SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

What about these these latest issues, which are not indicative of remorse?
1. Anger about you calling OBW
2. WhatsApp still on phone snd most significant app on the screen
3. Copping an attitude on Thanksgiving

1. She stated that she did not want the OMW to feel the same pain that I am feeling. She said she knows how much pain and hurt she has caused, she is ashamed, and didn't want to do that to her. She said she doesn't give a crap about OM. I learned nothing new from the OMW when we spoke for 2 hours.

2. One of her students was traveling overseas and told her about whatsapp. That they could use it to communicate. She said she installed it and has never used the app. It's only been installed since September, and the WW and OM never stopped texting. So not concerned with it.

3. She said her attitude on Saturday (not xgiving) was because I had too much whiskey, was being an ass and it was 2am. All true. But I still did not expect the attitude.

He also said he has been worried sick waiting for me to call her.

Their stories are consistent

It is not uncommon for the WW and the AP, if they feel they're about to be outed, to work out a story in advance so that each of them says the same thing. Sometimes, if the WW and the AP are too consistent, it can be an indicator that this is what has happened. The one thing we know about eyewitness evidence is that it's generally quite inconsistent. That is, two people perceiving the same set of events in real time usually remember them very differently from one another.

It seems like she is currently throwing whatever she can at the wall to see what sticks. It also seems very likely she and the OM made sure their stories matched.

Every person who has been thru this would not believe any of her story or her remorse. Her sorry's and blame are very conveniently placed when and where she needs them.

If she is actually remorseful, she would leave of her own accord because it is what you need. She won't though because she is in this to save only herself.

I've noticed that she'll say things to make it seem as if she is remorseful and willing to do what you need, but when it comes down to it....it's all about looking out for herself. She tried to manipulate you further when she was packing, knowing the whole time she wasn't going anywhere.

She didn't give a crap about the OMW before when she was planning on meeting up with OM so her now saying she didn't want to hurt her is meaningless. I don't believe that, at all. She wanted what she wanted (talking & meeting up with OM) and didn't care about anyone else.

Given what she has done to you and your family, you having a bit too much whiskey is understandable. Instead of realizing that you were drinking and have been put through Hell, she copped an attitude. Once again, worried about herself without a thought to you.

I see zero remorse and her playing on your wishes to R, if possible. That's just my opinion.

Rover I still see you being manipulated by your WW.

Her packing and then trying to manipulate you to ask her not to leave. See this for what is it, she knew all along from her attorney that she did not have to leave. Don't think that he attorney didn't walk her through what a D would look like and in NC, you needed the 1 yr of separate before you can D. You are being manipulated here.

Anger about your calling the OBW is not about OBW. YOu just killed any chance of her fantasy living on, and you still do NOT KNOW FOR A FACT if they have stopped texting. OM may have dumped your WW, but that does not mean she hasn't tried reaching out to him. She cares so much for the OBW, but she was willing to meet up with OM and has been texting him nonstop for months. She is the aggressor, and would have slept with OM if he didn't ghost her. She doesn't give a shit about OBW, b/c if she did she would not have gone after a married man in the first place. These are lies, and you are still falling for them.

Here is the other thing that should really piss you off. When she got mad at you!! Like the fucking nerve of her. For calling the OBW, she was pissed you messed up her fantasy. She doesn't care about you Rover. She was still protecting the OM. This has nothing to do with OBW. She is protecting the OM over her husband. That should be eating at you. My WW did that too, so don't fall for I care about OBS. Your WW cares about herself and the fallout from this, the fact that she then gets mad at you, tells you she is not a target for R right now. You are still Plan B, contrary to everything she is telling you.

Whatsapp never used? LOL, yea, I wouldn't believe that nonsense for one second. That app is made for cheaters and video and images can be wiped for that specific reason. Her not allowing you to go through her phone without her watching your shoulder is all you need to know. Someone that has nothing to hide, hides nothing. YOu still seem to want to believe her, rather than seeing her for who she is.

Her not leaving and calling up her attorney should tell you as well that she is not R material. If she has so much remorse for you, then WTF is she doing? She's in self preservation mode, and self protection mode, not I'll do anything for Rover mode. Stop letting her manipulate you dude.

You are doing well, and we know you can't help but fall back into the believing your WW trap bc you've spent 20 yrs with her. We see through it, and she is still working you.

First time posting on your thread, RoverGuy, and I’m so sorry that you’re here. You’re getting a lot of great perspective on your situation.

I agree that you’re still getting worked by an unremorseful WW. She seems very focused on herself and how this is all affecting her still. That’s a sure sign that she’s regretting and resenting the negative consequences that she’s feeling as a result of discovery.

Case in point, she literally does not give one shit about the AP’s wife. She pursued that woman’s husband. Any pain that his wife feels is a direct consequence of her WH and your WW’s action and has NOTHING to do with you informing OBW of the reality of her marriage. THAT was a favor that you did her that her own H wouldn’t give her.

What she’s likely most upset about is how she looks in this situation. To her AP. To her AP’s wife. She’s been revealed as a cheating, adulterous woman. Not very flattering. And of course, the OBW has no obligation to you WW to not reveal this information to anyone, to not confront her, etc. So yeah, she’s worried about how it affects her.

She’s also upset because she was the fantasy OW, the one that got away, to her AP before. Now, she represents a shameful mistake that is costing him big time. So she is revealed as something very ugly to him. Since so much of an A is about getting ego boosts, this is a serious loss. She went from being the ultimate hot, illicit pleasure to a cheap, ugly secret revealed. My WH actually said that he kept the A going and didn’t break it off because, "I didn’t want anyone to think badly of me." She has lost any claim to a good reputation, a good name. And her AP will avoid her like the plague and never think of her in any way that doesn’t involve shame and anger.

Think about this because she has represented this as YOUR fault for revealing the A to his BW. Does her anger at you (whatever the pretext) seem more understandable and less justified???

I don’t know if you have the real story or not, but it is very clear that she and the AP coordinated their stories and shared information in the immediate aftermath. IF you are at all considering R, you really MUST consider that you can’t forgive and move beyond what you don’t know about. You would move forward with lies still between you, and that is a recipe for a bad marriage. You will never trust, and neither will she—because keep in mind that you can’t ever relax and be vulnerable when you are waiting for multiple other shoes to drop.

I’ll close by reminding you what is everywhere on this site: our WSs have known how to lie and manipulate us probably for the duration of our relationships. We have been a part of precisely that type of unhealthy relationship for. . .well, forever. Many WHs are masters of manipulation, and I do mean masters. They are often not even completely aware or conscious of doing it. To them, it is simply the way that they get things done and accomplish what they want.

It is COMPLETELY unrealistic to think that your WW is aware of her own automatic and very ingrained methods of manipulating you and even more unrealistic to think that she will stop doing that now because of the devastation that she has caused. She is in survival and desperation mode. That is truly when WSs are MOST dangerous to those they’ve betrayed. It would be YEARS of hard, and I mean REALLY hard, work for her to come close to being a safe partner for anyone at this point.

Right now, she doesn’t understand the devastation she’s caused in any way. She’s not even completely accepting that she caused it or that it is really that devastating. If you forget that you can’t trust ANYTHING about her right now, you will be hurt even more than you have already. That is sadly a certainty.

It’s also a certainty that many of us ignored on this site. We were all sure that we had a better read than the experienced folks here. And it cost us so dearly.

It’s what we’re trying to help you avoid by urging you to slow down and not get sucked in. But you have to walk your own path through this. We’re all proof of that.

We’ll be here whatever you decide to do with no I-told-you-so’s and plenty of support. Sending you hopes for strength and clarity.

After you read what NowWhat106 wrote, please read it again. Maybe a few times. What she wrote is almost a certainty.

She's not 100% remorseful. She's not even 1% remorseful. She IS 100% manipulating you.

The OM was also not "immediately remorseful." If he were, he would have told his wife, long before you called her.

She is sorry she was caught. She is regretful. That's nowhere near remorseful.

You really need to stop attributing her bullshit to remorse. It's not helping you.

[This message edited by HellFire at 9:28 PM, Monday, November 28th]

She stated that she did not want the OMW to feel the same pain that I am feeling.

Anybody here believe this?

I think it's more likely she's never given a rat's ass about the other man's wife.

I think it's more likely she's never given a rat's ass about the other man's wife.

I would doubt seriously any WS has ever given a damn about the OBS, and this case is no different, hopefully he's thought that through by now.

Rover guy, I am so sorry that you have had to find us but am glad we can support you.

I just want to say that blaming you is typical cheater behaviour. Its an attempt to justify their terrible behaviour. All I can say is don’t listen to it and definitely don’t believe it.

My XWS listed my faults and compared me to the AP in a dreadful way that shredded my self esteem. Guess what, he is now unhappy with the AP. They are never happy with any one.

8 months later I’m am healing. I can’t recommend therapy enough, it got me through.

Sending you my thoughts. You will get through this. Keep posting so we can support you.

Again I’ll ask…

Has she offered to recover the messages that she deleted? Have you made that a requirement to consider R?

Have you looked through her GPS history? Have you found out what she was doing during the three days she was out of town near OM?

Your wife does not give a shit about OBS; if she did, she wouldn’t have tried to fuck her husband.

Also, why your wife still in contact with OM?

Agree. I see zero remorse. Don’t confuse regret and guilt with remorse. Remorse is when your WW cares only about your pain, is crushed about what she did to you and the M, only cares about how to help you heal, etc. This is not your WW right now.

She’s completely concerned about herself right now, couching things enough to convince you that she’s remorseful.

You know your wife’s personality well enough to know that she’s too prideful and full of herself to be remorseful. However, she’s darn good at putting on a show.

I’ll close by reminding you what is everywhere on this site: our WSs have known how to lie and manipulate us probably for the duration of our relationships. We have been a part of precisely that type of unhealthy relationship for. . .well, forever. Many WHs are masters of manipulation, and I do mean masters. They are often not even completely aware or conscious of doing it. To them, it is simply the way that they get things done and accomplish what they want.

This 1000x Rover.

My STBXW finally met with her parents last week after they had cut her off for the last five months post-DDay. I got word how the meeting went. She turned on the waterworks, cried and cried, said a million "I'm sorries". Her "woe is me" victim mentality came out. None of it was about what she has done to me. It was all simply trying to bail herself out of the fall-out of being shunned by her parents and mostly estranged from our adult children as the result of her actions. I know how to read her like a book now, and I have realized I missed a TON of manipulation over the years; she was so good I never really put all the pieces together. Scary good.

I've gotten no apology (of all people) because there is no potentail benefit to be derived for her from doing so. Again, all about her. I've reached being OK with that because I know what I'm dealing with. I see a lot of my WW in yours. Keep your defenses up, or you are going to get burnt badly.

I wish you good luck moving forard.

Hi All,

First let me say that I am amazed at the number and depth of responses. Thank you all so much for your support.

I feel that I have been posting in snippets and I want to take the opportunity to let you all know where I am right now, which is still at an impasse.

A lot of you have posted about remorse, apologies, polygraphs, etc. I want to address some of those. Before I do, the basic story that she is adamant about is that she got into an inappropriate texting relationship with an old boyfriend and she got lost in the excitement. She has freely admitted it went too far, that she was able to compartmentalize that relationship with the rest of her life. She never thought about what would happen if/when she got caught, and thought it would run it's course. She did admit to wanting to have "a drink" with him in a public place wile she was in his town in October. She swears that is all it would be and she had no intentions of crossing a line to making it physical. She also admitted that OM was the one that said he didn't want to meet because he didn't want to even have the opportunity to cross the line, and she was not happy about it. BTW, that is jilt #3 on my WW form this ass.

So with all that said, here is where I am with some of the topics you all have brought up:

Apology: She has apologized profusely. She has told me how wrong she was, that she never should have let it go so far, that she loves me, has always loved me, and never thought about leaving the marriage for any reason. She has taken 100% of the blame. She has said our marriage was never as bad as she made it out in her head to justify her actions. She has offered to call each of my family members, AND my friends, to offer them her apology as well. She has also apologized to our children many times and taken full responsibility.

Remorse: Not really sure about this one. She talks a lot about how she is crushed due to the pain she has caused me. She has said she would accept any consequences for her actions, including moving out and proceeding with separation. She also talks a lot about how she is a horrible person and she doesn't know what is wrong with her, but is going to counseling to find out. Many times she has stated that she doesn't deserve me, or the she doesn't the deserve me being so nice to her and hearing out.

Polygraph: Stuck on this one as well. She is 100% on board to get a poly. The only thing she said to "balk" was that it is expensive and maybe we should look for a cheaper polygraph and call around. She was ready to make an appt for Thursday afternoon. Here is where I am stuck...after the consultation with the polygraph examiner, I have a better understanding of how they work. They are NOTHING like what you see on TV. The stick to one topic ONLY and cannot determine which questions she is lying about. It is a pass or fail test only. So the examiner can ask all day long if she had sexual relations with OM, but that is all I will know, yes or no. It won't tell me what she INTENDED to do. I have her truth, which is "a drink in a public place with an old boyfriend" and she never would have crossed that line. And I have the opposite THAT IS ONLY IN MY HEAD which is she planned the whole thing, shopped for lingerie, cleaned her hotel room, bought wine and a cheese tray, and was ready to romance the fuck out of this guy. Unfortunately, the poly won't provide me with the truth. IT will only tell me if they had sex, and I am pretty sure they did not, for whatever reason. So spending the money to tell me what I already know seems stupid right now.

So I am freakin stuck. Yes, I love her. No, I don't trust her. I don't think she is a master manipulator, at least most days. If her truth is the truth, I can get past this. She has told me she would do anything to save the marriage - full tracking, free access to all electronics, continue to be open and honest about the affair, apologize to my family and friends, sign a post-nup or reconciliation agreement to waive all rights to alimony if we divorce for ANY reason, go to IC, take a poly, tell me where she is who she is with all the time... She said she will do this for however long it takes to fix this.

So as of today, I told her the truth probably lies somewhere between her truth and my worst nightmare and I put the ownness on her to convince me what it is. She is adamant she has told me everything, there is nothing else to tell. She didn't want anything more than "a drink in a public place". That she would never have crossed that line. Another thing, when we had the consult with the polygraph guy, we were not focused on just this situation. It was about having any sexual relations outside the marriage, and she didn't balk once. She was the one to actually work with the guy to find an appropriate time to meet for the poly. He gave a tome and she asked if he could push it out because she had to work, and he said yes. There would not have been a parking lot confession, she would never have let me go through with scheduling an over $1000 polygraph if she was lying.

So, that's me right now. Still jacked. Tomorrow is one month since D-day, and I don't feel like I have a clue of what to do.

[This message edited by RoverGuy at 4:58 PM, Tuesday, November 29th]

Have you asked what the lingerie, wine, cheese and clean hotel room was intended for then?

Am I misreading this? How can she deny intent when she was one condom short of bingo on the "affair setup" card?

Also, why the extended stay? Why book a hotel for multiple nights to accommodate an intended daytime drink?

[This message edited by Kindern at 4:57 PM, Tuesday, November 29th]

Have you asked what the lingerie, wine, cheese and clean hotel room was intended for then?

Holy shit. My fault. This is what I THINK when I think about. It didn't happen!

Also, why the extended stay? Why book a hotel for multiple nights to accommodate an intended daytime drink?

We had a wedding to go to at this same town (a beach town). We were all going to go early and chill on the beach, but none of us could except for her. She went 3 days early to relax and said she would have done it whether OM lived there or not. The rest of the family met her at the same beach 3 days later and we stayed together through the weekend.

No one ever said it would be easy or clear cut. However, I do ask you to simplify things. Just for a moment.

She said she'd move out if needed. She tried to manipulate you into asking her to stay and when you didn't, she refused to leave.
She said you could look through her phone. She had to be present.
She said she only wanted to have a drink with him. Right, because adults who have been texting inappropriately nonstop for months "ONLY" want to have a drink.

She can't even be honest about her intentions. How does she expect you to trust her?

If she was truly remorseful, she would admit what she really wanted to happen. She would tell you everything because it is what you need. Her comments about how badly she feels, how she's a horrible person, how there's something wrong with her....all a pity party. She's sorry for what she's going through now. She has not yet reached true remorse.

When she has finally grasped true remorse, you will know it. We'll give her the credit when it's warranted. Right now, she gets no credit from many of us.

Ugh. I’m a glutton for punishment but I will ask a 4th time…

You have access to her phone. Have you looked up how to see her google location data for those days. It can go a long way to identifying where she really was those days. Of course if it says she stayed at the hotel only, that doesn’t fix things but if she say, went to a liquor store, or Victoria secret you’d have something to discuss.

And while it’s more difficult to obtain, have you talked to the APs wife about getting the same from his phone (without telling him of course). If it shows he’s at the hotel at any time that weekend you have a whole new thing to discuss.

As always I’m sorry for your pain. And yes I do believe couples can build new relationships out of infidelity but it takes dedication and time, a lot of time. But I do believe there is hope.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 5:17 PM, Tuesday, November 29th]