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How did you know you were done?

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 Felix12306 (original poster member #78827) posted at 8:27 PM on Sunday, October 3rd, 2021

Looking advice from people who didn't reconcile and knew when they were done? I don't know if I'm just going deeper into depression but all of a sudden over the last week or so I'm not sure anymore. The biggest thing is I still think he is lying about some details of his affair and he can't convince me otherwise. Things just don't add up. Cheating has always been a deal-breaker for me and of course now that I'm here I'm not sure that it is? My father cheated on my mother their entire marriage before they finally separated after 20 years of his crap. I seen what that did to my mom and I don't want to be her, she is bitter and negative all the time and never got help to deal with her pain. I swore to myself I would never marry somebody like my father. I just wish he could see that him being honest is going to be way more helpful than it will be painful. And he doesn't see that or he refuses to. I'm just really struggling and I'm crying all the time again. I know no nobody can answer that for me what I'm really asking is what made you know it was time to end things? I am in IC and a group for betreyed spouses. The group has only just started and we've only had one group session.

BS Together for 15 years, married for 11. Dd 1/28/21 after a 44-day affair, only last week of affair was physical but didn't find that out until 6/18/21.

posts: 158   ·   registered: May. 19th, 2021
id 8691454
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leafields ( member #63517) posted at 10:11 PM on Sunday, October 3rd, 2021

My XH was going to IC, but that was about it. I knew about a year after d-day that he wasn't doing the work. It took me a little bit longer to process. During this time, I realized that I'd been very unhappy during the last 10 years we were together.

At about 18 months after his A, we were in MC and he confessed that when he was back visiting his sister he got high with his 32 year-old niece. She passed out & he groped her. Then confessed in a text message that he was very attracted to her. (She told him he had to tell me or she would.)

I was done.

I had nightmares for about 2 years. I am still hypervigilant and have issues when I'm in a car with other cars whizzing by or coming up to stop signs/lights really quickly. My concentration is shot, but meditation is helping.

My XH was a huge liar. His normal mode of operating was gaslighting. It has been so freeing to be away from him. We were married 34 years. Now, I'm working on getting to the, "not my circus, not my monkey" phase. We were together so long that it has been difficult, but it's getting easier every day.

Healing got a lot easier after I moved into my own place and started IC with a betrayal specialist.

Lea
Me: BW
Married 34 years, 3 DS
DDay #1: March 26, 2018, DDay #2 8/26/2019
Filed for D: 11/16/2020
D Final: 2/25/2021

posts: 689   ·   registered: Apr. 21st, 2018   ·   location: Washington State
id 8691462
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DevastatedDee ( member #59873) posted at 10:15 PM on Sunday, October 3rd, 2021

What made me done with any relationship, not just with my XWH, was when home no longer felt safe to me. It doesn't matter what's making it feel unsafe. An unsafe home affects my entire life. I have a deep need to have a safe home base. When my XWH cheated, he made my home unsafe. As long as he was in it, my home was going to feel unsafe. The only way to remedy that was to make a new home that he wasn't in. I knew I was done on Dday and I knew that it was at it's core because of that reason. He had shown himself to be unsafe and therefore didn't belong in my home base anymore.

DDay: 06/07/2017
MH - RA on DDay.
Divorced a serial cheater (prostitutes and lord only knows who and what else).

posts: 4632   ·   registered: Jul. 27th, 2017
id 8691463
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EmbraceTheChange ( member #43247) posted at 11:27 PM on Sunday, October 3rd, 2021

I was done when I realized that my husband was stirring shit on purpose, because he could, instead of calming the situation. He acted as he was in a sitcom and his invisible audience would be clapping to his clever come-backs (and I was the butt of his jokes).

I can't change the direction of the wind, but I can adjust my sails to always reach my destination

posts: 1229   ·   registered: Apr. 27th, 2014   ·   location: Near Fort Worth, TX
id 8691468
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Bigger ( Guide #8354) posted at 12:12 AM on Monday, October 4th, 2021

What could he do to convince you?
What would happen if he sat down and answered all your questions 100% honestly?

Consider those two questions:
If he thinks telling you more would be a deal-breaker he won’t tell you more.
At the same time if he get’s away with secrets it makes the difficult job of reconciling impossible.

Consider this approach:
Tell him your doubts and how you don’t think you want to work towards reconciliation while you are not certain you have the truth. Tell him that at the moment you are going to end the marriage. This is not because of the affair, but rather because you sense he doesn’t trust you with the truth. His only option to save it is by telling you the total and utter truth. If he isn’t willing to do this then you intend to start the process of divorce.
If he is willing to be honest then now is his chance. Make it clear that if he does this then you will hold back on filing for 30-60 days while you allow yourself time to absorb the truth and see if you can reconcile from the "new" truth.
Make one thing clear to him: The problem is a trust issue. You don’t have trust in him, especially since you suspect he still holds secrets. If he tells you the truth and if you think he’s being truthful then you will give him the chance of establishing trust by taking a polygraph. That might take place a week later or four weeks later. If he passes that poly you have a base you could work from. If he fails… it just goes to show that R isn’t possible.

"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

posts: 10012   ·   registered: Sep. 29th, 2005
id 8691475
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 Felix12306 (original poster member #78827) posted at 1:13 AM on Monday, October 4th, 2021

I have made it clear as glass that it is not a deal breaker to tell me more. In fact I have made it even more clear that in telling me the truth that it will do alot for me and us. He says he is being honest. I feel like at this point as many times as he has assured me his answered will not change that he is going to think he can never be honest. And that doesn't leave us with anything. Even after he has assured me, if he came to me tomorrow and finally laid it all out I will still want R 100%.

It would prove he respects me, and really wants R, and will show I can give him a little trust. Because from where I stand, he doesn't want R if he can't be honest and show me some respect.

BS Together for 15 years, married for 11. Dd 1/28/21 after a 44-day affair, only last week of affair was physical but didn't find that out until 6/18/21.

posts: 158   ·   registered: May. 19th, 2021
id 8691485
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Bigger ( Guide #8354) posted at 1:17 AM on Monday, October 4th, 2021

What could he do to convince you?

"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

posts: 10012   ·   registered: Sep. 29th, 2005
id 8691486
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Gottagetthrough ( member #27325) posted at 2:44 AM on Monday, October 4th, 2021

Reconcilled for several years after ow1. After ow2, ten yrs later, thought, eh, maybe we can get through this?

Nah. Theres work to be done and I just dont care. Wh is mad? I used to talk to him about it. Now, i just walk away because i dont care.

The not caring is how i know im done

posts: 3638   ·   registered: Jan. 22nd, 2010
id 8691494
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 Felix12306 (original poster member #78827) posted at 3:35 AM on Monday, October 4th, 2021

@BIGGER

That's the problem. Idk if there is anything. The only answer I can come up with is.. him just be fucking honest. So idk what to do with that.

BS Together for 15 years, married for 11. Dd 1/28/21 after a 44-day affair, only last week of affair was physical but didn't find that out until 6/18/21.

posts: 158   ·   registered: May. 19th, 2021
id 8691501
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nekonamida ( member #42956) posted at 2:17 PM on Monday, October 4th, 2021

Felix, is this something where he says one thing but you found evidence pointing to something else, something that doesn't add up about his story, or something you feel in your gut is true? Would he take a polygraph test to prove it to you?

posts: 5065   ·   registered: Mar. 31st, 2014   ·   location: United States
id 8691540
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Blandy ( member #79252) posted at 2:55 PM on Monday, October 4th, 2021

I knew I was done when she told me that she should have slept with the dude instead of just kiss. Up until that sentence, I was not even aware that anything *could* have been happening. In fact, to this day, I don't even know if it's true or if she was just trying to get a rise out of me. But my brain worked in the lines of if it's true, then I have zero tolerance of cheating. If she was getting a rise, then I wasn't going to spend my life under that kind of manipulation.

You'll know you're finished when you have no fear of the future or what happens if you move on.

posts: 106   ·   registered: Aug. 8th, 2021   ·   location: TX
id 8691542
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sisoon ( Guide #31240) posted at 3:29 PM on Monday, October 4th, 2021

I wonder if it's more than just the truth that is missing.

If you were as sure as you can be that he's truthful, would you want to spend the rest of your life with him? If not ... there's your answer. If so, then would a poly help you believe him? Note that a poly would be limited to a few questions that can be answered with unequivocal 'yes' or 'no'. Will you leave if he fails a poly?

Infidelity is often thought of as a deal-breaker, but we hold other values that aren't so clear - love, forgiveness, years of healthy bonding, kids, M vows that the BS has kept, etc., etc., etc. For every piece of conventional wisdom that says 'D', there's another piece that says, 'R'.

IOW, choosing to stay is supported by values that are simply different from those that support cutting the WS out. Now, faced with a WS, a BS has to choose which values to uphold and which to ...sorry... betray. IRL, for most of us, it's not a simple decision - and no matter which way you choose, you can beat yourself up for not choosing the other.

My response is: if your WS - and you - will do the work of R, and if you want to R, then R. If you you want to D, or if your WS won't do the work of R, then D. IMO, choosing what you want, given your circumstances (remorseful/unremorseful WS), is the best way to quiet the voices that tell you you're wrong.

*****

The exception to 'do what you want' is when avoiding conflict is what you want.

Healing from infidelity is impossible without conflict.

****

I'm with Bigger - sit your H down, tell him you won't stay if you don't believe him, and see how he responds. And if he gets honest at the conversation, keep his feet to the fire - R requires no more lies, ever ... with possible exceptions in answering 'do I look bad?' or a surprise gift that you're absolutely sure is wanted.

[This message edited by sisoon at 3:37 PM, Monday, October 4th]

fBH (me) - on d-day: 66, Married 43, together 45, same sex ap
DDay - 12/22/2010
Recover'd and R'ed
You don't have to like your boundaries. You just have to set and enforce them.

posts: 26262   ·   registered: Feb. 18th, 2011   ·   location: Illinois
id 8691549
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Charity411 ( member #41033) posted at 7:55 PM on Monday, October 4th, 2021

I knew I was done because of the lies. It was abundantly clear that nothing he was saying to explain away the time he was spending with his best friends's wife made any sense. The explanations became more and more outlandish. He even took her to the Ballet in Chicago without her husband. They took a limo while I was running our B&B 130 miles away struggling to cash flow it. The explanation for this was utterly ridiculous, but he expected me to believe it if I loved him.

After many years of thought, I've come to realize the lies were far more damaging than the sex. The ability to look me in the eye and make up whoppers and expect me to believe them, because I was his wife and it was somehow my duty. The sex was about his need to feel like a stud that could beat out other men, including his best friend of 22 years. The lies that he told me were a direct reflection of what he thought of me, and that I couldn't live with. That wasn't what our vows were about.

He did eventually come clean, but not until after I filed for divorce. And even then it wasn't completely clean. I'll never know the half of it. During our deposition my attorney produced evidence that he was sleeping with two of OWs friends at the same time. And they were sisters. He bought us all the same sweater for Christmas, each in a different color. That says it all.

posts: 1541   ·   registered: Oct. 18th, 2013   ·   location: Illinois
id 8691585
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crazyblindsided ( member #35215) posted at 9:10 PM on Monday, October 4th, 2021

I knew I was DONE when the pain of staying was worse than the pain of leaving.

fBS/fWS(me):48 Mad-hattered after DD1
XWS:51 Serial Cheater, NPD tendencies
Together 25 years, Married 19
DD(18) DS(15)
DD1 (2008) COW, DD2 (2012) MOW, False R (2014) Same MOW. DD3 (2019) Webcam girl

posts: 8080   ·   registered: Apr. 2nd, 2012   ·   location: California
id 8691597
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Stayinghopefull ( member #57957) posted at 9:29 PM on Monday, October 4th, 2021

Because he kept repeating the same behavior. Saying he would change but never did. I can’t prove any recent PAs but he has been exchanging numbers and texting with random girls that are 25 years younger that us. This last one I found out about I haven’t even asked him who she is because I don’t care. I am done!

Joined SI 17 years ago when H had year long affair.
Found 5 new OW in the past 6 months. Heading towards D.
Two wonderful teen kids that don't deserve this.
Me: BS 48 H: WS 50 Together 27 yrs, Married 22 yrs

posts: 98   ·   registered: Mar. 23rd, 2017
id 8691602
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 Felix12306 (original poster member #78827) posted at 9:43 PM on Monday, October 4th, 2021

nekonamida

Well here is the thing. She told me that he said he was falling for her. He says that isn't true. She also told me that he said he was only going to work it out for the kids. He says that also isn't true. She says he was still going into the gas station she worked at after I found out and he ended it and would pay cash so I didn't know he was going in there, she says he did that 3-4 times for about two weeks after, he says that didn't happen.

He was at work when I found out and I called him and confronted him and told him to send her a text message that it was done and to block her and then screenshot me what he sent her and send it to me, and he did... However his text records show that she sent him one first, then he sent two. But he only showed me the one he sent. So I even have undeniable proof right there for that one but he still says that there was nothing else. He also says she never admitted feelings to him however I think that's a lie too because it doesn't add up as she sent him that Sugarland song "Stay" which is literally an OW singing about how heartbroken she is that he hasn't left his wife for her like he says he is going to. He claims she never admitted to feelings, he won't even look back at it and see that the signs were there, giving him the benefit of the doubt that he ignored them because he didn't want that. He says he doesn't care if she had feelings so he can't look back at it to try and see that the signs were there.

He told me that he told her from the get-go he had no intention of leaving me even though I was so horrible rolleyes , and that he didn't want anything to do with feelings whenever she told him that feelings would develop. He said he made it clear to her that if she developed feelings she would have to let him know because then it would have to stop.

She also told me that he told her that he was going to be leaving me. He denies this as well.

I am very understanding that she is a lier as well and did lie to me about somethings. Like she told me it was physical for the last "3 weeks or so" which I know to be a lie for a fact. She also lied to me in the beginning about it being physical before she finally admitted to that. And I know that she has every reason to lie to make things worse on him when after 5 months she realized she wasn't going to be getting him back and that's when she finally admitted it was physical. She told me in the beginning she was trying to protect him and that's why she lied because I'm pretty positive she was sure that he would come running for her.

I know she had deep feelings for him based off of things that she has posted on social media.. quotes and such about being heartbroken, And not regretting the love she gave that she didn't get back.. ect.

I try to keep an open mind, and think that maybe she never did tell him she had feelings since he supposedly made it clear that if she developed feelings it would have to end. So I think maybe she didn't share her feelings because she didn't want it to end? Is that a rational of me? Is that me trying to justify this for him? I don't know I'm just so lost.

Also I asked him if she went down on him and he told me yes and then I asked him again about a month later and he told me no, and when I confronted him on it at first he said he couldn't remember, but he remembered a month ago so I found that pretty weird. He also said that he gets worried when I ask questions that he won't answer fast enough and it will seem like he is trying to lie or come up with a story so he answered the second time without really thinking.

Anyway, these are the things I feel like he's lying about. He answers a lot of questions and has given me details that I have asked for about what positions they were in etc... So I don't know if that actually means anything.

BS Together for 15 years, married for 11. Dd 1/28/21 after a 44-day affair, only last week of affair was physical but didn't find that out until 6/18/21.

posts: 158   ·   registered: May. 19th, 2021
id 8691604
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HellFire ( member #59305) posted at 9:49 PM on Monday, October 4th, 2021

A passed polygraph would go a long way in helping you get out of where you are right now. And since he swears he's told you everything, he should jump at the chance to help you.

Schedule the polygraph. Make it a requirement for R.

posts: 3780   ·   registered: Jun. 20th, 2017   ·   location: The Midwest
id 8691605
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 Felix12306 (original poster member #78827) posted at 10:11 PM on Monday, October 4th, 2021

Sissoon

If I was as sure as I can be that he is being truthful then I definitely want to R. I may have to go the polygraph route. He is an individual counseling and a group for unfaithful men. That hasn't started yet and doesn't start until the 14th. Will also be doing a couple's EMS weekend for people going through infidelity. That isn't until early November.

My hope is that through his group and that EMS weekend that he will start to get it and realize there can't be any more lies and be honest with me. So my plan is to wait until after those things and see if he decides to come clean about the things I still question the truth on, or continue with telling me he is being honest about those things. If he says he is still being honest about those things then I will bring up a Poly.

BS Together for 15 years, married for 11. Dd 1/28/21 after a 44-day affair, only last week of affair was physical but didn't find that out until 6/18/21.

posts: 158   ·   registered: May. 19th, 2021
id 8691608
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phmh ( member #34146) posted at 1:23 AM on Tuesday, October 5th, 2021

Definitely quit telling him that things are deal breakers if you have no intent of divorcing him for one of them, as it will just make him respect you even less than he does right now. I know this is hard, because you think if you say the right thing, you can make him become a good, honest, faithful person, but it doesn't work that way. It just entrenches you in doormat status.

One thing I'd recommend (and this is why I ultimately decided to D even though my WXH was begging me to reconcile) is ask for a post-nup that is favorable to you (assuming they are legal in your state) that comes into play if (your condition). Even if they are not legal in your state (assuming he's not a lawyer) his reaction might tell you if he even has any desire to try to stay faithful.

As my WXH was telling me he'd do anything to reconcile, I told him to sign a post-nup guaranteeing me my current salary plus 3% annual increase because I would have to quit my new job to follow him to his job. That only came into play if he cheated - if we divorced for any other reason, post-nup would be void. (He was a physician finishing his fellowship and couldn't get a full time position in our town because he was sleeping with a coworker instead of seeing patients, so he had to move). And he only had to make up the difference between the job that I could find and the job that I gave up to follow him. And only if he cheated again!

Anyway, the details don't really matter because he told me I was being punitive and I should just trust him to be faithful. So much for his claim he'd do anything to make us work again!

I know several people who got post-nups after infidelity; every single one of their partners cheated again and they came out better in their divorce. I also know several people who didn't ask for this, fearing they'd anger the WS. They all ended up divorced as well, but in a more precarious financial situation.

Please protect your future self financially. Past behavior is by far the best predictor of future behavior, no matter how much many people wish that weren't the case.

Me: BW, divorced, now fabulous and happy!

Married: 11 years, no kids

Character is destiny

posts: 4978   ·   registered: Dec. 8th, 2011
id 8691636
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phmh ( member #34146) posted at 1:24 AM on Tuesday, October 5th, 2021

Definitely quit telling him that things are deal breakers if you have no intent of divorcing him for one of them, as it will just make him respect you even less than he does right now. I know this is hard, because you think if you say the right thing, you can make him become a good, honest, faithful person, but it doesn't work that way. It just entrenches you in doormat status.

One thing I'd recommend (and this is why I ultimately decided to D even though my WXH was begging me to reconcile) is ask for a post-nup that is favorable to you (assuming they are legal in your state) that comes into play if (your condition). Even if they are not legal in your state (assuming he's not a lawyer) his reaction might tell you if he even has any desire to try to stay faithful.

As my WXH was telling me he'd do anything to reconcile, I told him to sign a post-nup guaranteeing me my current salary plus 3% annual increase because I would have to quit my new job to follow him to his job. That only came into play if he cheated - if we divorced for any other reason, post-nup would be void. (He was a physician finishing his fellowship and couldn't get a full time position in our town because he was sleeping with a coworker instead of seeing patients, so he had to move). And he only had to make up the difference between the job that I could find and the job that I gave up to follow him. And only if he cheated again!

Anyway, the details don't really matter because he told me I was being punitive and I should just trust him to be faithful. So much for his claim he'd do anything to make us work again!

I know several people who got post-nups after infidelity; every single one of their partners cheated again and they came out better in their divorce. I also know several people who didn't ask for this, fearing they'd anger the WS. They all ended up divorced as well, but in a more precarious financial situation.

Please protect your future self financially. Past behavior is by far the best predictor of future behavior, no matter how much many people wish that weren't the case.

Me: BW, divorced, now fabulous and happy!

Married: 11 years, no kids

Character is destiny

posts: 4978   ·   registered: Dec. 8th, 2011
id 8691637
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