SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

beauchateauxI see it too. Since the first post about his pride/ego and "how dare she" as opposed to she hurt my love for her.

I would say him pointing out "fat slob" has more to do with him building up his own ego by putting her AP down. Which is why he had a RA. The whole "how dare" she do this to me hit to his pride. As I pointed out, rugsweeping isn't going to fix those problems you brought to your marriage. For a person already having self confidence problems being cheated on just made it worse.

Maybe it is a culture thing. I was shocked at half the shit my wife was telling me about Japanese culture after she watched some episodes of some make-over show and normal house wives were deemed "stopped being a woman" or some shit.

BSR and DF, to answer that questions of course it is . But the WS should stop leeching of an form of benefits and support from the BS. Also have any form of relationship with the BS then. Additionally, Its pretty obvious to understand that this is referring to the cake eating WS who still want the “marriage” because there have been WS who leave their spouse for APs which is the scenario that y'all are referring to. Also pretty hilarious that what i get from yalls statement is that you cheated but dont want to be cheated on.

Also king rat, i would say that emotionally and physicall exclusiveness is a pretty big vow/ commitment in a marriage than other ones that you are thinking of. And before you reply yes there such thing as small vows and big vows based on the impact it has on marriage. In most general population breaking a big vow can effect the marriage and small vows can be repaired. Its a pretty obvious

Lastly although i have said this before if i did not have an AP then I doubt there would be an attempt at R.

I see people say this and I never understood it. Who said you should R? When did R become such an important goal that the end justifies any means to get there? What if you said you needed to abuse your wife in order to R? Obviously that’s extreme, but I just don’t understand the idea that the pursuit of R makes everything done in order to R okay. Sometimes D is just the right answer.

Couple things- We continue to rehash the same point and perhaps we just let it rest. There is some division of opinion regarding “contract” vs “covenant.” If one feels that a marriage is nullified the second infidelity occurs so be it.

But at that point the notion of WS requirements to R are also out the window. Not everyone here is pro-R, but rare is the cheater who’s against it on SI, for obvious reasons. So while some can be shocked that cheaters are here saying you might not want to make yourself feel as shitty as we do by “leveling the field,” remember who the WSs are on this site. Bottom line, if it ends the M in your mind, then why continue to discuss here?

Let’s also consider this- Buzzy, you continue to revel in exerting power over your WW’s AP. He “just sat there and took it” when you physically threatened him and he’s a “fat slob.” You also reveled in exerting power over WW, having her beg you not to leave and telling her who you were going to Spain with. This is what I believe many are recognizing as “wayward tendencies” in your narrative. It’s worth examining in terms of how you come back to process your WW’s betrayal- You and she will both need to acknowledge self-control as you move forward.

Good morning.

Small point my w did not beg me to stay but she was scared and in a panic that I wanted her to leave.

Friday evening.

Kids in bed and I asked to have a conversation and taking advice her into account I asked her if she needed any more information like what we did in bed thankfully she said no "I already have a good idea of what you would want and i am sure Claire gave it to you, I don't need the gory details.

Next I told her I had pictures from the trip which I will now delete, she asked to see them (there was nothing sexual) she only made one comment about Claire and I sitting outside a cafe in our running kit which was "you two look happy". I asked if i should delete the photos and she said that's your choice so I deleted them.

Strange thing now we are trying to R (and with some success) my guilt seems to be increasing.

Are we rugsweeping? who knows but we can only talk about the same thing so many times.

I have more to say but Julie left some while ago to pick up the kids from their sleepover and could be back at any moment.

My BW did not care for the gory details either. She was more concerned about the things I discussed with my AP and the emotional stuff. That and confirming that AP was never at our house.

R for us consisted of me working through my problems and my whys and also more importantly we worked on fixing our marriage.

I realized I really used a lot of people during my affair. I lied to my wife constantly, and i lied to my AP. I was in it for myself. I also realized what a piece of shit my AP really was (another story for another day).

You'll need to work on why you had an affair (RA is still an affair). And the way you used your affair partner for your own ends, but more how you misabused your spouse. She'll need to do the same on her end as well. Otherwise, I think you two are going to have problems later.

Buzzy - Please tell me that you told your wife that you did not wear a condom during anal sex with a women of questionable morals and that you both have been tested for STDs. This woman easily blew off a friendship with another woman and had sex with her husband without much of a moral dilemma. For this woman to allow anal sex without a condom says A LOT about her character. Sounds like it was business as usual for her...........Hope I am wrong and that you and your wife are safe.

In reading through the posts on this thread, it seems that your continued fantasizing about the sexual encounter is a danger to your marriage and to your wife. It seems like, not only have you been keeping the door open for Claire, you are also enjoying the idea of the attention and flirting of other women and that it is a turn on. This reeks of Wayward thinking. I cannot encourage you enough to get counseling before you progress into another sexual encounter outside of your marriage.

It truly seems like you are BOTH rugsweeping. Every careful.

We have both been tested, all seems ok.

Fair point, Mondas, but I think the revenge-affair BS wants to keep the status quo too, in having their own affair as a precursor to R—otherwise they would just divorce.

I asked her if she needed any more information like what we did in bed thankfully she said no "I already have a good idea of what you would want and i am sure Claire gave it to you, I don't need the gory details."

That seems like the best possible outcome. I would never begrudge any BS the right to know everything, but if she truly prefers to keep it vague, I would respect that decision with considerable relief.

Are we rugsweeping?

Not with this specifically, though you should be prepared for her to change her mind and ask for details later. If she does, then give them to her. My BH changed his mind, and I used his original directive to justify lying to him, which was hugely damaging in the long run.

Strange thing now we are trying to R (and with some success) my guilt seems to be increasing.

Why is that strange to you? Your love is coming back to a level that supersedes your anger and desire for revenge. You deliberately hurt her, and now you're facing that. Guilt is natural under those circumstances.

[This message edited by BraveSirRobin at 10:43 AM, November 17th (Sunday)]

Hey buzzy-

First, I can appreciate a culture difference but gently, you’ll get further always in every avenue of your life if you chose the compassionate alternative. Sometimes when you speak, it comes off curt even if you don’t intend it that way. Now that some have said so, i see that you are trying to understand the error of your ways and not engaging in those that try to ignite your defenses. You are awake. You are willing to be malleable. You are considering your wives point of view. These are all so obvious that I think it’s safe to say you aren’t rugsweeping. If you discontinue your awake state and don’t further stay alert, malleable and considerate, you would/will rugsweep.

It’s important to remember also that you have been in relative limbo for close to a year I think right? Either way.... you recent revelations may be what have taken you out of limbo/recovery that now you are willing to reconcile. So... maybe is this really your personal climax in your journey where your view from above is enabling you to clearly see all paths.

You’re doing some really great work buzzy. I’m proud of you. And your W. Keep it up.

My thanks to everyone for your parts in getting my stupid head together.

I wanted to post this yesterday but my family were around all day and although I dont want secrets from my wife this is my space.

Anyway Saturday turned into one of the most wonderful days in my life and I have my wife to thank for this and believe me I cannot thank her enough, if I had ever doubted her love I no longer can and as far as we are concerned the past is where it belongs in the past.

So Friday evening my wife informs me she is going shopping all day< I am told to take the bags of her old clothes to the charity shop and to take the kids to our friends house for there sleepover. Next i am informed i am to be at XXX restaurant at 6pm as she has booked a table and we will be staying at xxx hotel on Saturday night. all ok with me.

So I walk into the Restaurant and my wife is already at the table glass of wine in hand and the she looks very different for a start she has a sleeper through her nose and much more make up than usual, big grin on her "part do you like it" yes I do I have always liked the "punk" look, then she lifts her hair up and she has had a second piercing in each ear lobe and studs fitted at the top oh her ears. TBH I am gobsmaked as my W has always looked good but rather conservative in her dress and make up, I told her she looked great, it seems she had the make up done in a shop. She was also wearing a new top that showed rather more cleavage than normal.

We order chat for a while discuss what she had been doing then she gets up to go to the bathroom and my eyes must have bulged she is wearing what I have always thought of as a waitress skirt, short, black and clingy, her, "you like" fuck me do I, she looks ten years younger and so very very good.

Julie comes back to the table," ok Julie whats this all about" answer, I am going to be who i want to be, I am no longer going to just be Buzzys wife and the kids mum, I am going to be your partner and i am going to be me as well.

So we finish the meal and she insists on paying for it and informs me we will go to the hotel and then on to a pub that plays excellent music, all ok with me. We get to the cloakroom and she must have bought half of the west ends stock. so many bags including on from Anne Summers which I noted, her, "trust you to spot that one" (big grin on her face)

Off to the pub, we get there and she tells me "this is your night, I will be getting and paying for the drinks" no argument from me.

Later in the evening I watched her walking back from the bar and I am thinking, she looks amazing, how could you have treated her like shit what a fucking idiot i am. It was a great evening, we left the pub at about 12-30 and returned to the hotel.

We had a last drink in the hotel bar and i said how happy I was, she said so am I she also said tonight is the start of our new relationship, you always wanted a "whore in the bedroom" well thats me but only for you, screw all my inhibitions.

As I said it was a wonderful night with my amazing wife who I love so much.

Next morning she tells me she is having a tattoo on the back of her shoulder and if she likes it she will have another one on her upper arm, I am joining her, mine will be a man and women running under moonlight .

I think my journey on here is mostly done and again I thank you all from the bottom of my heart, so much has changed in just 14 days,. no more anger just regrets but they will fade i hope, Julie has found us a new gym and is researching running clubs. We have our first race together at the end of December.

Buzzy,

The hysterical bonding was the best part of the early stages of R. My wife and I had some of our best sex in the months and first 2 years after D-Day.

The best is that we started actually talking to each other. About everything. Sex included.

You and your wife are lucky to have each other. Now just don't ignore how and why you got where you were.

Hopefully you are the ones that R comes quick and easy.

BTW we got arm tattoos first (song lyrics that spoke to each other) and later similar type tattoos on our backs that spoke to our connection and family.

By chance did Claire have tattoos and piercings? This could be a part of the "pick me dance."

I dont know if it was HB but we had some laughs, at one point she said "if your dick decides to go on another trip to Spain with someone else i will rip yout balls off"

KR No she didnt other than a small tatoo on her foot.

As much as i like the piercings i was quite suprised the nostril one in particular.

There is no pick me dance we both have learned our lessons.

The pick me dance is not a conscious thing. It is a subconscious bonding attempt in the same way HB is. It can often pave the way for rugsweeping. Learning a lesson is different than understanding behaviors and implementing change necessary to be better individuals and partners. All I am saying is understand that once Julie feels like the immediate threat of losing the relationship has passed, do not be surprised if turns all her attention to the affairs and the fallout.

I agree that it sounds like Julie is doing the pick-me dance.

I do hope everything works out for the best for everyone involved.

I am an old-timer (BS) and am almost never around SI anymore, but recently recommended to a friend, so have been looking through the forums - which is TL:DR way of saying, if what I have to say isn't useful to you, feel free to disregard it.

In reading this, I keep being struck by the fact that almost every interaction or conversation you describe sounds like teenaged fan fiction. If you are genuinely a mad-hatter couple with two children that you care about, and not a 15 year old having some fun on here, I would very strongly suggest that you seek some serious counselling, both individually and together, to get at the root of your issues.

I'm finding the lack of introspection, the immaturity, the sudden reversals, the group dynamics that sound like middle school, the emphasis on appearance, etc. staggering. It's like neither of you has learned anything below the surface from any of this.

If you want to have a real marriage and raise your children in a functional, intact family, please find a way to go deeper.

[This message edited by brooke4 at 1:06 PM, November 18th (Monday)]