SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Ivermectin is a medication that treats some parasitic diseases.

Then for Christ's sake, do a scientifically peer-reviewed and published study that shows it works for a novel virus, and not a parasite. It is not without its own set of risks for certain populations.

That's how science works - double-blind studies that are peer-reviewed. As the science learns more, we adapt.

There are people who should not be getting the vaccine, and I am 100% certain that those of us here on SI who support the science behind vaccines, know there are people who shouldn't be getting it, and there is absolutely no shame in making that choice. If anything, those who can't get it should be behind the eight ball in encouraging those who can, but won't because they want to choose non-scientifically proven routes, to get it to protect those who can't.

Every damned procedure/medication/treatment for pretty much every damned illness/injury has risks. Why do you think the inserts in prescriptions are so long? If everyone read the entire thing, no one would take any medication. People get very sick from chemo, and some die from the side effects, but are we going to stop administering it because of that? No, because it has also saved countless lives. When we accepted that second-hand smoke killed those around smokers, we banned indoor smoking in public places. Mitigation comes in many forms, depending on the risk. But it has been proven over and over and over again that the mandates being given, are helpful. Perfect? No, but extremely helpful.

Science has provided my family with a very comfortable lifestyle because my H spent six years doing post-graduate studies which landed him a respectable job in the pharmaceutical industry, at which he advanced nicely. It didn't come without its costs, meaning there was little work/life balance. But you know what? He continued to develop his sense of respecting the scientific process throughout his career, and particularly as it played out in the pharmaceutical industry. You wouldn't want someone who spent two years earning an associate's degree in charge of making drugs. You need HIGHLY educated scientists who have the respect, industry-wide. Yet, even they are subject to peer-review, and I can tell you, people lose their jobs over not conforming to the scientific process, as it should be.

So yea, I trust the science of vaccines/mask-wearing/hand-washing/avoiding large crowds, etc. Until I can see some double-blind/peer-reviewed articles supporting the other off-label drugs, I will roll my eyes at anyone who chooses them over a proven vaccine. Interestingly, at my husband's company (although it is a small start-up), no one has gotten COVID, nor any of their spouses/children. They are all Ph.D. level scientists, and respect the science. Now, they aren't responsible for patient care in any way, so they have no real dealings with the public, but every one of them took the vaccine - they all wear masks anytime they're at work, but not in their office with the door closed (then they can remove their masks), and they all avoid gatherings of large crowds. Because they understand the scientific process and what the current studies prove works. Unfortunately, not everyone has that luxury, but at least in this case, the science is working.

Don't even get me started on the cost that is being realized in health care and burn out. It is abundantly clear that the majority of people in ICUs, which require lower staff to patient ratios, are unvaccinated. These people are burned out and leaving the field at unprecedented numbers... and it trickles down to the rest of the health care system. People are being called up to work ICUs from other departments, who don't have the experience. In my own doctor's small office, he is having problems keeping staff due to how demanding people have become, and how absolutely crazy it is to do the job. People are showing up in the parking lot, calling and saying they need a test because they think they have COVID. I mean, WTF? No wonder staff are getting burned out.

One last reiteration... if those who are eligible to get vaxed, would, we wouldn't be putting the strain on the health care system that we are - and it's not just the nurses, physicians, and ERs. It's all the support staff, from the cafeteria workers, janitors, medical transcribers, patient techs, PTs, OTs, phlebotomists, radiology support, etc. When they are quitting, others must step in and do their jobs. So enough, care enough about others to adhere to your public health department's guidelines. And I say your because each locality/region has different recommendations depending on what's happening in their area. For instance, in CA, although we have a lot of cases, we are very low compared to the rest of the country, so recommendations for a place like New York, wouldn't necessarily apply to CA.

End of rant.

I think you need to reread the charter of rights ans freedoms again.

Reasonable limits, DH. Not discrimination. And while people do have the right to believe COVID isn’t a big deal for them, after 2 years, we know it isn’t a big deal for 99% of the population. That’s not everybody but it’s pretty close.

[This message edited by Loukas at 9:52 PM, Wednesday, January 5th]

COVID isn’t a big deal for them, after 2 years, we know it isn’t a big deal for 99% of the population. That’s not everybody but it’s pretty close.

This might be the single most discouraging, bordering on disgusting comment that I have read or heard in the past 2 years. Truly. See Loukas, the thing is, you have ZERO idea into which group you will fall until it is too late. If you happen to be one of those unfortunate 1% that you don’t GAF about. I realize I’m wasting the precious little breath I still have on this. Maybe it will get through to someone else. I have seen 98+ year old hospice patients who tested positive, ran a fever for a couple of days and fully recovered. I’ve also watched friends grieve for losing a husband or wife who had no comorbidities and no typical risk factors. Their bodies just were no match for how the virus attacked them.

You’re tired of it? I have coworkers who are working 60+ hours a week, flipping back and forth from nights to days in order to keep our building staffed. My administrator, the boss of the place, is working 7 days a week. Serving meals in the dining room or sitting with a screaming patient to free up the care staff. We. Are. Exhausted. And I have absolutely no patience left for anyone who balks at wearing a damn mask.

Ok then lets look at occupation and equality rights.

Carissima Mathen, a professor of law at the University of Ottawa who specializes in the Constitution.

She states:

Coercion and occupation

Challenges that would be more viable under the charter could be levied at government employers such as Alberta Health Services and the City of Calgary, which have mandated employees be fully vaccinated by Oct. 31, 2021.

But as with all vaccine mandates in Canada, these employees aren't being forced to get the jab — they are still being presented with a choice.

They can choose to work somewhere else.

"The question would be whether that's still a form of coercion, even if it's indirect," Mathen said.

"You might be able to get over that hurdle and show that the state is putting pressure on you to make a certain kind of decision."

But under Section 7 alone, Mathen says, this would still likely not be enough for vaccine-mandated employees to be successful.

The courts have been very clear that it does not include a right to a specific occupation, she said.

"You'd have to make a broader argument that is unrelated to the mere fact that you want to work in a particular place," Mathen said.

Equality rights under the charter

The equality rights protected under the charter's Section 15 emphasize the right to be free of discrimination based on race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, sex, age or mental or physical disability.

In order to argue that your rights under the charter's equality guarantees have been violated, a person would have to show a link between the mandate and one of these personal characteristics, Mathen said.

"It can't just be you're being treated differently from other people because you don't want to get vaccinated," she said.

You can claim discrimination all you want but under our charter of rights and freedoms being denied access to indoor dining because of vaccination status is not discrimination. You ARE free to order take out.

Again never the point i was trying to make. The rage people express is a bit much for adults who are capable of critical thinking.

Contain your outrage, HF. I never said I didn’t care about the 1%. As a matter of fact, I touched on it in my second to last post to DH with regards to nursing homes. I do worry about the 1%, as I do for the 15% being discriminated against or those in the 84% who have had their business closed without fair compensation. Or the children who’s education is suffering. And those who have lost employment. The families who are struggling more than ever due to skyrocketing prices. Bad policies effect much much more than the 1%. So do me a favour a don’t assume my motivations or beliefs. I’m not your stereotyped anti-masker, anti-vaxxer. I’m just not blinded by fear. I mean it might seem so simple, but if we quit stealing people’s freedoms, we’d likely receive more willingness. But since the very first action taken was to steal freedoms, it might be very hard to put that genie back in the bottle. And I’m not talking about masks and social distancing, because we all know that wasn’t the first step.

As for 60+ hour work weeks. After a lifetime of construction work. You’ll get little sympathy from me for two years of it. Might sound dickish, but very true.

[This message edited by Loukas at 10:35 PM, Wednesday, January 5th]

DH, hindsight will be everything.

You’ll get little sympathy from me for two years of it.

Do you even understand how physically demanding health care jobs can be?? But that's not the worse part of it; it's the emotional toll that is so exhausting. It is known that health care workers are suffering from PTSD due to this pandemic. You don't know how demanding it is unless you've done it. Being the front-line workers. Sorry, that doesn't apply to construction work. May sound dickish, but very true.

Number4, clearly you’ve never worked construction.

Theres nothing in hindsight about it.

We are in the middle of a global health crisis.

Whether YOU are part of that 1% or not thats still a hell of a lot of people that are dying, a lot of people requiring hospitalization, a lot of people taking up medical resources that are in limited supply...

The mandates are still considered a reasonable limit to individuals for the protection of everyone.

business closed without fair compensation.

I can sorta agree with you there.

Theres been a lot of dragging feet on assistance for businesses and the general joe blow. Thats the powers that be for you. When have they ever provided swift financial compensation?!? Come on.

There are many business rebates and financial assistance that has been provided that people AREN'T USING!!! Thats the fault of the people, not those who have provided it. Its there.

I do believe that everyone should be entitled to paid sick leave. How can anyone expect people to stay home when sick when their mortgage company is not deferring payments, they still need to buy food and pay rent and utilities.

I mean its maddening.

I get that.

As for 60+ hour work weeks. After a lifetime of construction work. You’ll get little sympathy from me for two years of it. Might sound dickish, but very true.

Dickish is mild to what i want to say. My hubby does 70+ hours/week in construction. I have NO doubt his job is hard.

I also know that being covered in blood and shit and watching people die is a hell of a lot harder on the average person than construction.

I did 17 hour shifts, responsible for an entire home of clients. I would take construction over going back to that any day!

As for 60+ hour work weeks. After a lifetime of construction work. You’ll get little sympathy from me for two years of it. Might sound dickish, but very true.

Very much so, frankly. And my point was not so much about the 60 hour weeks but the flipping from days to nights which is unhealthy and unsustainable. We are health care professionals making decisions that could cause harm or death. And most of us don’t know how to quit or take care of ourselves until we are completely burned out.

But hey, good luck with all the health care after there are no nurses left.

Feel free to respond. I’m out here.

Number4, clearly you’ve never worked construction.

And you've never worked in health care. Glaringly obvious.

Except I never said health care wasn’t hard. Unlike you three. But healthcare workers don’t have a monopoly on physically and emotionally exhausting work. Why isn’t that glaringly obvious to you.

I can't 'IGNORE" my young cousin who just buried her new husband of 4 months. He wasn't vocally anti-vaccine but his church was -- so he made bad choices. I feel HE would be alive today had he been vaccinated. Young and healthy and his whole life ahead of him. But what the hell, I heard he looked so handsome in his wedding tux -- in the casket. His bride cannot be consoled.

We are nearing the ONE MILLION number of deaths in the USA so how can anyone dare to discount this pandemic?

[This message edited by Jeaniegirl at 11:15 PM, Wednesday, January 5th]

But healthcare workers don’t have a monopoly on physically and emotionally exhausting work.

But peoples' lives are in real danger when healthcare workers are physically and emotionally exhausted... they can make mistakes. Healthcare workers can't sit down and rest when someone is coding, or needing to be put on a ventilator, or... just fed. They are skipping/,missing their meal breaks. People who go into healthcare do so because they want to ease someone's physical or emotional suffering. Sorry, can't say that about construction, as DragonHeart alluded to. It's a level of demand and commitment that can't be compared to anything else. It requires levels of compassion that, sorry, your line of work does not. Ever heard the term compassion fatigue?? It's real and no one is immune from it. But they do it because they love their jobs and have a connection with people.

Lol I can’t believe I’m going down this road, but here I am. But it will be my last post on about this dick measuring contest. Construction accounts for 1 out 5 workplace deaths. Death is a very real problem in the industry. When construction workers are tired, people die. Injuries even more so. I can absolutely assure you nurses don’t even come close to physical fatigue as construction workers. Skipping, missing meal breaks once again isn’t something only healthcare workers do. DH thinks she’d take construction over healthcare, easy to say, hard to do. Tremendous sacrifices are made by construction workers each and everyday, to their bodies, family life and emotional well being. Not unique to them, but sacrifices all the same. With that, I’m done with this ignorant topic.

Just like we don't compare hurts, we've had enough comparing which job has it worse. It ads nothing to the thread and is hurting feelings. Lets move on.

GOSH...there's been a LOT written since I last logged on!! I see there is a LOT of criticism about VAERS. This IS data...and it is UNREAL how adverse reactions are being dismissed like this. I am just happy to know that the adverse reactions in MY family haven't ended in death...unlike the people on this chart. But MY family members will never be the same...thanks to the Covid vaccine...and THAT is a FACT.

Interesting fact, for anyone curious. Over the past week, my entire immediate family, 20 members, have all tested positive for COVID. We just received the final test result today. The same has happened to two other families we know well. So an additional 9 people. There is a 5 year old who obviously isn’t vaxxed, but every other person had 2 or 3 doses, with the exception of one, who won’t disclose their vaccination status. I will say this much, a 100% failure in transmission has caused plenty of skepticism for anymore vaccines.

 I will say this much, a 100% failure in transmission has caused plenty of skepticism for anymore vaccines.

Nothing like being a broken record...

The vaccine does not prevent transmission or illness.

The vaccine DOES REDUCE transmission and severe illness...

No vaccine is 100% anything...

Omicron is KNOWN to be much more transmissible than other variants.

Also have to ask, was everyone exposed to a sick individual at the same gathering? Like Christmas? Large gathering of people, unmasked, close quarters and you wonder why everyone gets infected?

I am sorry everyone got covid and hope they all remain out of hospital.

I see there is a LOT of criticism about VAERS. This IS data...and it is UNREAL how adverse reactions are being dismissed like this. 

Were YOU willing to google what i suggested and at least view that information?

Not criticism. Fact. Vaers is a means to report but does not prove cause and effect.

Oh, DH, in this case, the vaccines were 100% something. Make excuses, all you want for the vaccines, but don’t forget it was only six months ago that the vaccines were being praised as the return to normalcy. The funny thing about you broken records, is you’re always to make excuses for your solutions failures. Unfortunately, never willing to question it.