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Newest Member: Tortex

Divorce/Separation :
Taking exww to court


 J707 (original poster member #63778) posted at 2:48 PM on Friday, June 17th, 2022

Hello everyone, I've missed you all! At the beginning of the year we started an intense therapy program for my DD14. As some know she attempted suicide late 2020 and is still struggling. She has good days and bad days. There are 3 therapists, one for me, one for my exww and one for my DD14. We meet weekly solo, every other week for parent meeting and once a month for family meetings. All therapists are involved in all these meetings. We are digging dip to try and help DD14.

Something seems off though. I know my DD had depression before. She has been seeing IC for 4 years already. But I believe something happened to DD to set in motion her suicidal thoughts and attempt. Exww seems weird during this whole thing, like she knows something I don't. The therapists think this too. Time will tell. We all feel we are getting closer. But exww is caught in lie after lie, no surprise there. We are making progress.

Last Sunday my credit score dropped 100 points. Exww had charged up $2,000 on a joint credit card a few years back and stopped paying in early 2019. She stopped paying it and it is know at $3400. I had no idea as I thought the account was closed. It never showed up on my credit report until now, which is weird. I emailed exww that day and gave her 30 days to pay off this debt or I'll seek legal action. I spoke with an attorney and she is on standby at the end of the 30 days. It's a cut and dry case.

Exww wants to set up a payment plan. Nope! You had a payment plan and you failed. Her credit is shot as she did this with all her solo cards so she can't get a balance transfer or a loan. Ain't my problem. It is in our divorce decree that she is liable for this debt. Credit card companies don't care so my legal recourse is to go after exww in court. I'm also requesting attorney fees.

I hope to be back on SI one day. With all this therapy, I've had to do self care and focus on my kids. Because my exww has continued to show me what a vile, narcissistic, evil person she is, I rarely even think about her affair anymore. It's been 4 years since Dday. I'm not saying I'm healed, it will live with me forever but she shows me during this process what a disgusting human being she is.

posts: 1113   ·   registered: May. 14th, 2018   ·   location: Ca
id 8740647

 J707 (original poster member #63778) posted at 3:04 PM on Friday, June 17th, 2022

Knowing what I know about NPD and their kids, she views DD14 as an extension of herself. So if DD is sad, depressed etc. She views that as a failure. So she lies and says she is good at her place, not mine though. Everything is rainbows and sunshine, only at her place. The therapists see it and know it. They have met the true exww. They see past the bullshit. I'm confident exww has contributed to my DD14s depression/anxiety by just being her NPD self. I am prepared to go full custody if the chance presents itself. My DD14 won't just decide to come live with me. So I wait patiently, if something comes out in therapy or neglect presents itself.

posts: 1113   ·   registered: May. 14th, 2018   ·   location: Ca
id 8740661

BearlyBreathing ( member #55075) posted at 3:44 PM on Friday, June 17th, 2022

You are such a wonderful and devoted father. It is really really admirable to see how much you are doing to help your DD. And I’m sorry that you’re XWS is still behaving like a Selfish and self-centered ass.

No advice but just sending you continued strength and hoping that you and your DD are in a less volatile place soon.

Hang in there. And you’re right you have to have patience and wait for the right time. Teenagers are hard and teenagers with depression or even harder.


Me: BS 55 (49 on d-day)Him: WH. 64. D-Day 8/15/2016 LTA. Kinda liking my new life :-)

**horrible typist, lots of edits to correct. :-/ **

posts: 4876   ·   registered: Sep. 10th, 2016   ·   location: Northern CA
id 8740679

 J707 (original poster member #63778) posted at 4:02 PM on Friday, June 17th, 2022

Thank you for the kind words BB! Guiding through all this has not been easy. I've had my moments and allow myself to breakdown. All the tools I learned during Dday and divorce were extremely beneficial to me during all this. Self care and focus is my friend. It would be nice if exww was on the same team but it almost feels like shes rooting against team DD14.

posts: 1113   ·   registered: May. 14th, 2018   ·   location: Ca
id 8740686

The1stWife ( member #58832) posted at 4:37 PM on Friday, June 17th, 2022

I pray you get custody.

Good friend had a similar situation. Oldest child developed an eating disorder from living with NPD father and watching her mother try to survive the revolving door of affairs.

Maybe your daughter would dramatically improve being away from The source of the pain.

At least others see the real XW. She’s not fooling the therapists 👍🏻

Survived two affairs and brink of Divorce. Happily reconciled.

posts: 12289   ·   registered: May. 19th, 2017
id 8740708

crazyblindsided ( member #35215) posted at 4:43 PM on Friday, June 17th, 2022

I'm confident exww has contributed to my DD14s depression/anxiety by just being her NPD self.

100% this ^^^ my kids are also experiencing difficult emotions and depression that I believe is due to the Ex. My kids voice to me how uncomfortable he makes them feel at times and often he deploys the same Narcissistic manipulation of their emotions.

fBS/fWS(me):49 Mad-hattered after DD1
XWS:51 Serial Cheater, Diagnosed NPD
Was Married 19 yrs
DD(19) DS(16)
DD1 (2008) COW, DD2 (2012) MOW, False R (2014) Same MOW. DD3 (2019) Webcam girl

posts: 8290   ·   registered: Apr. 2nd, 2012   ·   location: California
id 8740711

 J707 (original poster member #63778) posted at 4:54 PM on Friday, June 17th, 2022

Maybe your daughter would dramatically improve being away from The source of the pain.

I am off work for 10 days and have my DD with me. My DS20 is going to Mexico with my Mom for a week. DD14 told her IC that she would feel safer being here with me instead of at exww's house. I'm also taking an additional day off during the summer to have my kids more.

posts: 1113   ·   registered: May. 14th, 2018   ·   location: Ca
id 8740717

 J707 (original poster member #63778) posted at 4:58 PM on Friday, June 17th, 2022

My kids voice to me how uncomfortable he makes them feel at times and often he deploys the same Narcissistic manipulation of their emotions.

I think back to all the emotional abuse I received from my ex. Shes doing the same shit to my kids. Just as yours is. They don't change. I just try to be there for mine. Emotionally available, truly hear what they have to say and give them the unconditional love they aren't getting.

posts: 1113   ·   registered: May. 14th, 2018   ·   location: Ca
id 8740718

Bigger ( Attaché #8354) posted at 11:44 AM on Saturday, June 18th, 2022

This site is useful both in direct advice on a particular situation, but also as general advice for those in comparable situations that might need to hear this.
I feel compelled to use this foreword because it might sound like I’m directing this directly at you j707…

Examples like this are exactly why you have a lawyer in your corner when you divorce. Even a do-it-yourself quick divorce. If nothing else you pay him the retainer or the hourly rate simply to read over the final draft and to make sure the i’s are dotted and the t’s crossed. Don’t know about your situ J707, but something like a joint credit-card with outstanding debt is marital debt, and should have been dealt with (either paid or moved to either individual) as part of the process.

Examples like this are also the reason you don’t want the ex to have any possibility to effect you or impact in the future. People don’t divorce because they are such good friends, and I venture that in the majority of cases there is resentment. You can turn gray-rock and not respond to whatever prod the ex makes, but then they realize that THIS is one way to prod you hard. IF you divorce then make a clean break. If your soon-to-be former spouse is supposed to take on the MasterCard debt then make 100% certain the company/bank/provider accepts that change and sets you 100% off the hook. If not possible then that card needs to be paid in full, even if that means you get less equity out of the house or whatever.

J707 – I think possibly your best "solution" could be to phone the owner of the debt and negotiate a one-off, single payment for the total amount. Chances are the debt has been sold to a collectors agency, and they would probably buy it at 50 cents to the dollar or less. You might be able to negotiate the debt to 2500. Once you have confirmation that any payment you make is final and for the total amount (in writing) you pay with a check. Keep copies of both (and all communications) for the next 15 years.

You then have a claim to your ex for the amount, IF the divorce documents clearly state she was supposed to pay. You can also deduct any child-support or alimony payments for the amount (with a documented reason) to the amount you paid.

The collections agency? They don’t give a hoot that your ex promised to pay. The KNOW that if the documentation and approvals at time of divorce wasn’t done right they have case, and they will go for the one that can pay. Right now it’s you and not your wife.

"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

posts: 10815   ·   registered: Sep. 29th, 2005
id 8740802

morningglory ( member #80236) posted at 11:21 PM on Saturday, June 18th, 2022

Stay strong. I've been through a custody case against a narcissistic ex. It's miserable to go through, but there is light at the end of the tunnel. It gets a lot better afterwards, once a court order is in place and you no longer have to try to negotiate with a narc. You'll get there.

posts: 454   ·   registered: Apr. 15th, 2022
id 8740869

leafields ( member #63517) posted at 8:00 AM on Sunday, June 19th, 2022

Is there a possibility that you could get custody of DS14? Rooting for you.

BW M 34years, Dday 1: March 2018, Dday 2: August 2019, D final 2/25/21

posts: 1233   ·   registered: Apr. 21st, 2018   ·   location: Washington State
id 8740887

ZenMumWalking ( member #25341) posted at 9:25 PM on Sunday, June 19th, 2022

((((J & DD14)))) I've been thinking about the both of you.

It took my suicidal DS a definite amount of time to land back on his feet. And neither of us is NPD!!

I hope you are all able to get to the bottom of whatever's going on with NDP mom-bitch. In the mean time, you keep being DD's soft place to land.

About the cards / money, lock that shit down tight. Might also be worth it to have the L take a look for any other vulnerabilities. Could she get new cards in your name??

Take care - and I'm sending out positive healing thoughts to your both and wisdom for your caregivers.

((((J & DD))))

Me (BS), Him (WH): late-50's
3 DS: 26, 25, 22
M: 30+ (19 1/2 at Dday)
Dday: Dec 2008
Wanted R, not gonna happen
Used to be DeadMumWalking, doing better now

posts: 8445   ·   registered: Aug. 28th, 2009   ·   location: EU
id 8740971

barcher144 ( member #54935) posted at 4:55 PM on Monday, June 20th, 2022

I am in a somewhat similar situation.

My thoughts:

1. I think taking her to court over the CC stuff is the right approach. I have no experience with this type of stuff, legally, but my understanding is that she is staring a contempt-order right in the face. And that's her problem, not yours. The practical problem that you face is actually getting the money... you can't get blood out of a turnip.

You should also call to the CC company to make sure that it is closed. You can close an account with a balance... my guess is that it was closed and the increase in the amount owed is simply high CC interest rates compounded for a few years.

2. Go easy on DD14. As others have suggested, she is likely absorbing the same emotional abuse that you absorbed.

That said, you still need to set some boundaries, but make them easily achievable. For example, if she has severe depression, you can set a boundary that she needs to brush her teeth and change her clothes every day... and maybe shower every-other-day. With my daughter, we set a goal for her to get all of her school assignments submitted. They didn't need to be on time... and she didn't need to get great grades... but she needed to get her assignments submitted.

Mostly, though, listen to the therapists... they will usually offer really help, case-specific advice.

Me: BH, age 48Her: WS, age 45 (multiple EAs and PAs)D-Day: August 30, 2016

Diagnosed with depression in December 2016, which was primarily caused by my xWW's affair and associated emotional abuse.

posts: 5295   ·   registered: Aug. 31st, 2016
id 8741061

gmc94 ( Guide #62810) posted at 6:33 PM on Monday, June 20th, 2022

You can also deduct any child-support or alimony payments for the amount (with a documented reason) to the amount you paid.

I think Bigger's advice, with the above exception, is sound. I would NOT withhold anything from child support or maintenance w/o talking to an attorney (in some states, that is a huge no-no)

M >25yrs/grown kids
DD1 1994 ONS prostitute
DD2 2018 exGF1 10+yrEA & 10yrPA... + exGF2 EA forever & "made out" 2017
9/18 WH hung himself- died but revived

It's rude to say "I love you" with a mouthful of lies

posts: 3824   ·   registered: Feb. 22nd, 2018
id 8741080

 J707 (original poster member #63778) posted at 4:31 PM on Tuesday, June 21st, 2022

Yes, the account is closed. At this point it's late fees and interest piling up each month. We have no alimony or child support on either side. Times a ticking. I'm hoping she gets a personal loan from one of her family members. I highly doubt she will but that ain't my problem. As Barcher said, trying to get the money out of her will be another story even if we go to court.

Barcher, I do have some boundaries in place. Showering and brushing teeth has been a headache. But they are in place. Currently 2-3 time a week for shower's. She has limits on screen time as well. I treat brushing teeth as if she is a child. Really all I have to do is remind her day and night. She does it once reminded.

posts: 1113   ·   registered: May. 14th, 2018   ·   location: Ca
id 8741231

Bigger ( Attaché #8354) posted at 3:08 PM on Wednesday, June 22nd, 2022

Once again so others can learn.

First – good call out on my suggestion reg. withholding payments!

I am about 99% certain that if the original divorce decree didn’t clearly state that this card/account was hers AND if there is no documentation with the card-provider where the provider ACKNOWLEDGES that any outstanding balance and any future transaction is solely accountable to her then the debt is equally yours.

I am also 99% certain that the card-provider won’t make this change on outstanding balance. In human words:
If the credit-card was charged to 1000 at the time of divorce the card-provider would want that amount paid in full before agreeing that the charge was ONLY accountable to her. The more likely outcome is that the card would be closed and a new one issued to her.

That 1000 – irrespective of who is contracted to pay for it in the divorce document – is what is called in solidum. In human words: The outstanding balance is not divided in two, but they can go after either partner for the total amount.

I am also 99% certain that if your then-ex wife charged stuff on the card AFTER the divorce the card-provider still has a claim on you UNLESS the above-mentioned acknowledgement was in place. It’s not the role of your bank to query your marital status.

That 1000 – your attorney can go to court and sue your ex for not respecting the terms of the divorce. The judge could tell her that she should pay you or pay the card. This does NOT impact the claimants right to demand YOU pay the outstanding amount if the ex wife doesn’t comply.
Granted you could sue her for the amount and she might get a contempt of court order, but at the end of the day the odds are that you pay and then claim her for the amount.

I like dealing with reality. That is the reality of the situation. If she makes payment then great. If not – be prepared. Maybe you two even work together on this. She tells you what she can pay NOW and you make up the rest and she pays you 50 per month for the next x months. Might not be ideal but beats paying the total amount.

One final tip on practical matters: Who owns the debt? Very often the original owner simply writes the debt off and sells it to a collections agency. If she hasn’t been paying since 2019 this might be what’s happening. These agencies pay anything from 5-60 cents per dollar, and then they add all sorts of nice-sounding fees. Chances are the claimed 3400 is actually closer to 1500 for the collections agency. You could contact the collections agency and ask what one-off payment would be accepted as the final payment for the amount. They will demand the total amount at first, so be willing to tell them good luck getting money out of either of you. Offer 1800 and if they don’t accept then cut the call. Phone again a day later. And again. And again. Once you get an accepted amount (even if that ends up being the full amount) get a confirmation e-mail that details the account and the amount accepted as FINAL payment. Then send a check. Keep photocopies of both in at least 2 locations for the next 10 years.
Heck… I would even place a crucifix on the wall and spread garlic on the windows to keep them away… just to be safe!

"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

posts: 10815   ·   registered: Sep. 29th, 2005
id 8741372
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