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Wayward Side :
12 Years after D day .....

Topic is Sleeping.
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 Ragab (original poster member #82425) posted at 4:36 PM on Saturday, December 3rd, 2022

I wish I discovered this forum YEARS ago. Maybe I would have had answers by now.

12 years after D-day, still feel like everything came out only yesterday.

BS lives in a constant "hurt, hate, and angry" state of mind. Anything and everything "triggers" those emotions. He does keep on asking why life is so unfair. Why do we have to go through all this shit, hurt, anger, etc., and the AP (he was not married or in a relationship at the time, we were co-workers. I resigned immediately after D-Day and never saw AP again) but this resulted in us going through some financial difficulties. BS feels like (his words: Prince charming who got what he wanted, driving off on his horse with all the "bragging rights' ' – never to face anything. Currently AP is married and from what we could gather and live "the live" aboard, while we are still stuck. BS "believe" if he can just hurt him as much as he was hurt, that he must also experience how it is to suffer, to lose everything that matters – EVERY WAKING MOMENT.


He has days that he just gets lost in his head where he continues "fantasizing" about justice. Not a nice picture, blood, and guts - The more horrific, crueler the better.


Does anybody relate to this? Will it ever go away?

Some days are diamonds, some days are stones.... lately more stones than diamonds.

posts: 60   ·   registered: Nov. 19th, 2022   ·   location: South Africa
id 8767972
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Justsomeguy ( member #65583) posted at 4:46 PM on Saturday, December 3rd, 2022

No stop sign, so I'll chime in. Does you BH know about this site? Sounds like he needs some support from others who have gone through the same trauma.

I feel bad for your Bh. Living like this is no way to live.

I'm an oulier in my positions.

Me:55 STBXWW:55 DD#1: false confession of EA Dec. 2016. False R for a year.DD#2: confessed to year long PA Dec. 2 2017 (was about to be outed)Called it off and filed. Denied having an affair in court papers.

Divorced 20

posts: 1825   ·   registered: Jul. 25th, 2018   ·   location: Canada
id 8767976
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Dude67 ( member #75700) posted at 5:20 PM on Saturday, December 3rd, 2022

Since no stop sign…

I suspect that he’s transferring a lot of his residual anger he has for you towards your AP. He may totally realize what he’s doing or perhaps not.

I would flat out ask him if he still harbors anger and resentment towards you, and/or a personal feeling of emasculation, humiliation, mind movies, etc.

If yes, then you have a baseline of knowledge from which you can better understand what he’s going through.

posts: 785   ·   registered: Oct. 21st, 2020
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lrpprl ( member #80538) posted at 5:37 PM on Saturday, December 3rd, 2022

No Stop Sign so I will chime in also.

I think it would do you both good to read the book "Cheating in a Nutshell" by Wayne and Tamara Mitchell. It describes very well where all those thoughts and emotions your husband is feeling are coming from. Most of those emotions are biologically and evolutionary designed to protect him from "danger" (you). However, when the perceived "danger" has passed, and is no longer needed, sometimes those emotions and thoughts continue.

He should probably read the book two or three times to get a good understanding of what happened to him. It can be read in a day or so. It is a shame that the book was not written when you betrayed him.

I think it would do you good also to read it to gain some understanding about why he is reacting this way, and what you can and cannot do about it.

Good luck to you both. It sounds like your head is in the right place to help him. I sure hope so.

Again, good luck.

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Tanner ( Guide #72235) posted at 5:58 PM on Saturday, December 3rd, 2022

I’m glad you found us. The fact that you are seeking help for your BH is a great first step.

What work did y’all do 12 years ago. If it was rug swept then it’s expected for the feelings to re appear, especially when times get stressful. If he was stonewalled or you minimized what happened he still has questions and BS’s fill in the missing pieces with their own thoughts and a lot of time we have these wild visions of passionate, gymnastic sex acts (mind movies), they are brutal.

His anger is misplaced he is angry and he has to channel that anger away to someone else.
Come to him like an open book, start dealing with the issues he is struggling with. Fall on the sword take full responsibility for the A as the gate keeper to the marriage. Healing and R are a long journey that takes years, you have to decide to move along that journey, healing will not come find you, you have to seek it out. It sounds like you guys never started moving, so it’s like day one. Best Wishes to you and your H.

Dday Sept 7 2019 doing well in R BH M 32 years

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sisoon ( Moderator #31240) posted at 7:17 PM on Saturday, December 3rd, 2022

What on SI has had the most impact on you?

Tanner asks a great question: what work did y'all do 12 years ago? And, not BTW, what have you done to change from betrayer to good partner?

The good news is that even if you rugswept, if you start doing the work now, you can both survive and thrive. You may not be able to R, but you both can start living satisfying lives. And if you do your work, you can heal even if your H doesn't.

*****

Cheating in a Nutshell offers one lop-sided POV. For a different, more balanced view, see NOT "Just Friends".

Don't get me wrong - I have great sympathy for your H. It looks like he sees no real hope of living a good life after being betrayed, and hopelessness is awful. He may, in the end, decide your A was unforgivable and that you are unforgivable, but I hope he learns very quickly that he can survive and thrive, because your A was about you, not about him. So I agree with suggesting he look at SI to find out if he can get help here.

fBH (me) - on d-day: 66, Married 43, together 45, same sex ap
DDay - 12/22/2010
Recover'd and R'ed
You don't have to like your boundaries. You just have to set and enforce them.

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LegsWideShut ( member #80302) posted at 7:53 PM on Saturday, December 3rd, 2022

If it was never truly dealt with other than "Im sorry's" and "I love you's" I can understand how angry his mind still is. He's angry at you, he's angry at the other man. As they say here "you threw a grenade into your marriage". Just saying its over and going on with your life never seems to work. As it clearly is the case here.
He's hurt and he really needs some help dealing with that, his whole life was destroyed because of the affair, thats a lot of weight for someone to have to carry when it wasn't their fault.

posts: 134   ·   registered: May. 9th, 2022   ·   location: New England
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lrpprl ( member #80538) posted at 8:17 PM on Saturday, December 3rd, 2022

I agree that "Cheating in a Nutshell" is lopsided in that about 90% of it is written for the betrayed spouses behalf, and that "Not Just Friends" is more balanced.

However, from what the original poster said his emotions continue strongly even 12 years out. "Cheating in a Nutshell" is primarily written to describe those emotions in minute detail and the source of those emotions. In her spouse's case I would suggest he might benefit understanding why he is still having those emotions. I believe that it is not enough to say he will feel Anger six months after discovering her betrayal, etc. Her spouse should understand exactly why he is still feeling Anger after 12 years. You have to admit that after 12 years some understanding is needed... probably some professional counseling also. She did not say if he has ever attended individual counseling.

Usually when one of my friends or relatives find themselves in infidelity I always recommend "Not Just Friends", and lately I have been recommending "Cheating in a Nutshell" also as it is a much newer book. "Not Just Friends" is really good and more balanced if that is needed.

However, her spouse might or might not benefit from from "Not Just Friends", since this all happened 12 years ago and a lot of time has passed. Though it can't hurt him to read it, nor her. I just feel he will initially benefit more from reading "Cheating in a Nutshell" before he reads "Not Just Friends".

Just my honest opinion. We all have our personal favorite books.

Ragab, I strongly suggest that you should direct him here to Surviving Infidelity and to the Healing Library here on this website. There is so much wisdom there for both of you.

posts: 284   ·   registered: Aug. 12th, 2022   ·   location: USA
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 Ragab (original poster member #82425) posted at 7:00 AM on Sunday, December 4th, 2022

As mentioned above, I really wished I knew about this forum YEARS ago.

I believed (really really believed) that I said I am sorry, and I stopped doing what I was doing. We spend 99% of our time together so he knows where I am and what I am doing all of the time. Again, I really could not understand why he is not getting over it. I keep on telling him that I changed (stopped doing what I did) and thought it would be enough, so when he told me that I did nothing in the 12 years, I got mad and pitied myself (my 1st go to)

He knows about this forum and I read and share almost everything I read with him, I now only realize what he is going through. He told me almost verbatim what he was going through but I believed time will heal. Obviously, time does not heal. Now he asks, why do I understand when other people say it but not him? Or why now after 12 years? I thought I gave him all the detail, and he said I did not (so he believe the mind movies) I told him we had sex within 10min of admitting the A, again I believed I told him the worst so the rest is not relevant. I told him about all the times we met, all the times we had sex, etc. Again, I believed I came clean - obviously not. In one of the posts I read here, the person described that she want to know if it was white, or brown bread, what was the dressing, etc. My problem now is that it is 12 years later, and I really can not remember and that is like detonating a bomb " I can not remember"

I know I have my work cut out for me, but it feels like I am running out of time....... So much to absorb, I wish I had time to just sit and read all the posts and books and just absorb but I need to put in the work and I am so scared I mess up again.

In another post the BS mentioned what was expected of the WS, and I can relate but I never knew how selfish I am, I never understood why I did what I did, and I never knew that my life and how much he actually gave and I took. We have been married for 23 years now and I am amazed that I am only realizing all my wrongs now. I just do not know how to become a better person, how to give and not take, how to be there for him and not myself, but I am willing to try.

Some days are diamonds, some days are stones.... lately more stones than diamonds.

posts: 60   ·   registered: Nov. 19th, 2022   ·   location: South Africa
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 Ragab (original poster member #82425) posted at 7:39 AM on Sunday, December 4th, 2022

Regarding counseling, While I had my affair I saw a pastor as I did not know why I was feeling what I was at the time, and I just saw everything I thought my husband did wrong (now only realizing that it was myself that was looking for excuses for my behavior's)
My husband also went to see him but this was another one of my mistakes as I manipulated the situation and the pastor said "he (my husband) is driving you into the arms of another man" He obviously was not experienced and equipped to deal with infidelity.

Approx. 2 years after D day we attempted couple counseling, which lasted 3 sessions and he said nobody understand what he is going through. He doesn't want to write a letter to the AP and burn the letter, he wants to burn the AP and cut him up in pieces and the counselor did not know this as we never went back. He also feels why must he sit in front of a stranger and pour his soul out and the AP just goes on with his life without any consequences. He often tells me that I did this to him/us and I have to fix it/us crying

Some days are diamonds, some days are stones.... lately more stones than diamonds.

posts: 60   ·   registered: Nov. 19th, 2022   ·   location: South Africa
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Tanner ( Guide #72235) posted at 10:57 AM on Sunday, December 4th, 2022

I believed (really really believed) that I said I am sorry, and I stopped doing what I was doing. We spend 99% of our time together so he knows where I am and what I am doing all of the time. Again, I really could not understand why he is not getting over it. I keep on telling him that I changed (stopped doing what I did) and thought it would be enough, so when he told me that I did nothing in the 12 years, I got mad and pitied myself (my 1st go to)

Gently, this is like a twist of the knife. He was not able heal with you, he had to suffer in silence. This will always come back around at some point. Like I said before, y’all never took the journey of healing and R, everything has to be discussed worked through. I promise if you sat him down and listened to him without being defensive, it would flood out of him. He has to feel heard.

Dday Sept 7 2019 doing well in R BH M 32 years

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Trdd ( member #65989) posted at 2:15 PM on Sunday, December 4th, 2022

A few good book recommendations for you two to read have been given. You also might pick up How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair. That book might give you more ideas of how to support him, along with many threads here at SI.

It sounds like your husband needs counseling, individual, with a pro that has experience with infidelity. He needs to work through his feelings and realize that isn't a punishment, it's a source of assistance. Very different from the MC he tried. By not getting help, in one sense, he's letting the A win.

We often think other people have great lives with no problems because of what we see from the outside. Almost always, the outer wrapper does not show the full truth. Everyone has their struggles and most people hide them. AP included. I am not sure this is a good idea but your husband could track down your AP's wife and tell her that her husband slept with you back when he was single. That his immoral, selfish actions caused a great deal of pain and that he just wants her to know that because 1) it's true 2) perhaps her husband is prone to having affairs now that he is married too. It would be a consequence for AP. Not the same as if he was married when you had your A but a consequence nonetheless.

[This message edited by Trdd at 2:16 PM, Sunday, December 4th]

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lrpprl ( member #80538) posted at 2:16 PM on Sunday, December 4th, 2022

Aristotle considered each virtue as having two extremes, like on a pendulum. He thought anger was indeed a virtue... it being the mid-point between being a raging hot lunatic on one extreme and being a "nothing", like a doormat, on the other extreme.

Anger is not bad if handled correctly. Anger is definitely a virtue, because anger seeks to right wrongs. Without anger wrongs would go unpunished. Jesus himself became very angry when he threw the money-changers out of the temple.

Anger is a natural reaction to the huge injustice that your husband did not seek, but you dumped on his head anyway. As you said, he is angry that your paramour got off, in his opinion, scot-free... maybe even thriving in your husband's eyes. That may be one cause of his anger. As an outsider it appears to me that there might be another cause. All his anger to the other man might be some transference on his part from the anger he feels toward you. Does he feel that maybe you did not suffer enough for the injustice he suffered? You changed your job, but both of you felt the financial hit... not just you. However you got to keep your marriage and home. Maybe he feels subconsciously you should have suffered more and he does not even realize it.

Of course, I am just a stranger on the internet and I don't really know your situation so my words probably mean nothing. You have probably thought of all this. My suggestion, as an internet stranger, is to get him into individual counseling with a counselor who is experienced in trauma and also infidelity. I do not know either of you, but it sounds to me like he is suffering from some form of PTSD.

Also, the book selections that Sisoon and I suggested.

I wish you two all the luck in the world.

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 Ragab (original poster member #82425) posted at 2:59 PM on Sunday, December 4th, 2022

Appreciate all the comments.

Some days are diamonds, some days are stones.... lately more stones than diamonds.

posts: 60   ·   registered: Nov. 19th, 2022   ·   location: South Africa
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 Ragab (original poster member #82425) posted at 4:53 PM on Sunday, December 4th, 2022

sisoon ( Moderator #31240) posted at 7:17 PM on Saturday, December 3rd, 2022

What on SI has had the most impact on you?

Tanner asks a great question: what work did y'all do 12 years ago? And, not BTW, what have you done to change from betrayer to good partner?

(I do not know how to copy above correctly)

Sisoon, my apologies for not answering your above question, just mind-boggling.

I think the greatest impact for me is the fact that "I am sorry" and that I stopped the A immediately, was and will never be enough. I could not understand what was so bad for him crying I realized I TT and blamed my BH for not "getting over it"

I never understood why I did it, I love and always loved my husband, and he keeps on asking why he was not enough, why did it happen, why the AP why why why and I found 99% of the answers.

I have to go waaaaaaay back and give him details, but I am so scared I fuck it up again that I am finding myself that I am trying to stall (buying time)
Since I started reading SI I realized I actually did not do anything - as per Tanner's question. I thought I did, and could not understand when BH said I did nothing. He so often told me that the word sorry does not mean anything. In all my life, I never had such a deep insight into myself than these few days.....

Some days are diamonds, some days are stones.... lately more stones than diamonds.

posts: 60   ·   registered: Nov. 19th, 2022   ·   location: South Africa
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LegsWideShut ( member #80302) posted at 7:36 PM on Sunday, December 4th, 2022

It takes a WS a long time to accept and recognize what exactly they did to their spouse. The WS and the AP had their fun, enjoyed what they did and never really gave a damn about what would happen or how the BS would feel. The BS had NO fun, just a basket full of pain that was never asked for. Its devastating, it just turns your world upside down, and to have the person who claims to have loved you so much be the one to do it to you....thats brutal.

Thats why "I love you's", "I'm sorry" etc will never help a BS heal. Words from a WS literally mean nothing to someone being put through that. I see it as something akin to someone chopping off your finger and than say "Sorry I bet that hurt!" And thinking/acting as if things are fine after that.

Heck there are WS's that can't tolerate their BS not getting over it and want to leave, which for the BS that should be a God send. Im glad for you that you're trying to wad through it all.

You should also understand that very few BS's will EVER believe their cheating spouse truly loves them. We can't formulate an answer to why that would happen if they truly did love us.

You may have to risk fucking up again because you shouldnt keep stalling. Again its making it all about you and not him. You have to risk getting knocked down if you want to change where your marriage is and your spouses head is at.

Good luck, I do wish you the best and him as well.

[This message edited by LegsWideShut at 7:52 PM, Sunday, December 4th]

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ReluctantEmu ( new member #82500) posted at 1:38 AM on Monday, December 5th, 2022

Listen, I can’t judge you, I’m a WW and this is my first response to a post… but 12 years and he’s still in pain indicates you haven’t done anything or enough to heal him. BHs need consistency, they need effort every single day and for you to build him up to be the only one that they need. This is just how it is.

Me: WW (33),Him: BH (33)

LTA from Nov 2020-Feb 2022

In recovery

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id 8768164
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 Ragab (original poster member #82425) posted at 4:15 AM on Monday, December 5th, 2022

Why is it that whatever I am trying to say, seems like he just does not understand? If I ask him what he heard I said, then I am speechless as it seems like my words are being twisted from the moment they leave my mouth till they reach his ears. Everything in my mind makes sense and I explain it to him, he twists it and then we fight.
I even told him to go and have sex with another person with the hope that maybe he will understand. How do I explain to him that the sex with AP meant nothing? He keeps on comparing what we have (lovemaking vs sex). He just does not understand/grasp how can you have sex without feelings.
I never had the A for the sex, I wanted the attention, I wanted validation, the compliments and I allowed the sex as I believed that if I did not allow the sex then the above would stop. He doesn't understand that it was not about the AP it was about me and it could have been anybody. How do I get him to understand this sad crying

How do I answer:
If you love somebody you do not hurt them like that.
You would never tell your children they are not welcome in your house - why did I hurt him (compare my love for the kids to my love (not love) for him)
Why the sex (as per him that was the betrayal)
What did he ever do to deserve this hurt and pain?
why this specific AP (he doesn't understand that it was never about attraction to the AP)
This is just the tip of the iceberg that I do not know how to get through to him, maybe BS can help.

Once again thank you all, I need to read and re-read all the above again and absorb it.

Some days are diamonds, some days are stones.... lately more stones than diamonds.

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LegsWideShut ( member #80302) posted at 4:33 AM on Monday, December 5th, 2022

I even told him to go and have sex with another person with the hope that maybe he will understand.


Well thats the wrong thing right there. That will just make it worse.
Understand from a BS view...you're a liar. Your words will not mean much no matter how you answer them. Few of us ever will understand how a WW can do to us what they did, you still need to do the work. You both need IC, as youve done nothing to prove you can be or are a safe partner, just because you stopped didn't fix whats broken in you. He needs it to help him deal with the devastating pain and hurt you caused him. He obviously can't deal with it on his own, YOU did this to him, he isn't going to believe you can fix it with words.
Im not trying to be mean, and I am sorry if it comes across that way, hard truths are never pleasant, but for the record just because YOU can separate love from sex, realize not everyone else can and personally thats a hill I couldnt get over if I had to, no matter how hard I tried. Its great for you that you can, but that isnt going to help him any in the future either. He cant separate the two and that will be a big issue. And yes you stopped it immediately but yet you did still do it. See the disconnect there, immediately or further down the road doesnt change that you had sex with someone else that wasnt your husband. Once, twice, twenty times...doesnt change what happened. Once it too many times.
If your marriage means that much to you, then Counseling is something you both need, along with the books other recommend. Otherwise you'll keep circling the drain.

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 Ragab (original poster member #82425) posted at 5:08 AM on Monday, December 5th, 2022

I do not think you are harsh, makes sense.
I am busy reading cheating, in a nutshell, next will be not just friends.

Some days are diamonds, some days are stones.... lately more stones than diamonds.

posts: 60   ·   registered: Nov. 19th, 2022   ·   location: South Africa
id 8768179
Topic is Sleeping.
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