SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Before we go on and rationalize that Mrs. Space Ghost was solely and personally responsible for the hike in oil prices back in the 70’s then I think we should calm down.

Let’s simply focus on reality and preferably known facts and statements.

If infidelity is a no-exception deal breaker and irrevocably leads to divorce then SG has all he needs right now. He doesn’t need more evidence – he has proof of the affair and is totally 100% convinced it took place. Seeking further proof has no validity after filing, and suggestions like using a VAR can ultimately weaken his position in divorce. [In many cases any evidence gained that way is illegal and inadmissible in court, and there are precedents where such usage has been seen as an intrusion into the person’s private life and as harassment. Just imagine if he inadvertently taped a phone conversation between Mrs. SG and her divorce attorney – that could be a criminal offense].

He doesn’t need to know why because it won’t change his destination. He’s determined to divorce. Heck… his wife would be a class A fool to send him any confirmation of the affair IF she realizes divorce is inevitable. BTW – has ANYONE here on SI EVER gotten a good, understandable “why” from their spouse within the first year after D-day? The “why” is something that might come after long and serious work, but expecting Mrs. SG to give a plausible explanation now… I think one of the key milestones in reconciliation and recovery is when one realizes and accepts that you might never get a good, rational explanation for the “why”.

SG – the simple fact is your wife cheated and you plan on terminating your relationship with her. Once divorced you two won’t be friends, wont share holidays together, won’t sit and chat… Her “reason” for cheating won’t be relevant. What you need to realize is that she cheated despite you – not because of you.

I can’t for the life of me see that there was more than one affair. But that really doesn’t matter. It’s not like he will divorce her twice. It definitely would matter if SG wanted to reconcile, but since that’s not on the table (and some prefer we don’t mention that option) then the number of affairs is totally irrelevant and speculation on that issue serves no purpose.

Nor do I see Mrs. SG as the scheming penultimate evil sociopathic wayward wife. To me she sounds exactly like all the other wayward spouses out there. Neither better nor worse. It’s a commonly accepted statement here on SI that the affair is never because of the BS: She didn’t cheat because there was something lacking in SG. She cheated because there was something lacking in HER. That’s also why the AP seldom has any long-term relevance – the WS is fulfilling some inner need and the AP is simply a tool. So I can fully get that she’s worried about her marriage and even that she loves SG. Her willingness and wanting to save the marriage can be totally 100% honest but that does NOT mean SG has any obligation to R if he isn’t so inclined.

Ethically SG should tell the OMW. I also happen to think that all stakeholders in a marriage (kids, parents, close family) deserve to know in an age-appropriate and kind way the true reasons for the divorce. I think it’s then the participant’s job to rebuild bridges and relationships as appropriate.

I really have no sympathy for infidelity. My track record here on SI will confirm that. And I have been one of the firmest voices here saying that there are only two ways out of infidelity; divorce or committed reconciliation. SG is totally correct in committing to the option he prefers and he is under no obligation to reconcile, want to reconcile or need to reconcile. But he wouldn’t be the first betrayed husband that pre-affair was clear on infidelity being a deal-breaker and then realizing he wants to reconcile. In fact I think some of the statements he has made contradict his direct statement about wanting a divorce. That is totally normal – I was pretty determined to terminate my infidelity affected relationship and I stuck to it, but I had periods of doubt. No matter what I or anyone else thinks the call is totally 100% SG to make.

I think that for us to slag off his wife and/or suggesting he takes counterproductive measures isn’t going to help at all. SG has all he needs to divorce. If that’s what he wants the fine – go ahead and make the divorce as fair and amicable as you possibly can. But just like there can’t be a true marriage when infidelity is ongoing then there can’t be a true marriage when papers have been filed. I think our role here on SI should be to offer SG direction, alternatives and options as he goes along.

SG - I agree with bigger. Based on the reactions you've posted about her, I find it hard to believe she's done this more than once. It appears to me that she might be a good candidate to reconcile. She certainly appears to want it. But it's your choice. Infidelity is definitely a dealbreaker for some. You don't need any more reasons or justifications for divorce. just realize the rest of what Bigger wrote is true as well. She won't be your wife anymore.

If infidelity is a no-exception deal breaker and irrevocably leads to divorce then SG has all he needs right now. He doesn’t need more evidence

I agree he has all he needs to divorce. Suggestions about using methods to get further evidence are out of topic, since he didn't express a need to dig more.

He would like to know a reason why, like any victim of infidelity, but no amount of research would give him that.

I can’t for the life of me see that there was more than one affair. But that really doesn’t matter

Well, from what he told us, he had no clue or suspicion, he stumbled upon it by chance. So it is actually quite obvious to wonder if this was really the first time, maybe the previous times he didn't notice the lingerie and the other APs didn't ask her to shave down there. It's a legitimate suspicion IMO.

Does it matter? Maybe it does to him, just to have a clearer idea about the real history of his marriage, but again, he gives no indication that he cares, so to keep bringing this up is useless at this moment.

that’s not on the table (and some prefer we don’t mention that option)

That option has been mentioned more than once, SG didn't express any interest in it at the moment. So to keep bringing it up at length like it should be his first concern or option is as useless and nonsensical as keeping on bringing up further investigations (see above)

Nor do I see Mrs. SG as the scheming penultimate evil sociopathic wayward wife. To me she sounds exactly like all the other wayward spouses out there. Neither better nor worse.

I agree with this. Not worse and NOT BETTER. So why people keep saying she's such a good candidate for reconciliation? That she's so sorry so it SHOULD be an option?

It will be an option IF and WHEN SG expresses an interest in considering it. There's no special merit here. Not at all.

Her willingness and wanting to save the marriage can be totally 100% honest

Or not. It's up to SG to evaluate this, if he so wishes.

Only fact we know for sure is that she is sorry she got caught. There is no real indication that she's also remorseful, for now.

Ethically SG should tell the OMW. I also happen to think that all stakeholders in a marriage (kids, parents, close family) deserve to know in an age-appropriate and kind way the true reasons for the divorce. I think it’s then the participant’s job to rebuild bridges and relationships as appropriate.

I wholeheartedly agree with this.

I think our role here on SI should be to offer SG direction, alternatives and options as he goes along.

I agree, provided that our advice respects the general direction he states he wants to go.

[This message edited by italianjob at 7:48 AM, February 9th (Monday)]

If we accept that your wife is remorseful and horrified at the prospect of losing you and your marriage, then I advise you to check up on her from time to time through your vacation. You can do this via a common friend or a direct phone call. You don't want her doing anything drastically silly while you are away.

while I know Jcanada and Tom are joking, it would never be good for him to turn into the OM. Those girls at the bar were sluts and their husbands would be on here within a month hurting because their wives cheated on them in Florida

exceptional thoughts by Longadstory. She may show up at the hotel. She may be planning his downfall while he's decompressing. She's stressing right now and WW's can be very abusive.

SG should be golfing, yes but he shouldn't be dropping his guard either.

while I agree with much of what Bigger says, I don't see where anyone suggested that SG's wife is an evil sociopath. I also don't think it is accurate to assume that this is the first affair. Even SG doesn't know. It could very well be or not .....

Finally, I don't think anyone was suggesting using a VAR to help bolster his case in divorce. He is seeking answers of an ultimate betrayal that he may never get. The VAR is for his informational purposes only. The risks of use would be on him though he's already used them successfully once before.

SG, you had asked in your first post:

"Has she been cheating with multiple men for years?"

You made me realize that if she hadn't, she definitely would have if given the opportunity. I see the answer in this very same post when you also wrote:

"She acts the same with me like she always has and she tells me all of the time that she loves me. The other day she told me I was the best thing to ever happen to her."

This has me asking questions such as:

Is there really a difference between a WW that regrets being caught and one that is remorseful? Ever?

For those of you that have "recovered", do you ever reach a point other than "worn out" acceptance?

Truth is that when honesty would have made a difference it was always lacking. Always protecting themselves at the cost of the relationship.

You don't get to claim past issues as an excuse, especially when you clearly know how great you have it with your spouse.

I just find that her ability to act so loving while being so deceitful, to the degree that even a smart guy like SG could not detect anything, makes me wonder about my wife.

Anyone else wondering if this Jekyll and Hyde attitude is the norm or the exception among WW's, especially their own recovering ones?

I think it's the norm, for reasons that would fill a book.

How long does she have to respond after the file?

very good points Chapmtl. Especially three paragraphs from the bottom. You see how she is and reacts and then one starts to wonder if their W is capable as well. It's scary

very good points Chapmtl. Especially three paragraphs from the bottom. You see how she is and reacts and then one starts to wonder if their W is capable as well. It's scary.

Your W is indeed capable. We are all capable . We are the crooked timber of humanity. I think that that is a safer place from which to ponder people's actions.

SG, you had asked in your first post

"Has she been cheating with multiple men for years?"

Every one of us have asked that same question. Once we are deceived, and once our worlds are not what we thought they were, everything is then questioned.

"She acts the same with me like she always has and she tells me all of the time that she loves me. The other day she told me I was the best thing to ever happen to her."

That is called compartmentalization and some people are good at it and others cannot even imagine doing that. Sometimes, compartmentalization is learned at an early age due to some childhood abuse and for others it comes natural, like for politicians for example.

It is certainly normal for SG to want his questions answered, who wouldn't want to know why out of the blue their world was turned upside down.

Thank you Bigger for your rational message.

There were a few instances of projection and popcorn eating going on

.

SG, when you return refreshed and refocused from your golfing and are back on this site feel free to pop in with just us men in "betrayed men" thread under the "I can relate" forum. Here is a link to our most recent thread to point you on the right direction:

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=549906&AP=681

Many of us men can relate to this emotional roller coaster you are going through, especially us guys who know that just one affair is a deal breaker. I also had such a conversation with XW way back while we're dating that to me any infidelity was my deal breaker. I made that very clear to her. As for her reasons "why" she had one anyway, she never really gave me the truth but through her actions and knowing of her abuse in childhood I pretty much have a good idea of her "why".

As for going forward with D, I commend you for taking swift action to pick a direction. Hell, I envy your fortitude to get yourself out of infidelity so quickly. Whether one picks R or D, what is important is to choose a direction and begin to move forward. Choices, opportunities, and solutions only present themselves clearly when you set things in motion.

I guessing there is some time before your D becomes final. It couldn't hurt to see if your WW can convince you to give her another chance. At the very least you have her attention and maybe her willingness to do what it takes for her to try and clean her mess. Maybe through her willingness to fix her broken you can get some of the truth from her, starting with writing out the time line of her A. Maybe she will be willing to also get IC as well to figure out her "why". Maybe through her own efforts she will finally be able to explain her "why".

Bottom line, no matter what she does to own this and make efforts to fix it, you are have the ultimate right and decision to carry through with finalizing the D. I did, and I haven't regretted it since so you will be fine no matter what your decisions are along this road out of infidelity.

If you haven't already, tell the OM's wife ASAP. As much as we say she has a right to know so that SHE can take action to get herself out of infidelity, the OM needs to face some serious consequences for fucking with another man's wife as well as fucking around on his own wife. He needs to face consequences for abusing his power, derived from money and authority, for fucking with people's lives. Even more so, that ass-clown needs to stay busy putting out his own raging fire to be any kind of source for comfort or a confidant to your WW while you are having to deal with D process.

Yes guys I would never suggest hooking up with married women after some time alone he should start dating again if he wants to.

Space take care of yourself I know you are dealing with two things not only d but probably triggering back from your childhood regarding your mother.

We all know you are doing well considering.

One day at a time bro.

[quote]I left my wife a letter telling her I know about the affair. I also told her for closure I would appreciate it if she would explain to me in detail the who, why, where, and how and really all of the details of her affair. I left it at that since I really would like those details.[/quote]

It appears from the above that SG';s wife at this point has no idea that he knows exactly who the OM is, how she was going about it, and only knows he caught her. She will have about a week before she will probably get to face SG in person.

I am sorry but I feel it is important now that she knows she is caught what she tells him. OK, so all cheaters lie while they are in the affair. That part is over and she has ample time to decide on whether or not she will come clean or try to lie to him some more.

He has given her three opportunities prior to filing to tell him the truth and she has failed miserably each time. Let's see what she does now that the cat is out of the bag about the affair but no other details for her to know.

My guess, and YES it is projection. That is what we are doing when you give your opinion on something. I believe her friend and the OM will tell her to

(1) lie about the duration and when it started

(2) lie and tell SG she had stopped it weeks ago

(3) lie and try to tell SG it was some random OM. That way she could keep her job. Its stupid because if he demands OM name and check she would be caught in another lie but I think she will desparetely try to protect the OM. It would be a positive sign if she has quit the job before SG tells her he knows it was he boss, but I do not think that will happen.

If she comes clean on everything he knows at least it could be assumed she is truly remorseful. Don't think that will happen.

Hopefully, I will be wrong.

He still has to decide if whatever she does is good enough. Truly a tough one.

Uhhh...so on her first rodeo she got away totally clean and unsuspected, but on the second she forgot that maybe her husband might suspect shaved shrubbery? People usually improve with practice.

I think the OM was the skilled veteran. Wonder if his wife is his first. As long as we are wildly speculating.

I wasn't trying to start a fight here people. I was just mentioning this as a possibility.

My WW hid her affair well, but after a few months she got sloppy and I found evidence on her cell phone that she failed to delete. I've investigated and I'm quite sure this was her first A. Maybe this was OP's wife's first and only affair and she too got sloppy the further it went on.

If the OP doesn't want to go down this route and find out if there were other As then good for him. I just threw this idea in there as a possibility.

Regardless, I applaud the OP for his strength and resolve through this awful mess.

[This message edited by BeerParty at 12:12 PM, February 9th (Monday)]

Hey spaceghost

Just want to drop by and let you know I can't begin to understand what you are going through right now, but I have been in a similar place before. Trying to describe it in words doesn't do it justice. So I won't try.

Everything is out and at least you don't have to carry that with you.

Take some time with just you. Golf, relax, enjoy being by yourself again. Think of it as re-discovering the relationship you have with yourself. I know that sounds like new age malarkey, but it helps to have a purpose at times like this. You get to design what kind of life you want. You are the sole narrator in that story.

Going along with that, be good to yourself and your body. Punishing your body does not do yourself any favors. Drink responsibly, keep your head together, rest, eat, . . .you know the drill.

Anyway just saying I was thinking about you and hope you found a little bit of peace lately. As you progress that sense of peace will get larger and eventually is bigger that the bad parts.You more than deserve it. Trust me, it does get better. You are going to be just fine.

take care.

Well I am back it is raining so my golf got interrupted. What a shame since I was playing well and I was enjoying my life for the first time in almost 2 months. I actually felt normal for a while. So I caught up on some reading here. I really do enjoy other points of view so it was interesting reading. I will give a little update and clear up some things I read.

I am not a perfect man and I know this. The frustrating part of all of this is I really wanted to make my wife happy. She treated me well and I treated her well. Now all of a sudden both of our lives have been turned to crap all because she wanted to have some “FUN”.

I did receive two calls from my mother and father in law when I was out golfing but let go to voice mail. My wife went to them and told them about her affair. They called me because they were very worried about her since she was with them and could not stop crying. They are upset with her but they also want to protect her. I had a good relationship with them and they loved me like a son. So after talking to them I told them I would talk to my wife for a short time to make sure she is OK. She called me and wanted to have a big talk but I told her it was not the time for me. We talked for about 20 minutes and she told me how sorry she was and that she needed to see a therapist to figure out why she would do such a thing. She told me it was her only affair and it was stupid. She said she would do anything to save our marriage. I told her to see her therapist and we would talk when I get back. I did not want to do this over the phone. I still care about her. She is the mother of my children so I want her to be Ok. It sounds like she is getting the help she needs from her family.

I am divorcing me wife. I know how this sounds terrible but she is like damaged goods to me. This is not how a man should look at his wife. I know some people are able to get past this but I cannot. And I know some have said maybe I need counseling due to my mother issues but I do not agree. I treated my wife well and never cheated on her even once. We treated each other well so it was a good marriage. I also told my wife having sex with another man would end our marriage. I have no idea why I need counseling because I do not want to stay married to a woman who cheated on me. This is one of my core beliefs in life. She knew it was a deal breaker but it did not stop her.

When I first came here I was wondering if I was wrong about her. I said she acted like she loved me and she did so I was confused. I have found that she does indeed still love me. She is hurting right now and her lying has stopped. I still love her but I also cannot have a wife I feel is damaged goods. It is not fair to her or me. She deserves better than that and so do I. It seems my new job gave her the opportunity to cheat.

To clarify some things I did remove my VAR from her car. I found out what I needed so it was not necessary anymore. She does know that I know who the Other Man is. I will have the VAR on me when I return home to protect myself at all times. I do not anticipate needing it but I will have it on me just in case. Since she was served she is crying all the time and that is what I meant by setting her off. She is very sad and she does feel remorse and she is sorry. She told me she will answer any question that I want to know about but I just want to decompress and relax since I made the biggest decision in my life to end my marriage with the woman I was so in love with. There will be time later to find out those answers. I have been holding everything in for so long I just want to vacation right now.

I am an IT guy so my brain is kind of analytical. I usually do have a plan so I have been planning what I am going to do for about a month and a half. I have been to my lawyer and thought about what I want to do going forward.

I am going to keep on golfing and relaxing until next Week. I do not care about the outside world right now I just want to enjoy my days doing something I love doing. When I get back I do plan on telling the OM’s wife. I have no plans to do it now since I want to golf and do nothing else. I don’t care one bit about the OM but I will do it when I get back. The guy makes me sick and she deserves to know.

It still is a blow to my ego to even think about that piece of crap sleeping with my wife. But a little by little each day I have been feeling a little better. Probably because I am vacationing and really not living a real life right now since I don't have to deal with anything yet.

My plan is to not dwell on these things. I am overwhelmed by all the people posting to me. Thanks for reading I may be gone for a few days but I will return to update everyone.

My wife is not an evil person. I feel better knowing that. I hate the fact we both have to suffer now due to her decisions.

[This message edited by SpaceGhost0007 at 8:56 PM, February 9th (Monday)]

Space I cried reading your update what a f^cking waste.

You handled yourself the best you could I linked your thread in another forum to try to wake a guy up.

You don't owe us sh!t maybe way down the road pass it on it's therapy in a way.

I was accused by a mod I'm Mr divorce her now lol.

You have EVERY reason to divorce her.

Your wife is one of the few that is doing the heavy lifting.

That's why I cried there are so few.

All the best.