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What about staffing shortages? Nurses have to be pulled from somewhere to do the infusions.

As I stated earlier, our hospitals are running above 100% capacity.

I truly do sympathize with what is a difficult decision for many to make as far as getting vaccinated. I just don't see how our medical system can sustain the demand the virus is putting on it.

Honestly i hadn't heard much about the use of monoclonal antibodies up here. I just looked it up.

Latest report says that only Sotovimab is currently being used on the unvaxxed and people who are organ recipients and they must have minor symptoms.

It is stressed that "prevention through vaccination is key"

And

Using monoclonal antibodies "doesn't take away the value or necessity of vaccination".

Its also said that using monoclonal antibodies does not prevent long covid.

Supply was not "cut", but the method of distribution did change. And it changed bc widespread use of the drugs due to DELTA created the shortage.

ALL of these drugs are/have been in short supply, and it seems to me the bureaucrats are doing the best they can to distribute to those for whom they will actually work - vs some willy nilly system. We went through similar issues with the vaccine early last year - in my state, the rural areas had THOUSANDS of doses and state/nat'l guard sponsored vax events, but bc of the low pop and vax hesitancy, thousands of doses went bad. Meanwhile, folks in urban areas hunted like crazy to get a jab, many of whom - myself included - had to drive several hours to a rural area to get one. It was as if the simple math of ratios of population to doses was somehow impossible. And, like most things gov't, it ultimately did work itself out (tho the feds did their own weeks' long vax event in at least one urban area).

I guess I just don't have the same antagonism about the lack of "stuff" (covid or not) since 3/2020... I mean TOILET PAPER was impossible to find for months, so I don't really see how to expect things like medicines, which are far more difficult to produce, to be lickety split and readily available.

And I suppose I can see the issues with both the feds taking over these drugs and not. When hospitals and everyone in the world were doing their all to find PPE, the feds took a hands off / free market approach, which made some sense, but also led to horror stories about bidding wars, switched shipments, delays, etc. (I know those in my state had many shipments that were bought/paid for suddenly disappear to some other higher bidder - and that includes my state gov't). The feds switched gears and took over some of the distribution chain, and things calmed down... which has been the status quo for more than a year. The flip side is to have the feds buy all they can and then distribute, which also makes some sense, but then we end up with today's stories of states running out and not being replenished. As I understand it, the current (as of Sept) distribution model is that a state's allocation is based on use and # of new cases. So when the virus jumps the shark and mutates/spreads, there will be delays (and Omicron was a DOUBLE whammy in that the virus is so much more transmissible, evades vax/boosts, AND is impervious to at least TWO of the monoclonal treatments). This model also seems to me to have potential issues depending on any individual state's recordkeeping of # of cases, as well as records of who/how/when the doses were administered (and I for sure don't envy the health care workers who have to track all of that). To me, given the sophistication of manufacture, supply chain issues for everything, and the general disgruntlement of a world's population, all the options are less than ideal, and someone will be unhappy (or downright angry) no matter what distribution/allocation model is chosen.

None of which gets into the possible ethical issues of availability. Say we have two patients. Patient #1 is a lifelong smoker, drinker, lives on soda pop and twinkies, never exercised or took care of their health. We'll call him grasshopper. Patient #2 has spent their entire life focused on living an over-the-top healthy lifestyle: daily exercise, healthy eating, never smoked, drank, or did drugs for the whole 50 years. We'll call him Ant. At age 50, Grasshopper's lifestyle catches up to him, his liver fails and he needs a transplant or he will die. The same day, Ant, also age 50, is hit by a drunk driver and has severe liver damage from the accident. If HE doesn't get a liver transplant, he will die. There's only 1 compatible liver - who gets it? Who decides? Why?

ETA: as to some states not having any supply - if any particular state has used all their supply, then that's a sad thing, but it's not bc the federal govt has cut off supply. If a state got it's allotment and used it, that state has to wait, like EVERYONE ELSE, for its next shipment. Terribly sad... but should State 1, who is using its supply carefully be denied it's allocation bc State #2, who is giving it willy nilly, has run out? ALSO - Anyone can go online and see the # of these drugs being distributed to any US state since Sept 2021 by searching for distribution of monoclonal antibodies.

[This message edited by gmc94 at 11:52 PM, Tuesday, January 4th]

There is resistance for many good reasons. When Drs who are respected and well informed and understand the research and the outcomes are pushing back on boosters and complaining that the government has essentially tied their hands in providing medications that moderate or prevent severeoty of illness we should all pay attention.
All the bad press about Hydroxychloriquine (Hcq) and Ivermectin are great examples. Hcq was poopood from the get go. Because it didn't "prevent" covid. Thats not what Drs wanted to give it for. It is not why bedside nurses were begging for it. It worked to prevent the cytokine storm that makes people die. As does Ivermectin. Both of these meds are being used world wide in many nations that should be WAY sicker than the USA, Canada, and the UK. In India and Mexico it has basically stopped it in its tracks. These are great meds that are cheap and plentiful with low side effect profiles.
Do NOT believe what you are hearing. They are not being honest and in 5-10 years from now you all will be agahst to learn how many decision makers in this shitshow got really really wealthy from it.
And for all of you that say the vaccine is preventing severity of illness that too is not accurate. There are plenty of fully vaxd folks in the ICU and even more in the hospital. I am seeing it daily and have been for months. Talk to the nurses that are doing the work. You may have to scoop your jaw off the ground. There are reasons they are leaving in droves.

The one thing thats guaranteed through all of this is that no government or decision maker will ever be able to make everyone happy.

Its just NOT possible.

Delay in person learning for the time it takes for everyone infected over the holidays to get over infections or return to in person and risk a wave of sick children admitted to hospital because they had yet to be vaccinated.

Either choice will be met with dissatisfaction, rage etc.

Tush

I will always respect your views.

I also believe that the variants are the reason for vaxxed and unvaxxed alike being sick. Makes sense that a virus mutating could render the vaccine less effective.

From the stats i have seen here and what Bigger posted theres still more unvaxxed in ICU than vaxxed.

Vaxxed, unvaxxed. Never have i said its the fault of the unvaxxed that the virus is spreading.

I have said over and over that i do not agree with people bitching about public health mandates trying to prevent overwhelming our hospitals.

Dragn, you're very fortunate if your children did well in a 100% online environment. Three of my four kids are still in school and they weren't that fortunate - even my straight-A students who are in the gifted and talented program/honors classes. And my youngest twin failed his Standards of Learning tests (like many kids in our state) and is still not at grade level. Teachers are overwhelmed trying to help kids get back on track, and that's with parents who are trying to help. Imagine the struggles of the children whose parents aren't able to help. I'm fortunate that I've worked remote for 5+ years but my daughter's BFF has two parents who are considered essential workers. Her parents are divorced, and she's not old enough to stay home alone, so she and her younger sister went to daycare, staffed by college students who didn't care whether or not the kids did their online learning.

I'm firmly against the mandates and believe it should be personal choice. I also disagree with saying you can't eat at a restaurant or go to the movies without being vaccinated - are we going to start requiring that for the flu shot too? Where do you draw the line, especially since the vaccines don't prevent transmission! I'm fully vaccinated, but I still think it's wrong.

Full disclosure, I was vaccinated under duress - I had to choose between the vaccine and keeping my job. You can bet I was more than a little upset when the mandates were blocked in court, especially since I've had numerous health issues since getting the vaccine.

It seems apparent that the vaccines don't prevent you from getting Covid - even though that was touted far and wide, especially from political leaders who just a few months ago said, "you aren't going to get Covid if you get these vaccinations" and "if you're vaccinated, you're not going to be hospitalized". Cue the breakthrough cases and delta and omicron and....obviously those statements didn't age well. I was on a con call today with 6 colleagues - all working remote, vaccinated and boostered - and 4 of them had Covid within the past month.

The availability of monoclonal antibodies largely depends on your area. The closest location in my state is several hours away, but if I drive 20 minutes in the opposite direction and cross state lines, there's a plethora of availability. I agree with Tush - there's more going on behind the scenes than what the general public is aware of. I have 6 immediate family members who are ICU nurses in various states - their in-person accounts would shock many people.

Tush - I so appreciate your experience and input. We truly do need to hear from more frontline workers. Do you have an opinion on the idea that the vaccines are leaky? This is a concern that I have...but I don't have the medical knowledge to fully understand how all that can play out. Appreciate any explanation you can share.

Dragn, you're very fortunate if your children did well in a 100% online environment

Let me clarify something.

Three of my four children have learning challenges and are behind in grade level reading and math. Those three struggle whether its in person or online. But....with online they have ME to help them and that makes a huge difference. Drives me up the wall but benefits them.

In person or online it doesnt matter. They have a genetic condition doctors are now looking at for explanation for their learning challenges.

I'm firmly against the mandates and believe it should be personal choice. I also disagree with saying you can't eat at a restaurant or go to the movies without being vaccinated - are we going to start requiring that for the flu shot too? Where do you draw the line, especially since the vaccines don't prevent transmission! I'm fully vaccinated, but I still think it's wrong.

Personal choice is fine WHEN IT DOESNT AFFECT ANOTHER PERSON. When you live in a society we all have a responsibility to each other. Polio and smallpox were eradicated in most parts of the world through vaccination.

And it is Not vaccine mandates or passports that i have been referring to. Reducing gatherings to 5 people indoors, no indoor dining, closing of gyms, museums, indoor spaces at zoos, 50% capacity limits in retail stores all for the purpose of reducing spread and not overwhelming our hospitals. Thats what i referred to.

It seems apparent that the vaccines don't prevent you from getting Covid - even though that was touted far and wide, especially from political leaders who just a few months ago said, "you aren't going to get Covid if you get these vaccinations" and "if you're vaccinated, you're not going to be hospitalized". Cue the breakthrough cases and delta and omicron and....obviously those statements didn't age well. I was on a con call today with 6 colleagues - all working remote, vaccinated and boostered - and 4 of them had Covid within the past month.

That must be the difference between where we live. Never did the officials here say that the vaccine prevented covid infection or spread.

I have always understood that the vaccine reduces severe illness requiring ICU care, reduces spread.

Never is any medication or therapy 100% effective ever! Thats common sense. I also figured that any variation of the virus could be resistant to the current vaccines. Makes sense.

I was told today that my chikd with respiratory issues may not get full vaccine effectiveness because of the medication she is on. She still got vaccinated because ANY protection is better than none.

Personal choice is fine WHEN IT DOESNT AFFECT ANOTHER PERSON.

It has been stated over and over in this thread that the vaccine doesn’t stop transmission. And despite those saying that has always been the narrative, it’s simply not true. However, folks are claiming it prevents serious illness and hospitalization. Since the vaxxed are welcome to enter any public building and participate in whatever activity they chose, aren’t they the greatest risk to others? Or are we to believe the current narrative that the vaccines do prevent hospitalization, which means the vaccine is personal protection. In which case, stopping an unvaxxed from entering a burger joint or firing them for their work prevented nothing. Because as always, your health is yours and mine is mine.

The Canadian government has very easy to read records of COVID cases, DH. It’s very clear who is at risk and who really isn’t. Nothing has changed from the very beginning. But those who are the least vulnerable have to make the greatest sacrifices.

As too overwhelming the hospitals. I have to wonder, are hospitals more overwhelmed now that 85% of my province’s population is vaccinated? Or when none of the population was vaxxed. I know here the numbers are very clear, causation would be interesting to decipher though. Unfortunately I can’t find that info.

It has been stated over and over in this thread that the vaccine doesn’t stop transmission. And despite those saying that has always been the narrative, it’s simply not true. However, folks are claiming it prevents serious illness and hospitalization. Since the vaxxed are welcome to enter any public building and participate in whatever activity they chose, aren’t they the greatest risk to others? Or are we to believe the current narrative that the vaccines do prevent hospitalization, which means the vaccine is personal protection. In which case, stopping an unvaxxed from entering a burger joint or firing them for their work prevented nothing. Because as always, your health is yours and mine is mine.

The Canadian government has very easy to read records of COVID cases, DH. It’s very clear who is at risk and who really isn’t. Nothing has changed from the very beginning. But those who are the least vulnerable have to make the greatest sacrifices.

As too overwhelming the hospitals. I have to wonder, are hospitals more overwhelmed now that 85% of my province’s population is vaccinated? Or when none of the population was vaxxed. I know here the numbers are very clear, causation would be interesting to decipher though. Unfortunately I can’t find that info.

I have quoted the entire text because trying to separate each point on this tiny ass phone is making my eyes go crossed.

Ill be honest. Vaccine mandates, passports were/are not an issue for me because i am fully vaxxed, thus i am free to do whatever. Doesn't mean i do. I havent dined out since....shortly after dd was born. In-laws watched her while wh took me to dinner for my birthday...like 12 years ago. Its not an issue for me. Nor was it the purpose of my thread.

The vaccine for the original strain was very effective in reducing severe illness and hospitalization. Isnt it logical that a mutation in the virus would affect the vaccines efficiency? Seems logical. It still seems more effective than not being vaxxed at all.

As to transmission, a lesser viral load with vaccination means less chances of spread. Again, logical.

Nothing in life is 100% guaranteed except death. But ill take my chances with "LESS chance of" (secere illness/transmission) than "more chance of" by being vaccinated.

Who is most at risk? That has changed with the changes in the virus. While the aged and immunocomprimsed are stiĺl most at risk the fact that younger and generally healthy people are getting severe illness is terrifying. Delta proved that.

Omicron may be the mutation doctors have been waiting for, a reduction in illness that is equal to the flu. But again there's still no data on long covid with this variant.

Hospital capacity and being overwhelmed. I'm sure the numbers are out there somewhere. Fact is there is a limited number of specialized staff available to work. You can increase the number of ICU beds, ventilators etc but without the staff they are useless. Staff have been going non stop for two years. Burnout and exhaustion have reduced staff just as much as vaccine mandates.

Thr fact remains that vulgarity, threats and plain old rudeness isnt going to solve any of these issues

They are not being honest and in 5-10 years from now you all will be agahst to learn how many decision makers in this shitshow got really really wealthy from it.

Im sorry but this actually made me laugh out loud.

When in the history if mankind has profit not been the top priority of those in power???

Its not surprising. Of course someone is going to or has become very wealthy off of the suffering of others.

Greed is human nature I'm afraid.

Tush let me ask you this:

If you knew then what you know now, would you still have gotten vaccinated?

The point of my post was if your showing symptoms keep your butt home. Be respectful of others, life is not all about you. I know two people who were refused the vaccine due to severe allergic reactions. I am a you do you person as well. Our family choice has been to stay home due to immune issues and do contactless shopping. We speak to people in Oort doors and at a distance. We did get vaccinated our choice.

When I was hospitalized in March due to other issues, the doctors and nurses came in in paper clothing masks shields and gloves. If they are that careful, I believe they have the right to be vaccinated or not.

Do NOT believe what you are hearing. They are not being honest and in 5-10 years from now you all will be agahst to learn how many decision makers in this shitshow got really really wealthy from it.

THANK YOU tushnurse. I want to say that even though the doctors said they were "baffled" at what was happening with my family members having this reaction to the vaccine...the nurses told us differently. They had seen this before with other young...otherwise healthy people having to be admitted because of this life altering issue. This led us to looking online for other cases. But it isn't being talked about in mainstream media...and is being suppressed.

Dr. Robert Malone...who is credited with the mRNA technology that the vaccines use...was talking about these reactions. For doing this...his interview was taken off of some social media sites...and he is being mocked now. Just like it happened with Ivermectin. But this happened in MY family. I am very grateful it isn't widespread...but there ARE reasons why people are NOT getting vaccinated...and it is not just because they are "resistant".

I have FIRST HAND knowledge of the adverse reactions to this vaccine.

I'm interested in hearing about this. What were the reactions? How long did they take to manifest? What were the long term consequences?

It worked to prevent the cytokine storm that makes people die. As does Ivermectin. Both of these meds are being used world wide in many nations that should be WAY sicker than the USA, Canada, and the UK. In India and Mexico it has basically stopped it in its tracks.

I'm all for using any therapy that's been shown to be safe and effective in clinical trials. That being said, India suffered massive losses in the Delta spike last spring and is pushing hard to vaccinate ahead of Omicron. 88% of Mexico's adult population is already fully vaccinated. That doesn't sound like they stopped COVID with hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin.

I'm interested in hearing about this. What were the reactions? How long did they take to manifest? What were the long term consequences?

I would LOVE to talk about this...but I can't because it may jeopardize my anonymity. I am VERY vocal about it on my social media pages...and I don't know who all is reading about it. I CAN say that the reaction didn't happen instantaneously...and so far the consequences are working out through physical therapy. From what I have read...some people can recover completely...but that hasn't been the case so far in my family .

There are MANY countries that HAVE benefited from the use of Hydroxychloroquine and Ivermectin. We shouldn't discount these therapeutic drugs. They have been used now going on 3 years and the data is there to prove their effectiveness.

There are MANY countries that HAVE benefited from the use of Hydroxychloroquine and Ivermectin. We shouldn't discount these therapeutic drugs. They have been used now going on 3 years and the data is there to prove their effectiveness.

Just as long as doctors remind people that its NOT the animal wormer version. I have to worm all my horses come spring and dont want to be searching Hells half acres to find it...again!

I would really like the numbers of people who have had adverse reactions to the vaccines, exactly which of the vaccines vs how many people have received the shots and not had anything.

As with all medications there bound to be a percentage of risk. Its weighing the risk vs benefit. Overall i see the vaccines as providing more benefits than risk given how many have received it.

"Ivermectin for humans is being touted as a potential way to prevent and treat COVID-19 — but the truth is, the data doesn’t support this claim.

“So far, all the studies on ivermectin have shown that it’s not an effective treatment for COVID-19,” says Dr. Martin. “There was one study out of Egypt that showed it may be effective; however, it turned out that the data was falsified, and the study wasn’t formally published.”

This is from an infectious disease specialist on a hospital website from about two months ago.

Who do you believe?

I would really like the numbers of people who have had adverse reactions to the vaccines, exactly which of the vaccines vs how many people have received the shots and not had anything.

You can look on the CDC's website and it will show you. It is alarming...especially when compared to other vaccines. Big tech actually suspended someone from posting these statistics from the CDC onto their social media...but the TRUTH is getting out despite that.

Obviously the vaccine HELPS the vast majority from getting hospitalized...but the risks to having adverse reactions are still MUCH greater. I keep hoping that others can come on here and talk about the adverse reactions as well...then I can talk more freely about what has happened to my family.

As with all medications there bound to be a percentage of risk. Its weighing the risk vs benefit. Overall i see the vaccines as providing more benefits than risk given how many have received it.

There is no question about this Dear Lady . I think there are MANY of us unvaccinated people who feel this same way that you do. I can't speak for anyone else...but for ME...THIS is the issue. The risk is not worth the benefit right now...but it doesn't mean I am being resistant. I truly don't believe I am the ONLY one who feels this way. I have seen from almost ALL of the Covid posts on here how people like me are lumped in with the fringe. Some people have even written this to me privately...it just isn't worth it to try and talk about it when no one is willing to ask and listen. Thank YOU for doing that for me .

Who do you believe?

EXACTLY. For ME...I will believe the data that is not politicized.