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Newest Member: Nbbb

Just Found Out :
Is this considered cheating or just betrayal?

Topic is Sleeping.
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 BadK4rma (original poster new member #83380) posted at 6:50 PM on Thursday, May 25th, 2023

I found out a few months ago when my husband was showing me a TikTok video he liked that he was also watching and liking half naked women. I asked him why he liked it and he said he didn’t know why that was in his liked videos. Scrolled down some more and there were a few more videos women he liked. Asked again and more lies. We got into a fight that night and he didn’t understand why I was so upset.

The next day we didn’t really talk and that night I asked him how many women’s videos he was watching and liking and to see his phone. He told me not many and when I looked that was a lie. There were a little over 100 videos liked of half naked women, some were from the same several women. I was pissed and extremely hurt by this. I then asked him how often was he watching these videos and if he was going to their pages to watch more. He told me it wasn’t an everyday thing and he only went to a few pages, not many.

I got his password and downloaded his data. I looked through 6 months of watch history and this was obviously a pattern with him. He would watch these videos and go to several women’s pages to view more videos, behind my back. He was doing this at work, at home, even before we went to sleep while I was in the bed next to him, and even when we were at the airport and on vacation. He was doing this for over a year.

I’m the type that wants to know everything, even what you were thinking. So I went through some videos and asked him exactly what was the first thought was that came to his mind when he saw it. It was really hard to hear that he thought these women had nice butts, boobs, private areas. He tells me that’s the only reason he looked, it wasn’t anything more. He said he thinks he became addicted to it and didn’t want me to find out. He panicked when I found out and that’s why he lied. He never followed any of these women or commented or sent any private messages so he never viewed it as cheating, it was like looking at a magazine he said. He said there was nothing I did and he finds me attractive and he is happy with me.

We’ve had several long talks and he is seeing a counselor and I know he is truly sorry. We have been married for 18 years and he has never watched porn or stared at other women while we were out together. I just don’t understand why he couldn’t stop other than it was easily accessible. He has deleted his account and has stopped using his phone a lot at home and spends more time with the kids or myself. I have full access to his phone and accounts.

However, the damage is done. None of these women have my body type which makes me extremely self conscious and all I do is compare myself to these women. I feel like he is no longer my safe person in this relationship which makes me sad on a daily basis. I’ve now got anxiety and I’m extremely aware of all women around us when we go places and when he is on his phone. I get triggered a lot.


I just started therapy but sometimes I wonder if I should have this strong of a reaction to this and why I can’t let it go.

posts: 4   ·   registered: May. 25th, 2023
id 8792496
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Diva19 ( member #83232) posted at 8:14 PM on Thursday, May 25th, 2023

I'm still kinda new here but I will say I can totally understand what your saying and I will say my husband has/had a porn addiction and our counselor told me it is a form of cheating it's what he called his affair partner. I actually went to a marriage counselor that had a addiction to porn so he could relate to this subject personally. Also my husband liked to look at women half naked as well and when I use to ask him about it he would say it's not cheating I just look at them so I often wondered too what he was thinking and of course I never looked anything like them and did the same thing compared myself to their body types. I hated that feeling of him looking at them and watching porn. It definitely ended up that after his affair he doesn't watch as much or ever now look at photos on his phone and has come clean that he was just wanting something else and not me at that time he would rather watch porn than have sex with me. It's a tough thing to feel so I understand where your coming from I would treat it as a affair partner even if it's only on the computer or phone. As in my opinion and from my counselor. Take care of you most important and try and keep communicating how you feel about what he did.

posts: 86   ·   registered: Apr. 20th, 2023
id 8792506
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BearlyBreathing ( member #55075) posted at 8:47 PM on Thursday, May 25th, 2023

Does it matter? It’s a bit of semantics. He’s sneaking around doing something that offends you. And he’s doing it at work, which is likely to get him fired if anyone finds out.

He is sorry you say- but that he also didn’t understand why you were upset. I think he doesn’t fully understand how offending and hurtful his behavior has been to you— both from your self-confidence and from the violation of boundaries and trust. And the amount of time/energy he has spent on this instead of you and your family. Did any of these cost money? There’s that betrayal too.

Are you in MC? A place to hash this out with a neutral third party might be helpful. And ultimately YOU have to decide what you are okay with and what you are not okay with.

Me: BS 57 (49 on d-day)Him: *who cares ;-) *. D-Day 8/15/2016 LTA. Kinda liking my new life :-)

**horrible typist, lots of edits to correct. :-/ **

posts: 5980   ·   registered: Sep. 10th, 2016   ·   location: Northern CA
id 8792516
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swoned ( member #54719) posted at 9:05 PM on Thursday, May 25th, 2023

.

We have been married for 18 years and he has never watched porn or stared at other women while we were out together.

Gently,
It sounds like he's been watching lots of porn. Wether they were half naked or not doesn't really change it.

D-Day 6/22/16Ended in Divorce 07/02/18Remarried.

posts: 221   ·   registered: Aug. 19th, 2016
id 8792519
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 BadK4rma (original poster new member #83380) posted at 9:16 PM on Thursday, May 25th, 2023

Thanks for the replies.

No, he didn’t spend any money or join any other sites to watch anyone.

I think he understands more about how I’m feeling now after having several long and hard conversations and me being brutally honest about how much this has hurt me.

I believe him when he says he will never do this again but then at the same time I never thought he would do this to begin with so it’s a mental battle.

We are both doing individual counseling. I was waiting to see how that went. I literally just started and I’m new to all of this and don’t always like to talk about this with strangers.

I know this journey takes time but I really need someone to talk to and an outside perspective and learn coping strategies.

posts: 4   ·   registered: May. 25th, 2023
id 8792521
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The1stWife ( Guide #58832) posted at 9:42 PM on Thursday, May 25th, 2023

At the frequency he was viewing these videos it may be hard for him to stop. He may be addicted to the porn. Stopping could be very difficult for him.

Please get yourself some counseling. You need someone to support you.

Survived two affairs and brink of Divorce. Happily reconciled. 10 years out from Dday. Reconciliation takes two committed people to be successful.

posts: 13927   ·   registered: May. 19th, 2017
id 8792524
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annanew ( member #43693) posted at 11:20 PM on Thursday, May 25th, 2023

It's disheartening when you think you are two people against the world, and that you are in a bubble that doesn't even contain the yardsticks that measure your body and skin and firmness and boobs and the whiteness of your teeth. Then suddenly you realize your partner may have been measuring you this whole time.

It's sad.

I wish life were more like the movies, sometimes.

Single mom to a sweet girl.

posts: 2500   ·   registered: Jun. 11th, 2014   ·   location: California
id 8792533
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 BadK4rma (original poster new member #83380) posted at 1:21 AM on Friday, May 26th, 2023

Yes, it’s devastating!!

It’s like I’m in this mental prison of constant reminders that I can’t escape.

His memories of the last 1.5 years hasn’t changed since I found out. He knows every detail. But for me, I have 1.5 years of altered memories. Now I question if he was watching these women on birthdays, anniversaries, before or after sex, date nights, away traveling for work…

I wish I could just erase it all.

posts: 4   ·   registered: May. 25th, 2023
id 8792549
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This0is0Fine ( member #72277) posted at 1:50 AM on Friday, May 26th, 2023

So the definition I have consistently used is that cheating is a romantic or sexual *interaction* that you hide the extend of from your partner.

Since he wasn't interacting, I would say he wasn't cheating. What he did is still a little sad and very damaging, but I just couldn't find it in me to call it cheating. Much closer to a porn addiction. This has led to cheating in many cases, so it makes sense how hurt and betrayed you feel.

I would not treat it like an affair, but like an addiction. The thirst trap tiktoks are much closer to a drug than an affair partner (although affairs themselves have an addictive quality to them).

There is no OBS.

There is no AP.

There is no cacoon of intimacy to protect.

Even thugh I would not call this cheating, I think a lot of advice here as it relates to getting the truth and setting boundaries will be useful.

Love is not a measure of capacity for pain you are willing to endure for your partner.

posts: 2631   ·   registered: Dec. 11th, 2019
id 8792554
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 BadK4rma (original poster new member #83380) posted at 5:38 AM on Friday, May 26th, 2023


Since he wasn't interacting, I would say he wasn't cheating. What he did is still a little sad and very damaging, but I just couldn't find it in me to call it cheating. Much closer to a porn addiction. This has led to cheating in many cases, so it makes sense how hurt and betrayed you feel.

I understand what you are saying. I still take the like or heart button as interacting on his end. I definitely see this as being unfaithful in our marriage though.

posts: 4   ·   registered: May. 25th, 2023
id 8792567
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This0is0Fine ( member #72277) posted at 5:59 AM on Friday, May 26th, 2023

So there is something he might not have admitted.

A lot of thirst traps throw in single frames of slightly less clothes or whatever. Still not nudes. So if the user is trying to see the frame they have to pause. If they miss they can pause again.

Click to pause, click to unpause.

Double click heart.

Some likes were probably from that, I would guess. Or he really wanted the algorithm to feed him more thirst traps and did it on purpose.

"Why did you heart that?"

And he doesn't want to say

"I was trying to pause the sluttiest frame"

Not trying to invalidate your feelings. Your feelings are real and justified. He obviously has a problem that hurt you and you guys need to deal with.

Love is not a measure of capacity for pain you are willing to endure for your partner.

posts: 2631   ·   registered: Dec. 11th, 2019
id 8792569
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Seeking2Forgive ( member #78819) posted at 7:49 AM on Friday, May 26th, 2023

I agree with This0is0Fine on the cheating part. I think interactivity is the boundary for most people. But you get to set your own boundaries.

Did you ever have discussions prior to this about what sorts of content were or were not acceptable to you for your partner to be viewing? Whether or not viewing those videos was a betrayal depends on whether you ever set a boundary around that.

You mentioned that he said "it was like looking at a magazine." Did he have reason to think that looking at similar content in a magazine would be acceptable to you?

Obviously, lying about it was a betrayal.

Me: 62, BS -- Her: 61, FWS -- Dday: 11/15/03 -- Married 37 yrs -- Reconciled

posts: 543   ·   registered: May. 18th, 2021
id 8792573
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grubs ( member #77165) posted at 2:32 PM on Friday, May 26th, 2023

Cheating or not is just a label of degree. When you have interactions, the danger ramps up dramatically as then you are getting into the danger of creating bonds with another. That doesn't mean that his addiction wasn't impacting your relationship. You mentioned that he has invested more time in your family afterwards. That's not accounting for all the sexual energy he invested in them over you. That time and energy is what he's diverted away from his family.

Recovery, if possible, is going to be much the same as if he had a physical affair. Take care of yourself first. Be clear in your boundaries, and if he isn't able to stay within them be prepared to cut your losses.

posts: 1580   ·   registered: Jan. 21st, 2021
id 8792626
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slamsunk ( member #79303) posted at 3:40 PM on Friday, May 26th, 2023

Sorry you are here. I don’t know if I would call this cheating or not. But like others have said, does it matter? You feel betrayed by his actions.

I’d want to know what his thoughts are about it…is he looking at these women and then thinking of them while masturbating instead of having sex with you? (I’d probably definitely call this cheating- but would he admit this)

Or is it just a distraction that he gets caught up in thanks to the algorithm of these stupid social media sites. I mean, I can also get distracted and look at a barely dressed woman, not because I’m attracted but just more like wow, look at that body or make up or what the heck is she barely wearing. Not that this makes it okay for him to do if it is hurtful to you.

And I agree, "hearting" a picture is a type of interaction, even if it’s due to trying to pause video to see the barely dressed picture. Its letting some other woman know that he thinks she is hot. And my thoughts are that should be reserved for your significant other. I wonder if he would like it if you were doing the same to hot men?

Some people are okay with this kind of browsing. So most important now is to make your boundaries known. And being lied to should be part of those boundaries.

My WH and I had shit for boundaries. I knew he was flirtatious IRL, always had been, and I knew he enjoyed looking at barely dressed hot girls (that look nothing like me) on social media. I thought I was fine with both (but also didn’t realize the extent to which both took place) until he proceeded to have a phone/text/video relationship that started with a coworker after she moved away (a wanna be social media hot girl).

Now this type of browsing (hot girls) is totally unacceptable and triggering to me. It took longer than it should have for my WH to understand. I think he gets it now. He stopped using social media because the temptation to look is still there and one look just sends more to the feed and it’s a rabbit hole that he finds himsef going down. Now I just see the occasional entertainment news pop up in his history that may include a look at beautiful celebrity. And I can handle that.

I hope that your husband will respect your boundaries now that you have made it known it is hurtful to you. Sorry you have to go through this hurt and best wishes as you try to work this out.

BS- me 44, WH- 46, 2 year EA/sexual text & video chat. Dday spring 2021.
…never is a promise and you can’t afford to lie- Fiona Apple

posts: 88   ·   registered: Aug. 20th, 2021
id 8792684
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HellFire ( member #59305) posted at 5:25 PM on Friday, May 26th, 2023

The subject of whether porn/half dressed images of women is considered cheating,has been the topic of many threads,over the years.

Many,many women consider it cheating. Many,many men don't.

None of that matters.

What matters is if YOU consider it cheating.

Have you,and your husband, discussed porn in the past,and have decided to have a porn free marriage? If so, this can be considered cheating.

Has he told you he never looks at porn,and would never look at porn? If so, this could be considered cheating.

He has done more than look. He has left a heart on many of the pics. That's interaction. Thats letting the female know he likes what he saw.

Gently..You've said he doesn't view porn. These images count as porn. Also, I think the chances that he hasn't viewed porn videos during your marriage is very slim,since he is looking at these kinds of pictures. That he says he hasn't, really means nothing.

[This message edited by HellFire at 5:26 PM, Friday, May 26th]

I will be everywhere you look,but nowhere to be found. And that will be my revenge.

posts: 6680   ·   registered: Jun. 20th, 2017   ·   location: The Midwest
id 8792746
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This0is0Fine ( member #72277) posted at 7:48 PM on Friday, May 26th, 2023

I could consider looking at other men cheating.

I could consider my wife writing a movie review that [insert hot actor's] move was good and that he looked good in it on IMDB as "interacting" with the actor.

Me personally considering things to be that way doesn't make them objectively equivalent to an A.

Is it "problematic behavior" that I need to resolve with my wife through better communication and shared boundaries? Yes, absolutely. Should my wife take my feelings into consideration when she takes her actions? Yes, absolutely. Is there an affair partner? Is there intimacy? Is there a bond that needs to be broken and an NC letter sent to make it clear to the other party? No, no, and no.

I'm not minimizing the hurt. I'm not invalidating feelings. Addictions are one of the hardest issues to deal with in a relationship. Many of the lessons we learn about dealing with affairs apply. Many of the lessons we learn in dealing with abuse apply. But they aren't all the same thing.

Love is not a measure of capacity for pain you are willing to endure for your partner.

posts: 2631   ·   registered: Dec. 11th, 2019
id 8792765
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HellFire ( member #59305) posted at 8:07 PM on Friday, May 26th, 2023

You've always been very pro porn..and when a BW says she's been hurt by her husband's porn use, you tell her that basically that's silly.

I've been vocal about it being 100% ok for a wife to not want porn in her marriage.

Maybe our biases are coloring our responses.

Regardless of how you, I, or anyone else feels about it, this is not your marriage,or mine. If this is a boundary, and a problem for her, then that's absolutely fine.

We like to tell members that if it's something you wouldn't do in front of your spouse, and it's something you are hiding, it's unacceptable. I would think that applies with porn as well.

I could consider my wife writing a movie review that [insert hot actor's] move was good and that he looked good in it on IMDB as "interacting" with the actor.

That's odd. Now,if your wife were to write to the actor,that would be different.

You get to decide what is,and what isn't in your marriage. As does everyone else,in their's.

She asked if it was considered cheating or a betrayal. You gave your opinion, I gave mine. It isn't a contest to see who is right. She gets to decide. Not us.

I will be everywhere you look,but nowhere to be found. And that will be my revenge.

posts: 6680   ·   registered: Jun. 20th, 2017   ·   location: The Midwest
id 8792767
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This0is0Fine ( member #72277) posted at 8:34 PM on Friday, May 26th, 2023

You've always been very pro porn..and when a BW says she's been hurt by her husband's porn use, you tell her that basically that's silly.

I never suggested it is silly to be hurt by porn use. I think if you filter men by the question "do you use porn? because I'm against it" you will filter in more liars than you will honest men that don't watch porn. You are setting up a point of entry that is counterproductive to finding an honest partner. Whether or not my judgement here is true regarding this filter, the expectation can still be stated and set in a reasonable and valid fashion between partners. She can be genuinely hurt later when she finds out that the man she has filtered in uses porn and is a liar. The boundary is not "silly". It's my judgment that the boundary is likely to accepted by, then be broken by, a liar that doesn't care about her feelings.

I've been vocal about it being 100% ok for a wife to not want porn in her marriage.

Maybe our biases are coloring our responses.

That's possible.

Regardless of how you, I, or anyone else feels about it, this is not your marriage,or mine. If this is a boundary, and a problem for her, then that's absolutely fine.

It's a totally reasonable boundary that is much closer to "I won't accept you smoking" which is also a reasonable boundary. And like that addiction, it will be hard to kick.

We like to tell members that if it's something you wouldn't do in front of your spouse, and it's something you are hiding, it's unacceptable. I would think that applies with porn as well.

I agree, and also like smoking, or drugs, or gambling, or spending money. These are all dishonest and a betrayal, but they aren't an affair.

I'm trying to offer reasonable help, and I wouldn't throw the boilerplate go-to books of "Not Just Friends" and "How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair" into the reasonable advice column for what her husband has done.

Love is not a measure of capacity for pain you are willing to endure for your partner.

posts: 2631   ·   registered: Dec. 11th, 2019
id 8792774
Topic is Sleeping.
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