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I must admit I'm confused about some of the advice on this thread.

Firstly, I'm fully behind telling your wife about the sexual acts and if the sex was was unprotected. It's the best ever part I'm confused about.

I've read numerous threads where the sexes have been reversed with the WS female saying her AP a far better lover than her BH and the threads have literally erupted with replies from BS and WS saying you can't tell him this, don't tell him this, it will destroy him, he'll never recover, your marriage will never recover etc. You can argue if you want but the threads are there to read if you look.

Now suddenly it's a woman and is ok to destroy her? Is it the fact she's a WW that makes it acceptable?

OP, you can tell her about the sex without making comparisons, just be respectful.

Thank you Carissima, i intend to follow your advice, yes i will tell my wife it was unprotected, yes i will admit to the "acts" but as you rightly state no comparisions.

The kids are having a sleepover at a friends house on Saturday so i think i will broach the subject then.

You guys have been such a help.

It's a debated point on SI for sure. I've seen the threads Carissima refers to, and yes, it's usually BHs who say there's no coming back from some admissions. Penis size is often cited -- "how can your WW tell you that, she can't care about you at all if she says that, etc." So this does seem to be a topic where members take what they need and leave the rest. I'm not trying to win the point, but I do want to clarify that for me, it's not anything to do with gender or hitting back because she's a WS.

When a BS discovers they've been TT'd, they have a basis for questioning everything that has come out of the WS's mouth so far. The process of TT is defined by "Here's the truth," and then "Well, ok, that was a lie but the rest is the truth," and then, "Fine, I didn't want to hurt you by admitting that, but I swear to God that now you know the whole truth." What is the likelihood that after Round 3, they'll believe what they've been told -- even if most or all of it really is accurate by that point?

In my own situation, part of the reason my BH suffered so long was that he knows me and knows when something I'm saying doesn't add up. He said that he could have left some of the really painful "comparison" details alone if I had just been honest at the outset about facts and general emotions. Once he knew he couldn't trust me, he needed every gutting detail. My reluctant honesty about that is what helps him believe me about the positive answers. A person who will admit (remorsefully) that the AP was well endowed or talented gets some credibility about other tough questions like "I never discussed leaving you for her."

I was thinking about saying, "Well, if you're going to lie to her about this, be sure at least to tell her the truth about everything else." But it's a logical fallacy. If you're lying about how good it was, you'll also probably lie if she asks you if you regret sex with Claire the way she regrets her A. If you're honest about that, your first answer makes no sense. Suddenly there are all kinds of things you "can't" tell her. And that's just a recipe for false R.

[This message edited by BraveSirRobin at 8:14 AM, November 14th (Thursday)]

Carissima, I notice some of your posts have been very hostile. Is there something going on in your life?

I agree. I wouldn’t tell anymore. But I’m definitely a wayward. Also my H did not want to know ANYTHING. He is a rug sweeper. Either way, you’ve got to navigate this for yourself. Do what feels right. And I think you can see wrong from right now.

I think it’s harmful and ridiculous to tell a current partner that anyone else was The Best Ever, sexually. Male or female. AP or just former lover.

Unless you really do just want to hurt the person, that is. If you do, then I suppose tell away.

There is a difference between dishonesty (simply for the sake of being a liar) and discretion.

Have you and your wife been tested for STDs since your A? When you disclose the details you withheld, make sure you note that both of you will need to make appointments to get tested.

I agree that it's not something to volunteer, and arguably I'm commenting from the cheap seats, because my "best ever" really is my H. But I guess I see a difference between throwing that information at a BS for no reason and reluctantly admitting it when they insist that they want the full truth. Wayward thinking is the land of the "acceptable" lie, especially lies that control the BS to avoid the outcome of D. If the litmus test is "that will just hurt her," how many other kinds of lie fall under that umbrella?

It's also true that we see BS here occasionally who regret asking those kinds of questions because they were not prepared to handle the answers. I'm not trying to gloss that over. I think the approach of "I will tell you anything you want to know, but please think first about whether this line of questioning will help or hurt your healing" preserves the BS's agency while warning them that there are rough seas ahead.

I agree with that point, BSR, and I’m not advocating lying. I can also see how “if THIS lie is ‘ok’ then maybe THAT one is too” can become something a WS starts wondering. I certainly don’t know the one-size-fits-all answer.

Carissima, I notice some of your posts have been very hostile. Is there something going on in your life?

T/J

I am in a lot of physical pain just now and try not to post when it's too bad, however one thing that has always frustrated about SI is that there a gender bias when it comes to certain topics, most noticeably those of a sexual nature. I'm a BW and I don't know if it's only my perception but somehow women always come off as being slightly less than.

As for hostile, if your talking about my recent post in JFO then I think it was justified. A member suggesting that a wife pretend she was sleeping to get her husband to rape/sexually assault her, that it was done with the purpose to lead him on. Sorry, I'm getting angry again just thinking about it.

Apart from that I can't think of anything that's been 'hostile', maybe to the point.

Sorry OP and end T/J

Carissima,

I am sorry you are in physical pain. That's awful. I didn't think your post here was hostile. I think it's valid. I think my advice for him to be honest was more geared with - answer the questions and be factual. Meaning if she wants the acts to be disclosed then they should be. But, often a BS will ask if it was better and honestly I think the answer goes to state of mind rather than factual, and that is information his wife should know - his state of mind.

I think if Buzzy was remorseful, he wouldn't see the sex as the best ever. He is still very much seeing the affair as a positive event. Not just in saying it was the best ever but some of the other things he says that are positive about the AP. In this light, I am not sure that as his wife I would see him as someone who is ready for R, and I think she does have a right to know that's the case. In the reverse situation, if it were her saying these things about her AP, everyone would be down his throat to divorce her. So, I would agree there is a double standard. But, as a wayward I can not advocate lying or minimizing the situation. I would be more inclined to think like BSR that a comparison is not needed unless asked. Sometimes they ask, though. He says himself that now that the door is closed he feels like he is missing something from his AP. All of this is information as to mindset and I do think if one is to make a decision on how to move forward then it would be best if everyone was reading from the same book.

I think most of the debates I have seen on this matter are on a BS board. And, I can see how they may have differing opinions because this whole thing is so painful to them. But, a WS really has to go black and white on honesty or it's going to be a slippery slope. I also think because she is the WS, there should be some further insight about affairs that will insulate her more than a blind-sided BS. For example, I am familiar with the pining and how involuntary it feels. A BS who has not experienced that, might give advice for a WS to snap out of it. And, believe me if I could have snapped out of it day 1 I really would have. So, taking that into consideration, if my H had his own affair, I would almost be expecting that to be part of what we are up against in R. I just wanted to explain that, because I don't feel anyone should be making this worse by saying a lot of stuff you may not mean later, but it all comes down to as a BS you really do need to know the mindset that your WS is in so that you can make your own decisions accordingly. I would still vote he be honest about the acts he had, if she asks if he enjoyed them he should answer yes. If she asks if it was his best ever, I can't advocate lying but I can see not volunteering that information.

I am like BSR I am in the cheap seats though, my H is truly my best ever, and I would have said that the minute the Affair sex was over despite all my other fogginess.

I hope you feel better soon, Carissima.

[This message edited by hikingout at 12:43 PM, November 14th (Thursday)]

hikingout

I think what got to me here was that there seemed to be little or no consideration as to how the OP should have the conversation. As I said I don't know if it's because of the MH situation but I just think yes be honest but don't be callous.

If someone's being callous about something like this then it's a surefire sign they're still wayward in their thinking. Adult should hopefully know appropriate, considerate ways of sharing information that's always, always going to hurt.

My one tip - don't draw it out, nothing worse than waffling on about nothing.

I think you can do what most healthy people do. Admit what you did with Claire if your wife wants to know. Let her make that decision. Tell her you really didn't want the details, does she want them?

Then mention how you want to experiment with some interesting things sexually and see if your wife and you line up that way. If not, then ask why, but as was said above, don't compare them. Ask your wife to adjust in ways to feel similar or get the parts you liked. You don't have to say where they came from, simply that you would like a little more that direction or this position might be fun. Encourage your wife to do the same.

I still am curious about the RA. Why is everyone so locked down on saying it was horrible. It sounds like he doesn't have mind movies or comparison issues like all other BH.

Buzzy - am I reading that wrong?

Do you have mind movies or triggers?

We should dissect why he doesn't have them and why he feels the way he does. Is it the guilt he carries as well? It might help with the people trying to get rid of mind movies by getting some guilt. Maybe there is a way to get some of what Buzzy got without cheating? Secretly doing something your spouse does not approve of? Taking back control but covertly so you have your own secret and feel less tricked?

[This message edited by DoinBettr at 4:26 PM, November 14th (Thursday)]

Carissima - Yes, I definitely didn't go into how to go into the conversation. BSR did qualify her advice a little better. I think that I was probably too apathetic by that point and probably should have stopped responding to him. I was to the point of tired of explaining to some of the people (between this and the other thread) why Buzzy was wayward. I was completely floored by that whole discussion. And, at times I have openly disbelieved some of his story (Sorry Buzzy if that was unfairly so, I will never really know)

And, I guess in the end I feel too much like "the best sex ever" should never be a contest. It's so subjective, and something you can change your mind on. Having talked to so many foggy WS over the time I have been here and seen how those lights come on one by one - what they value changes. They see they were valuing the wrong thing. If buzzy goes back to valuing his wife, and truly feeling remorse for his actions the lens of what he finds to be exciting or truly outstanding will in fact change. In the end, I think I might want to know what I am up against - and I don't mean me against the AP - but the spouses mindset and how much will have to change to move forward in the marriage.

I can appreciate what you are saying though, 100%.

[This message edited by hikingout at 1:41 PM, November 14th (Thursday)]

Hi Hiking, i can understand why you may have doubted my story i have read a few on SI that i was sceptical about.

Do i have mind movies or triggers, no i dont because my RA overwrote them, i confronted the guy she fucked and i was gobsmacked that she would involve herself with a flabby dadbod like him.

Do i value my wife and M yes, yes i do, more every day but do i regret my RA? well i regret my actions after my RA but i am certain i would have had big problems trying to R without it.

I had a shock tonight, I was watching the football with my Son, i knew my W was in the bedroom and at half time i went to ask if she wanted a glass of wine, the bed was covered in clothes and bin liners, for a moment i thought she was packing to leave and my stomach hit the floor, i asked "whats going on" reply, "these are for the charity shop, new me new clothes", cue feelings of relief.

[This message edited by Buzzy at 4:29 PM, November 14th (Thursday)]

Worse, they could have been your clothes.

i was gobsmacked that she would involve herself with a flabby dadbod like him.

To some people, I suppose, looks aren’t everything. Heaven forbid you someday gain weight or get older, right?

ES, very true.

DF, we all get old but i will (illness etc aside) never be a fat slob.

You know, it's pretty offensive when those words, "fat" and "slob" are automatically joined together. There are fat people who are neat, and thin people who are slobs.

I know that fat shaming is so deeply ingrained in our culture that people use that kind of language without even thinking about it so I want you to know that for people who are in fact fat, like me, it is hurtful.

That is all.

Buzzy,

I don’t struggle with weight and never have. However, I don’t shame other people for it or consider them less than. It does not matter in terms of who a person truly is. JMHO.