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honest 50/50 custody and division of material assets. She tried to find anything wrong with it, but really couldn't, except from "what holds you from walking away once D is finalized instead of giving me 6-12 months" - to which I answered "Nothing, just my word. And you know I never broke it. So you just have to put yourself into my hands".

DarkHoleHeart

If the BS is staying for the kids I always recommend divorce and living together. In general people don’t seem to like the idea but I think it’s great. It takes the “kid card” out of the equation. The kids don’t even have to know that anything happened.

Why should the WS have the security of a marriage contract when they broke the contract? Demote them to girl friend because they flunked the wife test.

Plus I would find it much easier to R with my ex. There would be less reason for me to bring up what she did because she paid a price. I would resent her if everything just went back to how it would have been if she never cheated.

People say that the old marriage is dead and you have to build a new one. Well then make that official. Plus her probation wouldn’t be an empty threat. If she messes up again you can just walk.

What drives me crazy is when people live together for years and have kids. One day they decide to get married and then one of them cheats. Living together with kids was fine before but now they must remain married. Why? Just go back to the way they were before. Upgrading to married was a bad idea.

[This message edited by Michigan at 1:10 PM, July 24th (Monday)]

IF you want to see the effect of divorce papers multiplied then don't get cute and expose. If she does give AP#1 advance warning then you divorce her. While that sucks atleast you're not floundering around like some jerk without knowing what is really going on.

Actions, not words.

You are looking at doing all of this in order to retain some power, but the truth is that your power has been exerted. There is NOTHING left to do. It's time for her to show up and you to judge her on her actions. You retain the power of walking away at any point. This is not a chess game.

Like next time you have her in person, ask her for her phone and then ask her to compose a written letter that you will then drive and deliver to their house while she waits in the car. Like you said before, if she's going to cheat she's going to cheat. Time to measure where her heart is.

Do exactly what I told you this evening. If she hesistates then she's full of shit. (and also why does she feel lost these past few months, in your own words AP1 was her true love... she wasn't lost there?!)

Please do this, you need to put a stake into the heart of this crap. Please please please don't get cute at this point. Decisive action.

Can I get on this and get a mans view, stories on profile, but I've tried so hard with my wS and just crushing me....a contractor in UAE doing filth, I'm chronically ill trying to act "as if" can't keep no for finances, illness, etc.....I'm beyond hurt and angry. He's tech savvy, still unremorseful, I'm not working, dependent an breaking...in the meantime he supports but there's a cost. I've never cheated, responded poorly to so much, trying to do better but he's in denial, getting more mean....blames me now. I'm breaking. I don't mean to get in a guys group but I know men and women are different. I have reason to believe he's being shady with a future divorce as he essentially shakes a Coca Cola bottle then watches it explode. ...with so much on me. I fall for it every time. I'm still in marital therapy, read, just so stupid to let it effect me. Drs say this stress keeps me sick, can't go in remission, so angry I keep trying....just in a cycle. I need guy advice and now...it's the ghost of me.. I didn't do anything wrong, respond like crap but nothing.... I'm sincerely breaking and it's truly effecting me now. It's like living in terror waiting for shoe to drop.

Tears and words doesn't matter to me. 6 months was her idea. Changing jobs and camera in the office was kind of her idea (but I mentioned both previously while in false R in context "what people do to help their BSs heal")

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see...that's what bugs me. She asking for a 6-12 month stall on the D...essentially for "another chance" after she's already had THREE chances. In those 6-12 months she can possibly do the work for R...or simply appease you while she get her ducks in a row. She also throws in some tears and some sweeteners (office cam, job change) to push you to consider it. My main problem is SHE is driving the ship. That's why I threw that lopsided D idea at you after she said "she'd do anything". Because, as you saw, when you proposed it she pushed back...so she's clearly not willing to do "whatever it takes".

Camera in her office? Lucky you...you can play cop everyday watching her work...until she leaves the office of course. New job? Cool...but she can get a new AP at the new place just as easily as the last one. And neither of these address her own lack of self control...i.e. what is she going to do to fix herself.

I'm not breaking ur balls...I just don't want to see you get manipulated into backing off. Less than 2 weeks ago you were in scorched earth mode....now you are seemingly waffling while she is seemingly (perhaps passively) calling the shots.

Simple formula:

Her: "I'll do anything"

You: "I want x, y, z, etc."

Her: "ok agreed...thank you"

If she says anything but yes..then she is full of crap. If you think my lopsided idea is silly...ok...tell her you want a postnup drafted up. Make THAT absurdly lopsided...tell her she'll get her 6-12 months if she signs it. Postnups are largely useless but, again, it will test just how "willing to do anything" she is.

^^^ What Sybo said.

She could be full of BS, it's possible she is starting to get it. It comes down to how certain you feel about that fact. I think it would be good for you both to have her do without the security of M for a while. She quit that job, time for her to retrain and reinterview. Honestly I like your "Let's Divorce and then Date seriously" strategy. You could throw in 6 months sexual exclusivity on your part FWIW [Like you were married or something]

This deal is a gift to her, actually. You don't need her permission to D, and that's a fact that you could make very clear to her. You can leave at anytime. If she spouts BS, then of course go to option "B": divorce like most people do when infidelity is involved.

[This message edited by antlered at 6:51 PM, July 24th (Monday)]

I really think you need to consider the implications for you of delaying D just because it suits your WW. As others have said, she has already had a six-to-twelve month period to ‘prove’ herself, and what she proved about herself makes me wonder why you would want to continue the marriage. I am sure she wants it to continue, nobody likes facing consequences, but for your own long-term good you should think long and hard about how closely you want to be legally tied to her.

My reason for saying this is that you have spent the recent months firefighting and playing detective as your wife lied and cheated multiple times. Your thoughts and emotions have been entirely occupied with this horrible, undeserved situation that your wife dropped on you. You may not have had the time to think about a different version of the future, in which you have divorced your wife and found a new woman with whom you can build a fresh future, one that is not weighed down with all of the baggage and damage of the last year.

If you visualise your life in five and ten years’ time, what seems more attractive to you: you being with your wife, in a damaged and spoilt marriage, or you with a new woman, one whom you can hopefully trust and love without feeling any taint of infidelity?

Obviously, you are concerned about your kids, and that cannot be ignored, but you will always be a good father to your kids regardless of any other circumstances. What worries me here is that you may end up in a shell of a marriage, in which you will never really love, trust, or respect your wife again. That would be terrible for you. And that is what makes reconciliation so hard.

Many people plod onwards, in the remnants of marriages that have been gutted and damaged by infidelity, but how many manage to rebuild anything close to what they had before? And that is what worries me about your future if you agree to this new ‘probation’ period idea. Where is it going, and what can it really hope to achieve? Will your wife being on her best behaviour for a year erase what she has done in the past year, to the point where you love her and trust her again? And as another poster commented, a camera in her office merely means you end up like a prison guard on constant monitoring duty. Don’t you deserve something better than that? Wouldn’t it be good to have a new woman in your life who doesn’t need monitoring 24/7?

I guess my point is that if you remain in what’s left of the marriage, with your WW trying to do the impossible and erase a year of horrible actions and revelations about her character, it prevents you from being able to move on and find someone that will be much healthier for you emotionally, because you can love, trust, and respect them without the need for new jobs and 24/7 surveillance. If you stay with your WW, you may never experience those positive feelings for her again, and that will be a sad and debilitating thing for you.

This is just my two cents, and please ignore it if it is no use to you, but what I have written here are the reasons I think you would be best to go ahead with the divorce and use the months after that to figure out what you want from life and for your future. In those circumstances, if you decide that your wife is the best person to be your life-partner for the next few decades, then you can stay together without being married. If things become great again, you can always re-marry. However, if after the divorce you feel like things with your wife are never going to return to the way they were, you will be free to spend some time single, to get your head together, or to pursue a relationship with a new woman. That situation offers you the most flexibility as you plan what you want to do with the rest of your life.

You deserve to be happy again and love again, but you limit your options if you remain locked into what is left of a marriage that has been so badly damaged. Getting divorced and then seeing how you feel does not mean you will not continue with your wife, you will be free to do that, but it gives you much greater freedom if you decide that she is not the best person to spend the rest of your life with. Your wife may not like that, but after enduring her year of reckless selfishness, you need to be thinking about yourself.

M1965, it's not the first time that your view and analysis of the situation is spot-on!

I had time to think about life as divorced father, and it looks like much better perspective than years and years of R (and which has high probability to fail). But I'm willing to make some sacrifices for the kids' sake (note, I'm not willing to sacrifice my life and live in a shell of a marriage).

So, my current plan is actually what you (and several others) suggested:

1. Divorce her.

2. Give her some time period (6-12 months) to prove that she is even worth considering to R with (note, this is NOT R yet, I'm in detached mode, observing her, etc.).

3. Start R or separate.

4. If R is successful, remarry (4-5 years?).

It looks like now she is scared shitless to lose me. Don't know why - did she suddenly realize that I'm the love of her life, or because of some selfish reasons (easy and secure life, reliable husband)? (read all that with slight irony)

I tried to explain to her, that she has to quit trying to keep me tied to her. That it is no longer under her control - that there's nothing she can do to keep me if I'm determined. And that the only thing she can control are her actions. Etc. etc.

Sorry that I cannot address all the thoughts, expressed in all posts :(

Without SI I would still be groping blindly around and heading straight for the next DDay unprepared.

Hi DHH,

Thanks for your kind words. I think your plan sounds very good. It puts you in the driver’s seat of your life, and gives you the freedom to choose where you want to go. I think your attitude to making some compromises for the sake of your kids strikes a healthy balance; you will try and make things as good as possible for them without turning yourself into a human sacrifice. Your kids would not want to see you becoming a shadow of your former self, that’s for sure.

I think your timeframe is also good. I certainly don’t think you should consider remarrying, even with successful R, for at least five years. That will be good for both of you, and will emphasise the value of marriage to your wife.

There is another thought that has occurred to me after reading so many threads here, which is that the first person a betrayed spouse has to reconcile with after the discovery of infidelity is themselves. It can take months, and even years, before all the swirling and conflicting thoughts and emotions inside us can start coming back together and coalescing into a settled view of what has happened to us, and what we will be comfortable with going forwards. Effectively, it is like we have been shattered, and we have to pick up all the pieces and glue them back together before we can even consider moving forward as the new person that we have become. That takes time, and your plan factors that in.

I think it is wise that you are going into this with no preconceptions about which way it may go. Just let it be what it is and observe dispassionately. It is the only way to get a true impression of your wife’s remorse and commitment to change.

Your wife’s motivations may be a complete mix of the elements you mention, and more. Some cheaters, particularly serial cheats, need a safe harbour to return to in order to feel secure enough to venture off and have their adventures. Take away the harbour, and when their latest fling burns out, what do they have left? Let’s face it, a woman can find thousands of men who will be only too happy to have sex with her and send her on her way afterwards, but it is much, much harder for a woman to find a man who will put a roof over her head, clothes on her back, food in her fridge, and tend to her when she is ill. Perhaps your wife has realised that she may be losing that latter kind of rare man for the sake of being used by a bunch of casual sex merchants who don’t give a damn about her. Whatever brainfart propelled her into her year of free love, the price of free love is clearly higher than she ever conceived of.

It is good that you have made your statement of independence to your wife, for both of you. It lets her know where she stands, and for you, it must be life-affirming to state that you, and only you, are in control of your destiny. If you were on your knees, begging her not to go, she would be walking all over you. It is your confidence and independence that have rocked her world. I think there is a lesson there for every betrayed spouse.

You didn’t start this, but you have taken control of it very well, in a way that many of us wish we could have done when we were going through our own bumpy journeys, wondering what lay around the next corner.

More power to you, DHH. I wish I had been like this when I was going through the mill.

[This message edited by M1965 at 4:07 PM, July 25th (Tuesday)]

the first person a betrayed spouse had to reconcile with after the discovery of infidelity is themselves.

Whoa. MI1965. Once again you have blown my mind. Great job.

As for DHHs plan I agree with what you say.

I have just one thing that keeps nagging me and I can't wrap my mind around it

Now after a really tough fight with a WS's infidelity and the long hours over weeks months or potentially years hammering out a D agreement a BS like DHH is finally free of any responsibility to a really disrespectful WW and what are we going to do? Tie him down for another 6-12 months?

Now many BS's may take years before they are ready to interact in any dating situation anyway. And perhaps DHH that is your personality and if so that is great.

Others may have been suffering so long that they may be starving for connection in more than just a friendship way and want to start interacting immediately.

Most are probably somewhere in between.

So while giving WW a chance to win his heart back as a safe "GF" starting from scratch is certainly a worthy endeavor (esp for the sake of the kids), I think DHH needs to understand the ground rules before fully committing to this timeframe.

Will they both be able to date others during the first 6 months? Only him and not her? Does he now have to still monitor her in order to be able to make an informed decision in 6 months? Are they instantly "exclusive"?

That's a heavy burden to place on a BS that is finally out from under the specter of infidelity.

I am not sure I have the answer. But I do know that while R would be a good result, I don't want DHH to find himself a few years from now having agreed to commit and resenting that he didn't take the time to explore other options when he was free and clear in D.

I'm not against the concept. I'm just unclear and worried about the details.

Anyway, no rush. There's time to figure it all out.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 3:23 PM, July 25th (Tuesday)]

If I ever got divorced, and might consider dating my wife anew, but been a known cheater in her previous relationship ( mine) wouldn't fare well with me. I would certainly be shopping around first for one than would be more responsible and loyal to a marriage.

And maybe bigger tits. (j/k, don't get all worked up)

Stevesn, here's how I imagine these 6-12 months. We continue to live together as a family (well, kind of), so basic rules apply - no dating others during that time - I would consider it cheating (applies to both of us).

If during that period I feel that I'm more interested in dating other women than being with my wife, then result is clear.

I also do not consider that period as "dating my wife" - don't know how to call it, actually.

I don't think I will be ready to date anyone else in just 1 year. And if I did, then it wouldn't be healthy - I suspect that I will have many trust issues that would be hard to bear and that I will need time to work on them.

I do not plan to monitor my wife (because I do not care). If this need returns, then it would mean that I started to care. The danger is that I'm very curious person, so I (and her) might confuse curiosity about what she's doing with caring. I'm actually would give a lot to find out what she's doing and talking during her days now (but that's not curiosity probably, that's more need to know if she's consistent in her "I want to be with him no matter what it costs me" attitude when not in my presence, to make informed decisions). (While writing this, vicious plan to do just that crystallized in my head - and without any illegal snooping involved)

twisted, the problem with dating others - how do you know that this person is more reliable than your WW? Maybe she's a cheater and we all know what cheaters do. So how do you determine it? Do a background check? I doubt that anyone would like that. However, statistically speaking, you have quite good chance of finding one that didn't cheat, as only 17% of women cheat (if I remember correctly).

“I don't think I will be ready to date anyone else in just 1 year. And if I did, then it wouldn't be healthy - I suspect that I will have many trust issues that would be hard to bear and that I will need time to work on them.”

I think you have great insight into yourself. More than I had. I still have trust issues, which was my motivation for coming to this forum. What I have learnt is that any new relationship is effectively a gamble. We all go into them hoping for the best. After being subjected to infidelity, we are bound to be more sensitive to it, and suspicious of it. However, while we may look for red flags, we must be very aware for any signs that we are punishing a new partner for the sins of a previous, cheating partner. Nothing can be as dispiriting for a person as being held accountable for the actions of a previous, wayward partner. There is a legal principle, “Innocent until proven guilty”, and although it can be a struggle, it is something that every BS needs to bear in mind. Although I am still on my own journey, trying to figure out how I ‘work’, I have resolved to give any new lady in my life love, trust, and freedom. If I have any issues, I will talk them through with her, making clear that I have certain sensitivities because of what has happened to me, not because I think she is a bad person, or that she is cheating. And if she really cares for me, I know that she will understand, and she will hopefully do what she can to not cause me any unnecessary worry.

If I started dating a woman whose lifestyle was full of red flags, I would know she is not right for me, and I would have to withdraw. It might be a shame, but it would mean that I was then free to try and find someone who was right for me. And the thing is, I have several female friends who have been cheated on, and much of what they say has sounded exactly like what I feel, so I know that there are plenty of women out there who hate the concept of cheating because they have been on the rough end of it. I sometimes wonder if I shouldn’t try and find someone like that, so that we can get together and form a mutual reassurance partnership! The bottom line is, there are a lot of lovely, decent, trustworthy women out there, men too, and we brothers and sisters of the Legion of the Betrayed must never punish them for the actions of the waywards who have blighted our lives.

“I do not plan to monitor my wife (because I do not care). If this need returns, then it would mean that I started to care. The danger is that I'm very curious person, so I (and her) might confuse curiosity about what she's doing with caring. I'm actually would give a lot to find out what she's doing and talking during her days now (but that's not curiosity probably, that's more need to know if she's consistent in her "I want to be with him no matter what it costs me" attitude when not in my presence, to make informed decisions).”

I think you have a good handle on the issue of monitoring because you care versus keeping yourself aware of what your WW is doing. In your position, I would definitely want to know if my wife’s actions were matching her words, particularly in a ‘trial’ year that might eventually lead to reconciliation. I understand completely why you do not want to make a grand show of your curiosity that your wife will be aware of, because as you say, it could be misinterpreted by her. However, you are clearly a bright guy with many methods for making sure you are not being taken for a ride or duped, and I think it would be wise to use them, quietly in the background, so that you remain aware of what is going on around you. The most important thing is that you will know why you are doing it, and that is the only thing that matters. Without wishing to be cruel, if your wife misinterprets something, that is her tough luck. If it makes her complacent, or think she has some power over you, it may make her easier to catch out in any lying or wayward activity.

“(While writing this, vicious plan to do just that crystallized in my head - and without any illegal snooping involved)”

I like your style! I wish I had your talent for this. Seriously, I do think you should keep aware of what your wife is doing, for the sake of your decision-making, not out of any ‘love’ or other motivation.

“twisted, the problem with dating others - how do you know that this person is more reliable than your WW? Maybe she's a cheater and we all know what cheaters do. So how do you determine it? Do a background check? I doubt that anyone would like that. However, statistically speaking, you have quite good chance of finding one that didn't cheat, as only 17% of women cheat (if I remember correctly).”

Honestly, DHH, to hark back to what I said at the beginning of my post, I think every betrayed person develops a ‘spidey sense’ which will give you a gut feeling about the integrity of a new partner. At first, we don’t ‘know’ a person, but that comes with time, discussion, shared experiences…I guess the best way to look at it would be to not commit your heart until you get to know a person, and to feel like they have a good level of integrity and love for you. It’s not as if we are going to be down on one knee proposing marriage to a virtual stranger that we have dated twice (unless they are absolutely amazing, and even then, that would not be wise!) There may be no guarantees in life, but I do think that because of our experience with infidelity, we are probably going to make better choices the next time around, because we know the red flags to watch out for. In that respect, we are actually safer and better-placed than people who have not gone through infidelity when it comes to starting a new relationship. Which is probably one of the few positive things that comes out of infidelity!

Stevesn, here's how I imagine these 6-12 months. We continue to live together as a family (well, kind of), so basic rules apply - no dating others during that time - I would consider it cheating (applies to both of us).

Ok I gotta admit, I was thinking you'd live apart like normal D parents and she'd pick you up for dates.

Not sure what I think about this in light of the kids. I mean, will you even tell them that you divorced?

Obviously kids want both parents living with them but I wonder what effect it will have on them having D parents who are not actively trying to reconcile or "dating again" living with them. It's gonna be a weird experience for them.

And How does 50/50 parenting work in this case? 3 nights a week you go out and 3 she goes out? And Sunday night you pretend you're a loving family again. But doesn't going out for her sorta defeat the purpose of proving she's "all in"?

I'm sorry I'm so skeptical because I honestly am a softy and love a good guy marries girl, girl sleeps around, guy D's girl, girl proves herself worthy and wins him back kinda story but I'm just struggling to see how this does it.

Plus, what if it's not dating but if in 4 months you just want to hook up and have sex with someone. No strings kinda thing which as a single D man you have the right to do. Nothing resembling a commitment. While you may not be able to imagine that now, guys have needs too ya know. So what does that mean to the plan? Are you now a cheater too if as a divorced man you had a ONS?

Confusing to me.

I understand you are trying to work this out for the 50/50 split. I'm just trying to process it all.

But I do trust MI1965's sensitive instincts so if he likes how it's set up you're probably ok.

So, my current plan is actually what you (and several others) suggested:

1. Divorce her.

2. Give her some time period (6-12 months) to prove that she is even worth considering to R with (note, this is NOT R yet, I'm in detached mode, observing her, etc.).

3. Start R or separate.

4. If R is successful, remarry (4-5 years?).

If your plan is to start the R process then don't bother divorcing her first. That's silly and melodramatic. All that symbolic crap about "the marriage we had is dead" is just silly drama, jr. high school stuff. Cheaters are already horribly immature. Don't lower yourself to that level. You already have 1 child in the marriage, your WW, don't become the 2nd or the whole thing is doomed. The goal is to get her to come up to your level and act like an adult. No silly symbolic gestures.

Your plan is good, just nix step 1.

I don't want to plan too much yet, because we have not agreed on D yet, I don't know what crazy ideas she might have next day (maybe she tells me she won't sign anything and to go to court), etc.

If I give her X months to prove herself to me, then I will be bound by my promise, even if we are legally divorced. It was not the paper that kept me in marriage, it was what I swore to and believed. I will not be single in my head. So no ONS and no "fulfilling needs a man might have".

50/50 parenting? Not while she tries to prove herself - we just carry on like "normal" family. Kids do not need to know (at least yet) and I believe that we might keep the things civil. Of course, kids will notice that their parents aren't touching, kissing, etc. and it won't be good experience for them. They already know that we are "arguing" and that it might lead to divorce.

She fails probation period - we separate for real (I buy a house nearby or something - I would prefer that to staying in current one and she won't be able to buy anything for herself) and we start 50/50 parenting.

If you want to R then that is a promise. It may not work but you can't half ass it either. You have to go all-in or don't bother. You have a drama queen on your hands. Cheaters are emotionally stunted people. Children. That means you have to be the adult for both of you. Sure it's not fair but if you want her to grow, change, unfuck herself, and become the wife and mother she should be then that will be your role through that process.

Affairs happen when an emotionally immature spouse acts out/rebels/throws a tantrum and has the coping skills and maturity of a child. It's akin to self-harm like cutting. Actually it's far worse self-harm. Something about their lives isn't what they dreamed it would be so instead of dealing with that like a mature adult, which they are not, they deal with it like a spoiled child. Good luck getting them to admit that. Spoiled immature children aren't known for admitting faults in themselves.

you have quite good chance of finding one that didn't cheat, as only 17% of women cheat (if I remember correctly)

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I'm thinking it's about twice that.

M1965 is correct, now that we know what to look for in a cheater, most of the time it becomes obvious.

While I like consequences and will not dismiss your plan I do want to try to articulate my concerns succinctly:

1. Too many variables. Too complex. Unclear goals other than "what I need". If you need to divorce her, then divorce her and make HER win you back. No rules, no nothing. Judge her on her actions.

2. Somewhat contradicting that is the fact that you have very clear rules right now in other areas. It basically boils down to "let's see how she acts for 12 months". That could EASILY be misconstrued as "just don't fuck anyone else, or let me find you fucking someone else" for 12 months. Her pausing her serial infidelity doesn't mean that she is a safe partner.

3. While saving your marriage for the kids is admirable, there are a lot of pitfalls with this plans and it COULD make it worse for them. After all of this work if she goes back to her boyfriend, no matter what your intent is now, the fallout WILL be worse.

Percent of married women who have strayed at least once during their married lives 14 %

Percentage of women who admit to committing infidelity in any relationship they’ve had 54 %

Data from the google top results. Various research, done more than two decades ago suggest even lower percentages.

However, since this is quite sensitive topic, I suspect that real numbers are significantly higher, and I don't think that this includes EAs.

Reading your thread, I am not quite sure if you WW is out of the fog or is a good candidate for even thinking about R, which may be why you are leaning towards D.

I did want to pass along what I learned when I spoke to the lawyer about D then R. It is my response to another poster who posted the question awhile back:

Heck no, not stupid because many of us have thought the same thing. After my dday in 2013, I created a thread that was pretty much identical to yours. I, too, wanted to divorce quietly and continue to live together. Because isn't that the natural consequence of an A? At the time, it sounded like good plan, but was a bit of false logic.

Anyway, I even met with a lawyer to talk about my options including this one. I give her credit for being patient with me because I was all over the place! I don't know if you are looking for more emotional support from us, but I wanted to at least pass long what I remembered from our my conversation with a lawyer. Disclaimer: This was just her opinion, so I know others will have different opinions and so forth, but I wanted to share because it helped me think about it beyond my need for emotional detachment. Plus, this was about two years ago, so I don't remember all the details, so bear with me...

- First, doing anything quietly isn't possible in this day and age. Our divorce would be public record and searchable. Our employers, bankers, the kids schools, accountants, and etc would need to know. She felt that if we went this route, that we should plan for it to be public knowledge almost immediately and that it would get back to family, friends, and our kids.

- If we D, we would need to still need to go through the entire process. This includes documenting all financials and coming to an agreement on how things were to be divided. Also, we would need to agree to child support, spousal support, who gets primary custody, and what the visitation schedule would be for the kids. In her opinion, if you are looking to divorce, but continue to live together, you really aren't putting yourself in the best situation because you are NOT REALLY planning for a divorce where you end all relations and become independent of that person, instead you still want to live together as husband and wife, but don't want to be bound to the title of husband or wife.

- Realize there are benefits that you may lose that you aren't aware of at this time. For example, let's say my WH and I agree on all of the above, we are on somewhat good terms and we believe in good faith that we are going to try and work on it. Maybe we get so comfortable that I decide to cut back my hours or become a SAHM. Well, my insurance may not cover me at part-time or I have to get more expensive insurance, therefore, I lose my flexibility because I don't have the option of his insurance anymore. She also mention other items that we can potentially lose out on because of the legalities on being divorced vs married, such as social security, being a beneficiary, wills, and such. I don't remember the details on these, but I remembered thinking that maybe I hadn't thought this all through yet.

- She said I need to think about all the "what if" and worst-case scenarios....what if WS cheats again, what if WS gets abusive, what if it IS a deal breaker after three years, what if WS conceives a OC, etc. Well, in that case you are in a totally different mindset. You may not want your children with WS at the agreed percentage any more, so that you want to change visitation and child support amounts. You may feel that you are entitled to more spousal support because you left or switched jobs due to things going well at the time. Or that your spouse is entitled to less spousal support from you because they got a different job. Unfortunately, you shot yourself in the foot because you already agreed to the terms and the judge will not be sympathetic to hear that you want to revisit the agreement because you found out that the spouse you already divorced cheated or did whatever again.

- From her standpoint, if you are going to D, you need to do it with the intentions you are done with the marriage and no longer wanted to be with, talk to, or live with WS because you shouldn't half-ass a divorce. If I needed to understand what just happened, to take time to figure out what I needed, and ask questions, then I should do a postnup, because that would give me some of the security I was searching for.

- Also, she said I did not have to do anything, because my reasons will still be valid to D whether it is one week from now or three years. SI seems to support this notion as well, that not making a decision IS making a decision.

In the end, we did a basic post-nup that I stated that I would receive spousal support for the length of our marriage and that I would not be on the hook to ever give him spousal support. I think the post-nup process helped to clear away any fog for WH because here we are in a room with two lawyers determining the conditions in case we divorce which was now a very real possibility due to his A.

What I took from the conversation with my lawyer was that (1) I didn't need to make a decision today because D is always on the table (2) if choosing D realize you have one chance to get it right and you need to be laser-focused and not be distracted about a slight possibility that you "may" get back together.

The post-nup process accomplished a lot of what I was looking for and to hammer in the seriousness of the situation. Each state is different, so it may not be an option for you.

[This message edited by ILINIA at 9:01 AM, July 26th, 2017 (Wednesday)]