testify in court)

You are doing good, DHH.

Stay strong.

To answer question (unasked I think) - yes, I think it would be possible for me to R with her, if she does the work and my feelings return even after everything she has done.

But I do realize there are a lot of IFs in that sentence. Truth is, you're a smart guy. You will do what's right for you.

And I am always for R if there is hope it can be achieved.

I just hate to see you set yourself up for hurt again if you start to feel something for her.

I don't remember the sequence but so she slept with 2 guys and you had DDay1 and you were supposed to be healing and she was supposed to be Remorseful and you were supposed to be trying R and she then slept with OM3 in her office multiple times and you had DDay2.

Timeline:

Started with AP#1 sometime in beginning of August 2016. One kiss during work assignment, attention from him, night at the hotel on 18th.

Started to talk with AP#2 the same day (and same day - her google search "how to get out of infidelity") - he contacted her on FB, she needed somebody to talk to.

3 more fucks with AP#1 during lunch breaks (no meetings after work) in the remaining days of August. She felt she was in love with him (started feeling like that sometime after the first kiss). She got ego kibbles, he got nice hole. She "broke up" with him at the end of August, early Semptember (so whole A in the space of some 20 days)

Talking with AP#2 led to them kissing and then fucking on Sep. 09. 3 more nights at the hotels and 5 car fucks until DDay #1 Oct. 22.

Then, false R. ~6 months of attempted rugsweeping and TT, then "coming clean" (confirmed sex with AP#2) and then several months of false R.

DDay#2 Jul. 25.

She pursued AP#3 and fucked him in her office (it actually was the only time she had sex with AP#3). Two days later she asked him to come again, but he didn't bring condom, so no sex.

She didn't initiate contacts with AP#1 and AP#2 (confirmed). She did with AP#3. I asked, why? She said that at that time I felt like shit because of what I have done, I felt like you were controlling me, I probably did it just to prove to myself that you cannot control me, I was tired of everything, I was such a mess. It looks like she was intentionally destroying everything.

What could she possibly do differently from last time that would ever make you believe that she would be safe going forward?

I'm asking myself (and her) this question quite a lot. I don't have an answer yet.

Oh, but now I see what remorse really looks like (I'm still skeptical though if it is real). It is like day and night from what she did in false R. She cried several pools already (the fact itself doesn't really matter, what matters is what triggers crying). She's taking initiative - books, IC, searching for a new job (didn't quit her current job because I told her not to (no good if we D)), etc.

"I don't ask anything from you, just let me love you, let me prove to you that you can love me again".

She's taking initiative - books, IC, searching for a new job (didn't quit her current job because I told her not to (no good if we D)), etc.

That is a good sign. There maybe hope yet.

I just hate to see you set yourself up for hurt again if you start to feel something for her.

Hm, do you mean that if there's DDay#3 then I will be hurting again? I know what effect DDay#2 had on me. It was like kind of instant healing. I even told her recently "You know, I have kind of forgiven you already - because I need that to move on without you. But if we end up trying to R, then I doubt that I will forgive you ever".

But if you mean that if my feelings return, then I will be hit by the pain caused by her past "adventures", then you are completely right. It would be impossible to love her without being hurt by what she's done.

I gotta admit, you're more advanced than me in your thinking. I was thinking about DDay3.

But you're right, how do you start feeling again and not be hurt by what she has done.

I wonder what she would say she'd be feeling if you instead had done all of this to her.

Stay healthy. Sounds like there's a lot of thinking you got ahead of you.

"You know, I have kind of forgiven you already - because I need that to move on without you. But if we end up trying to R, then I doubt that I will forgive you ever".

I think that applies to a lot of us. I'm gonna have to quote you on that. Well put.

Divorce.

Divorce.

Divorce.

I wonder what she would say she'd be feeling if you instead had done all of this to her.

Stevesn, I think that she kind of understands what I was going through and even feels something similar (and again, I'm saying it with a dose of skepticism, since you can never know with a waywards). I'm judging it from the way she is crying - during false R it was tears that said "you are hurting my feelings". Now she cries like I did - it's not tears mainly, it's that feeling like you have enormous hurting hole where your heart should be, feeling like you are gasping for air but can't get any into your lungs because of the knot that your insides are tied into, don't know how to describe. "My world is gone" kind of crying.

Of course, I cannot be 100% sure that it is really because of "what have I done?!" and not of some selfish reason.

[This message edited by DarkHoleHeart at 12:11 PM, August 10th (Thursday)]

Quick update.

Sent e-mail about A to OBS of AP#1 to her work e-mail (couldn't reach her through her work phone).

Got "out of office until 16.08.2017".

Shit hit the fan for AP#1. More about it tomorrow.

What a way to leave us hanging!

Omg, please come back and let us know what happened!

ok, sorry, maybe it came out a bit too dramatically...

I wrote an e-mail to OBS of AP#1, with basic details of affair.

I warned her that the first thing she will feel she must do - is to contact her husband and ask if all of this is true, and that it is not the wisest thing to do - that she should try to verify what I said using her own channels, get her ducks in the row, etc.

I also outlined basic rules of confrontation - don't reveal your sources, don't reveal what exactly you know and don't know, let him do the talking, etc.

She did exactly the opposite, as expected.

AP#1 visited my WW at work (they work in different departments) yesterday, clearly in some shock, said that his wife got an e-mail, presented printed copy to my WW, sat silent while she read it, then said that his wife expressed desire to meet all of us. My WW replied "Don't expect me to lie to her" and that's about it.

OBS didn't contact me. I'm kind of angry at her for being so stupid and showing him my e-mail, but on the other hand I understand her - she's where most of us have been (but I wish somebody would have outlined rules of engagement for me before I confronted on DDay#1).

Today I wrote her e-mail stating that I don't see any value in meeting with four of us, and that civilized conversation in such case would be unlikely, so - unproductive. However, she could meet my wife (with me or alone) and that I wouldn't be surprised if WW returns with a black eye (but that I don't approve of physical violence).

No reply from her so far.

I decided that if she doesn't contact me (or my WW) directly, I won't be sending her anything else. I have given her all the tools and now it is her own business to use them (or not).

(But curiosity will be killing me )

Now, just to prevent all "She still works and is in contact with AP?!!!! WTF??!!!":

- yes, she still works with AP#1 and AP#3 (different departments)

- she didn't leave this job because I told her not to (but I suspect that she's looking for another anyway - maybe because almost everybody knows that she f....d in the office?)

- I don't want her to be in NC with either AP#1 or AP#3, I'm more interested in how she behaves when she is forced to communicate with them (actually, only AP#1, AP#3 has almost no connection with her professionally) and what restrictions she imposes on herself.

Ah, one more development - AP#2 recently called my wife's work phone (evening, day off, I'm with her). At first she didn't recognize him, he introduced himself (I saw her expression and posture change) and asked her if she still works where she did when she was with him, she answered that she has nothing to talk about with him and hanged up with hands shaking. A bit later she said she was terrified of what I might make of it. Most probably he was trying to contact her to help him out with something related to her job.