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Respectful dialogue about Covid

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DevastatedDee ( member #59873) posted at 5:26 PM on Friday, January 14th, 2022

Though mouthwash can partially kill off parts of the coronavirus in a person’s mouth, most infections occur through the nose, health experts said. "Even if gargling kills some of the virus, it won’t be able to clean the nasal area, nor the viruses that’s already penetrated deeper into the body," said Kim Woo-Joo, an infectious-disease expert at Korea University.

DDay: 06/07/2017
MH - RA on DDay.
Divorced a serial cheater (prostitutes and lord only knows who and what else).

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BraveSirRobin ( Guide #69242) posted at 5:40 PM on Friday, January 14th, 2022

and will supposedly kill 99% of germs

Careful with how you read that, though. It doesn't mean 99% of all germs in existence. It means 99% of the germs on which it has been proven effective.

When I look at my can of Lysol, it advertises that it will kill 99.9% of viruses and bacteria, and then there's an asterisk. Reading the label, it tells me what specific viruses and bacteria it's been tested on and how long it takes to kill them (apparently from ten seconds to ten minutes, depending on the germ). That 99.9% means "this may not kill every last salmonella germ on your counter, but it will get awfully close." It doesn't mean "this will kill 99.9% of anything it comes in contact with."

All that being said, it can't hurt and might help, so swish away as an added precaution -- bearing in mind that COVID also enters and exits through the nose.

WW/BW

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zebra25 ( member #29431) posted at 5:56 PM on Friday, January 14th, 2022

Thanks for the extra info about the mouthwash.

It certainly can't hurt to swish!!!

"Don't let anyone who hasn't been in your shoes tell you how to tie your laces."

D-day April 2010

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BraveSirRobin ( Guide #69242) posted at 5:58 PM on Friday, January 14th, 2022

That is FALSE. Povidone-iodine(PVP-I) or cetylpyridinium chloride(CPC) have been tested and shown to reduce the viral load of Covid.

Scope is clarifying, accurately, that their mouthwash hasn't been proven to reduce viral load. Those chemicals have been shown to reduce viral load in a petri dish. There are trials in effectiveness of real world mouthwash use, but of course, you need people who have COVID to participate in the trials, so the work is ongoing. I hear there's a trial out of Penn State that's also experimenting with a 1% baby shampoo nasal wash.

Again, I'm not saying not to use it, just commenting on how to read and interpret data. In vitro (lab) results do not always replicate in vivo (the body). The preliminary results seem encouraging that this one does, at least for 30-60 minutes.

WW/BW

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zebra25 ( member #29431) posted at 6:02 PM on Friday, January 14th, 2022

So, is the quote from crest false?

Sorry, I'm not trying to be dense.

"Don't let anyone who hasn't been in your shoes tell you how to tie your laces."

D-day April 2010

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EllieKMAS ( member #68900) posted at 6:18 PM on Friday, January 14th, 2022

I am not risking my anonymity.

How could providing context for your claim of mass censorship of epidemiologists possibly be threatening to your anonymity W2BHA? Not trying to be snarky, but you are the one that has thrown out claims of all this censorship but then you seem unwilling to provide any sort of research that you have found to support those claims. Just seems like a disconnect to me.

Sorry but I'm with Dee - I stopped doing google searches about corona virus months and months ago because there was so. much. ridiculously. bad/dangerous/purposely misleading/fear mongering/flat out insane info out there that I deliberately chose to limit my covid searches only to sources that I personally trust like the CDC, my state's health page, and a select few news outlets. I personally have no interest in going down an internet bunny hole of covid-crazy to find out about supposed censorship when my internet time can be so much more happily spent online shopping and reading wikipedia articles about dinosaurs and watching hilarious tiktok videos.

"No, it's you mothafucka, here's a list of reasons why." – Iliza Schlesinger

"The love that you lost isn't worth what it cost and in time you'll be glad that it's gone." – Linkin Park

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 Want2BHappyAgain (original poster member #45088) posted at 7:08 PM on Friday, January 14th, 2022

Though mouthwash can partially kill off parts of the coronavirus in a person’s mouth, most infections occur through the nose, health experts said. "Even if gargling kills some of the virus, it won’t be able to clean the nasal area, nor the viruses that’s already penetrated deeper into the body," said Kim Woo-Joo, an infectious-disease expert at Korea University.

I AGREE with this...for when Covid enters through the nose...thank you for helping me prove my point smile . The infections occur through the nose...travel into the throat...before going into the lungs. You can't get to the lungs without going through the throat. Like I said...Oral anti-viral mouthwash helps to reduce the viral load in the throat. Reducing the viral load can keep people OUT of the hospital.

Careful with how you read that, though. It doesn't mean 99% of all germs in existence. It means 99% of the germs on which it has been proven effective.

I would have thought everybody knew this. But for those who didn't...thanks for clarifying it smile .

All that being said, it can't hurt and might help, so swish away as an added precaution -- bearing in mind that COVID also enters and exits through the nose.

That was MY thought too...finding ways to help FIGHT Covid smile . I saw where it was discussed that Covid could enter through the nose...mouth...and eyes. Has something changed since then?

So, is the quote from crest false?

I apologize zebra25.I didn't know that was a direct quote from Crest. THEY may not have tested the cetylpyridinium chloride(CPC) in the mouthwash I used...but it HAS been tested and shows promising results grin !!!

A "perfect marriage" is just two imperfect people who refuse to give up on each other.

With God ALL things are possible (Matthew 19:26)

I AM happy again...It CAN happen!!!

From respect comes great love...sassylee

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Seeking2Forgive ( member #78819) posted at 8:39 PM on Friday, January 14th, 2022

It's almost as though good practices for avoiding cold and flu are also helpful for battling random viruses. Who knew?

As far as I'm concerned if we can convince people to brush their teeth and use mouthwash more often, it's a win-win even if the COVID benefit is infinitesimal.

Talk about the nasal passage viral load makes me wonder how long it will be before we see some kind of anti-viral neti pot thing. And just "Hell no" on that.

[This message edited by Seeking2Forgive at 8:40 PM, Friday, January 14th]

Me: 60, BS -- Her: 59, FWS -- Dday: 11/15/03 -- Married 37 yrs -- Reconciled

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DaddyDom ( member #56960) posted at 9:52 PM on Friday, January 14th, 2022

EDIT: Removed post because the info was not 100% correct and don't want to spread misinformation

[This message edited by DaddyDom at 10:00 PM, Friday, January 14th]

Me: WS
BS: ISurvivedSoFar
D-Day Nov '16
Status: Reconciling
"I am floored by the amount of grace and love she has shown me in choosing to stay and fight for our marriage. I took everything from her, and yet she chose to forgive me."

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grubs ( member #77165) posted at 10:37 PM on Friday, January 14th, 2022

Talk about the nasal passage viral load makes me wonder how long it will be before we see some kind of anti-viral neti pot thing. And just "Hell no" on that.


Ask and you shall receive. Efficacy of a Nasal Spray Containing Iota-Carrageenan in the Postexposure Prophylaxis of COVID-19 in Hospital Personnel Dedicated to Patients Care with COVID-19 Disease

Low N in that study. There'd been other reports and a plausible mechanism so iota-carrageenan has been touted.

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million pieces ( member #27539) posted at 12:09 AM on Saturday, January 15th, 2022

Mouthwash goes into your mouth, not your throat.

There is a reason why you swab your nose and not your mouth.

Me - 50 D-Day 2/5/10, separated 3 wks later Divorced 11/15/11!!!!

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Seeking2Forgive ( member #78819) posted at 5:50 AM on Saturday, January 15th, 2022

Mouthwash goes into your mouth, not your throat.

There is a reason why you swab your nose and not your mouth.

Gargling with mouthwash or other solutions has been used as a way to treat the throat for ages.

The stories I'm reading suggest that the virus may be detectable in the throat before the nose. The reason there isn't a test approved for use with a throat swab is because it's harder to instruct someone on how to safely swab the throat than the nose.

Me: 60, BS -- Her: 59, FWS -- Dday: 11/15/03 -- Married 37 yrs -- Reconciled

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sisoon ( Moderator #31240) posted at 6:14 PM on Saturday, January 15th, 2022

I did the recommended search. The first result was from a website with a political agenda about a Rockefeller U professor. He espoused an anti-social-distancing position that flies in the face of what I learned about physics that's so basic that what I learned so long ago still holds. BTW, that website was not respectful of anyone who disagrees with them.

This 'censored' epidemiologist also said the epidemic could have been over in 3 or 4 weeks if NY had done things differently. That's just wrong. Covid-2 is just too infectious. Not publishing his views is not censorship - it's good journalism not to publish opinions that fly in the face of what we know. Could that guy be right? Sure. What's the likelihood he's right? Infinitesimal.... Ignoring him is the right way to go.

There is a lot of stuff about censorship of the Great Barrington Declaration. I don't see the GBD getting much traction among any scientists other than the ones who generated it. In the US there are plenty of rebels who love to resist authority. If there's a lot of data that supports the GBD, I'd expect it to be published in reputable media. The Chicago Tribune is no friend of this administration, and if there were good data that showed the current policies were wrong, I'm confident they'd publish it. Again, there's a difference between censorship and refusing to repeat words that are deemed unreliable by the vast majority of experts.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 9:06 AM, Sunday, January 16th]

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DDay - 12/22/2010
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You don't have to like your boundaries. You just have to set and enforce them.

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DevastatedDee ( member #59873) posted at 12:16 AM on Sunday, January 16th, 2022

Again, there's a difference between censorship and refusing to repeat words that are deemed unreliable by the vast majority of experts.

Yeah. That.

DDay: 06/07/2017
MH - RA on DDay.
Divorced a serial cheater (prostitutes and lord only knows who and what else).

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DevastatedDee ( member #59873) posted at 12:28 AM on Sunday, January 16th, 2022

I encounter similar things working at an animal shelter. There are people who believe that dogs shouldn't be given vaccines or medication of any kind. When they want to adopt a dog from us but they have no records of any kind of vaccines or vet care for the dogs they already have, they get turned down. Then they get angry and accuse us of discrimination because it's "just a matter of opinion". But it isn't a matter of opinion. We see enough dogs come in with parvo or heartworms to know that it isn't a matter of opinion. They sometimes die in our care because it's too little too late. Parvo, rabies, distemper, heartworms...those things don't care about opinions. We aren't giving dogs to people who are telling us up-front that they have no intention of doing things to keep them healthy. You can find holistic veterinarians who don't do vaccines and medications, but they don't deserve equal billing with the majority of the veterinary world. They aren't the same.

You can find doctors and epidemiologists who recommend things that fly in the face of science and reality too. It isn't a matter of opinion.

[This message edited by DevastatedDee at 12:29 AM, Sunday, January 16th]

DDay: 06/07/2017
MH - RA on DDay.
Divorced a serial cheater (prostitutes and lord only knows who and what else).

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 Want2BHappyAgain (original poster member #45088) posted at 6:58 PM on Sunday, January 16th, 2022

It's almost as though good practices for avoiding cold and flu are also helpful for battling random viruses. Who knew?

That is what I have been practicing since the start of this...and so far it is working smile .

As far as I'm concerned if we can convince people to brush their teeth and use mouthwash more often, it's a win-win even if the COVID benefit is infinitesimal.

I agree grin !! This antiviral mouthwash isn't so bad...so it was an easy switch from my other one grin .

Talk about the nasal passage viral load makes me wonder how long it will be before we see some kind of anti-viral neti pot thing. And just "Hell no" on that.

No neti pot for me either!! But I do use nasal sprays for my allergies religiously. I wouldn't have ANY issue using a nasal spray to FIGHT Covid smile .

grubs...like I said in one of my previous posts about you...your posts are concise...informative...and without prejudice smile . Thank you!!!

Gargling with mouthwash or other solutions has been used as a way to treat the throat for ages.

I'm one of those who has treated my sore throat by gargling for ages...and it helps grin !!

I did the recommended search.

I am very HAPPY to see people doing searches using other search engines instead of just google smile . Not everyone feels comfortable to post on THIS thread...but I do appreciate those who are telling me through PM's what THEY have found...which is quite different from the majority of posts done publicly on here who have done the search. This thread IS getting people searching...and questioning with an open mind smile .

Again, there's a difference between censorship and refusing to repeat words that are deemed unreliable by the vast majority of experts.

I believe Dr. Bennet Omalu would say differently about this...among others. The TRUTH is coming out despite all of the censorship and other tactics being used by mainstream media smile .

A "perfect marriage" is just two imperfect people who refuse to give up on each other.

With God ALL things are possible (Matthew 19:26)

I AM happy again...It CAN happen!!!

From respect comes great love...sassylee

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 Want2BHappyAgain (original poster member #45088) posted at 7:20 PM on Sunday, January 16th, 2022

After discussing this with others who aren't comfortable writing in this post...they have brought up some comments that I think are good with tweaking the list about Covid that has come up from several posters on here. I will show the original post from the list and explain why it is being changed smile . If anyone wants to post more...please feel free to do so grin !

The first change is for the following on the list:

3. Vaccines are effective at reducing the transmission of severe disease (not 100%)

Someone mentioned that this should read that vaccines are effective at reducing the severity of illness and hospitalizations for those infected with Covid. That makes sense...but the vaccines HAVE been effective at reducing the transmission of Covid in previous variants...so I will change it to that smile . Because of this...I will also change #5. The original post was this:

5. Monoclonal antibodies are a treatment that can be effective at reducing the chance of severe illness in people who have already been infected. Most are more effective in treating previous strains of Covid than they are in treating Omicron.

I changed it in the list below. Here is the updated list from previous posts:

1. Covid is real (not a hoax).
2. Masks are effective at reducing the transmission of disease (not 100%)
3. Vaccines have been effective at reducing the transmission of Covid (not 100%). They are very effective at reducing the severity of illness and hospitalizations for those with breakthrough infections.(not 100%)
4. The vast majority of people do not experience severe side effects from the vaccines.
5. Monoclonal antibodies are a treatment that are very effective at reducing the severity of illness and hospitalization for those infected with Covid. These treatments are most effective if done before the viral load becomes too high...within 10 days of symptoms. Most are more effective in treating previous strains of Covid than they are in treating Omicron.
6. Unvaccinated people who get covid are significantly more likely than vaccinated people to get severe illness and require hospitalization.
7. Hospital resources are not unlimited and are already strained.
8. The more people that are infected with Covid, the more likely the virus is to mutate.
9. We do not know whether the treatments we do have against covid (vaccines, monoclonal antibodies) will be effective against new strains of the virus.
10. Sunlight and alcohol help to kill the virus (not 100%)
11. Most hand sanitizers approved for use contain alcohol (ethanol), isopropyl alcohol, or benzalkonium chloride (BZK).
12. Reducing the viral load can keep people from having to go into the hospital.
13. Some viruses tend to mutate to become more contagious but less deadly to the host.
14. Some vitamins can help boost the immune system.
15. New vaccines are being tested to combat the virus and not have adverse reactions that other vaccines have had.
16. Oral anti-viral mouthwash helps to reduce the viral load in the throat.

Someone else brought up something that I missed...and I couldn't believe I did that!! Thanks so much everyone for helping me with this grin .

17. Washing hands and social distancing are effective at reducing the transmission of Covid.

A "perfect marriage" is just two imperfect people who refuse to give up on each other.

With God ALL things are possible (Matthew 19:26)

I AM happy again...It CAN happen!!!

From respect comes great love...sassylee

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zebra25 ( member #29431) posted at 8:28 PM on Sunday, January 16th, 2022

"The TRUTH is coming out despite all of the censorship and other tactics being used by mainstream media smile ."

What truth? Asking a sincere, polite question. If I missed it in your post I apologize in advance.

"Don't let anyone who hasn't been in your shoes tell you how to tie your laces."

D-day April 2010

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sisoon ( Moderator #31240) posted at 11:26 PM on Sunday, January 16th, 2022

Amalu identified CTE in NFL players. He was ignored at first because doing so was in the interest of the NFL owners and their supporters. Amalu kept bringing data to others and eventually won his point. Other than that, DuckDuckGo doesn't bring up anything current except a Deutsche Welle story about brain damage due to Covid from some English docs; Amalu isn't mentioned in the article, so I don't know why it came up from a search on 'Amalu covid'.

Note: Amalu kept presenting his data, and he convinced, among others, reporters from the mainstream media of the correctness of his views. He did not push his data beyond its limits. What we're seeing from anti-vax forces is different: not much data, reading things into data that aren't there, accusations of conspiracies, etc. I can be persuaded by data and transparency much more easily than by innuendo.

Note also that we aren't getting much info on who benefits from the misinformation or who finances it.

*****

I'm using the Brave browser (still not fully sold on it, though) and I've used DuckDuckGo as my default search engine for years, except when M$ jams Bing down my throat. I avoid Chrome whenever I can; alas, some sites just don't display properly on Firefox, Brave, Opera, Edge or anything else I've tried.

fBH (me) - on d-day: 66, Married 43, together 45, same sex ap
DDay - 12/22/2010
Recover'd and R'ed
You don't have to like your boundaries. You just have to set and enforce them.

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DevastatedDee ( member #59873) posted at 2:24 AM on Monday, January 17th, 2022

I believe Dr. Bennet Omalu would say differently about this...among others. The TRUTH is coming out despite all of the censorship and other tactics being used by mainstream media

But what TRUTH? What is this truth? What is this thing that I'm failing to figure out all by myself because I have no idea exactly what I'm looking for? I can't evaluate it, look into it, think about it or anything. If you want it to come out, wouldn't you help spread the word about it? Is it that you think we'll take a look at it and find it unconvincing? So what if we do? If it's truth, why wouldn't it be readily apparent to us that it is real? I'm not here with an agenda. I have no political or faith beliefs in this pandemic situation. I don't view it through a lense that requires me to be right about any particular thing. I'm interested in things that are real and if this is a thing that is real, I am happy to be told about it.

DDay: 06/07/2017
MH - RA on DDay.
Divorced a serial cheater (prostitutes and lord only knows who and what else).

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