SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I would recommend you explore what divorce looks like for you. That means see a lawyer and make yourself an exit plan. I think you’re trapped with an unrepentant monster tbh. I wouldn’t be surprised if there were more affairs you don’t know about. I’m sorry but she’s had two affairs you know of. A leopard doesn’t change its spots.

Eric 1964, you have endured a lot and all the comments you are receiving now may seem overwhelming. I've read through all of them and there is excellent comment made and advice givin. the last from JayJay may seem harsh but finding out what that offers may be helpfull. I don't think you should persue it right away.

I want you to know you are not alone in how you handled your WW's infidelity. Our situations are very similar. I/we reacted in much the same way. It was very long ago, much longer that yours, mid 1980's. My wife had an affair with her boss, we were early 20's her AP boss, nearly 30. I don't know how long it went on for sure several months ?? probably not a year. We rug swept, she remained under his supervision for a few years. We didn't talk much about it. I suspected it restarted a couple times. Sought marraige counseling that was a disaster. She wouldn't participate. Once we had children a couple years later things calmed a little. We both have big families all know each other, very close. We settled in, built a house. I'm really glossing over things here.

Over 3 decades later my big triggers aligned at the same time. Retirement, health scare and my daughter learning she is the victim of infidelity not once but twice. These event occurred withing the span of 3 months along with the passing of my beloved father in law. I was instantly thrown back to the intensity of the betrayal. This time I said to myself, "I will not go through this again, alone". My start date here is withing a few weeks of my DDay. plus 35 years. It may be more intense than when I first learned of the cheating.

You have been given advice here to seek therapy. Before anything else, you must heal yourself. I found a therapist trained in infidelity trauma as well as couples counseling. She is helping me as an Individual Counselor, not couples. Maybe someday I will get my wife to agree to get help too. Im currently working on a trauma narrative with my counselor which has been very helpfull. learned some techniques to manage triggers and keep myself from getting disregulated. I couldn't finish a sentence or answer a question when we first started.

You and I have a lot in common. I think you can get the help you need here and with proffessional therapy. I look forward to more conversations with you. I have so much more comparisons yet to show you.

Good luck and be patient. You've held on this long, with help and advice I think you'll begin feeling a little better soon, at least with yourself.

BOAZ367

Tell your W that you are going to start living your life FOR YOU right now. She can either join you or you can do it as a bachelor.

Give her a list of non-negotiables such as full disclosure, a possible polygraph if you don't believe said disclosure and an active sex life.

Tell her to tell you now if she objects to any of your demands that way you guys can work on separating immediately.

Since it seems that's you would prefer to R, then make IC and MC part of your non-negotiables.

Brother, life is short! These are your golden years, so get to living!

[This message edited by GoldenR at 5:40 PM, Sunday, April 21st]

You mention two things that made me go hmmmm....

We never addressed the affair,

And

I realise that this is highly dysfunctional but we don't talk about it. We did attend marriage guidance (Relate: we're in the UK) but we never got to any root causes.

Are you saying you never mentioned her affair at MC?
Friend – that would be akin to going to a doctor to fix a broken arm, but never mentioning the arm and getting meds to deal with diarrhea. A MC can only deal with the issues that are shared with him.

It can be a very powerful moment when you acknowledge a problem to yourself, and to all stakeholders. You don’t have to offer a solution, because MAYBE they have it. But I think it’s fair to you and your wife that you tell her something like:

"Wife. I am not happy in life and in this marriage. I am 100% certain we can not carry on like we are now. I want more from a marriage than I am contributing right now, and more than you are offering. There are probably lost of reasons we are where we are now, but I KNOW that a key-factor for me is your affair and the way you kept it secret for so long.
I don’t know if we should be working on our marriage, if we should remain married or if we should simply accept that it’s done and start the process of burying and grieving this corpse. There is really no immediate rush. We definitely should understand what a divorce would look like in a realistic way and it definitely is a strong possibility.
I don’t have any suggestion on how to move on. If you do and if you want to remain married you really need to offer me some plan so we could possibly open a dialogue. I do however realize that we can’t do this without outside help. But then – if nothing changes I’m probably OK with divorce. It definitely beats what we have now."

Are you saying you never mentioned her affair at MC?

Yes, we did. However, the counsellor didn't probe this at all. I was expecting to be challenged regarding the root causes of the affair, but it never happened, and our sessions deteriorated into a nice chat.

As I've already said, there's so much good sense in the replies that I don't really know where to start. I'll give a little more detail, but it won't be very coherent.

(By the way, I'm in the UK - northern England - in case that's relevant re law/terminology etc.)

After the affair came to light, I got a message from the OM's wife calling me a wimp and saying my wife had been in touch with her several times - presumably begging her not to tell me about the affair. Until now, I've never seriously considered exactly how the affair ended, but now I think the OM's wife found out and made his life hell. In other words, my wife didn't end it voluntarily.

I also got a message from the OM which, I'm beginning to realise, has been a source of trauma for me. It contained three things: an accurate description of my sex life with my wife (that my wife had obviously discussed with him - and in our bed - and what she said clearly wasn't complimentary); a description of the sex he'd had with my wife, which tallied with the emails I'd read; and an accusation that my wife had had another affair previously. Because the first two things were true, I've tended to believe, or at least found it difficult to disbelieve, the last thing, the accusation of another affair. I also now realise that my wife brought a man who wanted to harm me psychologically into our marriage: having another man describing my sex life to me, and comparing it with the sex he had with my wife, has made me bitterly jealous and unhappy - but, strangely, this didn't even bother me that much until very recently: I guess I worked really hard to supress that, which probably explains why my recent depression has hit so hard. She doesn't know about this message: out of loyalty to her, I never replied to any messages, or pursued evidence of the supposed other affair. I regret this now.

After the affair, we had several instances of damage: our satellite cable was cut, my wife's tyres were slashed, we had stuff thrown at the house. The OM harassed my wife and intimidated her, and was arrested, but not charged. He made up a ridiculous allegation that my wife had vandalised their garage door (no evidence: he claimed he'd cleaned it off.)

A few days ago, I had a short one-to-one telephone appointment with a marriage counsellor (Relate, the organisation in the UK.) I didn't have time to give her the full story, but I think she was horrified by what she heard: the affair, the enforced celibacy. She said I absolutely must talk to my wife about this.

I'm feeling very discouraged at present but I am trying to move forward and to take things one day at a time. I sincerely appreciate all of your comments. I'm really grateful to you for taking time to help a guy out! I hope I'll never need to pay it forward, but I fear I will....

Eric, good luck with everything. I think you've received some good advice here and wish you the best.

I can definitely empathize with your story. My wife also had a long term affair, which I also didnt deal with right away away. You also mention a few other things that are very similar to what occurred in my wife's affair which are still hard for me to address. We had a poor sex life before and after her affair, I learned very explicit details of her affair where her affair partner went out of his way to do things which he knew would be emasculating for me and then I also had a 'version' of celibacy or very near-celibacy from my wife afterwards.
Good luck with your journey and I wish you the best.
R

Hi Eric, I’m a bit late coming in here, but hope you are still reading picking up valuable info here. As you can see from my profile below, I’ve been around for a long time but drop in every now and then.

I’m in the UK (obvious from my profile name!) and would suggest you look through two sites, the Counselling Directory and the British Association of Counsellors and Psychotherapists (BACP)

Relate is fine, but I think you need someone who is more experienced in dealing with trauma. I have to say that Relate came across to me as a bit "soft" when I needed something stronger to get things going.

I suggest you have individual counselling to focus on YOU and see where you are at this moment in time. Sift through the profiles and their areas of interest and then choose three or four for an initial appointment (interview) and see who you feel is the best one for you. Find the right counsellor/therapist. It’s a long road and it sounds like you could do with some help. You may find the first half hour session is free. Sounds like your WW could do with some IC as well.

UKg

I've read some other threads here which I've found very discouraging, because they show me that I handled things so badly fourteen years ago when DDay happened. I did just about everything wrong: forgiving her far too soon, not getting full details of the affair, going back to normal almost immediately (we went on holiday about six weeks after.)

The other aggravating factor is that our sex life was poor before the affair, during, and after, then it stopped altogether six years ago.

Dear Eric,

I hope you landed in the right place for some suggestions, we have all been there and many have really come out of all that mess, so please be positive.

Don't be yourself up for the way you handled the affair 14 years ago. You did what you could in the circumstances back then. Now you have a different understanding of how things should have dealt with and on top of that your sex life has been non existent for a long time.

In my opinion the difference between a good friend and a spouse is that with a fiend you don't have sex, but with your life you really would love to and that is the normality. There should be attraction and complicity.

I don't know what are the things that keep you in your marriage, but I strongly believe you should address the issues with your wife, all of them, because there is certainly a lot of resentment on your side, but probably your wife is feeling the same for her own reasons. Only open, authentic dialogue can create a meaningful relationship.

As my therapist says, sometimes people don't really know how they got to a certain point, but ask the right questions so that you can explore yourselves and understand if you can make your relationship a good one.

What are your dreams about how your partner should feel in the relationship? Do you like the idea that I feel safe with you? When I entered the relationship I was hoping to have found an empathic, emotionally involved partner. Do you feel I am? Do you feel that you can talk to me about anything and everything? If not, what do you think is the obstacle? You should both ask these questions, not only your wife or you.

I used to enjoy our sex life. What made you completely stop looking for sex with me? Is there anything we can do to address the issue? If we can't alone, what about asking for help?

I honestly BELIEVE there is a solution for every problem, but you need to explore how to find it. Please keep us in the loop and please go to therapy, alone and possibly with your spouse. It doesn't have to be in the UK, we did lots of therapy online, so it could also be someone in the USA, maybe here someone can recommend the right one. Think about it.

[This message edited by Fantastic at 7:59 PM, Tuesday, May 14th]

I also got a message from the OM which, I'm beginning to realise, has been a source of trauma for me.

This has really struck me. On Surviving Infidelity many people suggest to speak to the OM's wife or OW's husband. In my case the FB had already divorced, but I have always thought that speaking to the person who only wants my marriage to end would never be a good idea. They would say things to hurt me and make me doubt anything just to THEIR ADVANTAGE or to their VENDETTA. How could you ever believe a word they say? How could you not see how just hurtful they WANT TO BE?

My husband's ex AP wrote to my husband a few times in the evening after the affair had ended, when she knew he was at home WITH ME. All she wanted was to create a mess in our family, that we would argue. She hoped I WOULD END THE MARRIAGE, because that was the only chance she had to see my husband as a free man and maybe, if he had been ditched, he could decide to go with her. She wasn't interested in his love, she just wanted him as a possession and in her opinion I was the obstacle. So she tried all she could to defeat and destroy me. She got really close, but she didn't succeed.

SO the OM cause you a trauma and that is understandable. Now you really need to have a good support and your wife needs to know where your hurt comes from. I imagine that she is traumatised too, but she feels so guilty to have brought all this pain to her family that she feels paralised. Have you ever thought of moving to a different part of the country? Thinking that this man is capable to cause damage to your property does not mean he wouldn't get to the point where he is hurting you or your wife. He seems insane. Protect yourself, your wife and your property.

To UKGirl - thank you for your thoughts. My wife has just started seeing a clinical psychologist, not really to do with our affair, but she may well get to that if she goes for long enough. I will consider doing the same.

To Fantastic - some good suggestions there - thank you.

Have you ever thought of moving to a different part of the country?

It was a very long time ago that he last contacted me. And one thing's for sure: I'll make my own choices about where I live.

To paraphrase a saying about planting trees, the best time to do things right with regards to the affair was 14 years ago, the next best time is today. There is nothing that says you can’t hit the reset button and start over. The key is to make it a clear break, a sharp shock to the system. Tell your wife that you did things wrong 14 years ago and then it has crippled your relationship. For both of you. Now are you you are going to fix it, and you’re going to do that by starting from scratch.

Hi Eric, I see a lot of myself in your story. I found out about my wife's affair about 8 months ago, and she does not know that I know. And unfortunately, for a number of reasons, it has to stay that way, truly unfortunately. But one thing you wrote really resonated with me -- "that my wife brought a man who wanted to harm me psychologically into our marriage". This is exactly what happened to me a week ago. I don't want to go into the details here, because 2 sentences wouldn't do it justice, bu my wife made up a lame excuse, but I know for a fact what is going on is he really wants to humiliate me.

I just made another post in this same sub-forum. I'm looking for someone to talk with one on one (anonymously on both ends) to process what is going on. I can't seem to send you a private message. If you are able to send me one, please do, or if you are not, feel free to let me know here.

Absolutely no pressure, and I completely understand if this is not something you are interested in.

So lets get this straight.

Your wife finds a guy to have sex. Seems to enjoy it.
Stops having sex entirely with you.
You want to have sex or at least that connection
But you won't/haven't talked about that time she actively persued and had sex with another man

Now you're trying to square that and move on...to what exactly?

I wanted to address the comment from Survus that it sounds like your wife was never into you sexually. As soon as I read the comment I was pretty sure it was not written by a woman. I am a woman - and I can tell you that I am in the same boat as your WS re sexual activity (and I have several female friends who have indicated they feel the same or similarly in that they rarely really desire sex). I used to be super into my WS sexually. But I will admit that even before the A I just sort of lost interest in sex. I can get into it once we head in that direction, but honestly, I don't miss it. These feelings have NOTHING to do with my WH or any other man I might date (we are divorced but dating).

I think initially the whole "this is new" thing would rev up my sex drive with the right person, but I have no doubt it would revert to where it is. IIn the words of Jeff Foxworthy, while when I was younger I would be ready for action at all hours, now I go to sleep and hope to dream about sex.

So, OP, your WS's sexual prowess or lackthereof is likely not related to you. Even if she shows interest in someone new, and it seems like you know this already based on your comment.

Bump by request

I hope members won't mind if I post a short update: I've referred myself to Relate (UK marriage guidance) and am waiting to hear from them. My intention is to go to a few appointments on my own, and take it from there. I've compiled a list of various aspects of the affair, and our relationship, that I want to discuss. Also, my wife and I had a short and uncomfortable conversation about her affair a few weeks ago, in which I told her that I felt as if I'd been signed up to a lifelong vow of celibacy. I think this prompted her to do something about the post-menopausal issues that have affected our sex life. Great? Well, yes, I suppose so, but she related a conversation she had with her doctor, who asked my wife why she'd left it so long (we've not had sex for over six year) and my wife replied, "Because I wasn't bothered." I think my wife has a near-total blind spot when it comes to the importance of sex within our marriage.

I welcome all comments, as I've found them helpful, even when people are telling me I should do things differently.

You should have, or should do now exactly what GoldenR succinctly wrote to you. You can’t nice your way through this.

I have not been on this site for years let alone posted anything but something told me to look…Kind of like that something that told me to click on that weird file on the computer I never gave a second thought to resulting in my marriage imploding.

My D day was in 2002. I stayed with my husband even though I got trickle truth and lies that it was over when it was not. I can’t tell you why I stayed,’ love? Fear? Laziness? Ultimately here I am.

I wish I could tell you that my marriage made a full "better than ever" recovery but no. The pain is gone but the memories linger on. I do not have bouts of depression but there are places to this day I still will not go and songs that can make my stomach turn a little. All in all I am content with my choice to stay although I will never love or trust my husband in quite the same way. I liken it to a pristine sheet of paper that has been crumpled. You can flatten out again and while it will never be as it once was you can still write on it, ya know? Maybe it is the stoic in me but I refuse to allow outside circumstances to create debilitating inner turmoil for me. I accept that my marriage is what it is with no chance of a happily ever after. All I can do is move accordingly to look out for my best interests, enjoy what good there is to enjoy, and -most importantly- maintain my peace. I hope you are able to do the same whether you choose to stay or go.

@free2Bme

Thank you for posting. Yes, I can't imagine things every being the same again. I think a post-affair marriage can be better in the sense that the couple get to know each other better - but that is only if both are prepared to go through a major pain barrier.

My wife has been to the doctor to try to resolve problems that were stopping us having sex, and we are now planning to resume our sex life after several years. I'm pleased about this - I still desire my wife - but problems are attached to our sex life (and always have been) and I don't think I'm prepared to pretend these problems don't exist any more: I've no idea how my wife will cope with that.

Another aspect of sex - very unpleasant to contemplate - is that a shockingly high proportion of women have been raped or sexually assaulted, and I wonder if that applies to my wife, and could explain why she finds intimacy in a long-term relationship so incredibly difficult.

Thank you for sharing part of your story and I wish you well.

[This message edited by Eric1964 at 9:40 PM, Thursday, October 3rd]