SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

You're quite well-versed on the topic of infidelity now and you're coming from the mindset of an experienced BS, not a newb WS. It's VERY different.

No, those emotions, for me, would be instinctive. I think that fear of great loss would be spontaneous. Not from an indoctrinated mindset. I can't imagine pining for, or wondering about, or missing my AP after causing such great harm to my marriage and my spouse. I would be overwhelmed with remorse.

[This message edited by RealityBlows at 10:40 PM, Monday, August 23rd]

No, those emotions, for me, would be instinctive. I think that fear of great loss would be spontaneous. Not from an indoctrinated mindset.

You think, but you don't know, though, do you? You haven't worn WS shoes, just BS shoes. That's my point.

Before DDAy, I said a thousand times that I would leave my H if he ever cheated on me. DDay happened and, lo and behold, my first inclination was not to leave, but to fix things. Judging from my experience on this site over the last two decades (this is my second profile due to email issues,) most BSs have the same experience. What you think you'll do and what you actually do don't usually jibe.

I think the OP would get a much deeper and more refined response from WSs who have experienced what his W is feeling. Might be good to post the question here:

https://survivinginfidelity.com/topics/647706/bs-questions-for-ws-part-14/

How to stay in a relationship when she has feelings for her AP

Gently, you don't. The only way to stay in a relationship with her when she has feelings for her AP is to do the pick me dance and to become a cuckold. I know that word seems harsh, and it tends to get overused, but it has a specific meaning and that's the only way I'm using it here: not to be derogatory of you, but to keep it real.

The only healthy way to deal with this is to detach and start making arrangements to live your life separately. Implement a hard 180. Don't moon around. Lose weight, start an exercise regimen, get some new clothes, start a new social life without her. Do it for you, not as some weak gambit to "win her love." Do it because you are actually moving on with your life.

That's how you deal with it.

You say you love her, but let me caution you: What you really love is the wife you THOUGHT you had, not this new person who has been revealed to you. The one (the wife you thought you had) is a figment of your imagination. The other (the real woman in front of you) is the person you'll have to deal with from now on.

Most betrayed husbands fall into the pick me dance and desperately want their wives back -- because after all, 10 seconds before discovery most thought they were in a faithful, loving monogamous life partnership.

How do I know? Because that is what I did!

Most betrayed husbands don't think about: What you will REALLY be getting back. What you're really getting back isn't the woman you put on a pedestal and admired. It's the woman who was willing to lie to your face countless times, wantonly and willingly pursue another man, lie some more, only pretend to stop when she was caught, pine for him, and then lie some more.

How do I know? Because that's exactly what I didn't think about.

It will occur to you over time if you stay with her that she's not special, she never was, and that there are plenty of women out in the world she can't hold a candle to. That's the truth, brother.

How do I know? Because I'm living it!

[This message edited by Thumos at 11:42 PM, Monday, August 23rd]

You don’t have a relationship to stay in.

Full exposure is a must if you want a chance at a R. Other spouse, family, friends, etc. it’s not you job to help hide her affair.

If you are living in fear then you wife has control and will dictate what you are allowed.

You are Plan B. She pines for him but she'll be a martyr and settle for you, your marriage and family. She'll be unhappy about it but martyrs give up so much until another opportunity happens, the children are older, etc., etc.

File for D and have her served. If she has a rude awakening and really steps up to the plate, consistently and for some time there may be a chance. Where I live it takes quite some time to D. Filing only indicates that is your intention. Separation agreements need to be drawn up and agreed to and the appropriate time past to actually get to an actual D.

13yearsR, I agree, I am not a WS and am challenged with empathizing with a WS who continues to have residual emotions for her AP in the wake of such incredible devastation and, I also can't imagine cheating on someone I truly love but, I do believe that this does happen. There are those who believe that cheating is a clear sign that your are not truly in love. I know that life and love and humans are infinitely more complicated than that. There are reconciliation stories here that prove that. There are former WS's here who have successfully demonstrated their devotion to their BS's and are doing very well.

I think in the OP's case, does his WW miss the superficial feels or does she miss the individual? Does she miss the dopamine rush of novel illicit mutual attraction or, does she miss the individual? Did that individual provide something missed, an unmet need, an unmet need crucial enough to risk all, that the OP can not fill? If she misses the individual and his particular offerings, that could be a problem. COULD be a problem. A problem that could plague their reconciliation for a long time-if not forever. If she just misses the superficial limerent feels, than that's something you can work with. This, I think, is the question the OP is asking and will be asking for a long, long time. Some of us would just rather not have THAT question over shadowing our idealistic love stories.

It is encouraging that his WS is being transparent and sharing what's going on in her head and willing to talk about it.

[This message edited by RealityBlows at 11:51 PM, Monday, August 23rd]

However 3 months later she has now confessed and said she does have feelings for him but she doesnt want to be with hi, She said she misses him and thinks about what they had together But she wants me and our family.

She said the feelings are just concerning what they shed together and how he made her feel.

The rantings of an insecure high-school girl.

This is not anywhere near the maturity needed for a married mother.

The question I have got is how can I go home every night thinking that we should be putting all the effort into fixing what we have when she is just thinking about what they had.

You cannot fix her and there is really no fixing any of this when she simply does not have the maturity and awareness to realize how horrible she is behaving and how despicably cruel she is being to you and your family.

Think about this behavior - it is inconceivably selfish and narcissistic and she simply has no awareness of it.

Strongly communicate to her that her "feelings for him" are not about him, but rather her grotesque childishness and selfishness.

And then strongly communicate to her to grow the fuck up.

My XWW expressed the same pathetic drivel about having "feelings for him" but it was a moot point as I was already far beyond the point of no return and committed to divorcing this childish mess.

She wanted to reconcile.

Nearly nine years later, she is still the same selfish and childish narcissist as I discovered that she was back then.

PS: Her adultery guy, the guy she still had "feelings for him"? The guy she declared as the greatest and deepest love she had ever felt in her life? The guy she destroyed her marriage for, destroyed her family for, and traumatized her children for? Nowhere to be found. Completely gone. Turned out, as she found out herself, to be a grade-A, 100%, total piece of worthless shit. She will, for life, carry a mind-bending, unbearable level of humiliation.

But, she will always blame someone or something else for her behavior and decisions.

Think carefully going forward.

[This message edited by keptmyword at 10:58 PM, Tuesday, August 24th]

To help you understand what she is doing/experiencing you may want to read up on limerance. This may help you to grasp why she is feeling this way.

That doesn't by any means justify her feelings. It also doesn't bode well for q chance at R especially if you dont demand better or draw a serious line in the sand immediately.

Also if its 3 mos out from Dday it may be time to investigate and ensure it is really over. As are like addiction inane ways but usually if the source is removed the addiction starts and the person starts to recover.

[This message edited by tushnurse at 1:44 PM, Tuesday, August 24th]

You should definitely read about limerence. It is a real phenomenon. That said, like most things regarding wayward spouses ("low self esteem," FOO issues etc) it can also be used as a crutch. Since we now know that humans are actually able to change the structure of their own brains through free will (neuroplasticity) limerence doesn't hold as much sway as a legitimate fallback for waywards. They can overcome the limerence if they choose to do so. They can also wallow in it and have a pity party. Again, like most things involving infidelity, the choice they make reveals true character.

[This message edited by Thumos at 7:41 PM, Tuesday, August 24th]

Excuse me. "Only" seven weeks? That is enough time for plenty of sex and way more than enough to destroy a marriage. And she is still pining away because the seven weeks had a period of time before, during which the flirting and all the courtship goes down. You need to rethink her narrative.

To answer the question in your title, you don’t. Read the healing library. You can’t nice your way forward on this. You can’t reason with her. She doesn’t get to stay in a relationship when she loves another. Time to take action. Maybe it will knock her off the fence when she sees some real life consequences.

[This message edited by longsadstory1952 at 3:40 AM, Tuesday, August 24th]

From your initial thread:

Every day I keep bringing up the affair and asking her questions such as does she miss him, does she have feelings for him and does she love him. I speak about it all the time, i text about it all the time. I just cant get it off my mind and we never have a normal conversation.

She says no to all the above but I just don't believe her.

This is in stark contrast to what she is saying now, and you were right in not trusting what she said.

Which bring me to this other little thing:

She was only seeing him for 7 weeks (so she said) and she had slept with him once (so she said)

How sure are you of the time, and the frequency? Are you going to accept it at face value?

As to your question in the topic, you are currently in a relationship with yourself, as your WS is definitely not in a relationship with you. So, you are technically not in a relationship at all.

Anyway, what has your WS been doing to earn her chance at R, or have you just handed R on a platter to her, so that she does not have to work for it?

What consequences does she have? Has she tried to work towards being a safe person to you and your family? Has she given you unfettered access to her communications?

P-

There's no way she's in love with him from just having sex 1 time with him.

Or did she finally come clean on that horseshit?

Im just very confused.

I see what people are saying and if I was on the other side I would be saying exactly the same thing LEAVE!!!

But she seems to be trying doing and saying all the right things and she is being honest, so shouldn't I be thankful for that. But I do see she has been lying to me for a long time.

Now she has lied im starting to think has this only been going on for the period of time that she has said, did she really only sleep with him the once.

She keeps saying to me she isn't in love with him She keeps saying she thinks about what they had and how he made her feel and thats what she misses and they are the feelings she has toward him. I understand about the affair for and the limerant but what she is feeling that could be love, right?

And if I decide to stay wont these feelings eat her up inside or will they fade.

I would have thought out of sight out of mind would have made the feelings subside by now, its been three months since cutting contact. She says its because I keep bring it up every day all the time thats its in her mind which could be true. But she says the feelings haven't got stronger and she hasn't been in contact.

She has agreed to give me access to her phone but she could have another phone now or email contact him via email when at work.

I know I have to try and trust what she saying but how the hell can I. She is a lier but I do love her and I know im a D!*k head for wanting to stay

Whether you go for D or R, that's for you to decide. What people suggest here is usually based on what you wrote.

In my view, you're not sure yourself if the affair is still ongoing or not. Yes, she's given you access to her phone but they might still be communicating through her work email. She might have a burner phone she leaves at work. They might have other means of communication, you never know. To mitigate that, you can either hire a PI or buy some VARs then plant them on her car or whatever place you can put them. Is she providing you her location at all times? Is her phone location always on to show that she's really working hard on reconciliation? What other proofs she's providing that she's truly 100% committed on repairing the damage she's done?

How sure are you that she's truly remorseful? What if she just shows you what you need to know? What if she's living a double life? She's done it, why not stop now especially since she admitted that she has very strong feeling towards the other guy. What's the status of the other guy? Is he married? Is he single? Why won't she just file for divorce and leave? Why cling on to you while she's very much having strong feelings towards the guy?

What makes you think she's telling the truth now? She lied to your face for a long time? Would you ever trust her again? Trust is like a glass, once it's broken you won't be able to put it back again. It's part of your post. You're not sure if she's still communicating with her AP. You're not sure if the affair is still ongoing. Because you clearly don't trust her.

Have you scheduled yourself for STD tests? Did you ask her for a written timeline of her affair to be verified against a polygraph test? Have you asked her to provide you access to all communication devices, including burner phones if she has any? Have you asked her to provide you her location at all times to show her good faith? Did she send out a no contact message, email or other means of communication to her affair partner and showed it to you?

All these things, she should be prepared to commit 100%, if not, then there's a strong possibility that she's still having an affair.

All the best!

I have asked her to provide me access to her phone and she was willing to do that. I couldn't find anything on the phone apart from his number being in her blocked contacts.

Her location services are switched on within google but I feel controlling logging into that and checking up on her.

She did send him a no contact text message which he then replied to and tried calling her on the Monday. She sent another on the Wednesday and he just replied saying ok it wasnt a mistake as we both wanted it but I accept your decision.

Thats always seemed strange to me, because if they loved each other and then just hours ago they were in the car together then he had a message saying sorry but its over please dont contact me again wouldn't you try and keep the person you love or at least ask more questions to why ??

The AP is no longer married. His wife left him about 1 year ago as she had an afair and left him and took his kids away.

I played a bit of a mind game and told her that I want to see her snap chat as we could login and download the snap chat data. I told her this would show all communications and locations. She said ok do what you need to when we was in the car. But she said are you sure you want to do that as she wouldn't want to read my messages from an affair.

We got home and I got the laptop and said log me in. She said no. I said why. She said because there are conversations that I dont want you to see. I asked like what and she said she doesnt know she cant remember. I said if I log in to that its going to show me that this is much more than you have had me believe isn't it and she said yes. Thats when she told me she does miss him and have feelings for him.

But on the other side she does everything she can to make things better. She's loving she seems to care she takes responsibility for doing wrong hurting people and says the affair is the biggest mistake of her life and she wants me and our family

I really dont know what to believe any more all I know is im tired of the whole thing.

She had the last 3 months to work on us and out our family back together which she has been trying but why is she thinking of her AP when she should be putting all her effort into us

I said if I log in to that its going to show me that this is much more than you have had me believe isn't it and she said yes. Thats when she told me she does miss him and have feelings for him.

This is called trickle truthing. The deeper you dive in knowing the truth the more smaller details arise. So not willing to show you her snapchat is a big red flag. They might still be communicating and the affair is still full-blown. From my previous message, if any of the things you ask from her, she's not willing to provide, then the affair is still in progress. She just wants to show you what you need to know.

The POSOM is a known cheater. He knows how to play the game. Your wife has been played. She fell for a romantic man who's been playing the game for a long time. Maybe she knows he's only in it for the sex. He's only in it for the good time. He's only in it for the thrills. He doesn't want commitment, only sex. Your wife is in love with POSOM but since he can't commit, she's stuck with her plan B, which is you.

She's not fully truthful to you. If she won't provide you details of her affair, then it is likely that they're still seeing each other. Nothing can stop a woman in love with her affair partner and so deep in the fog. Only a threat of divorce will stop her now.

If you're truly willing to work on reconciliation, then you should get her out of the affair fog. If you're willing to fix your marriage then you should be willing to destroy it first. Only the threat of a divorce will get her out of the fog. She's still deep in it.

All the best!

We got home and I got the laptop and said log me in. She said no. I said why. She said because there are conversations that I dont want you to see. I asked like what and she said she doesnt know she cant remember. I said if I log in to that its going to show me that this is much more than you have had me believe isn't it and she said yes. Thats when she told me she does miss him and have feelings for him.

Just so I understand the timeline, how long ago did the above occur?

If there’s a discrepancy between what she’s saying and what she’s doing/feeling it’s because she’s lying.

Maybe it wasn’t 7 weeks. Maybe it wasn’t just one night. Maybe their were plans to be together. Maybe it isn’t even over… or maybe she never had feelings but saying she does now distracts from the acts and betrayals then.

The fact she won’t let you see Snapchat and also can’t recall what was said on there speaks volumes. How can she know you don’t/shouldn’t see it if she doesn’t know what "it" is?

Personally. I think this whole "having feelings for him" is a smoke screen. She’s using it to stop you from prying. Draw focus. Her "feelings" for him turn a series of specific events into an ambiguous concept she can defend easier.

If you don’t know specifics she can avoid consequences better. She has pivoted what she did into what she is feeling now. Your title says it all, you’re focused on these feelings she has now and she’s using them to rugsweep. Draw focus from elsewhere. Remember these "feelings" can disappear whenever she needs… and appear when needed.

She wants you to stop talking so much about the affair because it keeps these "feelings" around. Convenient that eh? It’s a smokescreen… as literal to that term as I can think of.

She’s obscuring and distracting from details behind this cloud of "I have feelings". None of what happens reconciles with these "feelings" because they’re being either created or focused on to distract. I’d be ignoring them and find out what she’s hiding behind all this.

It’s understandable that it’s going to take you a while to realize that the best approach to rebuilding is NOT to do it while you’re WW is still pining for another man and still holds a place for him in your heart.

If it were me, and yes easy for me to say since I’m not feeling what you’re feeling, but I would keep it simple what I tell her.

"While you still hold this man in your heart, there cannot be a you and me. I need a life partner who sees me and only me as their one true love. You obviously do not feel that way. And until you see him the way I do, as a piece of shit who helped you destroy your marriage and family, then there is no hope that we will be able to rebuild what your affair has destroyed.

I think it’s best we separate for a while. You need to work on you. Perhaps he is what you need in your life and not me. You need to figure that out.

And I need to work myself on healing from this hole that is now in my heart. I can’t do that while you’re here with me thinking of what you had with this other person and how you let him get away.

I wish you well finding what you are looking for. You were that person for me. I’m sorry I couldn’t be the same for you"

Then I urge you to stop talking with her about all this for a while. It doesn’t seem to be doing you any good.

You are right to be feeling what you are feeling. As many here have told you, if she were all in with you, she wouldn’t still be hiding things to protect her memories of the other man.

No she would be standing right beside you saying "i was as much a piece of shit as the AP or even more. Look what I said to him on Snapchat. I hate myself for it and I hate how it hurt you. I’m ready to discuss this as much as you need as often as you need as I hate who I was as much as you do. Probably more. My focus is you not him. He turns my stomach now and I’m prepared to do the work as long as we need to warn your trust back and make you proud of me again"

That is what a truly remorseful WS sounds like.

It’s good she’s being honest. You can thank her for that. But it doesn’t change the fact that she can’t give you 100% while she’s still thinking about him fondly.

So you don’t have to be antagonistic about it. State it as calmly as possible in these tough times. Tell her she needs to figure out what it is She truly wants. And if it’s you, there can be no lingering doubts or fond memories of him. While she’s still protecting those ideas. In her mind or on Snapchat, then she is still protecting him and what they had, not you. She is still protecting him but keeping you from this. Tell her that.

I’m sorry. But I and others here speak the truth. And deep down you know it. Unfortunately you’ll remain in this limbo until you can come to grips with it and do something about it. That’s not unusual but doesn’t change the facts. I hope you can find the strength to simply and honestly communicate these things to her, and then begin the process to move on, separate, until she can honestly tell you he’s no longer has a fondness for him, but has replaced it with disgust.

A friend of mine was in your case.

His wife had cheated on him with another guy during 10 months (she initially said it was only 1 month).

Of course she had feelings for this guy and didn't say it.

At the beginning, my friend was playing the pick me dance, but that didn't really work. Trickle truth, etc.

That lasted about a month.

She even asked to continue to see this guy as a friend..

Everything changed when he said "I'm done" and he asked her to go with her parents.

The same night she came back, begging, crying, etc.

The next day they talked during 4 hours, she said much more truth during those hours than the 30 previous days. He did not took her back until she had told him the whole truth, and cut all contact with her POS.

That was in October.

Today they are still together, and it seems OK.

What you have to do :

- Be ready to loose your mariage if you want a chance to save it (but be sure it is not guaranteed..).

- DO NOT ACCEPT a partial truth. You want to know what you have to forgive. If she cannot provide this to you, you should not talk to her until she gives you the whole truth.

This whole thing is NOT acceptable. Do not act like it is.

[This message edited by jujuchrist at 2:02 PM, Tuesday, August 24th]