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Just Found Out :
How to stay in a relationship when she has feelings for her AP

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beb252 ( Member #78948) posted at 11:40 AM on Wednesday, August 25th, 2021

I wish I had the energy and the guts to follow through with what I have threatened.

So just watch yourself go further down if you don't act. Nothing will change. She'll continue with her affair. You'll just suck it in at the corner. You'll just have to watch her life and chat with her lover. Go home, proclaim her love for you, after she's done everything with her boyfriend - or you might get some action too. After she's done with her boyfriend for the day.

You're in limbo. And everyday you let this happen. Your pain keeps on adding up. Nothing gets resolved because of your inaction. Yes, you love her but for what? Your sanity is affected. Everyday, she keeps on adding new wounds. You'll be more miserable down the line if you just watch her enjoy her double life. She proclaims her love for you and also to her lover. Heck, she might be laughing her ass off once she turns her back on you. She will do anything she wants because, yeah, you love her and you don't want to lose her.

You already lost her. The other guy already won. He owns her now. She's in love with him. She's just staying with you for life's comfort and she has her new boyfriend for her newfound sexual pleasures. It's a win-win situation for her. For you, you'll just have to watch her enjoying her life. While you keeps on sulking at the corner, because you love her.

Good luck! You'll need lots of it but from what I can see, you're future is bleak!

posts: 376   ·   registered: Jun. 14th, 2021
id 8685301
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Luna10 ( Member #60888) posted at 11:43 AM on Wednesday, August 25th, 2021

Unfortunately they don’t come to their senses until you become unavailable (some of them not even then).

My WH was in love with his AP. But think about it, what kind of love is that? Two people pretending to be someone they are not day in day out. Affairs are role playing. They reflect what the AP wants to see. And the AP ignores the bad justifying it by blaming the victim (he/she is having an affair because their spouse is oh so awful), stubbornly refusing to see who they really are. The most ironic and puzzling thing I’ve ever seen was WH’s AP posting on FB after dday that she’d never choose to stay with a liar. Lol. How convenient to notice he was a liar only when he booted you, ignoring he was a liar the entire time and your mere existence in his life actually turned him into one, you knew and you tolerated and encouraged it.

Anyway my story is way too long to detail it all here. My WH like your WW was arguably doing everything to remain married to me after dday 1 whilst in the background he couldn’t abandon his damsel in distress because somehow she was his responsibility too. They maintained contact without my knowledge whilst swearing on his kids’ life they’re not in contact. Yup. That’s how scummy cheaters became. Don’t fool yourself, your wife is no different.

And by the way, no they didn’t have sex just once as she claims. Don’t fall for it. You see, on dday we all collapse on the floor wondering which way is up or down and when talking to our spouses we still think they’re who we thought they were. It takes us a while to realise they aren’t. And that’s normal, they are a constant in our lives and admitting we married someone who is willing to hurt us so badly is crazy making. But they are deceitful, post dday if their lips move they're lying. And we believe it even when it doesn’t make sense.

In my case dday 2 arrived (bunny boiler AP threatened to blow his world up if he doesn’t leave me so he had to confess that he remained friends with her) and I emotionally shut down. Told him I was done but logistically I couldn’t split us up until a few months later.

He vouched to try to win me back in the meantime. He’s still winning me back 4 years later. I can say we’re happy now but we both know where we stand.

Once I become unavailable emotionally and stopped trusting what he said, only watching actions, I realised what a spouse working hard to R after an affair looks like. What you’re getting now is crumbs. She’s appeasing you whilst she’s acting like a Shakespeare heroine who lost her true “luuurve”. Let her go for it. Don’t be me. What you have now will not be enough. My WH put in some huge effort to R post dday 2 (IC, MC, real life changes, talking about the A for hours on end, my anger, my sadness, sobbing, both of us sobbing) and I still have anger bubbling up from time to time 4 years later. If he would have continued to give me crumbs… we would have had absolutely no chance.

BW - 38 at the time of the A
WH - 45
Dday - 27/9/2017

posts: 1366   ·   registered: Oct. 2nd, 2017   ·   location: UK
id 8685303
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 p12241342 (original poster New Member #79267) posted at 12:01 PM on Wednesday, August 25th, 2021

I suppose if I'm honest I'm thinking why the hell would she want to come back to our marriage if I was to do a 180.

She has said she hates me she has said she would be better off on her own, she has said she can be herself when im not around and things seem calmer at home even for the kids when im out. She said the atmosphere has gone when im not around and by me moping around being sad because of whats happened isn't good for the kids. She said it makes her sad that im sad and she has done that to me but I need to try and act happier for the kids.

The way I see it is her AP is a free agent. She is attracted and completely in love with him from what I can see and he feels the same way.

I think the only real thing stopping her leaving is its my sons, best friends - dad. He is about to go into secondary school and he would get teased if this was too come out. Plus my wife is friends with her AP ex wife and see them at the school gates. She doesnt want people talking. I told her it wasnt my job to keep her little secret.

She even admitted that she has thought how this would affect my son. She even said that she has to forget him I asked why she feels that and not saying because its the right thing to do for the family she said because she has too.

posts: 15   ·   registered: Aug. 11th, 2021
id 8685308
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Luna10 ( Member #60888) posted at 12:20 PM on Wednesday, August 25th, 2021

I see…

Can I ask you something? How do you see this evolving? What’s the end goal?

Because this isn’t about what your wife wants, it’s about your life. So she made her offer: she will continue loving her AP in secret (whilst the A may actually continue in the background) and in return you need to suck it up, stop moping around, plaster a smile on your face and pretend you’re happy.

Is that good enough? What’s in it for you besides spending the rest of your life with an arrogant cheater?

Because what I said above is true for most people. Once you come out of the fog, realise who the prize is (YOU!), realise what your spouse did, the true impact of it (trauma, ptsd, depression, anger) you need to have something to show for your decision to have taken the R path. And get this: nothing, absolutely nothing, will feel like it’s a fair price for the things she’s put you through.

When I feel the anger bubbling, when I’m haunted by the betrayal memories, the only thing that soothes me is a reminder of all the work he’s done in the last 3 and a half years since dday 2. It’s reminding myself that perhaps it wasn’t a huge mistake to stay. It’s counting my own progress and knowing that today if he steps out of our marriage again, in any form or shape, I have no regrets, I held him accountable and I only stayed if he was willing to move mountains. Is knowing that chances at fixing things are won, not deserved. It’s knowing that at no point, once I realised just how much “luuurve” he was willing to give away at the cost of slaughtering my mental and emotional health, did I accept to be the third wheel in my WH’s life.

These things make me content with my choice.

And frankly there is no other way. I’ve seen people returning here after 5/6/10 years from dday describing your situation and saying they are unhappy and wasted years of their lives.

Last thing: today my WH went in the office (he worked from home for the last year and a half). He didn’t tell me to stop moping. He asked me last night what I need to not trigger as my ptsd kicks in when changes happen. He told me he’ll call. He texted twice already. His location app is on. I don’t even need it anymore. But this is what a willing R participant does. He doesn’t assume he needs to play nice for a while to appease you. He understands that he potentially inflicted trauma on you for life. And if he stays he’ll have to take responsibility for it.

P.S. my WH’s AP was also single so he could have gone and be with her. Bottom line: why would you even consider staying with someone who loves someone else? You deserve better. We all do.

[This message edited by Luna10 at 6:47 AM, August 25th (Wednesday)]

BW - 38 at the time of the A
WH - 45
Dday - 27/9/2017

posts: 1366   ·   registered: Oct. 2nd, 2017   ·   location: UK
id 8685310
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WontBeFooledAgai ( Member #72671) posted at 12:25 PM on Wednesday, August 25th, 2021

OP, what are your WW's "why"s. Is your WW seeing a therapist who specializes in infidelity.

Your WW needs to do some digging on WHY she ALLOWED herself to betray you and your FAMILY. "I was not happy before" is not a real "why", a real "why" instead is about HER own shortcomings, not those of the marriage or you. You were in the same marriage but you didn't cheat.

Your WW also needs to give you a full timeline of how the affair came to be and what happened during the affair.

But this is all down-the-road stuff. OP, are you even sure she is out of the affair. You need to have access to all of her communication devises. Meanwhile OP, women basically NEVER respect men they can walk all over. If you don't respect yourself, why would she.

posts: 289   ·   registered: Jan. 26th, 2020
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Stevesn ( Member #58312) posted at 12:40 PM on Wednesday, August 25th, 2021

I have more thoughts but first I’m gonna repost my advice to you from page 2. I think it’s still valid now and I think you should still do and say what I recommended. Then I’ll give updated thoughts in another post.


It’s understandable that it’s going to take you a while to realize that the best approach to rebuilding is NOT to do it while you’re WW is still pining for another man and still holds a place for him in your heart.

If it were me, and yes easy for me to say since I’m not feeling what you’re feeling, but I would keep it simple what I tell her.


"While you still hold this man in your heart, there cannot be a you and me. I need a life partner who sees me and only me as their one true love. You obviously do not feel that way. And until you see him the way I do, as a piece of shit who helped you destroy your marriage and family, then there is no hope that we will be able to rebuild what your affair has destroyed.

I think it’s best we separate for a while. You need to work on you. Perhaps he is what you need in your life and not me. You need to figure that out.

And I need to work myself on healing from this hole that is now in my heart. I can’t do that while you’re here with me thinking of what you had with this other person and how you let him get away.

I wish you well finding what you are looking for. You were that person for me. I’m sorry I couldn’t be the same for you"

Then I urge you to stop talking with her about all this for a while. It doesn’t seem to be doing you any good.

You are right to be feeling what you are feeling. As many here have told you, if she were all in with you, she wouldn’t still be hiding things to protect her memories of the other man.

No she would be standing right beside you saying "i was as much a piece of shit as the AP or even more. Look what I said to him on Snapchat. I hate myself for it and I hate how it hurt you. I’m ready to discuss this as much as you need as often as you need as I hate who I was as much as you do. Probably more. My focus is you not him. He turns my stomach now and I’m prepared to do the work as long as we need to warn your trust back and make you proud of me again"

That is what a truly remorseful WS sounds like.

It’s good she’s being honest. You can thank her for that. But it doesn’t change the fact that she can’t give you 100% while she’s still thinking about him fondly.

So you don’t have to be antagonistic about it. State it as calmly as possible in these tough times. Tell her she needs to figure out what it is She truly wants. And if it’s you, there can be no lingering doubts or fond memories of him. While she’s still protecting those ideas. In her mind or on Snapchat, then she is still protecting him and what they had, not you. She is still protecting him but keeping you from this. Tell her that.

I’m sorry. But I and others here speak the truth. And deep down you know it. Unfortunately you’ll remain in this limbo until you can come to grips with it and do something about it. That’s not unusual but doesn’t change the facts. I hope you can find the strength to simply and honestly communicate these things to her, and then begin the process to move on, separate, until she can honestly tell you he’s no longer has a fondness for him, but has replaced it with disgust.

fBBF. Just before proposing, broke it off after her 2nd confirmed PA in 2 yrs. 9 mo later I met the wonderful woman I have spent the next 30 years with.

posts: 3166   ·   registered: Apr. 17th, 2017
id 8685312
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 p12241342 (original poster New Member #79267) posted at 12:45 PM on Wednesday, August 25th, 2021

I did what you said and I sent her a message saying

This is mad this is! But while you still hold him in your heart and your head, I just don't know if there really can be a you and me (not genuinely, not with love and trust that works both ways) . There is just no way around it, it’s impossible! We are kidding ourselves! I need someone who sees me and only me as their one true love. You obviously do not feel that way about me anymore. But I feel every bit of that about you. And until you see him the way I do, as a piece of shit who helped you destroy our relationship and family, then there is no hope that we will be able to rebuild what you both have destroyed. You were the one and only person for me, really my one true love. I’m sorry I couldn’t be the same for you. It’s good your being honest. But it doesn’t change the fact that you can’t give me 100% while you’re still thinking about him. You need to work out what it is you truly want. If when you work that out it really, genuinely, 100% is me, then there can be no lingering doubts or lingering memories and thoughts of you and him and what you had. You should be working on what you have and not what you had. Are you able to really let him go in your heart and your head? Because while you’re still protecting those memories in your mind or on Snapchat, then you are still protecting him and what you both had, and disrespecting me and lying to me once again which leads to only one person really being hurt and that’s me.

She didn't really say much apart from its you I want

posts: 15   ·   registered: Aug. 11th, 2021
id 8685313
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Stevesn ( Member #58312) posted at 1:29 PM on Wednesday, August 25th, 2021

Then I would tell her her response is insufficient. That it doesn’t feel that she wants you, and you deserve someone who only loves you as you love her, and not two men.

But you need to find your backbone.

I do agree with one thing she say though, but not for the same reason. I would stop talking to her about it. It’s getting you no where.

I’m sorry I know it’s impossibly hard. But you’ve said your piece. Now stop talking. Only discuss kids and their needs and finances. Give one word answers to everything else. Focus on the children. Spend time with them. Make them happy.

If she asks why you’re being cold tell her she’s made it clear that she can’t say I’m the only man for her and do everything necessary to rebuild this relationship with only you in her heart, so you are going to do what you need to do to protect it.

In the meantime tell her you’re doing what she is asking for. You’re stopping the talk every day.

She is asking you to stop talking about it. So I’d respond like this…

It’s clear my words don’t move you. Your minimalist response to what I honestly tried to put into words shows me you’re not all in with me.

I’ve realized you simply want to rug sweep what you did and make me swallow it dry. I see I’m alone in having to heal from this hurt. And I’ll move on accordingly.

I realize now I’ve been trying to pull out of you what I need. But if you’re not feeling it there is nothing I can do to make it happen. So you’ll either drive this recovery or you won’t. I can’t make you do it.

I will never heal if we can’t discuss what happened. But only you can initiate those conversations and have them mean something to me.

So I’m done talking about it. I’m sure you’re relieved.

You’ve never given me the truth in 3 months so why would I explain expect it now. You’ve never shown me emotion that you desperately care how you hurt me.

I don’t need a partner who is only here out of a sense of duty. You broke me and won’t do the things you need to do to help me put things together again.

This is breaking my heart. But I don’t sense it’s breaking yours. "

Ugh I know it’s really hard. I know how paralyzed you must feel. Believe me thousands here have been where you have been.

But that response was so cold.

So I recommend today, if you don’t have one, find your own IC. One that specializes in emotional trauma. You need that support. Sorry I can’t remember if you have it. Seriously get it set up.

The next step will be to call lawyers. Not to file right now but just to understand what it will look like if you do part ways.

Finally remind me, have you talked to the APs ex wife? Not saying you should just yet, but you need ally’s here and she could be one. For now, just let us know if you’ve ever talked to her or not.

My friend, you have a choice. In either case you will need to stop constantly talk to her about it. The first case is approaching it as I described above.

The second is to accept what she is offering. Rug sweeping. Only talking about it during MC once every week or two and swallowing your pride to stay with her in between. Fake happiness. Can you do that? I know I couldn’t but many men are more stoic than me.

I need a true loving partnership where we each have the others back and no one else’s.

So while again I know that it’s impossibly hard, I recommend simply stating what you need, and then do the difficult part of moving on til you see, hear and feel it.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 1:34 PM, Wednesday, August 25th]

fBBF. Just before proposing, broke it off after her 2nd confirmed PA in 2 yrs. 9 mo later I met the wonderful woman I have spent the next 30 years with.

posts: 3166   ·   registered: Apr. 17th, 2017
id 8685317
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 p12241342 (original poster New Member #79267) posted at 1:53 PM on Wednesday, August 25th, 2021

Hi

Thank you for the information and the support

I haven't spoken to the AP ex wife. At the moment I want the least people knowing as possible. Even though this is not my mess I feel ashamed.

The problem is I keep pushing her and saying do you love him and she clearly says no every time. Do i believe her - no i dont

But if she was to suddenly turn around now and say she has no feelings for him or that she doesnt think about him she would be lying so if she says she does im p!ssed if she says she isnt i will call her a lyer.

its int a no win situation

She has since even this morning tried changing or twisting what she has said. Now she says that she only has feelings for how he made her feel and they aren't getting stronger. Then she will say she doesn't think about him or miss him. She said im the one that keeps bringing it ip and its me thats obsessed with him not her.

I took your advice and have just sent her a message saying

Every day this is breaking my heart. But I don’t think it’s breaking yours. You broke me and our family and I cant put it back together on my own. I need someone who only loves me as much I love you, and not two men. How can you have feelings for 2 men at the same time.. Its not right

posts: 15   ·   registered: Aug. 11th, 2021
id 8685321
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Luna10 ( Member #60888) posted at 2:17 PM on Wednesday, August 25th, 2021

I’ll make one more observation and then I’ll let others add their advice too.

Whilst Stevesn’s advice is good, honest and from the heart, you cannot reason with someone to make them love you. I think the more you try and reason with her, the more you’ll lose self respect and she feels more in power.

If I’d be to describe your current stage: she has all the power, she feels like she has to tell you what you want to hear but it’s all words with no substance. I’m not judging, we’ve all been there. Although my husband claimed he stopped loving her when I asked him to pack his bags, I deep down knew it wasn’t true and it’s a different kind of fucking with your reality as you keep asking how can this person switch on his feelings just like that. So we’ve all been there, we know it. You need a power shift. You’ll get it when you realise your worth.

I’d also like to add that your wife is actually telling the truth when it comes to affairs, she wasn’t in love with a person, he could have been anyone, she was in love with the way he made her feel, young, free of responsibilities, fairytale… this isn’t sustainable in real life. Now if your wife is still lying or if she’s just very quick to realise the fantasy wasn’t reality (obviously) that’s not for me to say. I can tell you there is a palpable change when the cheater realises that.

Back to pleading with her to love you and only you… I’d drop it. I’d look for additional actions that she actually truly wants reconciliation. Have you defined what you need?

For me what’s concerning is her desire to shut you up. That can be due to her shame (I doubt it though as she acts like she holds all the cards) or because she’s arrogant and she sees this (wrongly) as an opportunity to assess her power in the marriage and make you dance to her songs going forward.

I would define what I need in your shoes, what needs to happen, what she needs to do in order for you to accept to stay in the marriage. Remember this is about your future life. The only way to feel at peace with staying after infidelity is by having a new much better marriage and improve your life from what it was previously.

[This message edited by Luna10 at 8:20 AM, August 25th (Wednesday)]

BW - 38 at the time of the A
WH - 45
Dday - 27/9/2017

posts: 1366   ·   registered: Oct. 2nd, 2017   ·   location: UK
id 8685322
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jujuchrist ( New Member #78594) posted at 2:24 PM on Wednesday, August 25th, 2021

She said she wouldn't get with him as she would have time alone if I was to leave, but she knows im not going anywhere as i'm playing games.

That point is a big one!

That's how she sees you and this is the problem.

In a relationship, the person who has the power is the one who is the less afraid of losing the relationship.

Your wife knows you're afraid and that you're just bluffing. That's why she has the power.

If you want to get things back on track, you need to stop being afraid of losing the relationship. Break up your relationship, maybe that will save it. Maybe it won't.

But if you don't, in the long run this situation will come up again.

[This message edited by jujuchrist at 2:33 PM, Wednesday, August 25th]

Julien

posts: 40   ·   registered: Apr. 1st, 2021   ·   location: Marseille, France
id 8685325
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The1stWife ( Member #58832) posted at 2:36 PM on Wednesday, August 25th, 2021

If I go I will be alone. Christmas, birthdays, evenings weekends etc.I don't really have any family all my fiends are married so I would be truly on my own and I don't want to cut off my know to spite my face

This is no reason to remain married to a liar and a cheater.

You will not be "alone". You have your children and that takes up weekend time. Maybe not every weekend but you can make it work.

She’s emotionally abusive to you and blaming YOU for being sad that SHE lied and cheated.

If the roles were reversed and you had a friend who was being physically abused by her mate or spouse — would you tell them to stay?

Think about yourself for a minute. You don’t have to accept this marriage (as is) as your life. You deserve better.

And while your cheating wife continues to lie with her words / her actions prove she’s not putting you or your marriage or your family first. She’s being selfish and disrespectful.

Survived two affairs and brink of Divorce. Happily reconciled.

posts: 10531   ·   registered: May. 19th, 2017
id 8685326
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Bigger ( Guide #8354) posted at 2:58 PM on Wednesday, August 25th, 2021

Stevesn is someone I suggest you listen to.
Doesn’t hurt that he’s basically suggesting a comparable approach to what I did.
I want to emphasize a couple of things:

By default any person that has an affair is a liar and cheater. At the very least at the time of affair. If one doesn’t believe that people change then a) anyone that can lie and cheat to have an affair needs to have been a liar and cheater from birth (after all – nobody can change) and b) nobody can reconcile a marriage that includes a liar and a cheater.
Yet we have examples – including your host on this site – of couples that have reconciled.

Now she says that she only has feelings for how he made her feel and they aren't getting stronger. Then she will say she doesn't think about him or miss him. She said im the one that keeps bringing it ip and its me thats obsessed with him not her.


This is actually progress…
She’s realizing it was the buzz of the affair rather than the affair partner. Next step is probably realizing the buzz of the affair – the conscious decision to have an affair – is due to wrong, irrational thinking.

I have a friend that’s a recovering cocaine user. He’s been clean for nearly 2 decades. He has shared that he doesn’t miss using coke, he regrets having used coaine, that his addiction cost him relationships, money and opportunities that he can never completely rebuild or recover. He has absolutely NO wish to snort again. Yet he also says the euphoria he got from the drug is the best high ever.
This does not equate to your WW saying infidelity love was the best, infidelity sex the best or whatever. But even if she moves completely from the infidelity and realizes the danger, the cost and the consequences (like my cocaine-friend) she might have some memories about how the high of the affair was good. Not worth it, never to be repeated, and not something she wants to do.

Finally: Constant daily communications on the subject won’t work. Either get MC or assign certain times and methods to communicate. Spending time each day to write messages, reading her messages, reading the lines and between the lines. Reading what’s not there… You will probably get better results sitting face to face and talking.

"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

posts: 9858   ·   registered: Sep. 29th, 2005
id 8685331
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13YearsR ( Member #58259) posted at 3:07 PM on Wednesday, August 25th, 2021

Im stuck because I have two options. Stay or go.

If I stay im stuck feeling like this day after day which is no life for any of us including my kids. She may even leave anyway if I continue to push her away and not try and put this under the rug

If I go I will be alone. Christmas, birthdays, evenings weekends etc.I don't really have any family all my fiends are married so I would be truly on my own and I don't want to cut off my know to spite my face

Option 3: Stay for now, but start IC immediately. Initiate the 180 and focus on taking excellent care of yourself and the kids. Stop focusing on her and put yourself first. Strength feels amazing and is attractive.

https://survivinginfidelity.com/documents/library/faq/bs/?FAQ=11

https://survivinginfidelity.com/documents/library/articles/discovery/understanding-the-180/

In a relationship, the person who has the power is the one who is the less afraid of losing the relationship.

Your wife knows you're afraid and that you're just bluffing. That's why she has the power.

If you want to get things back on track, you need to stop being afraid of losing the relationship.

This.

...you cannot reason with someone to make them love you. I think the more you try and reason with her, the more you’ll lose self respect and she feels more in power.

You need a power shift. You’ll get it when you realise your worth.

And this.

[This message edited by 13YearsR at 3:31 PM, Wednesday, August 25th]

The truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off. ~ Gloria Steinem

DDay 2004 Successful R and going on 33 years married

posts: 439   ·   registered: Apr. 13th, 2017   ·   location: TX
id 8685333
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Stevesn ( Member #58312) posted at 3:12 PM on Wednesday, August 25th, 2021

I think Luna and I do agree.

I’ve been saying all along, state it once and stop stating it.

Honestly you didn’t really say the same thing that I recommended but I’m glad you’re being honest with her at least.

My point has always been to say to her "you broke my heart, I’m not sure how to repair it, but you loving another man will ensure the pieces can’t be put back together"

And to also say:

"I’m done driving this recovery. If you’re going to try and rug sweep what you have done, you will lose me. Maybe you don’t care. But if you do, your actions will show me. You need to prove to me I am the one in your heart and he is not. If you can’t, or won’t, you will lose me.

Don’t assume because I’ve stopped talking about it that everyone is ok. Assume it’s not. It’s up to you to figure out what you need to do if you still want me as your partner".

Say it once, then STOP TALKING ABOUT IT.

Then work on yourself. Get the IC. Begin working with them. Talk to the lawyer. Find out what D would look like. Expect not to like it, but get yourself acquainted.

I never said to keep asking her to show she loves you and not him.

I said to say it once and then stop discussing it. Start moving on with your life. If she doesn’t follow you, then you will know. And you will then have to decide if life is good enough to stay or if your going to have to take some hard steps to find happiness again.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 3:13 PM, Wednesday, August 25th]

fBBF. Just before proposing, broke it off after her 2nd confirmed PA in 2 yrs. 9 mo later I met the wonderful woman I have spent the next 30 years with.

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Stevesn ( Member #58312) posted at 3:42 PM on Wednesday, August 25th, 2021

Finally: Constant daily communications on the subject won’t work. Either get MC or assign certain times and methods to communicate. Spending time each day to write messages, reading her messages, reading the lines and between the lines. Reading what’s not there… You will probably get better results sitting face to face and talking.

Yes what Bigger says here matches what I am trying to get you to do. Make a statement and then stop making it over and over. If you are in MC, use that time to discuss it.

And his cocaine analogy is brilliant. But she needs to convince you what she is saying matches what bigger is saying.

She can remember that she felt good during it. But what will not work is if she still loves the dealer of those feelings. It’s up to her to convince you of that and you are the one who can decide if she has been successful.

But what’s missing in our discussion here is what is at the core of the whole problem: YOUR HEART IS BROKEN.

And that hurt is like no other. And the question is, does your wife care. And does she want to help put it back together. Does she say anything that leads you to believe one way or another? Telling you to get over it never will help. It’s a telltale sign that she doesn’t have empathy or compassion for what she did.

What we all are trying to say to you is telling her over and over again the same things won’t help. I know, you’re desperately drowning and saying "throw me the life line" and she never does and it just hurts all the more.

Let her show you one way or the other. It’s sad but you have to convince yourself to detach and let her decide if she wants to win you back.

SHE BROKEN HER VOWS. SHE DESTROYED THE FOUNDATION OF THE MARRIAGE.

it takes years to rebuild it. Painstaking one moment at a time.

If you haven’t go read some stories on wayward side here. Mrs Walloped or MidLyfeWife Or LifeDestroyer. I can PM you links if you need help finding them.

All of them started out as your wife has. Indignant. Slowly over time, they changed. Their husbands all responded differently. But it wasn’t until the WW realized what their husbands truly meant to them andDESIRED to give them what they needed, honesty, support and security, that anything changed for them.

Their stories are all different and have ended differently.

But in the end it will be what you can live with. For right now, I really think you should draw your line in the sand, tell her like I said that just because you’ve stopped discussing it she shouldn’t assume everything is ok, then stop discussing it, suffer alone unfortunately, get your own IC to support you, and sit back and watch what she does.

See if she truly puts in the effort. If she can lead the rebuilding. If she can make both grand and small actions to prove she loves you and no one else.

You have no choice but to move on emotionally if she is not doing it for you. My hope is she will realize what she is losing and start doing the things to actually ein you back. But neither you, I, Luna,Bigger or anyone here can make her do that. Only she can decide it. And since we don’t control that, you should stop trying to do so.

I feel your pain. I really do. I wish a magic wand could fix it.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 3:49 PM, Wednesday, August 25th]

fBBF. Just before proposing, broke it off after her 2nd confirmed PA in 2 yrs. 9 mo later I met the wonderful woman I have spent the next 30 years with.

posts: 3166   ·   registered: Apr. 17th, 2017
id 8685340
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Luna10 ( Member #60888) posted at 3:58 PM on Wednesday, August 25th, 2021

I keep saying I’ll step away. 🙂

Say it once, then STOP TALKING ABOUT IT.

Agreed.

But I also had to remind myself just now how I was post dday and I think it’s unfair to expect different from someone who just had their dday. I used to obsessively ask the same question again and again. Honestly? I feel so pathetic when I remember how low I fell. I was so bloody traumatised. And guess what… nobody will pick you back up, I kept waiting for my WH to go “here, have some power back” because he was my husband right? He was meant to have my back. Wrong, you have to take your power back. And never lose it again. In order to do so you need to love yourself, your emotional and mental health more than your WS and your marriage. You need to be able to say “hey, I’m sorry you chose to end our marriage but I’ll be ok”. And that takes time.

Anyway I wanted to add: stop talking about it doesn’t equal rug sweeping. And I don’t think anybody is suggesting that, I want to make sure OP is clear on that.

In fact I/we still talk about the affair when/if needed, we still process residual feelings even now 4 years later. And we stopped talking about the affair every day only about 2 and a half years after dday. Yes, we talked about it every day. We processed what it meant. Both of us. That’s what a willing R partner does.

But talking about it doesn’t mean pleading to change her feelings, pleading to put in the effort etc and that’s what Stevesn and I (and lots others) mean by stop talking about it. Stop pleading.

Your next step should be defining what you need. At a minimum I’d start with IC for both of you. Full disclosure. Full transparency. This is to make you feel safe now. To be clear, you’ll never be able to prevent an affair by checking devices and monitoring location services. But it prevents triggers and ptsd reactions in the early days. Plus your WS’ willingness to be transparent and disclose all info would be sign of her wanting R.

Until she agrees to the above I don’t think there is anything else to talk about.

[This message edited by Luna10 at 10:00 AM, August 25th (Wednesday)]

BW - 38 at the time of the A
WH - 45
Dday - 27/9/2017

posts: 1366   ·   registered: Oct. 2nd, 2017   ·   location: UK
id 8685343
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HardKnocks ( Member #70957) posted at 4:44 PM on Wednesday, August 25th, 2021

Please find an IC who can support you, help you find your self-worth, connect with that and what you really want and need in a relationship, and explore your fears of being "alone."

If this is not firmly established, you will likely remain at the mercy of your WW, willing to accept crumbs and twisting reality in order to cling to a relationship that clearly isn't working for you, and is likely not in your best interest.

Keep posting! Best of luck to you!

BW 30 year marriage.
DDay2 2/20 5 month PA
My Ducks are Aligned and I'm Good to Go! :)

posts: 307   ·   registered: Jul. 7th, 2019
id 8685355
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Organic2003 ( Member #69811) posted at 5:59 PM on Wednesday, August 25th, 2021

Dear (((p12241342)))

The pain you are experiencing is enormous, pain to the bone, we all know the hurt. I wish there was a magic formula to get you out of this pain.

You have had so much good advice and the comparison to cocaine is real. Sex and especially affair sex does produce the same effects on the brain. I am stating that from both reading and some shameful experience. I love the high from cocaine but have not used it for 25 years and would never want to again because of the side affects to my life.

I believe you can R with your WW many different ways and one is to treat this like a drug addiction. It in fact is an addiction to the feel good chemicals the brain produces. The "once a cheater always a cheater" I think said because of this addiction, that can be very hard to break. The ONLY way for her to break her addiction is to go COMPLETELY no contact. No rereading texts, emails, seeing him with children ect. She need help hopefully your help to purge this addiction.

For you to help her there are many different ways from loving and understanding, to dropping her and her suitcase off at his house, both might work to get her to realize if she loves you or her AP (addiction) she will need some IC to understand why she had an affair. But IC is full of idiots practicing.

IMO she has no idea how to navigate this storm she has created, most BS and WW are lost in the destruction and have no idea how to begin rebuilding or if they should rebuild.

I have not seen anyone recommend some reading for you and your wife.

1. "How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair: A Compact Manual for the Unfaithful"
IMO this is the first and a must read for her and you should read it to.

2 "Love Must Be Tough: New Hope for Marriages in Crisis"
This should be read only by you without her knowledge.

3. "Not 'Just Friends': Rebuilding Trust and Recovering Your Sanity After Infidelity"
This is a longer read but applies to your situation well

4. Watch this video on Infidelity Trauma it might help you/her understand your brain.
affairrecovery com/survivors/samuel/infidelity-trauma-interview-specialist-part-1
affairrecovery com/survivors/samuel/infidelity-trauma-interview-specialist-part-2

I believe those links are acceptable by SI and the mods.

(((p12241342))) I feel your pain and it will be with you in some form for the rest of your life. TY WW!!!

With Sympathy,

Organic2003

There is opportunity in EVERYTHING

posts: 138   ·   registered: Feb. 19th, 2019
id 8685383
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ShutterHappy ( Member #64318) posted at 6:36 PM on Wednesday, August 25th, 2021

I think a lot of Betrayed feel like they are losing the love of their life and that the AP "won" and we are in a competition to "win back" the prize, the WS. Is that what you feel?

The betrayal came out of nowhere and you can’t just shot down the feelings you have for your spouse.

Now, I suggest you reframe your thinking. Your WW is not the prize that you can lose to the OM.

She is a married Wife, a mother, who has betrayed you and your children for her own selfish needs. She is not the perfect spouse to "win back"

You can chose to reconcile, but not at any cost, and not because you are afraid to lose her and not because you’re afraid to be alone. If you believe she is not doing the work to be a safe partner and fixes herself, walk away. If you believe she stays with you because "it’s the right thing to do" but still love her AP, walk away.

You can survive and thrive within R if it’s done correctly and for the right reason. You can thrive after a D as well.

Me: BH
Divorced, remarried.
I plan on living forever. So far so good

posts: 1435   ·   registered: Jun. 30th, 2018   ·   location: In my house
id 8685398
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